water pump: next to house OR tank?

[STD Warehouse]

The water tank for our house is about 120m away from the house, the tank is raise up 4m but he pressure in the house is pretty bad.

 

The 120m distance from tank area to house is completely flat with no gradient.

 

Would i put the water pump:

 

- on the ground below the tank?

- or next to the house?

- or in the middle equal distance between?

[Artisi]

What diameter pipe from the tank to the house and is there power at the tank? 

[Neeranam]

Why is the tank raised? You shouldn't need that if you have a pump.

[STD Warehouse]

Just now, Artisi said:

What diameter pipe from the tank to the house and is there power at the tank? 

1 inch pipe from tank to house, yes theres power at the tank (theres a well with a pump there that feeds the tank)

[Artisi]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

Why is the tank raised? You shouldn't need that if you have a pump.

He didn't say he has a pump, he's asking where is the best location to site a pump. 

[STD Warehouse]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Why is the tank raised? You shouldn't need that if you have a pump.

Tank been there for 30 years, back when there was not really electricity in this area, so they raised it to get a semi decent flow to the old bungalows that were previously here

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, Artisi said:

He didn't say he has a pump, he's asking where is the best location to site a pump. 

My bad, I thought he had a pump.

[STD Warehouse]

9 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

My bad, I thought he had a pump.

im going to buy a pump as the pressure is feeble in the house taps and shower

[Rookiescot]

 

Running pumps hate being starved. It causes cavitation and overheating. I would put the pump as close to the supply tank as possible.

Also think of the noise.

[IvorBiggun2]

Put an inline pump any where you want as long as you can get an electrical connection to the pump. I put mine under the house.

[IvorBiggun2]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Also think of the noise.

 

You're having a larf. Pumps are not noisy these days.

[Artisi]

Depending on pipe diameter and flow required, a pump at the house 120 metre from the tank could be OK, but then maybe not ????.  

Give a bit more info and I can calculate the losses in the pipe, is it 1" PVC pipe or 1" measured diameter, what is likely maximum flow required, what is the maximum height inside the house of your outlet - for example the shower, 2 metres above entry into the house. 

But if you have power at the tank it might he just as easy to install the pump there. 

 

[Rookiescot]

3 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

 

You're having a larf. Pumps are not noisy these days.

All pumps make a noise when they are running.

If you have a pump that makes no noise then its broken.

[IvorBiggun2]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

If you have a pump that makes no noise then its broken.

 

Now you're definitely havin a larf.

[Kwasaki]

21 minutes ago, STD Warehouse said:

1 inch pipe from tank to house, yes theres power at the tank (theres a well with a pump there that feeds the tank)

I would put the pump at the tank location. 

[STD Warehouse]

11 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Running pumps hate being starved. It causes cavitation and overheating. I would put the pump as close to the supply tank as possible.

Also think of the noise.

yeah, that makes sense, thank you

[IvorBiggun2]

7 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

All pumps make a noise when they are running.

You've obviously never had one of these?    

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

water tank, filter, control panel, pumps best together in dedicated pump room, ideally under house.

whole system should ideally be specified, new, supplied, installed, guaranteed & maintained by specialit pump engineers....... many bargains around now.........

 

[STD Warehouse]

2 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

water tank, filter, control panel, pumps best together in dedicated pump room, ideally under house.

whole system should ideally be specified, new, supplied, installed, guaranteed & maintained by specialit pump engineers....... many bargains around now.........

 

so you disagree with the statement "Running pumps hate being starved. It causes cavitation and overheating."

 

starvation of water would not be a problem even though the tank is 120m away?

[VocalNeal]

At maximum flow rate of 42 litres per minute through 120m of 1 inch pipe you will lose 11m of the 28m pressure the pump generates. So only end up with 17m of head or 24 psi.

 

Domestic water pumps are rated at 9m of suction head. If you add the 4m the tank is raised from the ground plus the height of the water in the tank. You will get more than the 11m you lose in the 120m of pipe. 

 

So my logic says put the pump near the house and get the full 40 psi the pump generates in the house. 

 

The only decision now is how many taps/faucets/floors you have as to which pump you buy. 150W is probably big enough . 200 if that is what the shop has.

http://mitsubishielectricmalaysia.com/products/water-pump/q3/water-pump-specs.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

[STD Warehouse]

7 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

You've obviously never had one of these?    

I think Im just going to get a standard Mitsubishi pump either automatic or constant pressure, haven decided which type yet, they do make a slight noise and would be unpleasant as it would have to go next to the BBQ patio where we eat.

[STD Warehouse]

1 minute ago, VocalNeal said:

At maximum flow rate of 42 litres per minute through 120m or 1 inch pipe you will lose 11m of the 28m of pressure the pump generates. So only end up with 17m of head or 24 psi.

 

Domestic water pumps are rated a 9m of suction head. If you add the 4m the tank is raised from the ground plus the height of the water in the tank. You will get more than the 11m you lose in the 120m of pipe. 

 

So my logic says put the pump near the house and get the full 40 psi the pump generates in the house. 

 

The only decision now is how many taps/faucets you have as to which pump you buy. 

 

 

2 bathroom taps

2 toilets

2 toilet spray guns

1 bathtap

2 showers with cold inlet

2 100L water heaters (for 2 bathrooms)

1 kitchen sink tap

1 dishwasher inlet tap

 

any recommendations of which Mitsubishi pump to buy? they have so many its confusing

[Rookiescot]

OK I had a think about this and after over 20 years of working in chemical factories with storages and delivery pumps I cannot recall a single one which had the pump at the end of the line.

Every one had the pump located as close as possible to the supply tank bottom outlet.

Has to be a reason for that.

[Banana7]

Get the pumps with a stainless steel tank. Place a filter before the pump, and put both near or under the house. See attachment. Get a pump stronger than the minimum for your requirements, so it only has to work at a maximum of 80% of capacity.

 

I had one of those yellow Mitsubishi and the tank rusted. I still have it but I bought a stainless steel tank for it from Lazada.

 

Catalog-Hitachi-XXSeries-2020.pdf

[sandyf]

8 minutes ago, STD Warehouse said:

yeah, that makes sense, thank you

I would take a different view. If your pressure is low from the tank that could be down to partial blockage in the pipeline or too many bends. Coming from the tank and using the same pipeline will detract from the pump output performance. Having the pump close to the house should give best results.

If you don't have a pump already, you need to watch the inlet/outlet size, they are often different. With a one inch feed from the tank you want a pump with a one inch outlet, that may mean a one and a quarter inlet, not a big problem, just step up from the one inch pipe.

 

[Rookiescot]

9 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I would take a different view. If your pressure is low from the tank that could be down to partial blockage in the pipeline or too many bends. Coming from the tank and using the same pipeline will detract from the pump output performance. Having the pump close to the house should give best results.

If you don't have a pump already, you need to watch the inlet/outlet size, they are often different. With a one inch feed from the tank you want a pump with a one inch outlet, that may mean a one and a quarter inlet, not a big problem, just step up from the one inch pipe.

 

 

If the supply on the pump inlet is restricted then its going to cause cavitation which damages the impellor and eventually wrecks the pump.

[STD Warehouse]

seems like theres no common consensus here. some say by the tank, some say by the house.

 

I guess if next to the house,  the pump is being forced to "suck" water from a source 120m away, which seems wrong and they are called pumps not sucks., my 2 cents

[sandyf]

5 minutes ago, STD Warehouse said:

2 bathroom taps

2 toilets

2 toilet spray guns

1 bathtap

2 showers with cold inlet

2 100L water heaters (for 2 bathrooms)

1 kitchen sink tap

1 dishwasher inlet tap

 

any recommendations of which Mitsubishi pump to buy? they have so many its confusing

Personally I would avoid Mitsubishi, I have one and tank corroded after about 18 months and replaced the tank with a stainless steel one. I also have 2 Hitachi, one normal and the other a double jet deep well, Not really had a problem with either other than the pressure switches. The normal one is about 12 years old and the deep well about 9 years. Replaced the pressure switch on the deep well just a few weeks ago.

It is not the number of outlets that count, it is the number that would be expected to run at the same time. I would say that a 250 would be more than adequate.

I have a 200 on the house and that is ok. My sister in law has a 250 which has a noticeable higher pressure.

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, STD Warehouse said:

seems like theres no common consensus here. some say by the tank, some say by the house.

 

I guess if next to the house,  the pump is being forced to "suck" water from a source 120m away, which seems wrong and they are called pumps not sucks., my 2 cents

 

Exactly.

The pump will overcome a partial restriction on the outlet but they hate restrictions on the inlet.

Doesnt matter if its a positive displacement pump or a centrifugal one.

Put it as close to the bottom of the supply tank as possible.

[sandyf]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

If the supply on the pump inlet is restricted then its going to cause cavitation which damages the impellor and eventually wrecks the pump.

If the supply is restricted then that has been the problem all along and would need addressing wherever the pump.

if the pump is near the house he would soon be aware if there was cavitation.