Thai teacher's SHOCK in Oz! Explains his experiences down under are not a bit like Thai schools!

[John Drake]

31 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Kinda summarizes the educational, social, and cultural differences between Australia ("the West") and Thailand ("Asia"), and why Asia, and particularly China, is eating the West's lunch economically, socially, and culturally.

 

I taught PRC graduate students in a Thai university. They were not forced to dress and behave in the same formal way as the Thais. Nonetheless, they displayed a professional attitude that did come from dressing appropriately, being on time, paying attention, doing work on time, and contributing to classroom discussions. If I compare this to my American graduate students, who came into class still eating, wearing flip flops, shorts, failing to read assignments, and leaving early because of "emergencies," I would say I prefer both the Thai and Chinese students. Chinese students in particular remind me in their behavior of Americans in the 1970s and 1980s. They seriously want to learn. If Americans (and apparently Australians) believe that this much informality leads to anything but laxness, they are in for a terrible awakening.

[apetryxx]

2 hours ago, JingerBen said:

Reference: U.S. inner city schools which are a disaster thanks to the teachers union. Charter and private schools are first rate but public schools under the thumb of the NEA are a repulsive mess. Just look at California these days with public school teachers refusing to go to work (citing Covid nonsense) while getting a full salary and private institutions are running full bore with no health problems. Disgusting!

[John Drake]

1 minute ago, apetryxx said:

Reference: U.S. inner city schools which are a disaster thanks to the teachers union. Charter and private schools are first rate but public schools under the thumb of the NEA are a repulsive mess. Just look at California these days with public school teachers refusing to go to work (citing Covid nonsense) while getting a full salary and private institutions are running full bore with no health problems. Disgusting!

 

Fortunately, here, the topic compares Thai and Australian schools, both of whom seem to be superior to the educational wasteland in the US. 

[grubman]

Well that a nice surprise to see my old school involved in a Thai teacher exchange, even when i was a student at St Pat's back in the day the teacher were just a casual as mentioned in this article and by the looks for the pictures the schools has not been upgraded since i was a student in the early 80's, but great to see the old school coming up on Thai Visa. brings back old memories that have long been forgotten

[RubbaJohnny]

The schools reflect the communities.The kids who attended Merewether schools in NSW are more individualist than those who went to Minburi tho no happier/succesful.

 

Murwillumbah  under Mount Warning the first place in OZ to see teh sunrise is a lovely little NSW place near Queensland border, a welcoming friendly riverside place where I met a lovely Thai lady, another mount warning, Along the banks of the Tweed.

 

A wonderful art gallery and some famous scams.

 

After Bellingen and Freo one of my must visit places when we are free to roam again.It is well worth the hike up the famous Mountain.

Edited April 21, 2021 by RubbaJohnny

[dinsdale]

2 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I was a teacher trainer back in the day and saw many bright young teachers like this; full of wonder and awe.

 

However...

 

This young man will return from Oz full of new ideas and methods, but will then run into the old guard at the school; the ones that have been there forever and that are resistant to change. Further, he will get undermined by those same elderly teachers with the Principal and other Admin people at the school. Finally, he will get shunned a bit because he is trying to introduce 'foreign' ideas.

 

The young teacher will either be told to 'shut up' and do so OR he will embark on a very long journey to amass certificates and seniority in order to implement some of the new things that he learned; that will take a loooooong time. Eventually, that young teacher will have amassed enough clout to finally change things, but by then he will be one of the 'old guard' fearful of the 'new upstarts' and their 'newfangled ideas'.

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

Ad nauseam.

 

If you want to see change in the Thai education system, and everyone should, you need drastic, radical action. 

 

Step one: enter the Bangkok Ministry of Education building and fire 80% of the people working there. Literally. They are the ones who created the current monstrosity and they are the ones who will sabotage any chance of reform.

 

Step two: enter the Provincial Ministry of education building(s) and fire 75% of the people working there.

 

Step three; enter every school in the Kingdom and inform the Principal that if 50% of his senior students don't pass the nation-wide tests, he will be fired.

 

Step four: give the Principal some autonomy to hire/fire and/or discipline staff

 

Step Five: if it doesn't work the first year, do it again for a second, third, and fourth year.

 

Drastic? Yup. Revolutionary? Yup. Serious? Yup. Needed? Yup.

 

But, I ain't holding my breath...

 

 

Step six: Fail useless, lazy students who don't give a .....

[Benmart]

3 hours ago, JingerBen said:

An experience teaching at an inner-city school in the US would have made SHOCK in Oz! look like a Sunday school picnic.

From experience, inner city schools in the USA are as varied as the hairs on your head. Some grey, some not. Some not providing adequate coverage and some abundantly lush in scope. Some wild and untamed and some well managed and disciplined. Run a comb through your hair. Same with the schools you've never seen. There is bound to be a few dead ones that cling to the tines.

[tandor]

...hardly any Australians i know speaks the slang you printed.

Australians are an educated society you know!

They certainly don't speak to children like this.

As far as dress codes go, their attire is obviously suited to the temperature and environment

in which they live and teach..i recall quite clearly teachers wearing suits and very smart clothes, along with their gowns, and as a child we lined up in the quadrangle and raised the flag and sang the national anthem..and..and ..and.

Such a pity a lot of our formality has disappeared along with school uniforms in some states public schools.

Try getting another exchange students' feedback as this one is quite pathetic and is not a true cross-section of Australian schools. 

[crickets]

Class numbers make most of the difference.

[onebir]

2 hours ago, Smithson said:

https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/principal-accused-of-sex-with-student-pulls-gun-at-songkhla-school-assembly-video/

"Principal awarded full marks for doubling down"

[CM Dad]

3 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Article was clearly biased against Thai schools. 

 

All good schools on the uk the teachers dress smartly with shirt and ties.  Kids wear uniforms so they all look smart and the same do kids don't bully each other for having different clothes. 

 

We always lined up in the playground before going into our classrooms. It teaches children discipline. 

 

We also has not ing assembly and sang songs as well as got the news or info from the headmaster. 

 

Nothing wrong with that.

 

I would have hated going to a school where the teachers dressed in scruffy clothes, kids looked a mess and got bullied for not wearing the expensive trainers, and where it was disorganised and unruly.  That is not a good settled or calming environment to learn.

 

Look as some of the American schools with armed security guards and metal detectors.  

 

 

Yes, you are correct about the UK system.  However, you failed to mention that many of the issues regarding Thai schools have been directly copied from the British system.  If you are a product of that archaic system then perhaps that explains your poorly written comment.

[kwilco]

This article shows how lacking the Thai education system is. Thailand boasts free eduction to more students than anywhere else in the region, yet what they get is very, very poor....and is archaic, it is embarrassing.

 

Australia actually doesn't have a star quality education system, yet at least it attempts to use modern educational theory and practices.

 

There is a problem in every country in the world that people too many people seem to think they are "experts" in education just because they went to school.

 

The Thai system is ineffective and rotten from the bottom up to the very top. Unfortunately after 20 years in Thai education you begin to realise that any attempt to change is met with typical Thai hardline resistance baulking and eventually you'll find people are trying to get rid of you. Yet thanks to Thailands endemic corruption, the people in high ranking positions know diddly about education.

[thailand49]

This is really no surprise to anyone since anyone who is brave enough to speak against their teaching program every outside expert has said so much!  But the old guards have a reason for not making the changes but as the memorization continue with zero critical thinking in the government schools it will continue for a reason.  If they don't know they can't make a fuzz can they?

 

This teacher must have been watching too much Youtube or something I've never in 15 plus years seen a teacher from a Government school come in a suit and tie!

 

This is something they should do for all of their government get them out of the country and learn instead of T.I.T.  for driving, road design, City planning there is a long list but regardless still a good place to live.????

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, CM Dad said:

Yes, you are correct about the UK system.  However, you failed to mention that many of the issues regarding Thai schools have been directly copied from the British system.  If you are a product of that archaic system then perhaps that explains your poorly written comment.

There are poor schools in the UK but there are also some excellent ones mainly outside of inner cities, I would imagine thats the same in the US and most places.

 

However I think what counts is objective views and a list of criteria that actually measures how well a nation is doing. In that sense Thailand has a long long way to go.

 

2020 Worlds Best Education Systems

 

1. India
2. United States
3. United Kingdom
4. Australia
5. Brazil
6. Russia
7. Canada
8. Singapore
9. Belgium
10. Ireland
11. China
12. South Korea
13. Spain
14. Japan
15. Germany
16. Switzerland
17. Sweden
18. Finland
19. Denmark
20. New Zealand

 

https://worldtop20.org/worldbesteducationsystem

 

https://worldtop20.org/global-education-report   Criteria used

[kwilco]

3 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

All good schools on the uk the teachers dress smartly with shirt and ties. 

Completely false premise. 

The UK system has a ghastly mix of schools which means that the main system has never been put into full operation. 

 

[Chongalulu]

2 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Kinda summarizes the educational, social, and cultural differences between Australia ("the West") and Thailand ("Asia"), and why Asia, and particularly China, is eating the West's lunch economically, socially, and culturally.

'Asia' is not a uniformly better performing educational establishment. While Singapore,Hong Kong,Korea are in the top strata ,Thailand in particular is languishing near the very bottom of the PISA EDUCATIONAL TABLES. 

You might also want to consider that the truly groundbreaking and inspirational inventions all come from the free thinking West

[Mavideol]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

Thailand prides itself on being in the class more hours than other nations but the quality is lacking.

 

More is in fact less and students are bored and under achieving, say critics. 

more is not always better but here in Thailand they prefer quantity over quality..... reminds me one of my friends having a problem with his then wife, she told him she preferred quality over size 555

[kwilco]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

There are poor schools in the UK but there are also some excellent ones mainly outside of inner cities, I would imagine thats the same in the US and most places.

 

However I think what counts is objective views and a list of criteria that actually measures how well a nation is doing. In that sense Thailand has a long long way to go.

 

2020 Worlds Best Education Systems

 

1. India
2. United States
3. United Kingdom
4. Australia
5. Brazil
6. Russia
7. Canada
8. Singapore
9. Belgium
10. Ireland
11. China
12. South Korea
13. Spain
14. Japan
15. Germany
16. Switzerland
17. Sweden
18. Finland
19. Denmark
20. New Zealand

 

https://worldtop20.org/worldbesteducationsystem

 

https://worldtop20.org/global-education-report   Criteria used

 

unfortunately lists like this - despite being "lists" are totally subjective - for instance the US system is absolutely dreadful when you look at the parochial parameters of the system and the people it churns out.

[LukKrueng]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Don't teachers have to guard the school at night?", asked the Thai mindful of all the extra duties in Thai schools

That's where I stopped reading. Total B<deleted>

[KhaoYai]

4 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Good that Thai teachers get to experience other idea and approaches in other countries.

Yes but do they go back to Thailand and comment on how much better the education system is in other countries or do they say how wrong foreign schools are? I think the latter is most likely.  It would be nice to think that something could actually be learned by these exchange trips but I suspect that's just fantasy.

 

I remember pointing out some glaring mistakes in a Thai text book on English - clearly not written by a native English speaker, only to be told that I was wrong, the book was written by an eminent Thai professor. Clearly being a native English speaker counted for nothing - the Thai way is always correct!

 

Hence the excellent standard of English exhibited by Thai school children ????.

[kwilco]

2 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

'Asia' is not a uniformly better performing educational establishment. While Singapore,Hong Kong,Korea are in the top strata ,Thailand in particular is languishing near the very bottom of the PISA EDUCATIONAL TABLES. 

You might also want to consider that the truly groundbreaking and inspirational inventions all come from the free thinking West

Singapore is a classic example of how education hs gone wrong.....(Japan and Korea too have acknowledged this)

The problem is that hot-housing on perceived useful topics has lead to a population that are social inept and inflexible when it comes to changing jobs or careers. 

You end up with a population that knows lots but understands nothing.

 

In the past they hoed authority to authoritarian governments who consider they know best - and this has led to their current difficulties.

the UK is just STARTING on this road with ever more dictatorial governments

 

 

[Pattaya Spotter]

3 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

'Asia' is not a uniformly better performing educational establishment. While Singapore,Hong Kong,Korea are in the top strata ,Thailand in particular is languishing near the very bottom of the PISA EDUCATIONAL TABLES. 

You might also want to consider that the truly groundbreaking and inspirational inventions all come from the free thinking West

Of course Thailand is middling to worse as an Asian nation in many metrics...but like Australia, it is a minnow on it's "team." and doesn't count for much. The leader and pacesetter for the Asian squad is China. Granted the "free spirit" of the West does birth ground breaking innovation and technology (not much from Oz however) but most of it is commercialized at scale by China and made in China. Keep in mind, also, that the biggest share of most tech company's sales and profits now come from the Chinese market...not Europe or North America.

[Smithson]

19 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Yes but do they go back to Thailand and comment on how much better the education system is in other countries or do they say how wrong foreign schools are? I think the latter is most likely.  It would be nice to think that something could actually be learned by these exchange trips but I suspect that's just fantasy.

 

I remember pointing out some glaring mistakes in a Thai text book on English - clearly not written by a native English speaker, only to be told that I was wrong, the book was written by an eminent Thai professor. Clearly being a native English speaker counted for nothing - the Thai way is always correct!

 

Hence the excellent standard of English exhibited by Thai school children ????.

I think it's the former, they do realize how bad it is, but are sensitive to criticism. Young people in particular are aware of the failings of the education system.

[KhaoYai]

1 minute ago, EricTh said:

I've seen many native English speakers who just can't teach English to second language learners. Knowing English isn't the same as knowing how to teach a language to non-native speakers.

I don't doubt you are correct - I'm not a teacher. However, those I talk to have told me of the difficulties they have with the regime in Thai schools - like not failing pupils who have clearly failed.

[EricTh]

2 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I don't doubt you are correct - I'm not a teacher. However, those I talk to have told me of the difficulties they have with the regime in Thai schools - like not failing pupils who have clearly failed.

 

That's new to me. Why would the school administration not allow the teacher to fail some of the students? 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by EricTh

[KhaoYai]

4 minutes ago, EricTh said:

It's the same with many of the Thai language teachers I met, they just can't teach to second language learners. They think that they are teaching native Thai students.

Admittedly I haven't met a lot but those I have met, were not actually teachers. I doubt Thailand is prepared to pay the salary a good teacher demands.

 

A few years ago I was talking to a group of teachers at Suvarnabhumi who were heading to Hong Kong, the told me the salary there was 10x the Thai salary.

 

Peanuts and Monkeys come to mind.

[KhaoYai]

7 minutes ago, EricTh said:

That's new to me. Why would the school administration not allow the teacher to fail some of the students? 

Face.

 

I'm surprised its new to you - I've seen it mentioned on ThaiVisa before - I thought it was well known?

 

I know it to be correct in at least one school. I know an English guy who teaches in Pak Chong. He failed some students and was hauled in front of his boss and told to change the marks.

Edited April 21, 2021 by KhaoYai

[CharlieH]

Its not about the subject matter, its the attitude and aproach in general.

 

Like so many things here its rooted in the past run by older people who wont listen as "this is the way its done" and so the batton is passed along with envelopes where required.

Whilst the old guard remain it wont change, it wont be allowed to change. I have seen ths resistance first hand and a complete refusal to entertain anything remotely new.

 

[Paul DS]

There are good and bad areas in Thailand schools, including many dedicated teachers.

 

Unfortunately thats the good areas finished, the bad areas are endless!

[EricTh]

6 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Face.

 

I'm surprised its new to you - I've seen it mentioned on ThaiVisa before - I though it was well known?

 

I know it to be correct in at least one school. I know an English guy who teaches in Pak Chong. He failed some students and was hauled in front of his boss and told to change the marks.

 

I didn't know all these. I applied for an English teacher post before in Thailand but they didn't hire me because I didn't have any teaching experience.

 

So no students are allowed to fail in Thai schools?

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by EricTh