soil in bags

[huuwi]

Hi all,

I have seen now many people, even on private pick up trucks on the side of the street, shops that sale normaly house hold plastic ware, that they start selling soil in plastic bags, around 5kg. 100.-baht for 5 bags. Are they any good or is this some cheap toxic waste, mean from dumping grounds or so.

Your thoughts.

Thx.

[clivebaxter]

Always have a look at what's inside, a lot of it is little more than coconut husks, leaves and twigs with about 20% soil. You can get good stuff but not as easy as it used to be, bought a lot that just got chucked.

[Adiudon]

I've bought a fair few of these bags of soil for vegetables and plants, it's far better than the red soil around here for growing stuff I have found.

I usually mix it 50/50 with the red soil to make it go further, I get 10 bags for 100B here in Udon.

[huuwi]

4 minutes ago, Adiudon said:

I've bought a fair few of these bags of soil for vegetables and plants, it's far better than the red soil around here for growing stuff I have found.

I usually mix it 50/50 with the red soil to make it go further, I get 10 bags for 100B here in Udon.

haha, so double here on phuket.

[digbeth]

1 hour ago, clivebaxter said:

Always have a look at what's inside, a lot of it is little more than coconut husks, leaves and twigs with about 20% soil. You can get good stuff but not as easy as it used to be, bought a lot that just got chucked.

 

Monkey Pod tree 'Kam Poo' Leaves are good fertilzer and people actually look for that stuff

[djayz]

I've generally found that the nurseries offer better quality soil. 

[kickstart]

5 hours ago, Adiudon said:

I've bought a fair few of these bags of soil for vegetables and plants, it's far better than the red soil around here for growing stuff I have found.

I usually mix it 50/50 with the red soil to make it go further, I get 10 bags for 100B here in Udon.

That is what it is here in Lopburi 10 bags 100 Baht,I have brought some ,for some young plants a bit better than our cow manure  ,worried that could be to strong for young plants.

Some of them may be of dubbers quality but with some  Thai soil being so short in organic matter it has got do something to improve soil organic mater.

[drtreelove]

"Are they any good or is this some cheap toxic waste, mean from dumping grounds or so?"

 

Assume that if you buy the cheapest material, that you are buying sacks of mixed waste sludge from 'dumping grounds', with heavy metals and all.  Unless you know the source or have it analysed. I wouldn't use it blindly for food producing plants, maybe ok for ornamentals.  If that's all you have or have already purchased it, add EM and a 'stable humus product' (humic acid from leonardite, like AgroLig), to neutralize some of the toxicity. 

[huuwi]

10 hours ago, drtreelove said:

"Are they any good or is this some cheap toxic waste, mean from dumping grounds or so?"

 

Assume that if you buy the cheapest material, that you are buying sacks of mixed waste sludge from 'dumping grounds', with heavy metals and all.  Unless you know the source or have it analysed. I wouldn't use it blindly for food producing plants, maybe ok for ornamentals.  If that's all you have or have already purchased it, add EM and a 'stable humus product' (humic acid from leonardite, like AgroLig), to neutralize some of the toxicity. 

 

drtreelove, is this (humic acid from leonardite, like AgroLig) available in garden shops? is there a thai name for it? can you recomment some soil in bags.

thx.

[connda]

I mix the bag soil with sand and native red soil plus aged compost if I have any ready. 

[drtreelove]

12 hours ago, huuwi said:

 

drtreelove, is this (humic acid from leonardite, like AgroLig) available in garden shops? is there a thai name for it? can you recomment some soil in bags.

thx.

https://agrolig-thailand.com/

 

I've been trying for years to find quality potting soil and organic fertilizer materials, but information on ingredients and processing is hard to come by.  Vendors usually don't know much about the product and BS is the norm.  So unfortunately I don't yet have a recommendation for sack potting soil, but Best Garden State is close to launching their organic materials product line on FB, Lazada and website.  I am not directly involved in the product development or sales at this time, but I trust they will have good products. 

 

Its always best to make your own blend, if you have the resources. 

[drtreelove]

4 hours ago, connda said:

I mix the bag soil with sand and native red soil plus aged compost if I have any ready. 

If you have the clayey soil available, and a fine, washed mason's sand, and real compost, then why use the sack soil with unknown ingredients.

 

Make your own potting soil.  Here's a base mix suggestion, there are other recipies online:

 

Base Mix, by volume:

 

12 parts sphagnum peat

4 parts high-quality worm castings

8 parts pumice (or 6 pumice and 2 sharp mason’s sand)

2 parts Calcium bentonite 

1-2 parts high-quality compost (Biodynamic if available)

 

The clay component is usually missing from commercial potting mixes, but in my opinion it is important. Whether your native soil or a purchased sack calcium bentonite, it is essential for nutrient holding capacity, (CEC, cation exchange capacity).  Otherwise some vital nutrients are leached out rapidly with the frequent watering that container plantings usually get. 

https://www.tiannam.com/product/other/bentonite/

 

To this mix, add a mineralized, slow release COF (complete organic fertilizer) like OrganicTotto bokashi, or hopefully the BGS fertilizer blend coming out soon.  And then recharge the containers or raised beds annually with COF, or after each harvest, before the next planting. 

 

Attached is a COF recipe published by Michael Astera, author of The Ideal Soil.

The amounts are for 1000 sq feet = approx 100 sq meters.

BGS will have most of these bulk materials for sale, I hope. 

Michael's 1000sqft mix.docx

[drtreelove]

It is rather expensive to make a quality potting soil, so commercial mixes will cut corners and have a lot of cheap filler material. You can never know or completely trust the quality or amount of listed ingredients in the bagged commercial products. 

 

https://www.planetnatural.com/potting-mix-recipes/

Commercial Mixes

Most commercial potting mixes are the seller’s best attempt to provide for aeration, water retention and nutrients. Of course, not all commercial soils are the same. The old adage “you get what you pay for” can really come into play here. Avoid inexpensive soils that just say “topsoil” or “compost” on the label. That mysterious topsoil may be anything and could very well be old, tired soil that comes from land that’s been farmed to death. Poor topsoil can be completely depleted of nutrients, but rich in nasty chemical pesticides and herbicides, another leftover from life down on the farm. Something merely labeled “compost” could very well be made from toxic sludge (often called biosolids) or just ground up wood chips and nothing else. Play it safe and buy quality organic potting soil.

So what should you look for? “Certified Organic,” that’s what. Beyond that, look for specific ingredients. Don’t buy mystery soil. Remember the old sci/fi classic, Soylent Green? It pays to know the contents of your food or the food of your plants.

[huuwi]

8 hours ago, drtreelove said:

It is rather expensive to make a quality potting soil, so commercial mixes will cut corners and have a lot of cheap filler material. You can never know or completely trust the quality or amount of listed ingredients in the bagged commercial products. 

 

https://www.planetnatural.com/potting-mix-recipes/

Commercial Mixes

Most commercial potting mixes are the seller’s best attempt to provide for aeration, water retention and nutrients. Of course, not all commercial soils are the same. The old adage “you get what you pay for” can really come into play here. Avoid inexpensive soils that just say “topsoil” or “compost” on the label. That mysterious topsoil may be anything and could very well be old, tired soil that comes from land that’s been farmed to death. Poor topsoil can be completely depleted of nutrients, but rich in nasty chemical pesticides and herbicides, another leftover from life down on the farm. Something merely labeled “compost” could very well be made from toxic sludge (often called biosolids) or just ground up wood chips and nothing else. Play it safe and buy quality organic potting soil.

So what should you look for? “Certified Organic,” that’s what. Beyond that, look for specific ingredients. Don’t buy mystery soil. Remember the old sci/fi classic, Soylent Green? It pays to know the contents of your food or the food of your plants.

 

Ok, thats it. lot's of sweat and elbow grease is coming my direction. as you mention earlier, dont use it for vegy or fruit, i have to do it myself, no shortcut. damn clay. rice husk mixed with pig <deleted> is available to losen up the clay. is sawdust a option or will it attrack termites. parts of sand or small gravel? straw?

thx.

[drtreelove]

14 hours ago, huuwi said:

 

Ok, thats it. lot's of sweat and elbow grease is coming my direction. as you mention earlier, dont use it for vegy or fruit, i have to do it myself, no shortcut. damn clay. rice husk mixed with pig <deleted> is available to losen up the clay. is sawdust a option or will it attrack termites. parts of sand or small gravel? straw?

thx.

Rice husks, straw, sawdust or other "raw" cellulose material should not be incorporated into planting soil without aging or preferrably composting first.  Because the decomposition process will draw nutrients away from plant nutrition. .  For organic ingredients, stick with the composted or mined materials, real compost, peat moss, worm castings.  BTW, Termites go to solid wood and not sawdust, as far as I know

[cooked]

On 6/6/2021 at 10:19 PM, drtreelove said:

If you have the clayey soil available, and a fine, washed mason's sand, and real compost, then why use the sack soil with unknown ingredients.

 

Make your own potting soil.  Here's a base mix suggestion, there are other recipies online:

 

Base Mix, by volume:

 

12 parts sphagnum peat

4 parts high-quality worm castings

8 parts pumice (or 6 pumice and 2 sharp mason’s sand)

2 parts Calcium bentonite 

1-2 parts high-quality compost (Biodynamic if available)

 

The clay component is usually missing from commercial potting mixes, but in my opinion it is important. Whether your native soil or a purchased sack calcium bentonite, it is essential for nutrient holding capacity, (CEC, cation exchange capacity).  Otherwise some vital nutrients are leached out rapidly with the frequent watering that container plantings usually get. 

https://www.tiannam.com/product/other/bentonite/

 

To this mix, add a mineralized, slow release COF (complete organic fertilizer) like OrganicTotto bokashi, or hopefully the BGS fertilizer blend coming out soon.  And then recharge the containers or raised beds annually with COF, or after each harvest, before the next planting. 

 

Attached is a COF recipe published by Michael Astera, author of The Ideal Soil.

The amounts are for 1000 sq feet = approx 100 sq meters.

BGS will have most of these bulk materials for sale, I hope. 

Michael's 1000sqft mix.docx 12.49 kB · 1 download

Sorry, I have to say it: this kind of recipe will not be used by anyone in Thailand, too much hustle unless you are planning on manufacturing large quantities of expensive potting soil. I could have googled that myself.

The OP is looking for a good brand of soil in sacks and I don't think you can find this in Thailand.

As far as my experience goes, these soils contain a mixture of dry leaves and street sweepings OR spent mushroom compost. None of it will have been sterilised so you can count on paying for weed seeds or possible soil borne diseases. 

After years of soil improvement I now feel quite at ease taking soil from the garden, maybe adding a little ripe cow manure, and using that as a potting mixture, not perfect but a lot better than when I was buying soil in sacks.

[GreasyFingers]

As @cooked said above you will likely have weed seeds in it, and weeds that are foreign to your area. My wife uses a lot of it for all new plantings and it works well except for the weeds.

[huuwi]

3 hours ago, cooked said:

Sorry, I have to say it: this kind of recipe will not be used by anyone in Thailand, too much hustle unless you are planning on manufacturing large quantities of expensive potting soil. I could have googled that myself.

The OP is looking for a good brand of soil in sacks and I don't think you can find this in Thailand.

As far as my experience goes, these soils contain a mixture of dry leaves and street sweepings OR spent mushroom compost. None of it will have been sterilised so you can count on paying for weed seeds or possible soil borne diseases. 

After years of soil improvement I now feel quite at ease taking soil from the garden, maybe adding a little ripe cow manure, and using that as a potting mixture, not perfect but a lot better than when I was buying soil in sacks.

I did cow poop, but to much gras and weed growing around my lemon trees, that is why i changed to pig poop. The goal for me is to loosen up the clay soil we have. Just where I plant new stuff, to make it easy for the roots to grow. I guess when the plants get older the roots are strong enough to penetrate  the clay.

[seajae]

we buy heaps of it for our plants, we have 2 different ones we get one is 11 baht a bag( various manure/compost, coir mix) and the other is 14 baht a bag, similar mix but it is really good. Most of the 5 or 6 for 100 baht are garbage, sellers purchase it very cheaply and push up their profit margin, usually a lot of clay soil in it as well as general leaf litter, you need them to have an open bag to see for yourself, a handfull squeezed should hold firm but break apart when poked plus it really needs to be black, if it stays firm when poked gently it is clay based, if it doesnt hold together when squeezed its is sand based. I mix it 50/50 with coir chips for potting up plants or putting them in the ground I dig the hole, fill it with coir chips then add a bag of the compast and mix them, works great, I also throw in a hand full of rock phosphate as it promote really good root growth

[huuwi]

13 minutes ago, seajae said:

we buy heaps of it for our plants, we have 2 different ones we get one is 11 baht a bag( various manure/compost, coir mix) and the other is 14 baht a bag, similar mix but it is really good. Most of the 5 or 6 for 100 baht are garbage, sellers purchase it very cheaply and push up their profit margin, usually a lot of clay soil in it as well as general leaf litter, you need them to have an open bag to see for yourself, a handfull squeezed should hold firm but break apart when poked plus it really needs to be black, if it stays firm when poked gently it is clay based, if it doesnt hold together when squeezed its is sand based. I mix it 50/50 with coir chips for potting up plants or putting them in the ground I dig the hole, fill it with coir chips then add a bag of the compast and mix them, works great, I also throw in a hand full of rock phosphate as it promote really good root growth

do you water the coir chips before, or just use them strait away.

[cooked]

20 hours ago, huuwi said:

I did cow poop, but to much gras and weed growing around my lemon trees, that is why i changed to pig poop. The goal for me is to loosen up the clay soil we have. Just where I plant new stuff, to make it easy for the roots to grow. I guess when the plants get older the roots are strong enough to penetrate  the clay.

The problem with adding organic material is that, (and especially in the tropics) is that it rapidly gets consumed, nothing left after a year. 

To loosen clay soil, and I say this after 40 years experience, is to add SAND, which is the opposite of clay, right? It needs to be siliceous sand, which is acidic, not the horrible calcareous stuff that gets hard when it gets wet.

Most sand around here is siliceous, you can test it by adding hydrochloric acid Cleanser Vixol), if it fizzes, it ain't siliceous.

It will mix itself in, no sweat.

[seajae]

21 hours ago, huuwi said:

do you water the coir chips before, or just use them strait away.

we usually do the mix, plant the tree/bush in them then water well, my wife does pre soak the coir chips for some plantings

[IsaanAussie]

A simple visual test if you have gained anything is to compare the soil particle size between your native soil (probably sub-soil fill) with a bed you have added organic matter to, at least a few months after incorporation. Our basic clay soil is very fine, like talcum powder, so dust or concrete in the dry and porridge in the wet.

Whatever you add should promote biology because it is the soil life that sticks the particles into aggregates. If you haven't got larger aggregates, add more "stuff". 

So what can you add that is cheap, comparatively long lasting and "clean"? Probably the most reliable is CRH (carbonised rice husk). I used to make my own but now it is available for about 500 baht a ton, or 2000 baht for a high sided 6 wheeler load. The CRH is the carbon source and has some liming effect. 

Of the lime options I use dolomite as it adds both magnesium and calcium. 

Key is water whether you are "composting" soil or growing plants. You will not promote biological activity without maintaining moisture levels be it in a compost pile or right in the bed. 

 

Edit: Back on topic. I have used many different bags of potting mix here. Some have been OK, most rubbish, allways inconsistent. I look at them as anaerobic incubators "Sealed sweaty armpit" plastic bags . I make aerobic composts and prefer things that need to breathe.

Edited June 9, 2021 by IsaanAussie

[huuwi]

15 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

A simple visual test if you have gained anything is to compare the soil particle size between your native soil (probably sub-soil fill) with a bed you have added organic matter to, at least a few months after incorporation. Our basic clay soil is very fine, like talcum powder, so dust or concrete in the dry and porridge in the wet.

Whatever you add should promote biology because it is the soil life that sticks the particles into aggregates. If you haven't got larger aggregates, add more "stuff". 

So what can you add that is cheap, comparatively long lasting and "clean"? Probably the most reliable is CRH (carbonised rice husk). I used to make my own but now it is available for about 500 baht a ton, or 2000 baht for a high sided 6 wheeler load. The CRH is the carbon source and has some liming effect. 

Of the lime options I use dolomite as it adds both magnesium and calcium. 

Key is water whether you are "composting" soil or growing plants. You will not promote biological activity without maintaining moisture levels be it in a compost pile or right in the bed. 

 

Edit: Back on topic. I have used many different bags of potting mix here. Some have been OK, most rubbish, allways inconsistent. I look at them as anaerobic incubators "Sealed sweaty armpit" plastic bags . I make aerobic composts and prefer things that need to breathe.

When our clay is wet, my shoes are in the size of 23 and weigh around 200kg after i walk from one end to the other.

Around our area (trang) most of the rice harvest is private and the rice husk is used by the guys who clean the rice, so no chance for me to get a big truck load. I will have a look around to find some rice husk, but no high hopes to find this big amount. Have to send the missus on a mission.

[farmerjo]

16 minutes ago, huuwi said:

When our clay is wet, my shoes are in the size of 23 and weigh around 200kg after i walk from one end to the other.

Get some gypsum and apply to the clay.

 

[IsaanAussie]

22 minutes ago, huuwi said:

When our clay is wet, my shoes are in the size of 23 and weigh around 200kg after i walk from one end to the other.

Around our area (trang) most of the rice harvest is private and the rice husk is used by the guys who clean the rice, so no chance for me to get a big truck load. I will have a look around to find some rice husk, but no high hopes to find this big amount. Have to send the missus on a mission.

Most of the CRH sold is produced by rice milling companies that burn the hulls to produce electricity for their mills. Around here it is a waste product that the mill gives away to anyone prepared to come collect it.

Try looking in the Facebook Marketplace entries in your area, usually under garden supplies.

Another source is to produce it yourself if you can get a load of hulls from a small village rice mill. I used to get mine this way. The process is simple pyrolysis burning in a pile. 

[kickstart]

23 hours ago, huuwi said:

When our clay is wet, my shoes are in the size of 23 and weigh around 200kg after i walk from one end to the other.

Around our area (trang) most of the rice harvest is private and the rice husk is used by the guys who clean the rice, so no chance for me to get a big truck load. I will have a look around to find some rice husk, but no high hopes to find this big amount. Have to send the missus on a mission.

A lot of rice husks are used by broiler farmers for their  units ,if you have any poultry farms in your area ask them for the supplier ,if they are a big company farm you may have to go they head office .

[huuwi]

hi, yes i am borred sh..less. i have planted some dragon fruit in the soil i bought, not forever just till i can move them to trang. results are different, maybe because of different plants, red and yellow dragons. the yellow once doing quiet good, the red once are very slow, and not dying. just did a little observation......my chickens do not touch the soil and you can believe me they dig every where. that maybe is the best indicator that this kind of soil is bad, or what.