The naming of COVID variants invites another pandemic – of racism

[Bkk Brian]

14 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

 You are mixing 'racism' with 'nationalism' and 'discrimination' and 'racial discrimination'.

Don't believe what the crazy BLM say.

 

 

harmful or unfair things that people say, do, or think based on the belief that their own race makes them more intelligent, good, moral, etc. than people of other races :

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/racism

No just making clear that:

 

"banning foreigners getting in buses is NOT racist, as it includes all colours and ethnicities."

 

Doing this in Thailand most certainly is racism and disputing that just shows you really don't care what the correct definition is.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[Thomas J]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

No, I can't make myself clear to those who evidently refuse to comprehend. I stated that the US has a moral obligation to help to the extent that it can. not to blanket refuse because it can't help everybody. The capacity of the US to accept migrants based on need is quite significant

Well we will agree to disagree.  In my opinion all of the wrongs and injustices in the world do not fall on the USA or any country to try and correct. 

I also totally disagree with somehow if there is true need and the USA should respond that the only answer is to bring those in need into the USA as residents. 

If the USA and the other wealthier countries of the world really want to make an impact globally it is not to rob those other nations of their citizens but rather to invest in those regions to make them a better place to live for everyone in that region not just a select few. 

It is the old adage, give a man a fish and he eats for a day.  Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.  Bring thousands of immigrants to live in your country alleviates their situation however it leaves the millions left behind with exactly the same problem and you face the next generation wave of migrants who also want to escape that same region. What exactly did you accomplish - Nothing. 

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

No just making clear that:

 

"banning foreigners getting in buses is NOT racist, as it includes all colours and ethnicities."

 

That most certainly is racism and disputing that just shows you really don't care what the correct definition is.

Think about this situation. 

 

I am a Thai citizen, yet am a 6'4"  pale Scotsman.

My colleague is from Laos, and looks just like my neighbours in Isarn.

 

I am allowed on the bus and my colleague is refused, due to, as you say, the 'racist' policy. Can't you see what a ridiculous theory that is?

 

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Think about this situation. 

 

I am a Thai citizen, yet am a 6'4"  pale Scotsman.

My colleague is from Laos, and looks just like my neighbours in Isarn.

 

I am allowed on the bus and my colleague is refused, due to, as you say, the 'racist' policy. Can't you see what a ridiculous theory that is?

 

 

 

 

Such an example is an outline case though as there's not many 6'4" Scotsman in Thailand that have Thai nationality. 

 

What I do know that if I had been refused based on my nationality and yet my wife who is Thai is allowed on then yes of course that is racism.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[Blumpie]

I'm happy to have one named Cracker.  ????  

[Thomas J]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Such an example is an outline case though as there's not many 6'4" Scotsman in Thailand that have Thai nationality. 

Such a stereotyping of an ethnic group.  I see many 6'4" in Thailand.  Usually it is one Thai sitting on the shoulders of a second Thai. 

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Such an example is an outline case though as there's not many 6'4" Scotsman in Thailand that have Thai nationality. 

 

What I do know that if I had been refused based on my nationality and yet my wife who is Thai is allowed on then yes of course that is racism.

I give up. It is based on your nationality, you just said it, not your race. 

[tifino]

The CCP were the ones who first called themselves the CCP - and that went viral...

 

 - now, the CCP have backtracked, and call it racist for others to be calling them the CCP; and now demand all us racist foreigners to refer to them as the CPC   

 

So Okaeee  lets from now one 'correctly refer to the Wuhan - as the CPC virus 

 

[ozimoron]

13 minutes ago, tifino said:

So Okaeee  lets from now one 'correctly refer to the Wuhan - as the CPC virus 

 

 

What's the problem with just calling it coronavirus instead of "kung flu" or "wuflu"?

[sezze]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

You may not but other people clearly do. Do you have any objection to naming them using a system which prevents such prejudice?

I cannot speak for other people , but might be somebody is also offended by using these types of names . And why does a diagram have a X and Y axis , its clearly racist vs all others in the alphabet . There is always stupid people around , i've seen more then a few posters around this forum ( not pointing finger at you , just a response to your answer ) . These days , you always offend anyone , people are blaming bats for bringing covid , while these very useful animals do have nothing to do with it ( well yes they did have corona virus , before it jumped species ) .

All is just what it is , i am a farang in Thailand since i got white skin , some people are black , others yellow . Some come from here and there , or are mixed , and yes sometimes something originated from there , and no it isnt always good . You rather point the finger at the stupid people , rather then trying not to offend anyone . That is my opinion , and while i might adapt to the new names ( prob not but ok ) , the same stupid people which the new names are made for will still call it Chinese flu ( because they are so stupid that they call every viral disease flu ) .

ps , i might not have added these last phrase since i prob offend anyone with it , but i found it very good and suitable.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, sezze said:

I cannot speak for other people , but might be somebody is also offended by using these types of names .

 

Not reasonably so, no.

 

1 minute ago, sezze said:

And why does a diagram have a X and Y axis , its clearly racist vs all others in the alphabet.

Not reasonably so.

 

1 minute ago, sezze said:

 

There is always stupid people around , i've seen more then a few posters around this forum ( not pointing finger at you , just a response to your answer ) . These days , you always offend anyone , people are blaming bats for bringing covid , while these very useful animals do have nothing to do with it ( well yes they did have corona virus , before it jumped species ) .

All is just what it is , i am a farang in Thailand since i got white skin , some people are black , others yellow . Some come from here and there , or are mixed , and yes sometimes something originated from there , and no it isnt always good . You rather point the finger at the stupid people , rather then trying not to offend anyone . That is my opinion , and while i might adapt to the new names ( prob not but ok ) , the same stupid people which the new names are made for will still call it Chinese flu ( because they are so stupid that they call every viral disease flu ) .

ps , i might not have added these last phrase since i prob offend anyone with it , but i found it very good and suitable.

 

Nationalism should not be conflated with racism although both are reprehensible. This thread was originally about deliberately misnaming the virus as a means to disparage a nation. In that context, it matters what the virus is named.

[Pla nin]

Viruses mutate until they find a way to survive in their host that's why we have different strains throughout the world except for Thailand of course.  eventually the virus will find a way to survive off of us without killing us much like the common cold of which to this day there is no cure as it constantly mutates to defend itself whilst not killing its host i really don't know what I'm talking about i have been drinking tramp juice all night 

[Pla nin]

People don't care about racism they are landing on our shores because the country they were born in the country that they love can't feed them and their families they don't want to be  in another country they just have too, and i for one welcome them all with open arms

[sezze]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

 

Nationalism should not be conflated with racism although both are reprehensible. This thread was originally about deliberately misnaming the virus as a means to disparage a nation. In that context, it matters what the virus is named.

It never did matter for Ebola , where ever different strain is named after location of outbreak , 1 even got a German town name after a escape in Marburg , all others in Africa , prob thats why it never mattered .

It never mattered for Spanish flu , neither for Mexican , West Nile , ... countless others .

Suddenly it matters , because some idiots like to abuse the virus in order to blame others , while we all know that nobody wanted that disease , they just happen , right time right moment right person ...

 

[Marsupienemi]

I see that the years go by but nothing changes. This forum is always a vent for frustrated foreigners after discovering that tourism and immigration are two completely different things. Everything is good to always criticize everything the Thais do, which is normal since you are geniuses compared to these primates.
So let's not miss this opportunity to make fun of the Thai people with this Covid-19 Thai variant name!
Or, let's try to understand that the country's economy, and particularly that of tourism, is devastated and as the country prepares to reopen its borders, the impact of such a name could have dramatic consequences ...

[JamieM]

47 minutes ago, Marsupienemi said:

particularly that of tourism, is devastated and as the country prepares to reopen its borders, the impact of such a name could have dramatic consequences ...

Did you join TV just to say that? By the way in case you hadn't noticed they were doing a pretty good job of devastating tourism by themselves, long before covid arrived by their behaviour and policies towards westerners, the fact is people were leaving in their droves way before the pandemic.

 

Don't blame the name of the variant, everyone knows xenophobia towards western people has been rife in Thailand for a long time. People were already avoiding coming because of the murder of westerners (among other things) that kept happening on the Islands way before covid appeared.

 

They only want the tourists back now because they are low on cash $$ the tourists know they were only ever tolerated for their money in the first place.

 

Also as already pointed out they have been happy to put UK variant on the front pages of all the national newspapers, so why are they so butthurt now that they have their own variant?

 

They don't mind dishing it out but they can't take it themselves, can they?

 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by JamieM

[KhaoYai]

9 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Not racist at all. If they banned white people, that would have been racist. 

Picky, Picky.  They discriminated against foreigners - that suit you?

 

The message is exactly the same - the sentiment is racist.  Racism by the way, has come to relate to far more than just discriminating between black and white, brown and white or whatever and white.  Disacriminating against someone because they don't fit the 'norm' - be that because of the colour of their skin, their religious beliefs, their sexuality or any other form of difference is no different to racism in essence.

 

Sorry for not fitting your bracket but with respect, that's a very outdated viewpoint. If you insist, let's call in nationalism then.

Edited June 1, 2021 by KhaoYai

[KhaoYai]

I can't work this out - now India are objecting to the name 'Indian Variant'.  These are variants, there will be thousands more, nobody's laying any blame at the door of the country where a mutation was first discovered - its just a name that differentiates if from other strains.  In the UK we have the 'Kent Variant' - sometimes called the 'British Variant'. I'm yet to hear of anyone in the UK getting upset about that.

 

That is not to say that people like Trump calling Covid 19 'The China Virus' wasn't discriminatory - that was an entirely different context and it was obvious what Trump was getting at.

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, JamieM said:

Don't blame the name of the variant, everyone knows xenophobia towards western people has been rife in Thailand for a long time.

 

They don't mind dishing it out but they can't take it themselves, can they?

 

You didn't notice the rampant display of xenophobia exhibited against foreigners by some posters here? Most of whom are not Thai.

[metisdead]

A post with unattributed content that was copy and pasted from some sites has been removed.

 

A post using a trolling image has been removed.

 

Some off topic posts and the replies have been removed. 

 

A post using a foreign language has been removed as this is an English language forum, the reply was removed as well. 

[Marsupienemi]

54 minutes ago, JamieM said:

Did you join TV just to say that? By the way in case you hadn't noticed they were doing a pretty good job of devastating tourism by themselves, long before covid arrived by their behaviour and policies towards westerners, the fact is people were leaving in their droves way before the pandemic.

Very true but nothing to do with the subject which is "why the Thais are trying to disprove this name"

 

 

56 minutes ago, JamieM said:

Don't blame the name of the variant, everyone knows xenophobia towards western people has been rife in Thailand for a long time. People were already avoiding coming because of the murder of westerners (among other things) that kept happening on the Islands way before covid appeared.

I don't blame, I explain the reason why they are trying to avoid this variant name. 

Several things compared to the rest of your paragraph:
I think you are referring to this horrible story that happened on Koh Tao. It is common knowledge that everyone knows who is guilty and that 2 poor Burmese have been accused. Refuting negative DNA tests but accepting confessions made with the help of a little boiling water on the legs. This story makes me throw up.
But we must stop hiding our faces. No, Thailand is not the land of smurfs where everyone is beautiful and kind. You had to be very naive to believe it, right? There are crimes, drugs, corruption, racism ... as in all developing countries.
Racism? yes as in all countries because people are afraid of what is different. And if you take a closer look, you will see that the more visible a foreign community is, the less it is liked (Indians in England, Arabic in France, Turkish in Germany etc.).
If you've traveled a bit, you know racism is ignorance. But wherever you go, you will meet 2 types of people: Those who have traveled and are open to foreigners, those who have not traveled and are more prone to racism. Thailand is no exception to the rule.
But I agree, they have the best Marketing department in the world: The land of smile
And the worst part is that people believed it, as they believed these girls who made them think they were a mix between Brad Pitt and Rocco Siffredi. So now, they come to pour out their frustration and think only of criticizing without even asking the slightest question.
Of course the Thais didn't care about the UK, Brazil or South African variant because it didn't affect them. Should we also blame them for this?

 

1 hour ago, JamieM said:

 

They only want the tourists back now because they are low on cash $$ the tourists know they were only ever tolerated for their money in the first place.

Yes Thais realized (or finally admitted) that tourism is a much bigger part of the economy than they said in the past.
You make a little confusion:
- Tourists and their money have always been welcome
- Immigrants much less

I am not naive about the situation here. But I think we have to stop criticizing anything and everything. That was the purpose of my post.

[sirineou]

12 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

 

Don't recall you posting this when the UK, Brazil aka India strains were being named and spread. 

 

Did you mention it then? 

 

First of all what does that even mean?

  Do you mean to say that because the UK was unjustly maligned in the past  , it is now right for others to be also maligned now?

Is this about me and my alleged failure to condemn  the behavior in the past, or is this about the behavior? 

    Do you agree with what I said now, or do you disagree? if so why?  or do you just want to deflect   and talk about what I might have  or  have not done in the past? 

Edited June 2, 2021 by sirineou

[Fex Bluse]

9 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 

First of all what does that even mean?

  Do you mean to say that because the UK was unjustly maligned in the past  , it is now right for others to be also maligned now?

Is this about me and my alleged failure to condemn  the behavior in the past, or is this about the behavior? 

    Do you agree with what I said now, or do you disagree? if so why?  or do you just want to deflect   and talk about what I might have  or  have not done in the past? 

 

I am trying to ascertain if you have an agenda that is driven more by groups you identify with as opposed to real ethics or other principles of fairness.

 

As for whether I agree with you, I don't fully agree, no. I think it's very useful to tag diseases with their geographic origins or the first places they are discovered as it is VERY useful information to have, particularly at the beginning of a disease outbreak. I also think that this geo tagging/naming should not encourage racism. It does, however, and many factors contribute to this.

 

In the case of this pandemic, it encourages racism against China which is not entirely unwarranted. As someone who lived in China, I can tell you that Chinese society in it's current form would not be found to be friendly by the very large majority of non-Chinese people all over the world. 

 

If China had been transparent from the start and cooperated fully and showed care for the world and did not the opposite and did not use the pandemic to VERY aggressively exploit the world, then there would be very little racism. But, they did what they did and we are here now.

[Gandtee]

8 hours ago, Pla nin said:

Viruses mutate until they find a way to survive in their host that's why we have different strains throughout the world except for Thailand of course.  eventually the virus will find a way to survive off of us without killing us much like the common cold of which to this day there is no cure as it constantly mutates to defend itself whilst not killing its host i really don't know what I'm talking about i have been drinking tramp juice all night 

One of the few sensible posts. Where can I get tramp juice?????

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, Fex Bluse said:

I am trying to ascertain if you have an agenda that is driven more by groups you identify with as opposed to real ethics or other principles of fairness.

I don't have an agenda. At least as far as it applies to  virus naming.

3 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

I think it's very useful to tag diseases with their geographic origins or the first places they are discovered as it is VERY useful information to have, particularly at the beginning of a disease outbreak.

You man that if the virus was named Delta Omega, scientist would not know where it came from, and would not be able to look it up? cusing all short of confusion in their research?

5 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

I also think that this geo tagging/naming should not encourage racism.

Apparently you are not keeping up with the news.

6 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

n the case of this pandemic, it encourages racism against China which is not entirely unwarranted.

You mean racism is warranted under certain conditions ? 

[Fex Bluse]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

I don't have an agenda. At least as far as it applies to  virus naming.

You man that if the virus was named Delta Omega, scientist would not know where it came from, and would not be able to look it up? cusing all short of confusion in their research?

Apparently you are not keeping up with the news.

You mean racism is warranted under certain conditions ? 

 

1. OK

2. Just as important as the scientists are the human populations who will be impacted. It's important for regular people to instantly know where a virus is emerging.

3. I do keep up with the news - mostly from non mainstream sources which means I am probably better informed than someone who focuses on mainstream news media.

4. No, perhaps not racism. But, prejudice, yes.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.   Stick to the topic, please.  

 

[poskat]

21 hours ago, Moonlover said:

I'm slated for a vaccination in early August. My wife, bless her, has to wait until the end of the year. 

 

So much for your theory.

its not a theory.

there have been many threads about different government officials stating its thais first, and also threads about foreigners having their vaccine registrations invalidated

 

richard barrow recently tweeted about it

 

 

 

[sirineou]

56 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

 

1. OK

2. Just as important as the scientists are the human populations who will be impacted. It's important for regular people to instantly know where a virus is emerging.

3. I do keep up with the news - mostly from non mainstream sources which means I am probably better informed than someone who focuses on mainstream news media.

4. No, perhaps not racism. But, prejudice, yes.

You mean there are non mainstream, new sources , more credible than the mainstream sources,  who claim that the rise in Asian hate crimes is Fake news?  Please provide some links,.

  of what value is it to "regular people" to call a virus by a name that identified a particular area? 

[trainman34014]

9 hours ago, Pla nin said:

Viruses mutate until they find a way to survive in their host that's why we have different strains throughout the world except for Thailand of course.  eventually the virus will find a way to survive off of us without killing us much like the common cold of which to this day there is no cure as it constantly mutates to defend itself whilst not killing its host i really don't know what I'm talking about i have been drinking tramp juice all night 

Sorry; but Flu kills a huge amount of people every year !