Covid lockdowns Globally

[thaibeachlovers]

On 6/4/2021 at 8:10 PM, Logosone said:

As the example of Sweden showed, a country where minimal lockdown measures were taken, it still has far less deaths than countries that have had hard lockdowns like the UK.

Florida certainly appears to have fared no worse than states that did lockdown, like California or NY.

[Fromas]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

appears to have fared no worse

 

Data-free.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, Fromas said:

 

Data-free.

 

Which is why I included "appears".

 

[Fromas]

You compare totals.

 

1/ Whether lockdowns (and which measures) worked or did not work for any place (say Calif.) can be seen by tracking rate of new infections and marking against the introduction or removal of such measures so that the base points can be taken into consideration.

 

2/ Flo. "did not lockdown" is false.

 

 

 

[Jeffr2]

2 hours ago, James105 said:

 

Brazil has 2224 deaths per million, whereas Peru has 5688 deaths per million.   Peru's leader was not a "covid denier" and introduced lockdowns harder and faster than most other countries in the world.   Which country in your opinion has had a better outcome?   

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

You're referencing stats that are known to be based on inaccurate numbers?  Peru just admitted to incorrect numbers.  Brazil doesn't care.

 

An interesting read.  The best countries all did lock downs and are still doing them today.

 

https://time.com/5851633/best-global-responses-covid-19/

[James105]

12 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

You're referencing stats that are known to be based on inaccurate numbers?  Peru just admitted to incorrect numbers.  Brazil doesn't care.

 

An interesting read.  The best countries all did lock downs and are still doing them today.

 

https://time.com/5851633/best-global-responses-covid-19/

 

Peru revised their figures upwards based on excess deaths - which really seems like the only realistic way to count.   I'm not sure what your issue is with cold, hard numbers that do not care about ideology or narrative or feelings.   They are simply numbers and are presented as is.   

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

You're referencing stats that are known to be based on inaccurate numbers?  Peru just admitted to incorrect numbers.  Brazil doesn't care.

 

An interesting read.  The best countries all did lock downs and are still doing them today.

 

https://time.com/5851633/best-global-responses-covid-19/

It's too early to tell which countries did "best".

Just having a low corona related death rate does not mean that a country does well in the future, if major problems were created by government policies ie inflation, poverty, unemployment etc.

The world is not just about corona.

[Fromas]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's too early to tell...

Just having a low corona related death rate does not mean...

 

Now what are you claiming?

 

It appears ...   It's too early to tell ...

 

Your basis of comparison shifts depending on how the data fits your conclusion?

 

Since you're smarter than all the major world governments out there, tell what "works" with supportive hard data? What exactly did they miss?

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Fromas

[rabang]

So resuming all this lockdowns work, except when they don't. If they don't work they are not real lockdowns despite some other countries or states having similar or less draconian measures but superior results, in which case it must be a lockdown because it is working. Lockdowns are scientifically proved to be working, except again, when there are conflicting studies, but they are not valid after all. It is all so clear, isn't it?

Edited June 6, 2021 by rabang

[Jeffr2]

16 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's too early to tell which countries did "best".

Just having a low corona related death rate does not mean that a country does well in the future, if major problems were created by government policies ie inflation, poverty, unemployment etc.

The world is not just about corona.

Agree with your post.  But sadly, right now, the world is all about corona.  Nothing else right now really matters.  Everything hinges on getting it under control.

[Jeffr2]

7 hours ago, rabang said:

So resuming all this lockdowns work, except when they don't. If they don't work they are not real lockdowns despite some other countries or states having similar or less draconian measures but superior results, in which case it must be a lockdown because it is working. Lockdowns are scientifically proved to be working, except again, when there are conflicting studies, but they are not valid after all. It is all so clear, isn't it?

Lockdowns do work to help contain the spread of the virus.  No denying that.  Sadly, most countries have not really had true lock downs.  Like here.  I was at Bang Saray beach yesterday and it was 110% packed!  Beer bottles, big crowds of people, etc.  Nary a place to park.

 

So I'm guessing based on this Thailand isn't in lockdown?  Or are we?

[James105]

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Lockdowns do work to help contain the spread of the virus.  No denying that.  Sadly, most countries have not really had true lock downs.  Like here.  I was at Bang Saray beach yesterday and it was 110% packed!  Beer bottles, big crowds of people, etc.  Nary a place to park.

 

So I'm guessing based on this Thailand isn't in lockdown?  Or are we?

 

So you were at the beach and part of the problem then?  If you want lockdowns why didn't you stay indoors and not be part of the problem you identify, which would surely keep you safer, or do you just think lockdowns should apply to "other people" so you can enjoy the beach to yourself?  

 

I personally do not see a problem with you going to a crowded beach and making it more crowded (science says outdoors is safe), but to have the audacity to complain about something that you were part of yourself is quite something.    

[brewsterbudgen]

On 6/6/2021 at 8:32 AM, simon43 said:

Huh?  Are you living on another planet! ????  There was a nationwide lockdown in March 2020 - here's the first Google link that I found about this:

 

https://www.garda.com/crisis24/news-alerts/328526/laos-nationwide-lockdown-imposed-due-to-covid-19-march-30-update-4

 

Everyone was required to stay at home and only go out once per day for food/pharmacy etc.

 

Did you wife and village not know about this - or adhere to these rules?

Obviously didn't reach their village. News travels slowly in the Lao countryside!

[Scott]

Baiting, bickering posts and replies removed.  

 

[Jeffr2]

21 hours ago, James105 said:

 

So you were at the beach and part of the problem then?  If you want lockdowns why didn't you stay indoors and not be part of the problem you identify, which would surely keep you safer, or do you just think lockdowns should apply to "other people" so you can enjoy the beach to yourself?  

 

I personally do not see a problem with you going to a crowded beach and making it more crowded (science says outdoors is safe), but to have the audacity to complain about something that you were part of yourself is quite something.    

Again, I wasn't at the beach.  Don't make assumptions.  And be nice.  Jeez....I was just driving by on the way home.

[Jeffr2]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/09/world/asia/china-covid-lockdown.html

 

China Returns to Its Strict Covid Limits to Fight a New Outbreak

Neighborhoods under strict lockdown. Thousands quarantined. Millions tested in mere days. Overseas arrivals locked up for weeks and sometimes months.

 

China has followed variations of that formula for dealing with the coronavirus for more than a year — and a new outbreak suggests that they could be part of Chinese life for some time to come.

 

China appeared to get the coronavirus under control nearly a year ago. But hundreds of millions of Chinese people remain unvaccinated. New variants of the coronavirus have appeared, and questions remain about whether China’s self-made vaccines can stop them.

[AnnieSeek]

On 6/2/2021 at 3:08 AM, cclub75 said:

 

Lock downs do not work. Sadly, covid believers don't understand this, or don't want to.

 

(always look things into a mirror... it helps to understand by giving another perspective)

 

More seriously, you have no scientific proof whatsoever that lock downs are "working".

 

Look at Australia... An island-continent... borders closed... The virus still manage to find a way. Look at Vietnam.

 

And of course look at all those "lockdown" countries (UK, Europe etc.)... What did they achieve during many months ?

 

Everywhere... nothing... But covid deaths, and Covid infected... plus economic hardship.

 

 This the same Australia that has a handful of cases, and other than a tiny little outbreak of a few cases is a relatively free lifestyle? Compared to say European countries where some were averaging a 120,000 cases a day !

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 6/6/2021 at 8:54 PM, Fromas said:

Since you're smarter than all the major world governments out there, tell what "works" with supportive hard data? What exactly did they miss?

Not hard to be smarter than the average politician, but I digress.

I could tell you what my solution is but if I did so I would be deleted.

I'm sure anyone that has followed my musings over the years would know what it is.

[atpeace]

12 minutes ago, AnnieSeek said:

 This the same Australia that has a handful of cases, and other than a tiny little outbreak of a few cases is a relatively free lifestyle? Compared to say European countries where some were averaging a 120,000 cases a day !

 

 

Good luck with logic? Doesn't go over well with many on this forum.  The person you replied to is beyond even considering he might be wrong in the slightest.  Oddly he  uses Australia to argue how lockdowns don't work?????  This forum is a good study on how how stupid people can be regardless of intelligence. 

 

As for lockdowns. No perfect solution but common sense should prevail until proven otherwise. If you put 10  people in a room with one infectious Covid person for a day, possibly all ten will have Covid by the end of the day.  Now put them in separate rooms. Hmmm....

 

My issue with lockdowns is the cost.  For many it is has been cruel beyond comprehension. Dreams shattered and despair that  crushes me to witness and experiencing it must be like a slow torture with no escape.  I know of no one personally that has died of Covid but many that have lost everything in their eyes"  I think most will be fine 3-5 years down the road but what a terrible experience.  

[thaibeachlovers]

On 6/7/2021 at 11:30 AM, Jeffr2 said:

Agree with your post.  But sadly, right now, the world is all about corona.  Nothing else right now really matters.  Everything hinges on getting it under control.

Disagree. It's all about corona because certain world leaders have decided to make everything about it. Given a referendum I have no doubt lockdowns would not happen. No one asked me if I agreed to a lockdown.

 

Ask people in 20 years if they think we did the right thing, as I reckon it will take that long to understand what happened. That's assuming the next pandemic, or the one after that hasn't ended humanity.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, atpeace said:

I know of no one personally that has died of Covid but many that have lost everything in their eyes"  I think most will be fine 3-5 years down the road but what a terrible experience.  

I agree with most of what you wrote, but I think the result of lockdowns will take decades longer to overcome. Many people never got over the great depression, and I expect similar from lockdowns and inflation caused by over borrowing and printing money.

[placeholder]

13 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Good luck with logic? Doesn't go over well with many on this forum.  The person you replied to is beyond even considering he might be wrong in the slightest.  Oddly he  uses Australia to argue how lockdowns don't work?????  This forum is a good study on how how stupid people can be regardless of intelligence. 

 

As for lockdowns. No perfect solution but common sense should prevail until proven otherwise. If you put 10  people in a room with one infectious Covid person for a day, possibly all ten will have Covid by the end of the day.  Now put them in separate rooms. Hmmm....

 

My issue with lockdowns is the cost.  For many it is has been cruel beyond comprehension. Dreams shattered and despair that  crushes me to witness and experiencing it must be like a slow torture with no escape.  I know of no one personally that has died of Covid but many that have lost everything in their eyes"  I think most will be fine 3-5 years down the road but what a terrible experience.

Do you believe that it's logical irrational to claim that anything less than 100% success rate is a failure? If someone came up with a cure for cancer that was only 99% effective would that also be a failure to your way of thinking?

[atpeace]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Do you believe that it's logical irrational to claim that anything less than 100% success rate is a failure? If someone came up with a cure for cancer that was only 99% effective would that also be a failure to your way of thinking?

No, that would be an incredible success.  IMO lockdowns have also been a success.  There is a middle road with lockdowns but trying to find the perfect solution is usually much worse than an imperfect  solution during a pandemic.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, atpeace said:

No, that would be an incredible success.  IMO lockdowns have also been a success.  There is a middle road with lockdowns but trying to find the perfect solution is usually much worse than an imperfect  solution during a pandemic.

My misunderstanding. Sorry.

[Jeffr2]

27 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Disagree. It's all about corona because certain world leaders have decided to make everything about it. Given a referendum I have no doubt lockdowns would not happen. No one asked me if I agreed to a lockdown.

 

Ask people in 20 years if they think we did the right thing, as I reckon it will take that long to understand what happened. That's assuming the next pandemic, or the one after that hasn't ended humanity.

So you'd ask an uneducated public whether to lockdown or not?  Terrible way to go. 

 

But yes, several world leaders made it all about lockdowns, didn't do them, and their countries paid dearly for this.  Politics at it's worst.

[atpeace]

21 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I agree with most of what you wrote, but I think the result of lockdowns will take decades longer to overcome. Many people never got over the great depression, and I expect similar from lockdowns and inflation caused by over borrowing and printing money.

Maybe but  think inflation will not last decades.  The pain will be brief and painful.  Much like the financial crisis.  It also "seems" the lockdowns have been beneficial in some respects.  People will start going back to offices soon but many will work from home or from places much closer to home.  More family time and we will have to see how it effects productivity.  I really do not have a clue but maybe it will be net plus for world economies. Hmm, probably not.

[atpeace]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

My misunderstanding. Sorry.

no problem amigo and I've never been accused of being a great communicator.

[James105]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

So you'd ask an uneducated public whether to lockdown or not?  Terrible way to go. 

 

But yes, several world leaders made it all about lockdowns, didn't do them, and their countries paid dearly for this.  Politics at it's worst.

 

But yes, several world leaders made it all about lockdowns, did do them, and their countries paid dearly for this.  Politics at it's worst.

 

Peru says hello.   

[Jeffr2]

13 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

But yes, several world leaders made it all about lockdowns, did do them, and their countries paid dearly for this.  Politics at it's worst.

 

Peru says hello.   

Cherry picking a bit are we? Without mentioning why infections are on the rise in Peru? Come on.

 

The US did about the worst. No lockdowns. UK wasn't far behind. Then came the variants.

 

No easy answers here.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Jeffr2

[Ryan754326]

15 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Cherry picking a bit are we? Without mentioning why infections are on the rise in Peru? Come on.

 

The US did about the worst. No lockdowns. UK wasn't far behind. Then came the variants.

 

No easy answers here.

The US didn’t do the worst though, there’s a bunch of countries which had higher per-capita death and case rates, and some of them were wealthy, developed European countries.

This is what I can’t understand: So many people want to blame Donald Trump personally for each and every death that happened in America, but they seem to have very little to say about the leaders of other countries who’s results were just as poor, despite them apparently doing all the right things. This isn’t a defense of Trump’s handling of the pandemic, I’m just pointing out the inconsistency; I haven’t heard anyone hysterically screaming that the leaders of Belgium or Peru have committed genocide.