You Have to Go Somewhere. How Will You Go?

[dddave]

Taxi or Grab?  Small enclosed space with driver. Recirculated air unless you open window.

 

BTS/MRT?  Ventilates when doors are open but recirculated air when underway. Lots of people, also handholds others have recently used.

 

City Bus?  AC buses, re-circulated air, sometimes crowded.  Older buses: open windows so lots of ventilation, usually not too crowded, Slow and hot.

 

Your own car.  Lucky you.

 

 

[Crossy]

Zoom!! (or Teams or Google Meet or whatever happens to be flavour of the month)

 

If I absolutely HAVE to be physically somewhere I'll drive myself.

[Johnny Mac]

Lucky to have a car??

[richard_smith237]

Car / Motorbike. 

 

Outside of this crisis I would never want to live anywhere without my own transport. Covid-19 simply elevates the reasons why having ones own transport is just ‘better’..

 

I only ever used to take Taxi’s at night when I was drinking....  If with my Wife and Son we would always take the car anyway unless heading across town to somewhere on the the sky-train line in which case we’d park up at a convenient station (i.e. Gateway Ekammai) and take the sky train to Siam etc.

 

I’ve taken the car pretty much everywhere. I’ve used the motorbike a lot less for a combination of reasons (its so hot, its rained a lot, the traffic is lighter, son is home schooling so the car is not needed for the school run). 

 

 

 

I believe the greatest risk of transmission is 'touching stuff’ - i.e. touching the door handles and surfaces at shopping malls, touching the escalator, touching the lift buttons, touching the door handles and seats in a taxi etc etc.... even in a taxi I don’t think there is a risk if the taxi driver is breathing normally and not coughing everywhere....  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kiujunn]

Cabb (London-style taxis) with both windows open (you must ask  the driver to let you open the windows,  once he let you do it you press the buttons yourself)

 

They have a partition between driver and passenger. It's quite good. 

 

Drivers actually do wear a mask. 

 

Pay contactless by scanning through the plexiglass partition.

 

Clean your hands afterwards (should do this anyway).

 

 

Alternative in the off-hours: BTS with N95 mask. Everybody except the occasional dirty farang is wearing a mask. 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Kiujunn

[Emdog]

Seems this is one of the rare times that taking a motorcycle taxi is not an insane option...

[internationalism]

own moto or even bicycle (good carbon mask necessary, take exchange of clothing)

[Jingthing]

7 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Car / Motorbike. 

 

Outside of this crisis I would never want to live anywhere without my own transport. Covid-19 simply elevates the reasons why having ones own transport is just ‘better’..

 

I only ever used to take Taxi’s at night when I was drinking....  If with my Wife and Son we would always take the car anyway unless heading across town to somewhere on the the sky-train line in which case we’d park up at a convenient station (i.e. Gateway Ekammai) and take the sky train to Siam etc.

 

I’ve taken the car pretty much everywhere. I’ve used the motorbike a lot less for a combination of reasons (its so hot, its rained a lot, the traffic is lighter, son is home schooling so the car is not needed for the school run). 

 

 

 

I believe the greatest risk of transmission is 'touching stuff’ - i.e. touching the door handles and surfaces at shopping malls, touching the escalator, touching the lift buttons, touching the door handles and seats in a taxi etc etc.... even in a taxi I don’t think there is a risk if the taxi driver is breathing normally and not coughing everywhere....  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No.

Your views are dated.

Airborne is the most common way people get infected.

Including people just breathing or talking. No need for coughing or shouting.

The virus can stay in the air a long time.

Infection via touching surfaces is not a big problem.

People have been disinfecting surfaces way too much.

Of course its still a good idea to wash your hands and not touch your face. 

Soap and water is superior to chemicals.

In a taxi open windows would be good  but of course everyone needs to be masked. 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Jingthing

[Maha Sarakham]

We just drive ourselves, public transportation doesn't seem like the best way to go during a pandemic.

[richard_smith237]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No.

Your views are dated.

Airborne is the most common way people get infected.

Including people just breathing or talking. No need for coughing or shouting.

The virus can stay in the air a long time.

Infection via touching surfaces is not a big problem.

People have been disinfecting surfaces way too much.

Of course its still a good idea to wash your hands and not touch your face. 

Soap and water is superior to chemicals.

In a taxi open windows would be good  but of course everyone needs to be masked. 

 

 

Airborne transmission can occur when people are in close proximity... i.e. <1 meter and in inadequately ventilated areas, the virus can spread from an infected person’s mouth or nose in small liquid particles when they cough, sneeze, speak, sing or breathe heavily - Not so much when a person just breathes or talks.

 

When people are exercising social distancing (>2m) the risk of aerosol transmission is reduced and occurs under ‘certain conditions’ i.e. directly downwind of a person coughing, sneezing, breathing heavily etc. 

 

The virus also commonly spreads when people touch and contaminate surfaces. 

i.e. someone takes off their face-mask, which is contaminated... touch the door knob / handle, touch the taxi door handle, hold the escalator etc etc... 

 

 

 

Basically, in your Baht Bus you are shafted, have you been sanitising your 10 baht coins ? has the Songthew driving been sanitising his change ?

 

 

Touch remains a major source of transmission - this has always been the case with viruses and continues to be so, even with SARS-CoV-2 of different variants.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Airborne transmission can occur when people are in close proximity... i.e. <1 meter and in inadequately ventilated areas, the virus can spread from an infected person’s mouth or nose in small liquid particles when they cough, sneeze, speak, sing or breathe heavily - Not so much when a person just breathes or talks.

 

When people are exercising social distancing (>2m) the risk of aerosol transmission is reduced and occurs under ‘certain conditions’ i.e. directly downwind of a person coughing, sneezing, breathing heavily etc. 

 

The virus also commonly spreads when people touch and contaminate surfaces. 

i.e. someone takes off their face-mask, which is contaminated... touch the door knob / handle, touch the taxi door handle, hold the escalator etc etc... 

 

 

 

Basically, in your Baht Bus you are shafted, have you been sanitising your 10 baht coins ? has the Songthew driving been sanitising his change ?

 

 

Touch remains a major source of transmission - this has always been the case with viruses and continues to be so, even with SARS-CoV-2 of different variants.

 

 

 

 

 

You're not keeping up with new findings and yet you keep posting OUTDATED information. Do you think that is helpful?

CDC says COVID-19 not caught easily from surfaces and 40% of transmission occurs before people feel sick - CBS News

Quote

CDC says COVID-19 not caught easily from surfaces and 40% of transmission occurs before people feel sick

 

[Jingthing]

My answer to the question is that I try to avoid going anywhere further than walking distance. But sometimes I need to as I don't have a vehicle. So in those cases I take an open air Pattaya baht bus and hope it isn't crowded and that people are wearing masks (most usually are). If i needed a car I would get one from an app. I think the theme here is limiting your risk. Avoiding such transport as much as possible. It's a like a lot of things. Eating at restaurants is a risk. You take off your mask to eat. So to limit that risk, avoid restaurants entirely, or if not, limit their use, sit outside when possible, mask off only when eating, don't spend an overlong time there, go off hours when there are fewer people, etc. You can't really achieve NO risk, but you can lower risks in many ways.

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

You're not keeping up with new findings and yet you keep posting OUTDATED information. Do you think that is helpful?

CDC says COVID-19 not caught easily surfaces and 40% of transmission occurs before people feel sick - CBS News

 

 

 

Remember when the WHO and CDC had conflicting advice regarding the wearing of face masks?

 

Now the CDC says Covid-19 is not caught easily from surfaces...  I think that information is potentially misleading  - people still need to remain vigilant about what they touch and hand washing. 

 

 

IF transmission can occur when someone sneezes and someone else breathes in that ‘contaminated’ aerosol, it's perfectly logical that when that aerosol falls down on to a surface and someone touches that surface there is a subsequent risk of hand to mouth transmission. 

 

The survival of the virus on different surface is variable - but when I go anywhere in public I’m going to wash my hands whenever I have the opportunity and use hand sanitiser regularly - thats just common sense. 

 

 

I don’t think you are suggesting that people can’t catch the virus from surfaces, but in your haste to argue with me that risk is getting lost in the noise. Surfaces are still a transmission risk and I don’t believe them to be as low as what the CDC is implying - just think of an Covid-19 positive person coughing into their hand, then holding the grab handle on the BTS or in a Baht Bus, seconds later someone else touches that handle.

 

 

The virus can be transmitted by touch - thus: When using taxi, touching door knobs, escalators etc transmission can and does occur if someone is careless not to wash their hands before touching their face (mouth and eyes). 

 

 

Of course, aerosol transmission occurs if someone is not wearing a mask, but social distancing is also effective and if a positive person is sat 5 meters away and not coughing or sneezing up into the air then transmission under normal breathing and speaking conditions is unlikely. 

 

The CDC website uses the figure of 6ft and suggests that people who are physically near (within 6 feet) of a person with COVID-19 or have direct contact with that person are at greatest risk of infection.

 

The CDC website quotes: COVID-19 most commonly spreads during close contact. Infections occur mainly through exposure to respiratory droplets when a person is in close contact with someone who has COVID-19.

 

The CDC website also quotes: COVID-19 can sometimes be spread by airborne transmission.

There is evidence that under certain conditions, people with COVID-19 seem to have infected others who were more than 6 feet away. These transmissions occurred within enclosed spaces that had inadequate ventilation. Sometimes the infected person was breathing heavily, for example while singing or exercising (and of course, coughing or sneezing although that is not quoted, but common sense can be applied). 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Why Me]

Assume new infections a day are (rounding up) 3,000 consistently,  C-19 incubation period 14 days. This means there's 3,000 x 14 = 42,000 currently infective persons in Thailand. Let's round this up to 50,000. Thailand population is 70,000,000 rounded up to include expats.

 

Which means the chance of a random person in this country being infective = 50,000/70,000,000 = 0.00071... That is about 7 in 10,000 or about 1 in 1,500 people are infective.

 

Sure the cab you're in has carried several passengers before you. Let's say even 10 have left residues, potentially carrying the virus, and you carelessly manage to contaminate yourself with that of all 10! Even so your chance of getting sick is about  1 - (1 - 0.0007)^10 or about 0.007, about 1 in 150.

 

So, relax. These numbers indicate that even if you're goofy chances of infection are low. And, of course, if you mask up and do  the right things then the risk drops even further because even if you enter the airspace of that 1 in 1500 infected fellow chances are you still won't catch anything. 

[smutcakes]

I go by private car, but personally i think BTS is pretty safe. Generally every single person is wearing a mask, you are probably normally on it for no more than 10 mins., and everyone literally stands there in silence looking down at their phones. Its also well ventilated- obviously you have to be conscious to wash your hands etc after using handholds.

 

In all of this around the World it does not appear or been big news that public transport systems, taxis etc are big spreaders of Covid. I think inter province bus probably the worst as you are enclosed for potentially hours on end.

[dddave]

On 4/27/2021 at 8:07 AM, Why Me said:

Assume new infections a day are (rounding up) 3,000 consistently,  C-19 incubation period 14 days. This means there's 3,000 x 14 = 42,000 currently infective persons in Thailand. Let's round this up to 50,000. Thailand population is 70,000,000 rounded up to include expats.

 

Which means the chance of a random person in this country being infective = 50,000/70,000,000 = 0.00071... That is about 7 in 10,000 or about 1 in 1,500 people are infective.

 

Sure the cab you're in has carried several passengers before you. Let's say even 10 have left residues, potentially carrying the virus, and you carelessly manage to contaminate yourself with that of all 10! Even so your chance of getting sick is about  1 - (1 - 0.0007)^10 or about 0.007, about 1 in 150.

 

So, relax. These numbers indicate that even if you're goofy chances of infection are low. And, of course, if you mask up and do  the right things then the risk drops even further because even if you enter the airspace of that 1 in 1500 infected fellow chances are you still won't catch anything. 

Statistics like that mean nothing.  Those numbers assume a uniform distribution of the nations population over it's entire area...each person standing on their assigned little square.   It does not take into account the hugely disproportionate population density of urban areas v. rural areas and thus the much greater likelihood of contact viral transmission in dense areas.

Edited April 28, 2021 by dddave

[Why Me]

4 hours ago, dddave said:

each person standing on their assigned little square. 

555. There is a uniform distribution assumption but this is not it. Hint: It has to do with the disease.

 

Ok, so you figured it out. But it is a fair premise if you don't have added info to bias the population you are interacting with.

[AlfHuy]

On 4/26/2021 at 1:16 PM, Crossy said:

Zoom!! (or Teams or Google Meet or whatever happens to be flavour of the month)

 

If I absolutely HAVE to be physically somewhere I'll drive myself.

I tried ZOOM. Called everywhere but nobody knows them in BKK. 

Is this the same as Grab?

 

 

 

Asking for a friend.

[englishoak]

Just expect to catch it and get on with your day. 

[Tony125]

Lucky to have a car??  I think most farangs in Thailand especially those in rural areas have their own car or moto bike. If taking public transport I always wea a mask and carry alcohol spay or gel with me. Also exta mask in case I lose mine or strap breaks whatever.  Always dissenfect hands after holding on train handrails or getting out of cab, before eating and after.

[Tony125]

Just now, Tony125 said:

Lucky to have a car??  I think most farangs in Thailand especially those in rural areas have their own car or moto bike. If taking public transport I always wear a mask and carry alcohol spray or gel with me. Also exta mask in case I lose mine or strap breaks whatever.  Always dissenfect hands after holding on train handrails or getting out of cab, before eating and after.

 

[Skeptic7]

Planes, trains, busses and GRAB. Sontaew too. Been traveling more now than ever and plenty derided for it, but that's for the other threads. Wear a mask, wash your hands and enjoy the emptiness!

 

Flight down to BKK was well less than full. Bus from Suvarnabhumi to Jomtien had only 12. On the return just the other day, bus had only 4 of us. Plane less than 50%. Hotels are super cheap now too and most restaurants empty. 

 

Pandemic sucks, but when life throws lemons...make lemonade! 

[Aomelia]

On 4/26/2021 at 9:45 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

Airborne transmission can occur when people are in close proximity... i.e. <1 meter and in inadequately ventilated areas, the virus can spread from an infected person’s mouth or nose in small liquid particles when they cough, sneeze, speak, sing or breathe heavily - Not so much when a person just breathes or talks.

 

When people are exercising social distancing (>2m) the risk of aerosol transmission is reduced and occurs under ‘certain conditions’ i.e. directly downwind of a person coughing, sneezing, breathing heavily etc. 

 

The virus also commonly spreads when people touch and contaminate surfaces. 

i.e. someone takes off their face-mask, which is contaminated... touch the door knob / handle, touch the taxi door handle, hold the escalator etc etc... 

 

 

 

Basically, in your Baht Bus you are shafted, have you been sanitising your 10 baht coins ? has the Songthew driving been sanitising his change ?

 

 

Touch remains a major source of transmission - this has always been the case with viruses and continues to be so, even with SARS-CoV-2 of different variants.

 

 

 

 

 

The baht busses are packed like sardines to Jomtien No Way  I will take them from Pattaya Tai 

[Poet]

If over 65 or in a high risk group (overweight, diabetic etc), or if living with such a person, isolate yourself until you can get vaccinated.

Otherwise, proceed as normal. Your chances of being badly affected are vanishingly small.

Much of the low-level hysteria among the public is because people don't understand how to weigh statistics.

Much of the common advice, repeated by some in this thread, has also been debunked by credible studies but has now become a form of religious observance: avoid touching surfaces, keep sanitizing your hands, avoid going closer than two meters to other people, wear masks outside, wear masks while driving, don't sleep with Indians etc.

This is all just theatre, much like the airport security theatre after 9-11. It reassures people to think there are specific things they can do to ward off misfortune. You should participate, but only to reassure those citizens who have been frightened witless by clueless authorities and a media addicted to doom clicks.

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Poet

[richard_smith237]

14 minutes ago, Poet said:

If over 65 or in a high risk group (overweight, diabetic etc), or if living with such a person, isolate yourself until you can get vaccinated.

Otherwise, proceed as normal. Your chances of being badly affected are vanishingly small.

Much of the low-level hysteria among the public is because people don't understand how to weigh statistics.

 

Agreed with this... 

 

14 minutes ago, Poet said:

Much of the common advice, repeated by some in this thread, has also been debunked by credible studies but has now become a form of religious observance: avoid touching surfaces, keep sanitizing your hands, avoid going closer than two meters to other people, wear masks outside, wear masks while driving, don't sleep with Indians etc.

 

Washing hands - definitely agree with this..  with or without Covid-19.

Mask Wearing - Follow what the Japanese have been doing for decades, wear a mask if you have cold symptoms (makes perfect sense).

Socially isolating - Busy pubs and clubs are obviously hotbeds of viral spread, otherwise, social distancing is a good thing anyway, with or without viruses, its nice not to be pushed !

Look-up Sonam Kapoor... you may change your mind !

 

 

14 minutes ago, Poet said:

This is all just theatre, much like the airport security theatre after 9-11. It reassures people to think there are specific things they can do to ward off misfortune. You should participate, but only to reassure those citizens who have been frightened witless by clueless authorities and a media addicted to doom clicks.
 

 

There is a crazy amount of hysteria. Criticism of this doesn’t mean I believe Covid-19 isn’t a genuine issue, contrary to what many people are commenting, Covid-19 its clearly worse than influenza - nevertheless the continue global reaction is insane. 

 

 

[Poet]

57 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Criticism of this doesn’t mean I believe Covid-19 isn’t a genuine issue, contrary to what many people are commenting, Covid-19 its clearly worse than influenza

Agreed.

 

57 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Look-up Sonam Kapoor... you may change your mind !

Okay. I am willing to make exceptions, but I would expect her to romance me a bit first.
 

57 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Socially isolating - Busy pubs and clubs are obviously hotbeds of viral spread, otherwise, social distancing is a good thing anyway, with or without viruses, its nice not to be pushed !

Sure, some people didn't enjoy crowds much even before the pandemic, but for many mixing with other people adds to their overall sense of well-being. Feeling isolated can be highly detrimental to your overall physical and mental well-being. Given what we know about the impact on longevity of owning pets, or having a partner, it is reasonable to guess that a year of avoiding people, and being avoided, and of seeing most faces in the real world (as opposed to TV) obscured by masks must to damaging most people more than the virus would.

 

57 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Mask Wearing - Follow what the Japanese have been doing for decades, wear a mask if you have cold symptoms (makes perfect sense).

Politely wearing a mask when you self-assess that you may be a risk to others is one thing. Mandating the use of masks, even in situations where they could not possibly make a differnce, creates the escalating perception that other people are a bio-hazard. It clearly damages the mental and social development of children. It unmoors the 20% of the population with mental health issues, including many much-loved ThaiVisa moderators.

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Poet

[Poet]

[Skeptic7]

9 hours ago, Aomelia said:

The baht busses are packed like sardines to Jomtien No Way  I will take them from Pattaya Tai 

Normally yes.... but after 5 days in Patts and Jomtien (just left 5 days ago) saw zero Songtaews packed. Most empty and a few with 1-4. I never wait in the "cattle car" scam lines. Also, if ya hail one and it's too full...just wave them on. No obligation to jump in.

 

Most of the time, including 5 days end of March, rode alone. They were so desperate, 2 even got out and asked if we wanted to go to Beach Rd or Nakluea...or...Jomtien or u-turn back on 2nd Rd. Also noticeably fewer of them. 

 

Not normal times, these. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Skeptic7

[Skeptic7]

6 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

There is a crazy amount of hysteria. Criticism of this doesn’t mean I believe Covid-19 isn’t a genuine issue, contrary to what many people are commenting, Covid-19 its clearly worse than influenza - nevertheless the continue global reaction is insane. 

Wanted to say THANK YOU for writing this. I've been saying this same thing since last Feb. Started when the LPGA Honda Golf Tourney was canceled. I've been stating this very thing for 14 months...much to the chagrin and derision of the majority of TV posters. 

 

Thanks for being a drop of reason in a sea of overreaction insanity. ????

[JTXR]

We're in Bangkok.  We go out much less than before and drive when we can. 

If I need to go somewhere while the wife has the car, I take Grab.  When booking, I can see the fare and I carry a little more than that in cash, leaving the change as a tip so I don't handle anything from the driver.  I wear a mask and ensure the driver is wearing his/hers properly and I open the two back windows.  I touch as little as possible in the car and clean hands thoroughly with alcohol after arrival.