Are American Foreign Residents Totally Powerless?

[mikebike]

On 5/7/2021 at 8:25 AM, bwpage3 said:

You have to love it when people speak on facts they only read in the news.

 

In Florida, USA, all covid restrictions lifted. No masks required. Life has been back to normal for quite a long time now.

 

Of course vaccines have been free and super easy to get.

 

Many hospitals and other places have a parking lot marked off. Drive into a designated space, roll your window down, get a vaccine, wait for 15 minutes for side effects, then drive off. That simple.

Yet Florida's 7 day average for cases stands at 4,150/day May 06 for a population of 20 million-ish.... whereas Thailand is still under 2,000/day with a population of 70 million-ish. Weird.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/8/2021 at 4:04 AM, DogNo1 said:

Also, as an American citizen it is appropriate for me to appeal to America for help, not to other countries or entities.  

By living in another country you, IMO, negate the requirement for America to do anything at all for you. If you want government help live in America.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, 1FinickyOne said:

Yo - Dog#1 

 

More than a bit over dramatic eh? 

 

If you are that frightened, just follow the precautions.. Same as last year, we mostly stay home but for one supermarket trip per week and we are fine.. I like going out and the world being open, but hanging at home ain't so bad...

Indeed, if not for a certain person it's likely vaccines would not even be available for another 3 to 5 years, which seems to be a normal period of time to produce a vaccine for sale.

[Ventenio]

On 5/7/2021 at 4:41 AM, Swiss1960 said:

Always amazed at American thinking... invading a foreign, sovereign country with which you are in peace,

 

I remember having tea with the Queen and talking about how we haven't invaded enough countries.   She said, "India is boring, Africa is boring, America was boring, we need more!.

 

but after a few good butt whoopings they finally found their place on the island.

 

even France laughs at them now

[bwpage3]

3 hours ago, mikebike said:

Yet Florida's 7 day average for cases stands at 4,150/day May 06 for a population of 20 million-ish.... whereas Thailand is still under 2,000/day with a population of 70 million-ish. Weird.

Do you comprehend how limited the Thai testing is?

 

MY BIL in rural Isaan called, said he has never seen a tester nor has anyone else? Folks are scared to death up there, no testing, no nothing.

 

Thailand seems to be fixed ONLY on small clusters in specific known areas.

 

What about the rest of the entire country?

 

How many areas in Thailand remain untested at all? Probably most.

 

365 days x 2,000 tests per day = 730,000 tests per year

 

66,000,000 population / 730,000 tests per year = 90.41 years

 

365 days x 20,000 tests per day = 7,300,000 tests per year

 

66,000,000 / 7,300,000 tests per year = 9.04 years

 

365 days x 50,000 tests per day = 18,250,000 tests per year

 

66,000,000 / 18,250,000 = 3.616 years 

 

Even at the best case of 50,000 tests per day it would still take over 3.5 years just to test the people already there. Not counting any tourists that enter.

[frantick]

The OP, IMO, is exactly what's wrong with half the USA right now. The government gave you fair warning, almost begging you to return last year. Freedom comes with personal responsibilities, go home.

 

Advice from one of the other half.

 

 

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, frantick said:

The OP, IMO, is exactly what's wrong with half the USA right now. The government gave you fair warning, almost begging you to return last year. Freedom comes with personal responsibilities, go home.

 

Advice from one of the other half.

 

 

I didn't notice any such begging from the US government back then. Sounds like revisionist history. 

[frantick]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I didn't notice any such begging from the US government back then. Sounds like revisionist history. 

Is NPR an 'approved' media site?

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/03/23/820278369/state-department-urges-americans-to-return-home-or-stay-away-for-undetermined-ti

 

 

[canthai55]

You pays your money and you takes your chances means that when you do something that involves a risk, you cannot control the outcome, so you may win or lose and should accept that.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, frantick said:

Is NPR an 'approved' media site?

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/03/23/820278369/state-department-urges-americans-to-return-home-or-stay-away-for-undetermined-ti

 

 

I thought you were implying that the begging was more specific to Americans in Thailand. 

Frankly most long term expats in Thailand probably saw sticking it out in Thailand as the probably better bet. 

Of course either choice was a gamble.

We couldn't have predicted the specific future developments in either country.

Such as that the USA was one of the hardest hit countries in the world largely because mitigation measures were politicized. Nor could we have predicted the historical speed of multiple vaccines being developed or the rapid progress vaccinating people in the US.

So really choosing either to stay or to go were both entirely defensible decisions.

[Saltire]

Just a guess but I suspect reading the post, the OP is ex miltary?

 

 

 

 

[frantick]

17 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I thought you were implying that the begging was more specific to Americans in Thailand. 

Frankly most long term expats in Thailand probably saw sticking it out in Thailand as the probably better bet. 

Of course either choice was a gamble.

We couldn't have predicted the specific future developments in either country.

Such as that the USA was one of the hardest hit countries in the world largely because mitigation measures were politicized. Nor could we have predicted the historical speed of multiple vaccines being developed or the rapid progress vaccinating people in the US.

So really choosing either to stay or to go were both entirely defensible decisions.

True, but he chose to stay so shouldn't be whining about a vaccine that, had he gone back, he would already have.

[Jingthing]

59 minutes ago, frantick said:

True, but he chose to stay so shouldn't be whining about a vaccine that, had he gone back, he would already have.

More likely if he had gone home that he'd be another statistic. 

I'm not with you on this. 

Vaccines schedules in any country should be based on risk group categories. Period.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, frantick said:

The OP, IMO, is exactly what's wrong with half the USA right now. The government gave you fair warning, almost begging you to return last year. Freedom comes with personal responsibilities, go home.

 

Advice from one of the other half.

 

 

Define the other half.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I didn't notice any such begging from the US government back then. Sounds like revisionist history. 

I did.

Edited May 9, 2021 by thaibeachlovers

[connda]

On 5/7/2021 at 4:25 AM, DogNo1 said:

I think that it is time to appeal to the US Marines to fly in a squadron of Ospreys laden with vaccine supplies and land them on the embassy grounds on Wireless.

The primary purpose of US embassies in foreign countries are to exert US influence and US foreign policy within the host country. 
US citizens abroad are an afterthought, although charging US citizens for 'services" is a way to offset some of the Embassy's operational costs.
They are not concerned about you or any of us.  They aren't flying in vaccines for anyone who voluntarily expatriated from the US..  They assume if you need a vaccine so badly, you can travel back to the US and obtain the shots.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

14 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Reset the the counter.  Start it from now.  

 

I'm good for that... As I said, I've been making no predictions about the future, just looking at where Thailand and the U.S. already have been to the current point in time.

 

As for starting from NOW... Right now, even with its more advanced vaccination campaign, the U.S. is recording 700-800 CV deaths each and every day, though a bit less today. Thailand, with about one fourth the population of the U.S., is recording -+ 20 CV deaths daily.

 

Divide the U.S. deaths by the population difference and you come out with about 200 per day. Reduce it even further to account for the testing/case recognition differences, and you still would be hard pressed to get a per capita real CV daily deaths number down to the current 20 or so number in Thailand.

 

Sure, Thailand may be missing some deaths that are in fact CV related.....  But if people were dying in vast extra numbers in the hinterlands of Thailand, there's be some news of that creeping into all the social media outlets that Thais love to use... And thus far at least, that just hasn't been happening.

 

U.S. - No. 1 with a CV bullet!

(the U.S. ranks No. 1 in the world for total CV cases and CV deaths (total, not per capita)  by a wide mile, though India lately is beginning to catch up). Per capita, last time I checked, the U.S was usually around the top 10-15.

 

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/informationcovid19/photos/a.106142991004034/321707592780905/

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I'm good for that... As I said, I've been making no predictions about the future, just looking at where Thailand and the U.S. already have been to the current point in time.

 

As for starting from NOW... Right now, even with its more advanced vaccination campaign, the U.S. is recording 700-800 CV deaths each and every day. Thailand, with about one fourth the population of the U.S., is recording -+ 20 CV deaths daily.

 

Divide the U.S. deaths by the population difference and you come out with about 200 per day. Reduce it even further to account for the testing/case recognition differences, and you still would be hard pressed to get a per capita real CV daily deaths number down to the current 20 or so number in Thailand.

 

Sure, Thailand may be missing some deaths that are in fact CV related.....  But if people were dying in vast extra numbers in the hinterlands of Thailand, there's be some news of that creeping into all the social media outlets that Thais love to use... And thus far at least, that just hasn't been happening.

 

It's be great to see some US stats as to death rate in rural areas vs cities, obese vs not obese etc etc. IMO obese people living in cities are more likely to die, but I haven't seen any stats to back that up.

I'd assume a greater proportion of Thais live in rural or semi rural areas, and I'm pretty sure the obesity rate is waaaaaaay lower than that of the US.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Indeed, as I said above, the U.S. currently ranks 16th in the world for per capita COVID deaths since the beginning... 

 

All that medical technology, research, expense and expertise, and they still couldn't manage to save their (my) people... Among the major developed countries, only Italy and the UK fared worse. (Thailand is so far down on the list you need a microscope to find them.)

 

Sad state of affairs. Hope for better times ahead...

 

Coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths worldwide per one million population as of May 7, 2021, by country

 

 

Thailand by comparison, is ranked about #148 on that same list (4 CV deaths per million population thus far)

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[canthai55]

23 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's be great to see some US stats as to death rate in rural areas vs cities, obese vs not obese etc etc. IMO obese people living in cities are more likely to die, but I haven't seen any stats to back that up.

I'd assume a greater proportion of Thais live in rural or semi rural areas, and I'm pretty sure the obesity rate is waaaaaaay lower than that of the US.

I would like to see stats that are believable - not absolute numbers which do nothing but scare the people.

Covid deaths without previous underlying conditions would do for a start.

To just say 'They died of Covid' when their lungs are shot, they are obese and diabetic, etc etc etc tells us nothing.

 

The U.S. adult obesity rate stands at 42.4 percent, the first time the national rate has passed the 40 percent mark, and further evidence of the country's obesity crisis. The national adult obesity rate has increased by 26 percent since 2008.

https://www.tfah.org/report-details/state-of-obesity-2020/

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

I would like to see stats that are believable - not absolute numbers which do nothing but scare the people.

Covid deaths without previous underlying conditions would do for a start.

To just say 'They died of Covid' when their lungs are shot, they are obese and diabetic, etc etc etc tells us nothing.

 

The U.S. adult obesity rate stands at 42.4 percent, the first time the national rate has passed the 40 percent mark, and further evidence of the country's obesity crisis. The national adult obesity rate has increased by 26 percent since 2008.

https://www.tfah.org/report-details/state-of-obesity-2020/

 

Thailand has its own issues in that regard... Very high rates of diabetes and hypertension, in addition to obesity...  all risk factors for serious COVID and complications.

 

You can debate the causes, but it's pretty hard to debate the results.

 

[DogNo1]

Yes, I am ex-military and my demand was meant to be provocative.  It did trigger a lot of discussion.   Some posters impute to me naivite about third world countries and anger toward Thailand.  Apart from beauracratic frustrations, I am quite happy with Thailand and have been treated kindly here.

 

Regarding my experience with third-world countries and delivering medical aid, I have much experience participating in MEDCAP activities delivering medical care and supplies to villages NW of Saigon from 1966 - 1969 so I know that the US military is capable of delivering medicine by air when the situation calls for it.   During my time in Vietnam, I had pleasant working relationships with Thai Air Force officers.  

Let me tell you: in 1967, Thailand really was a third-world country.  Its improvement in many ways since then is admirable.

Many Thai doctors were upset with the government's slowness to acquire vaccines - so much so that they demanded the resignation of Anutin.  The fault that I was addressing in my post was the decision to vaccinate all Thais before foreigners which was completely wrong headed.   Various embassies had imported vaccines to inoculate their staff but had not provided vaccines for their nationals living in Thailand, leaving that up to the Thai government.  The government did not bear that responsibility In an equitable manner.  Since America at that moment was sending tens of millions of doses to India, I didn't why some of that vaccine couldn't be diverted to Thailand.  Other embassies apparently have not reached out to nationals of other countries with offers of vaccination.   If Canada had demanded that its nationals be vaccinated too in return for their assistance to American diplomats in Iran that probably could have been done.  Fortunately, no American importation of a vaccine was necessary because the Thai Government quickly saw the light and decided to vaccinate everyone regardless of nationality.

I don't know of any other country that proposed to vaccinate only a select nationality in their country, do you?

[robblok]

11 minutes ago, DogNo1 said:

Yes, I am ex-military and my demand was meant to be provocative.  It did trigger a lot of discussion.   Some posters impute to me naivite about third world countries and anger toward Thailand.  Apart from beauracratic frustrations, I am quite happy with Thailand and have been treated kindly here.

 

Regarding my experience with third-world countries and delivering medical aid, I have much experience participating in MEDCAP activities delivering medical care and supplies to villages NW of Saigon from 1966 - 1969 so I know that the US military is capable of delivering medicine by air when the situation calls for it.   During my time in Vietnam, I had pleasant working relationships with Thai Air Force officers.  

Let me tell you: in 1967, Thailand really was a third-world country.  Its improvement in many ways since then is admirable.

Many Thai doctors were upset with the government's slowness to acquire vaccines - so much so that they demanded the resignation of Anutin.  The fault that I was addressing in my post was the decision to vaccinate all Thais before foreigners which was completely wrong headed.   Various embassies had imported vaccines to inoculate their staff but had not provided vaccines for their nationals living in Thailand, leaving that up to the Thai government.  The government did not bear that responsibility In an equitable manner.  Since America at that moment was sending tens of millions of doses to India, I didn't why some of that vaccine couldn't be diverted to Thailand.  Other embassies apparently have not reached out to nationals of other countries with offers of vaccination.   If Canada had demanded that its nationals be vaccinated too in return for their assistance to American diplomats in Iran that probably could have been done.  Fortunately, no American importation of a vaccine was necessary because the Thai Government quickly saw the light and decided to vaccinate everyone regardless of nationality.

I don't know of any other country that proposed to vaccinate only a select nationality in their country, do you?

But there is no emergency, there is also no reason for the Thais to let the US do this. If people from the US want to be vaccinated all they need to do is fly out of Thailand. The same goes for every other country, we can all get back if we want.

 

This is a money thing of expats not wanting to pay for it (i don't either) not a threat of an armed party that we cant fight. Its purely a financial thing something that can be overcome if we want it.

 

I can't imagine any country giving up its own freedoms like that and let the US fly in and take charge. Maybe real third world countries but not Thailand.

[Leaver]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

As I said, I've been making no predictions about the future,

 

But you posted how much better Thailand has handled covid when compared to the USA, and we are only at half time.  

 

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Sure, Thailand may be missing some deaths that are in fact CV related.....  But if people were dying in vast extra numbers in the hinterlands of Thailand, there's be some news of that creeping into all the social media outlets that Thais love to use... And thus far at least, that just hasn't been happening.

 

Perhaps covid is only now just kicking off in Thailand.  

 

All I am simply saying is, it's too early to call a Thailand victory over the USA, but if I did catch covid, and have a severe reaction, along with thousands of others, I know which country I would rather be in.

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Leaver

[DogNo1]

To say that there is no emergency is inaccurate.  Especially for the elderly, COVID is a dreadful disease.  Being vaccinated should be a priority for all elderly people. There should be no need to fly out of the country to be vaccinated.  Would you say that Thai residents of America should be vaccinated only after all American citizens have been?  I didn't think so.

 

No country gives up its freedom when it simply allows medical supplies to be flown in.  Obviously other countries have already been allowed to fly vaccines in for certain groups of their nationals.  The scenario of Ospreys landing on US Embassy grounds was meant to be dramatic, not to be taken literally.

'Whatever the motivation was, the government has now decided to allow the equitable vaccination of people living in Thailand.

[impulse]

8 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

Do you comprehend how limited the Thai testing is?

 

MY BIL in rural Isaan called, said he has never seen a tester nor has anyone else? Folks are scared to death up there, no testing, no nothing.

 

The difference, of course, is that testing positive and asymptomatic (or with minor symptoms) in Florida doesn't consign you to mandatory weeks long quarantine in a 50 square foot space in a gub'ment facility of their choosing.

 

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

The difference, of course, is that testing positive and asymptomatic (or with minor symptoms) in Florida doesn't consign you to mandatory weeks long quarantine in a 50 square foot space in a gub'ment facility of their choosing.

 

 

If infected and quarantined people are not going to be compensated for lost salary,  the whole system here collapses.  

[vandeventer]

On 5/7/2021 at 4:32 AM, digbeth said:

What's stopping you from flyin home?

We can all wait for the vaccine. One country is not more important than another. So remember this is Thailand so the Thais come first not last. So stop panicking for a vaccine that will come in time.

[irishman25]

On 5/6/2021 at 2:39 PM, Brierley said:

So....the Thai's want to vaccinate only the Thai's and the Americans want o vaccinate only the Americans, doesn't anyone have a better plan!

yes i do: write a letter to  Uncle JOE. care of the WHITE HOUSE USA. he promised all Americans by July to be Vaccinated. and you will get them by FED EXPRESS.  

[Brierley]

3 minutes ago, irishman25 said:

yes i do: write a letter to  Uncle JOE. care of the WHITE HOUSE USA. he promised all Americans by July to be Vaccinated. and you will get them by FED EXPRESS.  

Does anyone really expect their home government to actively seek out their citizens in every country around the world to ensure they get vaccinated, if so they are dreaming.