If one gets the Sinovac vaccine ...

[Oxx]

If one gets a Covid vaccination in Thailand, as it stands there's a high chance it'll be the Sinovac vaccine, and one has no choice over which vaccine one receives.  Unfortunately, the Sinovac vaccine isn't recognised by the European Union, and one won't be able to travel there after having had it.  (See https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-25/vaccine-travel-rules-widen-the-rift-between-china-and-the-west .)

 

Would it be safe to get another vaccination with a "proper" vaccine (should private hospitals ever be allowed to offer one) after Sinovac? Or is one better off skipping the government-offered vaccine and waiting until a quality vaccine becomes available?

 

 

[Sheryl]

Actually if you are able to get vaccinated here it will likely be AZ not Sinovac.

 

Sinovac is being used just as a temporary measure until AZ is available. Ukess you live at ground zero of a hot spot you are unlikely to be offered Sinovac,

 

As to getting vaccinated with different vaccines, the simple answer is no one knows because it has not been researched. There is a trial underway now in the UK on a regime where one dose is AZ and the other Pfizer but it will be some time before results are available. And that is not the same as getting a full course of one vaccine followed by a full course of another. They haven't called the trial off so presumably there are no obvious early adverse effects being seen, is the most that can be said, and again that is with just 1 injection of each of 2 different vaccines.

 

I am in this dilemma myself though with a twist in that I am going to the US in July. I can get Pfizer or Moderna in US easily enough but may also have the chance to get AZ in Thailand first (though probably only the first injection not the second unless things start up sooner than I think they will).

 

I would rather have Pfizer or Moderna. But I would also rather be immunized before getting on a long international flight. And I will face recommended self-isolation and other restrictions in the US if I arrive unvaccinated.

 

I have researched this up and down, bottom line is no on knows/can say the effect of getting 2 different vaccine series. However it is known that it is safe to be vaccinated if you have already had COVID which leads me to think that it is probably  also be safe to be vaccinated with a different vaccine months after getting vaccinated with another. But that is just my own best guess, it is not hard fact and if I do this (as I may) it will be at my own risk.

 

 

[Tagged]

8 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Actually if you are able to get vaccinated here it will likely be AZ not Sinovac.

 

Sinovac is being used just as a temporary measure until AZ is available. Ukess you live at ground zero of a hot spot you are unlikely to be offered Sinovac,

 

As to getting vaccinated with different vaccines, the simple answer is no one knows because it has not been researched. There is a trial underway now in the UK on a regime where one dose is AZ and the other Pfizer but it will be some time before results are available. And that is not the same as getting a full course of one vaccine followed by a full course of another. They haven't called the trial off so presumably there are no obvious early adverse effects being seen, is the most that can be said, and again that is with just 1 injection of each of 2 different vaccines.

 

I am in this dilemma myself though with a twist in that I am going to the US in July. I can get Pfizer or Moderna in US easily enough but may also have the chance to get AZ in Thailand first (though probably only the first injection not the second unless things start up sooner than I think they will).

 

I would rather have Pfizer or Moderna. But I would also rather be immunized before getting on a long international flight. And I will face recommended self-isolation and other restrictions in the US if I arrive unvaccinated.

 

I have researched this up and down, bottom line is no on knows/can say the effect of getting 2 different vaccine series. However it is known that it is safe to be vaccinated if you have already had COVID which leads me to think that it is probably  also be safe to be vaccinated with a different vaccine months after getting vaccinated with another. But that is just my own best guess, it is not hard fact and if I do this (as I may) it will be at my own risk.

 

 

In Norway they use a different vaccine for second jab now due to the stopped using the Astra Zenica 11. march My sister is health care worker, and got the Astra Zenica for first, and now next week she will get the Pfeizer. 

 

Did not find a english version 

https://sykepleien.no/2021/04/astrazeneca-vaksinerte-tilbys-pfizer-eller-moderna

Edited May 1, 2021 by Tagged

[RichardColeman]

15 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Sinovac is being used just as a temporary measure until AZ is available.

A temporary measure until they can get one that works ? 

[Sheryl]

10 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

A temporary measure until they can get one that works ? 

 

until locally produced AZ vaccines available.

 

The entire Thai vaccination plan was based on using locally produced vaccine despite the obvious long lead time needed for that. It is only within the past month that they have belatedly started to scrounge around to purchase and import vaccine.  As far as I know the local production scheme remains the main plan.

[stretch5163]

7 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

until locally produced AZ vaccines available.

 

The entire Thai vaccination plan was based on using locally produced vaccine despite the obvious long lead time needed for that. It is only within the past month that they have belatedly started to scrounge around to purchase and import vaccine.  As far as I know the local production scheme remains the main plan.

So 3.5 milion people are going to be unlucky and get sinovac as im sure a few more will. Also the effects on travel could be a serious implication. Mind you its ok for the government and officials already vaccinated as they had the choice.

 

If 1 person gets the choice then it should be open to all.

 

Its hard but it should be fair.

 

If it was me id rather wait till i could get the vaccone that i believe would be more beneficial to myself. And i have advised my wife of that i would rather pay for Private injection for wife and family if they are being forced to take what they are given.

 

[Rhacsyn]

Hi. Below may be of interest as WHO approval for Sinovac and Sinopharm appears to be progressing.....

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3131021/world-health-organization-decide-whether-approve-chinese-covid

[Oxx]

7 minutes ago, Rhacsyn said:

Hi. Below may be of interest as WHO approval for Sinovac and Sinopharm appears to be progressing.....

 

Forgive my being sceptical, but I'm not sure that a report from the South China Morning Post is the most reliable or independent of sources for this.

[Sheryl]

15 minutes ago, stretch5163 said:

So 3.5 milion people are going to be unlucky and get sinovac as im sure a few more will.

 

 3.5 million doses = 1.75 million people. Staff at hospitals, clinics, health centers, health co=volunteers mainly. For the general population plan is AZ.

 

"Astra-Zeneca vaccines will begin being administered in June to 11.7 million senior citizens above the age of 60, and to 4.3 million people with any one of seven listed chronic illnesses. "    https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1215456-registrations-for-vaccinations-start-may-1st/

 

[Rhacsyn]

4 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

Forgive my being sceptical, but I'm not sure that a report from the South China Morning Post is the most reliable or independent of sources for this.

 

True...

[expatjustice]

It all depends on each personal's situation. 

 

If you are a high risk person (be it because of age, underlying disease, ...) you'd be better off with one of the most effective vaccines, either Pfizer or Moderna (the ones using mRNA). 

 

If you are a very young person, in a very low risk gap (such as myself), you might as well get Sinovac, a vaccine which uses the same technique that has been used in vaccines for a long time and has been proven safe. It may not be as effective, but given that originally you already were in a low risk group, it's not like it will make a difference...

 

IMO mRna is a new technique, which has not been tried in humans before, And nobody knows what will happen X years from now (almost for sure nothing). But it is my opinion that if I don't have the need for one of those more effective vaccines, I'd rather not take it. 

 

And besides I am looking forward to returning to China without quarantine, so in my case I am praying to get SinoVac here in Thailand.

 

AstraZeneca is also apparently not recommended for young people, while SinoVac is not recommended for senior citizens. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by expatjustice

[Kiujunn]

7 hours ago, Tagged said:

In Norway they use a different vaccine for second jab now due to the stopped using the Astra Zenica 11. march My sister is health care worker, and got the Astra Zenica for first, and now next week she will get the Pfeizer. 

 

Did not find a english version 

https://sykepleien.no/2021/04/astrazeneca-vaksinerte-tilbys-pfizer-eller-moderna

Not only Norway. 

Quite a few European countries do this now.

[Moonlover]

7 hours ago, Oxx said:

7 hours ago, Rhacsyn said:

Hi. Below may be of interest as WHO approval for Sinovac and Sinopharm appears to be progressing.....

 

7 hours ago, Oxx said:

 

Forgive my being sceptical, but I'm not sure that a report from the South China Morning Post is the most reliable or independent of sources for this.

The South China Morning Post is Hong Kong based where, despite the pressure from the north, does still have a high degree of press freedom.

[Moonlover]

7 hours ago, Rhacsyn said:

Hi. Below may be of interest as WHO approval for Sinovac and Sinopharm appears to be progressing.....

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3131021/world-health-organization-decide-whether-approve-chinese-covid

This is an interesting article. What it does seem to reveal is that the much lauded Covax enterprise is pretty much hamstrung without the Chinese vaccines. 

 

All those who fire off their pop guns at Thailand for not signing up to that scheme should read it.

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Moonlover

[Kiujunn]

18 hours ago, Sheryl said:

For the general population plan is AZ.

Key word is "plan".

 

It is imho conceivable that they don't have a lot AZ by June but get more Sinovac, so due to a worsening situation in Thailand they might just use Sinovac for more people than planned.  They will certainly prefer it to Pfizer and the like, it comes from a friend and the profit margin should be larger. 

 

They give you a certificate after your vaccination, and they stamp which vaccine you got. So you will know.

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, Kiujunn said:

 

They give you a certificate after your vaccination, and they stamp which vaccine you got. So you will know.

 

I will certainly verify which vaccine it is before I get it.

 

I am not in the "no Chinese vaccine under any circumstances" camp but I won't take it if there is any chance of getting AZ anytime within say the same month.  I woukld take it if it was all that was going it be available, though, as it is better than nothing. But without question, less effective than other vaccines.

[abrahamzvi]

On 5/1/2021 at 12:56 PM, Sheryl said:

Actually if you are able to get vaccinated here it will likely be AZ not Sinovac.

 

Sinovac is being used just as a temporary measure until AZ is available. Ukess you live at ground zero of a hot spot you are unlikely to be offered Sinovac,

 

As to getting vaccinated with different vaccines, the simple answer is no one knows because it has not been researched. There is a trial underway now in the UK on a regime where one dose is AZ and the other Pfizer but it will be some time before results are available. And that is not the same as getting a full course of one vaccine followed by a full course of another. They haven't called the trial off so presumably there are no obvious early adverse effects being seen, is the most that can be said, and again that is with just 1 injection of each of 2 different vaccines.

 

I am in this dilemma myself though with a twist in that I am going to the US in July. I can get Pfizer or Moderna in US easily enough but may also have the chance to get AZ in Thailand first (though probably only the first injection not the second unless things start up sooner than I think they will).

 

I would rather have Pfizer or Moderna. But I would also rather be immunized before getting on a long international flight. And I will face recommended self-isolation and other restrictions in the US if I arrive unvaccinated.

 

I have researched this up and down, bottom line is no on knows/can say the effect of getting 2 different vaccine series. However it is known that it is safe to be vaccinated if you have already had COVID which leads me to think that it is probably  also be safe to be vaccinated with a different vaccine months after getting vaccinated with another. But that is just my own best guess, it is not hard fact and if I do this (as I may) it will be at my own risk.

 

 

The system at present offers registration for vaccinations in June forward only to people over 60 years of age, or other risks group. The authorities authorized the use of Sinovac only to people under 55, so that there is no danger of being vaccinated with Sinovac under the present registration. I assume it will be AZ, but, although some unfortunate people had serious after or side effects from AZ, the percentage is under 0.00001. I am quite prepared to take the risk of being part of this 0.00001%. Pfizer and Moderna seem to be free of serious side effects, but who knows if there are no long term risks. As with most immunizations, a certain minute risk always exists, much, much less than being run over by a vehicle, crossing the road.

[Aomelia]

On 5/1/2021 at 1:34 PM, stretch5163 said:

So 3.5 milion people are going to be unlucky and get sinovac as im sure a few more will. Also the effects on travel could be a serious implication. Mind you its ok for the government and officials already vaccinated as they had the choice.

 

If 1 person gets the choice then it should be open to all.

 

Its hard but it should be fair.

 

If it was me id rather wait till i could get the vaccone that i believe would be more beneficial to myself. And i have advised my wife of that i would rather pay for Private injection for wife and family if they are being forced to take what they are given.

 

 

[JTXR]

On 5/1/2021 at 12:56 PM, Sheryl said:

I am in this dilemma myself though with a twist in that I am going to the US in July. I can get Pfizer or Moderna in US easily enough but may also have the chance to get AZ in Thailand first (though probably only the first injection not the second unless things start up sooner than I think they will).

I am in exactly the same boat (also planning to go to the US in July).  I'll be closely following reports from Europe on those people who got a first shot of AZ and a second shot of Pfizer or Moderna.  Even though I'm over 60, I somehow doubt foreigners will be able to get even an AZ shot here before July.  We'll see.....

Do you have any links to actual data on rates of COVID infection on long flights?  (The anecdotal "reports" I hear are all over the place.)

[vandeventer]

On 5/1/2021 at 1:11 PM, RichardColeman said:

A temporary measure until they can get one that works ? 

So if we get the Sinovac jabs are we suppose to thank China for a vaccine that doesn't work well and leaves us unable to go to most other countries. I think I will pass on this one.

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, vandeventer said:

So if we get the Sinovac jabs are we suppose to thank China for a vaccine that doesn't work well and leaves us unable to go to most other countries. I think I will pass on this one.

 

Which countries are saying they will not permit entry to anyone who has taken the Sinovac vaccine ?

[Oxx]

We're a lot of posts into this topic, but as far as I can see, not one has addressed my original question:

 

On 5/1/2021 at 12:34 PM, Oxx said:

Would it be safe to get another vaccination with a "proper" vaccine (should private hospitals ever be allowed to offer one) after Sinovac?

 

A couple of Sinovac jabs would prep the body to react to any Covid spike-like proteins.  Would that mean that a subsequent jab might lead the body to over react to another vaccine, possibly with serious side effects?

[vandeventer]

15 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Which countries are saying they will not permit entry to anyone who has taken the Sinovac vaccine ?

https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/forum/forum-countries-should-accept-any-who-approved-vaccine-by-travellers

[jomtienisgood]

On 5/1/2021 at 12:56 PM, Sheryl said:

Actually if you are able to get vaccinated here it will likely be AZ not Sinovac.

 

Sinovac is being used just as a temporary measure until AZ is available. Ukess you live at ground zero of a hot spot you are unlikely to be offered Sinovac,

 

As to getting vaccinated with different vaccines, the simple answer is no one knows because it has not been researched. There is a trial underway now in the UK on a regime where one dose is AZ and the other Pfizer but it will be some time before results are available. And that is not the same as getting a full course of one vaccine followed by a full course of another. They haven't called the trial off so presumably there are no obvious early adverse effects being seen, is the most that can be said, and again that is with just 1 injection of each of 2 different vaccines.

 

I am in this dilemma myself though with a twist in that I am going to the US in July. I can get Pfizer or Moderna in US easily enough but may also have the chance to get AZ in Thailand first (though probably only the first injection not the second unless things start up sooner than I think they will).

 

I would rather have Pfizer or Moderna. But I would also rather be immunized before getting on a long international flight. And I will face recommended self-isolation and other restrictions in the US if I arrive unvaccinated.

 

I have researched this up and down, bottom line is no on knows/can say the effect of getting 2 different vaccine series. However it is known that it is safe to be vaccinated if you have already had COVID which leads me to think that it is probably  also be safe to be vaccinated with a different vaccine months after getting vaccinated with another. But that is just my own best guess, it is not hard fact and if I do this (as I may) it will be at my own risk.

 

 

Q1: as far as i understood, upon having had COVID there is a 6 months waiting prior to getting any vaccine. Correct??

Q2: In the event it would be Sinovac or the Russian vaccine, so far not accepted in EU, will the vaccination be considered valid and as such accepted????

 

[superal]

On 5/1/2021 at 6:56 AM, Sheryl said:

Actually if you are able to get vaccinated here it will likely be AZ not Sinovac.

 

Sinovac is being used just as a temporary measure until AZ is available. Ukess you live at ground zero of a hot spot you are unlikely to be offered Sinovac,

 

As to getting vaccinated with different vaccines, the simple answer is no one knows because it has not been researched. There is a trial underway now in the UK on a regime where one dose is AZ and the other Pfizer but it will be some time before results are available. And that is not the same as getting a full course of one vaccine followed by a full course of another. They haven't called the trial off so presumably there are no obvious early adverse effects being seen, is the most that can be said, and again that is with just 1 injection of each of 2 different vaccines.

 

I am in this dilemma myself though with a twist in that I am going to the US in July. I can get Pfizer or Moderna in US easily enough but may also have the chance to get AZ in Thailand first (though probably only the first injection not the second unless things start up sooner than I think they will).

 

I would rather have Pfizer or Moderna. But I would also rather be immunized before getting on a long international flight. And I will face recommended self-isolation and other restrictions in the US if I arrive unvaccinated.

 

I have researched this up and down, bottom line is no on knows/can say the effect of getting 2 different vaccine series. However it is known that it is safe to be vaccinated if you have already had COVID which leads me to think that it is probably  also be safe to be vaccinated with a different vaccine months after getting vaccinated with another. But that is just my own best guess, it is not hard fact and if I do this (as I may) it will be at my own risk.

 

My Partner and her 74 year old mother were yesterday told that the sinovac would be the vaccine that will be used up here in Issan at a local government hospital . 

Do you know if the 12 week gap between the first and second dose is strict ? i.e. could the 2nd dose be given after say 6 weeks ?

 

[Kiujunn]

1 hour ago, Oxx said:

We're a lot of posts into this topic, but as far as I can see, not one has addressed my original question:

 

 

A couple of Sinovac jabs would prep the body to react to any Covid spike-like proteins.  Would that mean that a subsequent jab might lead the body to over react to another vaccine, possibly with serious side effects?

Sheryl did answer:

"no one knows because it has not been researched"

 

Normally,  there will be studies, ideally randomized double blind studies, people get vax A and then vax B and you see what happens. 

Efficacy?

Side effects?

 

But even with relatively common old-fashioned vaccinations, not always do these studies exist for every combination of vaccines. 

So the doctor 1. avoids mixing vaccines,  2. uses medical common sense. 

Medical common sense would suggest there won't be a problem if e.g. Pfizer after Sinovac. Mr Gao even suggested it. But this is really just an educated guess.

"no one knows because it has not been researched"

[Sheryl]

42 minutes ago, jomtienisgood said:

Q1: as far as i understood, upon having had COVID there is a 6 months waiting prior to getting any vaccine. Correct??

Q2: In the event it would be Sinovac or the Russian vaccine, so far not accepted in EU, will the vaccination be considered valid and as such accepted????

 

 

Q1 - no, not according to any of the guidance i have seen,  It is recommended to wait for full recovery from infection as indicated by a negative test , or  to wait 90 days if one received treatment with monoclonal antibodies or convalescent plasma.    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html

 

Q2 - accepted by whom for what purpose?  as far as I know the EU has not yet worked out the details of the proposed "Digital Green Certificate", meanwhile different countries are setting up different entry requirements, and within countries, different entities may have different requirements. You'd have to check the details of the particular entity and  rules in question.  Some may not even specify type of vaccine. Those that do, may or may not accept the Chinese and Russian vaccines.

[Sheryl]

11 minutes ago, Kiujunn said:

Sheryl did answer:

"no one knows because it has not been researched"

 

Normally,  there will be studies, ideally randomized double blind studies, people get vax A and then vax B and you see what happens. 

Efficacy?

Side effects?

 

But even with relatively common old-fashioned vaccinations, not always do these studies exist for every combination of vaccines. 

So the doctor 1. avoids mixing vaccines,  2. uses medical common sense. 

Medical common sense would suggest there won't be a problem if e.g. Pfizer after Sinovac. Mr Gao even suggested it. But this is really just an educated guess.

"no one knows because it has not been researched"

 

There is however a study now in progress in the UK. But will be many months before we get the results. And this is looking at 1 dose of each of 2 vaccines, not complete series of one vaccine followed by 1 or more doses of another.

[Sheryl]

@superal

Sinovac is supposed to be 4 weeks apart (28 days).  Astra Zeneca anywhere from 4 to 12 weeks.

 

It is against MoPH guidelines to use Sinovac on people over the age of 60. Your partner may have been mis-informed. The hospitals haven't received the vaccine yet except for use in their own staff, and that was Sinovac.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, JTXR said:

I am in exactly the same boat (also planning to go to the US in July).  I'll be closely following reports from Europe on those people who got a first shot of AZ and a second shot of Pfizer or Moderna.  Even though I'm over 60, I somehow doubt foreigners will be able to get even an AZ shot here before July.  We'll see.....

Do you have any links to actual data on rates of COVID infection on long flights?  (The anecdotal "reports" I hear are all over the place.)

 

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/3/20-4714_article

Does not quantify risk, just proves that transmission can and does occur inflight in  some cases

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7016e1.htm

modeling exercise only. There are others as well. These look only at inflight though and do not factor in the risk at the airport and in boarding/disembarkation

 

It is impossible in any case to quantify rate of infection since it will vary greatly by individual flight depending on whether any infected people are inboard and if so how many; how infectious they are; whether they (and you) wear a mask; seating arrangements etc etc etc.

 

What I can tell you is that you are going to be safer if

• passengers were required to show a negative COVID test
• mask wearing is required and enforced both in the plane and in the airport
• middle seats are kept empty
• you fly business r first class. This not only means better spaced seats but most importantly means you can avoid the crowded embarkation/disembarkation and crowds at security checks in the airport etc

For me, I am going to go business class and I would recommend that if possible. And of course wear a good quality mask