Thailand’s vaccine shopping list as COVID surges

[rwill]

Everyone is eventually going to be exposed to the virus.  The question is whether you will have been vaccinated beforehand or not.

 

Personally I would take the Sinovac vaccine if it was the only one available to me and get a different one later when available.

[Nanaplaza666]

2 hours ago, ETatBKK said:

NOT the number of vaccine, neither the quality of the vaccine. in the 45 days of roll out, Thailand still far below the 1% of population vaccinated (Apr 15). but mind you the target is 70% that reaches the herd immunity !!  we cannot wait 8 years to vaccinate the target population, or the covid-19 virus is completely gone by then.

 

IMMEDIATELY ramp up the daily roll out rate, otherwise the vaccines may already be EXPIRED in the cool freezer !

The only thing they have in the cool freezer in Thailand is beer . No vaccines anyway . 

[placnx]

2 hours ago, connda said:

Actually most people's perception of a vaccine's efficacy, safety, and general overall worth correlates directly to the degree in which they believe and support their own home country's Geo-political stances. In the West, nations claim that Russia and China are "evil" nations.  This equates to "Chinese and Russian vaccines are "cheap" and "unproven."  I am sure that there are nationalistic Chinese and Russian saying the same thing about Western vaccines.
By the way, every one of the current vaccines being rolled out to the public are "experimental vaccines" that are only being used under "emergency authorization."  Everyone of them is "unproven" until detailed epidemiological analysis of these "live vaccination trials" are analyzed over the next three to five years and the results published in medical periodicals and journals.  It will not be until these vaccines are officially "licensed" that they will be "proven". 
You can line up to take whatever vaccine is available, but you will be required to sign a "consent" form consenting to the use of an experimental vaccine.  If these were proven, licensed vaccines, you would not have to sign a content.  I've never signed a consent to take a flu shot or rabies shot or Hep-B shot or any other shot. They are proven, licensed vaccination.

Even Chinese officials admit that their vaccines fall short:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/china-vaccine-efficacy-not-high-gao/2021/04/11/dafe3ab6-9a8f-11eb-8f0a-3384cf4fb399_story.html

 

Expect the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines to have accelerated licensure.

"Pfizer also expects to file a biologics license application, the application for a full FDA approval, for its vaccine during the first half of 2021, based on additional data from the study that resulted in the vaccine’s initial authorization."

https://www.statnews.com/2021/03/25/pfizer-and-biontech-to-begin-testing-covid-19-vaccine-in-children/

 

[ParkerN]

Just now, Nanaplaza666 said:

The only thing they have in the cool freezer in Thailand is beer . No vaccines anyway . 

Ah yes, the Thai conundrum. Can't wait for something effective or reliable, or even sensible. And yet, no other choice but to accept ineffective, unreliable or non-sensible. Heads they win, tails you lose.

[placnx]

37 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

After rejecting the Covax program, and the generous offer of 2 Million Vaccines from India, how has he got the front to openly ask for International help now over Vaccines.

Because thats what it is, a plea for help.

Help, to get him and his cronies out of the Doo-Doo, which they created themselves through ignorance.

At this point, India needs all the vaccine it can produce for its own people. The horror is only in its early stages, the latest misstep being the Kumbh Mela festival with millions in attendance!

[malibukid]

will Thailand honor vaccine passports.  at this point i am willing to fly home to  get vaccinated in my own country rather than wait for the roll out here.

[ParkerN]

Some people believe that Thanathorn would be a better choice but they fixed him up nicely, didn't they?

 

The average IQ in TL, according to the government, is less than 90 (statistics released by the government), which means that half the population of Thailand has an average IQ of less then 90. I did hear from a Thai newspaper some years ago, that there are pockets of population in the North and North-East, where the average is less than 60.

 

I wonder what the odds are against anyone in Thailand going against the will of the Almighty and demanding that Prayuth be ousted and exiled - given the above. After all, the Almighty is the Almighty - and we know this because he said so.

 

TL is quite a work of art really... when you come to really think about it.

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by ParkerN

[newnative]

    I said in an earlier post it's a slow-motion train wreck.  Here's the slow-motion part--finally, finally and in slow-motion it dawns on him that, hey, maybe Thailand should finally get on the stick and see about getting some vaccines.  Just a half a year or so too late, bud.  

[gearbox]

5 hours ago, John Drake said:

Well, we all better hope he finds vaccines somewhere.

More vaccines are coming to the market, and the existing manufacturers are ramping up their volumes a lot. Maybe by the end of the year there could be some surplus of vaccines, who knows. Also next year a booster shot may be required for the people who have vaccinated this year,  that's billions of shots.

[moogradod]

Any idea why my favored vaccine - MODERNA - is not on the list ? Any chance to import it via a private hospital ? Against payment of course, even if this endeavour would cost quite a bit I suppose.

[gearbox]

4 hours ago, jackdd said:

I guess you missed the news where China themself said that their vaccine has a low efficacy: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/11/china-considers-mixing-covid-vaccines-to-give-greater-protection

No they didn't say that...

 

From the quoted article - "Gao <deleted>, who said Chinese vaccines “don’t have very high protection rates”"

 

"don't have very high" is not equal to "low".  It may be average, or better than average, or lower than average etc.

Then some of the Western press newspapers turned that quote to "low efficacy", and that's how it started to propagate. Goebbels work.

Sad really as the world at the moment needs all of the working vaccines, in order to get over this pandemic mess.

[gearbox]

10 minutes ago, moogradod said:

Any idea why my favored vaccine - MODERNA - is not on the list ? Any chance to import it via a private hospital ? Against payment of course, even if this endeavour would cost quite a bit I suppose.

Private hospitals are not like governments, they need to turn a profit. If a hospital has a distribution chain for Pfizer/Biontech they may offer Moderna too, as the investment for cold storage is already there. If they don't have it, they need to estimate whether they would have enough people willing to take it, in order to cover the cost and make some money.

It may be good idea to register interest somewhere (hospital maybe?), if there are enough takers they may import it, if they find something on the market at all.

[Flying Saucage]

7 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

This pandemic has exposed the national characteristic of being unable to plan into the future or analyse and anticipate future outcomes. 

 

Thailand has been fumbling along hoping the pandemic would just go away and all the tourists would come back. 

 

Hm....I think the pandemic has exposed the nation's leaders characteristic of being able to plan the future very well in the way how to fill their pockets in the best way, by granting the supply of the vaccine to Thailand to a monopoly.

 

But thanks to this third wave, now their pants are on fire.

 

Funny how they now praise their international connections not only to Russia but also to the West, when it is about sourcing the vaccs. Relations they have trampled with their generals feet during the last 7 years.

 

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, gearbox said:

No they didn't say that...

 

From the quoted article - "Gao <deleted>, who said Chinese vaccines “don’t have very high protection rates”"

 

"don't have very high" is not equal to "low".  It may be average, or better than average, or lower than average etc.

Then some of the Western press newspapers turned that quote to "low efficacy", and that's how it started to propagate. Goebbels work.

Sad really as the world at the moment needs all of the working vaccines, in order to get over this pandemic mess.

Its safe to say that in real world data it is the lowest of all others. With that in mind I'm not saying its useless but its obviously better to shoot for another brand when purchasing vaccines.

 

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/04/15/in-clinical-and-real-world-trials-chinas-sinovac-underperforms?

 

 

[Dogmatix]

9 hours ago, petermik said:

Buying cheap unproven vaccines is not a good idea......

 

Don't worry.  They are no longer cheap once they arrive in Thailand and the commissions have been added on.

[Dogmatix]

16 minutes ago, gearbox said:

Private hospitals are not like governments, they need to turn a profit. If a hospital has a distribution chain for Pfizer/Biontech they may offer Moderna too, as the investment for cold storage is already there. If they don't have it, they need to estimate whether they would have enough people willing to take it, in order to cover the cost and make some money.

It may be good idea to register interest somewhere (hospital maybe?), if there are enough takers they may import it, if they find something on the market at all.

 

None of the vaccine manufacturers will sell to private companies, only to governments.  So the Thai government has to get involved and take a cut on the imports as well as the under the table fee for Thai FDA approval.

[gearbox]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Its safe to say that in real world data it is the lowest of all others. With that in mind I'm not saying its useless but its obviously better to shoot for another brand when purchasing vaccines.

 

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/04/15/in-clinical-and-real-world-trials-chinas-sinovac-underperforms?

 

 

This is from the article you quoted:

 

"Despite the apparently poor results in stopping infections, the Sinovac vaccine, like its competitors, appears to offer remarkably good protection against severe disease and death."

 

Same article quotes that more than 120 million jabs were already sold outside China, but I'm yet to see any government ditching it. On the contrary, the Chilean government says it made the "right bet" with it.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/chinas-sinovac-covid-19-vaccine-67-effective-preventing-symptomatic-infection-2021-04-16/

 

 

And the Thai government won't be walking in a vaccine supermarket with full shelves,  so they can just pick and choose. I don't think they'll be able to purchase any vaccines in the short term.

My preferred vaccine is Pfizer, I'm heading to Europe mid year and will get the shots there.

[mfd101]

In sum, don't expect to get vaccinated in Thailand before 2022 at the earliest.

[gearbox]

4 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

 

Don't worry.  They are no longer cheap once they arrive in Thailand and the commissions have been added on.

Indeed...look at the cost of the PCR tests.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, gearbox said:

This is from the article you quoted:

 

"Despite the apparently poor results in stopping infections, the Sinovac vaccine, like its competitors, appears to offer remarkably good protection against severe disease and death."

 

Same article quotes that more than 120 million jabs were already sold outside China, but I'm yet to see any government ditching it.

Hong Kong is fighting against it and even want to give their Sinovac to poorer countries however they have little choice to do that with their government. It does prevent deaths by 80% (real world stats) however, not as good as the  others but still fairly high.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, daveAustin said:

If left alone, Thanathorn would have done big things for Thailand — bright, decent, business brain, bilingual, etc. But between this bunch or Thaksin, well you must have an agenda or half a brain if you fancy the status quo (not the band, altho even they with their elevator ‘music’ couldn’t do a worse job).  

At least Thaksin had the opportunity to prove how good (or not) he was.

 

If there was the option between the current lot and Thaksin, he would win hands down in a free and fair election. This is one reason why he is the current governments boogeyman.

 

Thanathorn is as yet unproven in country politics. In a 3 way race between the current government in a free and fair election I believe he would come a very strong second behind Thaksin.

 

This however is all pie in the sky, as the current lot cannot afford to lose, and if they did they would attempt to take the same route as Myanmar did this year.

Edited April 18, 2021 by billd766
Bad spelling

[billd766]

2 hours ago, ParkerN said:

Ah yes, the Thai conundrum. Can't wait for something effective or reliable, or even sensible. And yet, no other choice but to accept ineffective, unreliable or non-sensible. Heads they win, tails you lose.

And they use a double headed coin.

[Surelynot]

Just now, billd766 said:

And they use a double headed coin.

No best of three then?

[Letseng]

4 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Self protection, keep your distance from non-mask wearing people... 1st rule of staying healthy.

Wear N95 or FFP2.

[connda]

6 hours ago, jackdd said:

I guess you missed the news where China themself said that their vaccine has a low efficacy: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/11/china-considers-mixing-covid-vaccines-to-give-greater-protection

If you are a Westerner who hates Russians and Chinese, then you will find the weakness in the vaccine narrative.  Had China produced the AZ vaccine, you'd be pointing out blood clots instead of efficacy.  If the UK or US produced the Sinovac vaccine you'd be lauding it regardless of its efficacy. 
I gave up "patriotic nationalism" after 8 years in the military.  That stint in the military taught me how the world works.  I've been a student o Geo-politics and international affair ever since.  And I watch people's behavior.  The majority of people on this planet are rather easy to read and tend to function based on habit and conditioning.  So this 'vaccine bashing' isn't a surprise.

[MrJ2U]

A really big problem is relying on one manufacturer of the Astrazeneca vaccine.  One problem or shutdown there up <deleted> creek.  Why not spread it out to a few factories?

 

Also Astrazeneca is definitely losing its appeal with Switzerland actually giving its supply away and using Moderna and Pfizer instead.

 

Everyone knows why but there afraid of 15 years in prison for speaking the truth.

[Boomer6969]

Pointless thread since we may not discuss the true cause of the vaccine fiasco.

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, Boomer6969 said:

Pointless thread since we may not discuss the true cause of the vaccine fiasco.

True and important point. We are self censoring knowing the consequences of any criticism directed to the factory in question, aside from a few general remarks we have to just take it at face value, what makes that ironic is that they may actually be doing very well but we just don't know.

[tingtong]

8 hours ago, John Drake said:

Well, we all better hope he finds vaccines somewhere.

 

He will for the right price. 

Waiting lists can be jumped.

Why EU on average also behind, haggled too long.

Even EU produced vaccines were sold other higher bidders.

Money talks.

Everywhere.

 

[wasabi]

In many situations even finagling their way out of WWII Thailand has been able to fake it til they make it while saying yes and no at the same time. But the virus is not one for shadow diplomacy. They can fiddle with the statistics but the science does not care about saving face. I still love Thailand but have no faith they will deliver effective vaccines anytime soon. It's odd because I have received great healthcare here many times so the blame is not with hospitals or medical staff. It's solely with certain pompous officials standing in the way of what should've been simple due to their pride and incompetence. Unless something miraculous happens here on the Covid front in the next few weeks I will be returning to the USA to get vaccinated. If that requires me staying there for a year before I can return with my vaccine passport back into Thailand that's fine.