Thais increasingly wary of Covid vaccines, study finds

[Ireland32]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

60 percent of adults in USA have had at least one vaccination. 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-19-vaccine-doses.html

I think usa needs to donate and  get these Chinese vaccine <deleted> off our backs 

[Gabe H Coud]

I'm in Central Thailand in an area where Covid is not the worst. 

 

Since January and the second wave, I've simply asked 20+ Thais "would you have  a vaccination against Covid?"

 

and not one single person has said yes, not one! 

 

So I'm not surprised the % is dropping but I think in reality the majority of Thais(especially outside Bangkok) don't 'want' a vaccine but probably feel they will have no choice.

 

In my discussions, they typically feel they can be OK without a vaccine by following the safety protocols, eating good food and, for some, keeping their faith. 

[CALSinCM]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

The willingness of Thai citizens to be inoculated against Covid-19 has dropped in 2021 despite data showing that the risks are small, and outweighed by the benefits of protection against the potentially fatal virus.

 

The opposition blamed the lack of public trust on the government’s miscommunication.

The issue is that the population is sophisticated enough to be knowledgeable about the adverse side effects of vaccines such as Astrazenaca as well as watching as the health authorities of other countries make recommendations to leadership to halt the use of vaccines with relatively high numbers of adverse reactions as compared to other vaccines, such as the problem with the AZ vaccine worldwide. 
The government then uses high pressure propaganda to counter the adverse reactions and claim that the vaccines, such as AZ, is perfectly safe in the face of statistics to the contrary.  In doing so, the government loses credibility.
To regain credibility the government then completely discounts the databases collecting vaccination adverse reactions and claim that they all are disinformation and fake news and make a blanket claim that all Covid vaccines are perfectly safe for everyone.
This then confuses a lot of people but ultimately will further discredit the government because people already mistrusts their government.
My guess in the end the government will simply mandate vaccinations by imposing criminal charges and imprisonment for those who fail to get their shots.
Most Thais who I know are not excited about either the home manufactured AZ vaccination or the Sinovac vaccine. 
Most are not anti-vaccination.  Most I know simply want a choice of less risky and more effective vaccines present company included.

[CALSinCM]

When experts, medical agencies, and institutions concluded that the benefits of the (Covid) vaccine outweigh any risk they are not speaking for the individuals who ultimately are the only ones who will be responsible for accepting or rejecting such "risk." 
Vaccine manufacturers are globally given a free pass and are not liable for any damages caused by the vaccination.  As such, with the individual forced to accept all risk and all responsibility for adverse or unanticipated reactions - then it is the individual's sole right to accept or reject the vaccination.

If however the risks are so low, then allow individuals who have adverse reactions to claim damages from the vaccine manufacturers.  What a better way to inspire confidence in the vaccines than to have the vaccine manufacturers put their money where their mouth's are.  Given what we are told the numbers are so low that the vaccine manufacturers should be easily able to cover the infinitesimal expense in the form of a minuscule amount of damages to a tiny handful of people - of course if the vaccines are so safe as we are collectively assured. If they are so safe liability should not be waived.  In fact, prove to the population that the vaccines are completely safe by immediately reinstituting liability claims against vaccine manufacturers.  That I guarantee will inspire public confidence in Covid vaccination.  "We stand by our products!"  That's the message the public needs to hear. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by CALSinCM

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, meechai said:

It is not just the Thai's

 

Check countries like USA that even have Pfizer, Moderna & J&J to choose from....See 40-45% have been vaccinated

There are no lines anymore at the many free vac locations

 

 

 

that is of the total population including children

 

Among adults it is 60% for at least 1 dose

 

Naturally lines are gone - there are many more places offering vaccines than before and those highly motivated already received it.

 

it is going tio keep rising but more slowly and will stall at around 70-75% in the US

 

Situation in Thailand is different for many reasons.

[4MyEgo]

3 hours ago, ICELANDMAN said:

 

 More exactly 86% if you don't have any major health problems

 

I have a chronic heart condition, e.g. heart attack a decade ago, have been on meds, no reoccurrence, am over 60, and all of my blood results and blood pressure which are checked annually are all spot on, I am not obese and fairly fit, so am wondering if I am in that high risk category ?

[hugocnx]

6 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Yes they are making it sound as if they died from the vaccines, not dying with the vaccines, there is a clear difference.

 

No vaccines have been tied to the deaths of those who have taken it, it's what it is, but people will hear and see things as they do, self included, just got to sift through it all to get to the bottom of it, the facts, i.e. at the moment, no vaccines have been proven to be associated with the deaths of people taking the vaccines, those who took the vaccine and died shortly thereafter died with the vaccine, not from it.

 

Hope that makes sense ????

 

People who died from or with Covid were all registered as Covid deaths, at least in the West. So now you say that we cannot register vaccine death the same way?

You really believe no one died from any of these Covid experimental injections that you cannot seriously call vaccines?

 

Edited May 19, 2021 by hugocnx

[4MyEgo]

8 minutes ago, hugocnx said:

People who died from or with Covid were all registered as Covid deaths, at least in the West. So now you say that we cannot register vaccine death the same way?

You really believe no one died from any of these Covid experimental injections that you cannot seriously call vaccines?

 

 

What I am saying is, that NO proof so far has suggested that those who died, died from the vaccine.

 

Are you suggesting a mass cover up ?

 

Vaccines had been stopped in their tracks as soon as something came up, be it a death or blood clots and low platelets, however there is still no evidence to suggest that the vaccines are the cause, make of that what you will, but every agency is involved and monitoring these vaccines.

 

There is however a study in Denmark that suggests that the blood clots could be due to the injection being put straight into the blood stream by accident, e.g. no going into the muscle as it is supposed to be, that said, if the person/s administering the injection are not pulling back a little after the needle has gone in, how on earth would they know if they have entered the blood stream with the vaccine, generally speaking a good practice is to pull back on the syringe to make sure no blood enters it and if it does then they would pull out of that spot as they would be in the wrong place.

 

Just saying.

 

Yes there have been deaths, but those people, would have died either way, with or without the vaccine, it's called life's cycle, especially the elderly and until they can pin it down to the vaccine, then no point in speculating of a mass cover up, why else would vaccines be stopped when they see some serious adverse reactions and or deaths, and start them up again when there is the all clear, it's not big pharma or the government doing the investigations, it's your usual professional body, no cover ups yet, sorry to disappoint.

 

I will say, I was on the other side of the fence a little while back, but when you see the results after people being vaccinated, well what can I say, but it's obvious, fear drives us, but I am not all for these "experimental vaccines", and in time will get mine as I have had all the others, albeit not in a situation as this one.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, CALSinCM said:

The issue is that the population is sophisticated enough to be knowledgeable about the adverse side effects of vaccines such as Astrazenaca as well as watching as the health authorities of other countries make recommendations to leadership to halt the use of vaccines with relatively high numbers of adverse reactions as compared to other vaccines, such as the problem with the AZ vaccine worldwide. 

"Sophisticated enough to be knowledgeable...really?" What does sophistication have to do with understanding probability and statistics? 

Rocky road to academic excellence

1. The results of the international 2018 Programme for International Student Assessment (Pisa) examinations organised by the OECD has shown that Thai students are still performing below the international average in three core subjects.

 

According to the evaluations, Thai students underperformed in reading, mathematics and science compared to most countries participating in the evaluation.

The Pisa tests evaluate education systems worldwide by measuring basic skills and knowledge among 15-year-old pupils and their readiness for adult life.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1826134/rocky-road-to-academic-excellence

 

If Thais were truly "sophisticated" about probability and statistics they'd all be registering to get their vaccinations. Instead they heed those who play on their fears. They're hardly alone in that. Same goes for lots of people posting in his forum.

Edited May 19, 2021 by placeholder

[placeholder]

39 minutes ago, hugocnx said:

People who died from or with Covid were all registered as Covid deaths, at least in the West. So now you say that we cannot register vaccine death the same way?

You really believe no one died from any of these Covid experimental injections that you cannot seriously call vaccines?

 

More unfamiliarity with the evidence on display. Excess deaths in most western nations are significantly higher than deaths attributed to covid. Epidemiologists overwhelmingly concur that Covid deaths are being undercounted.

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, Tubulat said:

I mention this a few times before, under normal circumstances, medicines are only allowed on the market after 5 years of testing.

 

 

There is no such rule or norm

 

There are specific processes for development and testing but these do not have time limits.

 

These processes were followed to the letter with the COVID vaccines.

 

Many drugs, and prior vaccines, have gotten from development to market in under 5 years.

 

The main thing that takes time, provided initial development goes well/initial trial results are favorable, is the bureaucratic approval process. And it is these, not the basic research, that were accelerated for COVID vaccines. With good reason.

 

The other thing that helped was massive funding, which allowed parallel clinical trials to take place, something usually not possible.

 

Neither of these in any way skimped on the science. This idea that the vaccine development cut important safety corners is complete nonsense, being spread online by those either badly misinformed or with an ulterior agenda.

 

None of the vaccine development started from scratch, all built on prior work.  Techniques for making inactivated vaccines are very long standing, going back a century. The mRNA technology was researched for some 15 years prior and in fact vaccines using this technology were previously developed for SARs and MERs (which are also corona viruses) , and got as far as pre-clinical trials before interest and funding died out.

 

Viral vector vaccines are also nto new. Some were  already on the market (e.g. Ebola vaccine) and, like mRNA, the  technology had already been employed in earl development of vaccines for SARS and MERS.

 

 

[Sheryl]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

More unfamiliarity with the evidence on display. Excess deaths in most western nations are significantly higher than deaths attributed to covid. Epidemiologists overwhelmingly concur that Covid deaths are being undercounted.

 

The higher rate of excess deaths is not just (and in some cases maybe not even primarily) because COVID deaths are undercounted. It is also because reduced access to health care (due to collapse of the system, services being deferred or canceled, and people being afraid to go to a hospital or clinic) leads to increased deaths from other causes. At the height of the initial outbreak in New York City, hospital admissions for heart attacks and strokes dwindled to near nothing while deaths at home, from all causes, increased 10 fold. There were people dying of COVID at home to be sure, but there were also people dying at home of heart attacks, strokes, etc - often ones that could have been saved. And then there are the delays in things like cancer screening and diagnosis. Unfortunately same thing is taking place now in Thailand.

 

Excess deaths shows the net effect of the COVID crisis, taking all these factors into account as well as things like a decrease in transportation accidents during lockdown.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, CALSinCM said:

The issue is that the population is sophisticated enough to be knowledgeable about the adverse side effects of vaccines such as Astrazenaca as well as watching as the health authorities of other countries make recommendations to leadership to halt the use of vaccines with relatively high numbers of adverse reactions as compared to other vaccines, such as the problem with the AZ vaccine worldwide. 
The government then uses high pressure propaganda to counter the adverse reactions and claim that the vaccines, such as AZ, is perfectly safe in the face of statistics to the contrary. 

 

Adverse reactions to AZ are extremely few.

 

And what the government has said about AZ is that the benefits far outweigh the risks and that serious adverse effects are rare. Both of which are true.

[ICELANDMAN]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

I have a chronic heart condition, e.g. heart attack a decade ago, have been on meds, no reoccurrence, am over 60, and all of my blood results and blood pressure which are checked annually are all spot on, I am not obese and fairly fit, so am wondering if I am in that high risk category ?

From what the medical articles indicate on Covid you should not be at risk but unfortunately from the cases of vaccinated people even if a small percentage of vaccines in Europe cause the so-called cardiac arrhythmia and it is what causes the formation of stones in the blood system, therefore it would seem that those who have had heart problems such as arrhythmia are more at risk of getting vaccines than if they take Covid. But as you know every human body reacts differently, nothing with this Covid can be indicated safely with the new generation vaccines not tested on the guinea pigs but on the whole population, we would probably know it with certainty in two years.

 

[DefaultName]

If the Thais don't want them, offer them to foreigners.

[tifino]

 a smart Thai is a cunning thai... 

 - as smart as a fox, who can smell a trap 

[BestB]

They use to say Teflon thailand , can not help but wonder how will thailand get out of this one when it’s a fark up after fark up and when you think all is ok, yet another fark up

 

look at Pattaya , was supposed to have 40000 vaccines, turned to 30000 to then 20000 to then 0

 

Of course thai are scared , total chaos  in addition to total mess in addition to no assistance from the government or clear plan 

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

Adverse reactions to AZ are extremely few.

 

 

 

What that poster said was "vaccines with relatively high numbers of adverse reactions as compared to other vaccines, such as the problem with the AZ vaccine worldwide".

 

Compared to other vaccines he is absolutely correct.

 

"According to data from the US Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), about 372 out of every million administered doses of the mRNA vaccines lead to a non-serious reaction report." Compare that with AstraZeneca:

 

 "According to UK safety-monitoring system the Yellow Card Scheme, about 4,000 doses out of every million administered lead to adverse reactions."

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00290-x

 

So 4000 adverse reactions in a million with AZ, 372 with ALL MRNA vaccines. 

 

Very clearly AZ does have a high number of adverse reactions compared to other vaccines.

 

 

[Sheryl]

35 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

What that poster said was "vaccines with relatively high numbers of adverse reactions as compared to other vaccines, such as the problem with the AZ vaccine worldwide".

 

Compared to other vaccines he is absolutely correct.

 

"According to data from the US Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), about 372 out of every million administered doses of the mRNA vaccines lead to a non-serious reaction report." Compare that with AstraZeneca:

 

 "According to UK safety-monitoring system the Yellow Card Scheme, about 4,000 doses out of every million administered lead to adverse reactions."

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00290-x

 

So 4000 adverse reactions in a million with AZ, 372 with ALL MRNA vaccines. 

 

Very clearly AZ does have a high number of adverse reactions compared to other vaccines.

 

 

 

they have a higher number but it is misleading to describe .004% as  high

[Logosone]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

 

they have a higher number but it is misleading to describe .004% as  high

 

It's not misleading if he says relative to other vaccines,  but I get what you're saying, you think 0.4% (not .004) is very low in absolute terms. That may be so. But relative to ALL other MRNA vaccines having 0.0372% adverse reactions clearly 0.4% is signficantly higher.

[Donga]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

 

What that poster said was "vaccines with relatively high numbers of adverse reactions as compared to other vaccines, such as the problem with the AZ vaccine worldwide".

 

Compared to other vaccines he is absolutely correct.

 

"According to data from the US Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), about 372 out of every million administered doses of the mRNA vaccines lead to a non-serious reaction report." Compare that with AstraZeneca:

 

 "According to UK safety-monitoring system the Yellow Card Scheme, about 4,000 doses out of every million administered lead to adverse reactions."

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00290-x

 

So 4000 adverse reactions in a million with AZ, 372 with ALL MRNA vaccines. 

 

Very clearly AZ does have a high number of adverse reactions compared to other vaccines.

 

 

If you read the whole article it presents a much different picture.

1. Most of these "adverse reactions" are localised pain, much like a flu shot

2. In both cases they said the data from these studies was lower than they expected, being 80% adverse with mRNA... "This number is lower than would be expected from clinical-trial data, which indicated that at least 80% of people would experience injection-site pain."

and 50% for AZ. "Again, clinical-trial data suggest that a higher frequency is more accurate: around 50% of participants had injection-site pain, headache or fatigue, according to data reported to the European Medicines Agency (EMA)."

Having been vaccinated with AZ and submitted my adverse reaction f/up can imagine all sort of responses depending how the questions is framed and the interpretation as well as pain threshold of the individual.

This article shouldn't worry anyone about adverse reactions with any vaccine.
 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Donga

[Logosone]

8 minutes ago, Donga said:

If you read the whole article it presents a much different picture.

1. Most of these "adverse reactions" are localised pain (measure pain pls) much like a flu shot

2. In both cases they said the data from these studies was lower than they expected, being 80% adverse with mRNA... "This number is lower than would be expected from clinical-trial data, which indicated that at least 80% of people would experience injection-site pain."

and 50% for AZ. "Again, clinical-trial data suggest that a higher frequency is more accurate: around 50% of participants had injection-site pain, headache or fatigue, according to data reported to the European Medicines Agency (EMA)."

Having been vaccinated with AZ and submitted my adverse reaction f/up can imagine all sort of responses depending how the questions is framed and the interpretation as well as pain threshold of the individual.

This article certainly shouldn't worry anyone about adverse reactions with any vaccine.
 

 

I read it but whilst of course they have to record all adverse reactions it's not true that all there was was "localised pain". People have died from cerebral thrombosis after taking Astrazeneca.

 

And if the figuers show that for AZ the likelihood of all adverse reactions is TEN times higher than for ALL mRNA vaccines put TOGETHER then obviously the risk of cerebral thrombosis is a lot higher with AZ than with mRNA vaccines. Of course that risk is still very, very small and unlikely, but my problem is that unlikely things do happen.

 

Winning the lottery is extremely unlikely, 1:95344200 for the Eurojackpot, but guess what, there have been 85 jackpot winners since 2012. It does happen.

 

Yes, cerebral thrombosis is very rare and most people will not get it, but 62 people have after taking AstraZeneca. People have died. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Logosone

[stuandjulie]

I had the Pfizer shots, the 2nd one caused some arm pain and I felt tired for a week, that's all, medically it is still an adverse reaction. AZ tends to be bit more with the 2nd jab, it is a 'traditional' vaccine and the extra reaction (flu symptoms etc.) are actually a good sign as it is the body recognising an issue and fighting it.

 

[Naturesway]

I’m glad to hear that also in thailand even in slower motion but ppl start waking up and start to think by their own what is really going on here. God bless them all who has conscious mind 

[placeholder]

16 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

I read it but whilst of course they have to record all adverse reactions it's not true that all there was was "localised pain". People have died from cerebral thrombosis after taking Astrazeneca.

 

And if the figuers show that for AZ the likelihood of all adverse reactions is TEN times higher than for ALL mRNA vaccines put TOGETHER then obviously the risk of cerebral thrombosis is a lot higher with AZ than with mRNA vaccines. Of course that risk is still very, very small and unlikely, but my problem is that unlikely things do happen.

 

Winning the lottery is extremely unlikely, 1:95344200 for the Eurojackpot, but guess what, there have been 85 jackpot winners since 2012. It does happen.

 

Yes, cerebral thrombosis is very rare and most people will not get it, but 62 people have after taking AstraZeneca. People have died. 

Good thing people haven't died after coming down with Covid...oh wait a minute. But the risk with Covid is much greater than...oh wait a minute...

Edited May 19, 2021 by placeholder

[billd766]

10 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Not surprised at all.

 

This could be a trend for the next election, oh forgot, if they don't like who's in power then they have coup d'état

 

Who would be on which side of the army in another coup?

 

It isn't a problem as the Great Panjandrum will simply promise an election and take 5 years to rig it.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

Adverse reactions to AZ are extremely few.

 

And what the government has said about AZ is that the benefits far outweigh the risks and that serious adverse effects are rare. Both of which are true.

Sherly, It is good to know that somebody here on TVF has a medical background and knows what they are talking about.

 

There are so many conflicting opinions I would far rather trust your judgement than ALL the other "experts" on TVF.

[Nojohndoe]

10 hours ago, cclub75 said:

Really ? How come ?

 

We were told that millions and millions of people went online in a frenzy to "book" their injection ! No ?

 

I guess the only solution is the "Buriram solution".

 

Compulsory vaccination. ????

 

But without enough doses... that will be problematic.

 

Life is unfair.

The  clue to that is  "book" . A systematic way  to  measure and collate at least initial demand.

The "Buriram solution" is actually no solution in terms of actual provision. More likely it is an attempt on a Provincial  level to acquire ,even at nominated numbers ,a slice of a limited  pie.

Can be an approach open to challenge  but if  effective  maybe  actually to community advantage in the  medium term if it can be accepted vaccinations are a way to escape the living  limitations this declared pandemic has inflicted.

 

 

[Kiujunn]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

 

And what the government has said about AZ is that the benefits far outweigh the risks and that serious adverse effects are rare. Both of which are true.

That's a misleading statement 

For young people in low-incidence areas, especially young women,  AZ is much more dangerous than the risk of Covid.

This applies to Isaan girls living in Isaan, among others. 

But the government isn't planning to use AZ for them anyway, so it's a moot point.

They are forced to get Sinovac, like almost everybody else. They are scared like hell. Like almost everybody else who receives Sinovac.

 

I think they exaggerate vastly. But it's easy for us to say Sinovac is fine - you fly to the US and get a good vaccine there.  I will do the same. They don't have this chance. 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Kiujunn said:

That's a misleading statement 

For young people in low-incidence areas, especially young women,  AZ is much more dangerous than the risk of Covid.

This applies to Isaan girls living in Isaan, among others. 

But the government isn't planning to use AZ for them anyway, so it's a moot point.

They are forced to get Sinovac, like almost everybody else. They are scared like hell. Like almost everybody else who receives Sinovac.

 

I think they exaggerate vastly. But it's easy for us to say Sinovac is fine - you fly to the US and get a good vaccine there.  I will do the same. They don't have this chance. 

Maskless in Brazil: Chinese vaccine creates pandemic oasis

SAO PAULO -- Serrana, a town about a four-hour drive from the city of Sao Paulo, seems worlds away from the coronavirus outbreak overwhelming the rest of Brazil.

During a visit to the commuter town of about 45,000 last week, people chatted together cheerfully on benches along a major thoroughfare. No masks were in sight, tha vaccination campaign that has successfully inoculated 97.7% of Serrana's adult residents with a Chinese-made shot and grabbed the attention of coronavirus researchers the world over.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/COVID-vaccines/Maskless-in-Brazil-Chinese-vaccine-creates-pandemic-oasis

 

 

If you follow the link, it gets even scarier