Will you wait for one of the Mrna vaccines such as Pfizer or Moderna or take what is available including Sinovac?

[ifmu]

I will take ANY shot i can get  ... THEN i will reinforce it with anything else i can get

 

 

[Letseng]

On 6/21/2021 at 11:37 AM, steve187 said:

i'm with you on this one, been waiting a long time so what's a bit more of a wait to get the better jab in my opinion

I would take what is available now. When mRNA arrives you can top up with a shot. Some EU countries give 1 Astra, then 2nd  use mRNA. At least you have some protection against serious illness. Remember, no vaccine protects 100%.

[couchpotato]

From my original intervac.com appt made 2 weeks ago, I have just received my approval email from OICDCC confirming my AZ shot this Thursday.

I believe the 2nd shot will be early September, but "if" Moderna/pfizer is miraculously available around that period, then I will try to have that as my 2nd shot (even if its a paid shot), if not then 2nd shot will be AZ.

Who knows what will happen in 3 mths or so.

[shdmn]

5 hours ago, Greenwich Boy said:

Full disclosure. I have just returned to Thailand and have 2 Pfizer jabs from home in England.

I have no medical expertise or knowledge but from what I read the vaccines available here provide protection against severe illness and death. Surely this is the important bit.

Just my opinion but take whatever is offered then top up with your preferred jab when available.

Yes, take whatever you can get.  You can always get an mRNA shot later on when it's more readily available.

 

I can't imagine the sense of regret someone must have by refusing to get vaccinated when they had the chance as they are getting an intubation tube shoved down their throat.  Possibly the last thought they ever have.  I would crawl over broken glass and do everything possible to avoid that possibility.

Edited June 22, 2021 by shdmn

[Thomas J]

26 minutes ago, Letseng said:

I would take what is available now. When mRNA arrives you can top up with a shot. Some EU countries give 1 Astra, then 2nd  use mRNA. At least you have some protection against serious illness. Remember, no vaccine protects 100%.

Well with any vaccine particularly one that has not been tested there is a risk of side effects.  I don't know if having two different vaccines would be an enhancement to the person or if the two vaccines might conflict with each other and create potential worse side effects. 

If it enhances protection than yes by all means.  Take what is available and top up later.  However I think I will wait for a few other people to be the early adopters of that practice before I care to do it myself. 

[Jajazazajaja]

6 hours ago, pseudorabies said:

Maybe.  For me it depends on the risk I'm exposed to on a day-to-day basis.  If frequency of infection goes up enough such that my risk goes up signficantly I might consider the Chinese vaccine. Might.

 

My concern right now is that the Chinese vaccine won't afford much protection against the more serious variants, especially Delta.  The mRNA vaccines seem like they do.  If I was to get sinovac now could I get Pfizer/Moderna later?  If so would the immune response be the same, i.e. would I get the same level of variant protection had I skipped the chinese vaccine and waited for the mRNA vaccine (assuming the Thai government ever allows them in)?  Before automatically answering "Well, yes, of course!" google "antigenic original sin".  If the chinese vaccine induces a mediocre response targeting less than optimum eptitopes, further stimulation with a superior vaccine might just induce more of the same.  Or not.  No one knows yet. 

 

So right now I'm waiting.

let me get this straight 

 

you don’t know how effective the available vaccine is against some variants, therefore you are going to take no vaccine at all?

 

i mean, seriously?

 

just think about that. 
 

 

[shdmn]

26 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

Well with any vaccine particularly one that has not been tested there is a risk of side effects.  I don't know if having two different vaccines would be an enhancement to the person or if the two vaccines might conflict with each other and create potential worse side effects. 

If it enhances protection than yes by all means.  Take what is available and top up later.  However I think I will wait for a few other people to be the early adopters of that practice before I care to do it myself. 

Over billion people have been vaccinated with Sinovac + Sinopharm.  Pfizer  + Moderna is probably around there as well and you still think you need to wait and see till "a few other people" get it???

 

What you are really saying is that you will NEVER trust them.

Edited June 22, 2021 by shdmn

[Thomas J]

21 minutes ago, shdmn said:

What you are really saying is that you will NEVER trust them.

What I am saying is that I would be cautious.  Even vaccines that have been tested for years have side effects.  These were rushed into emergency use.  No one really knows the effects of those particularly long term effects.  I will get one of the vaccines either Pfizer or Moderna.  I might even long term opt for a dose of a second vaccine such as Astra Zeneca or Johnson & Johnson if it is shown that doubling with two different vaccines is beneficial and does not have adverse effects from mixing two completely different technologies.  However, with the latter, I would prefer to let someone else be the first test subjects trying the multiple vaccine regimen rather than me. 

[shdmn]

22 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

What I am saying is that I would be cautious.  Even vaccines that have been tested for years have side effects.  These were rushed into emergency use.  No one really knows the effects of those particularly long term effects.  I will get one of the vaccines either Pfizer or Moderna.  I might even long term opt for a dose of a second vaccine such as Astra Zeneca or Johnson & Johnson if it is shown that doubling with two different vaccines is beneficial and does not have adverse effects from mixing two completely different technologies.  However, with the latter, I would prefer to let someone else be the first test subjects trying the multiple vaccine regimen rather than me. 

So if 2 billion vaccines adminstered is still not enough how many will be?  4 billion? 7 billion?  If vaccines take years before you think they will be safe how many more years will you wait?  5, 10, 20?

 

What you are really saying is that you will roll the dice and never get a shot unless you have to.

Edited June 22, 2021 by shdmn

[Jajazazajaja]

27 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

What I am saying is that I would be cautious.  Even vaccines that have been tested for years have side effects.  These were rushed into emergency use.  No one really knows the effects of those particularly long term effects.  I will get one of the vaccines either Pfizer or Moderna.  I might even long term opt for a dose of a second vaccine such as Astra Zeneca or Johnson & Johnson if it is shown that doubling with two different vaccines is beneficial and does not have adverse effects from mixing two completely different technologies.  However, with the latter, I would prefer to let someone else be the first test subjects trying the multiple vaccine regimen rather than me. 

good god, this vaccine shopping is ridiculous 

 

Why can’t people just leave it to the experts?

[srowndedbyh2o]

On 6/20/2021 at 11:37 PM, steve187 said:

...been waiting a long time so what's a bit more of a wait...

The longer you wait, the more you increase your chance of exposure to covid. You may get covid and be one of those that have mild symptoms for a few days, or you may be one of those that die. Up to you.

[unblocktheplanet]

My son is a senior research scientist at J&J. He advises take the first vax you can get so you can mitigate Covid. Then you can get a more effective one when it becomes available.

[pseudorabies]

11 hours ago, Jajazazajaja said:

let me get this straight 

 

you don’t know how effective the available vaccine is against some variants, therefore you are going to take no vaccine at all?

 

i mean, seriously?

 

just think about that. 
 

 

Right now risk is low for me.  Why should I take on unnecessary risk with a vaccine that could leave me with little to no protection from future variants that are much more virulent?  That could leave me with an immune system that cannot respond? To me that makes little sense.

 

Look at what happened to patients who first took Merck's first generation HPV vaccine and then followed with their second generation vaccine which added several proteins from several more variants.  They saw far, far less of a response to the new variant proteins compared to people who only received the second generation vaccine.  The thinking is that the first vaccine sent these patient's immune systems down evolutionary rabbit holes and that the response to the new vaccine is restricted to these same lineages.

 

I understand how some people love mantras like "just take the vaccine!" or "the best vaccine is the one that is available to you now!"

Thinking that the second most complicated organ system in our bodies is going to adhere to such maxims for me is too simplistic. 

 

You do what you want and I'll do what I want.

[placeholder]

17 minutes ago, pseudorabies said:

Look at what happened to patients who first took Merck's first generation HPV vaccine and then followed with their second generation vaccine which added several proteins from several more variants.  They saw far, far less of a response to the new variant proteins compared to people who only received the second generation vaccine.  The thinking is that the first vaccine sent these patient's immune systems down evolutionary rabbit holes and that the response to the new vaccine is restricted to these same lineages.

You got a link for that? I could find nothing to support the claim that the 9HPV vaccine had its effectiveness lessened in those who were inoculated with the 2HPV vaccine.

[Heng]

Ended up not waiting.  Sister in law badgered me into getting jabbed yesterday evening due to some fortunate excess supply available for extended family members of court officers.   Showed up to the local government hospital at 9am, presented Thai ID card, blood pressure checked, no temperature check?, waited about 15 minutes with queue card in hand, AZ jabbed (although I didn't see any AZ vials as it's a different station of nurses who mass prepped the needles... would have felt a bit better if I could see the fresh needle coming out of its package like you do in private hospitals... but anyway it's AZ in the app data and will hope for the best needle safety wise), waited the required 30 while a few nurses hovered/advised us to install the MorProm app, and the information showed up on the MorProm app immediately.   All outdoors in a field tent type set up with no air con, but they had a bunch of factory fans set up so it wasn't too bad.   Gotta say the nurse had a really soft touch despite no doubt being much more tired (probably more practiced due to volume of patients) than my most recent flu shot at Bangkok Hospital.   Really happy with my first government hospital experience ever.

 

Next dose scheduled for September 15... although presumably will be able to go in earlier than that if supplies are available.     

 

...another nurse advised that after the 2nd dose, one simply clicks on the Covid Vaccine Certificate tab in the MorProm app, display that image at one of the Covid Passport centres (she said there's one at Suvarnabhumi), and you can get your Covid Passport (physical version) there for 50 Baht.  

Edited June 23, 2021 by Heng
more app info

[Thomas J]

14 hours ago, shdmn said:

What you are really saying is that you will roll the dice and never get a shot unless you have to.

No I will get a shot of Pfizer or Moderna as soon as they are available. I might even later opt for a top up with Astra Zeneca if it is shown to provide additional benefit with two different vaccines. However if I am going to take a vaccine I don’t want the first one to be a vaccine with the lowest rate of effectiveness 

[Jajazazajaja]

1 hour ago, Thomas J said:

No I will get a shot of Pfizer or Moderna as soon as they are available. I might even later opt for a top up with Astra Zeneca if it is shown to provide additional benefit with two different vaccines. However if I am going to take a vaccine I don’t want the first one to be a vaccine with the lowest rate of effectiveness 

 

why not take your doctors advice, as you would with all other medical matters?

 

you are not remotely qualified to make judgements on this 

[placnx]

6 hours ago, pseudorabies said:

Right now risk is low for me.  Why should I take on unnecessary risk with a vaccine that could leave me with little to no protection from future variants that are much more virulent?  That could leave me with an immune system that cannot respond? To me that makes little sense.

 

Look at what happened to patients who first took Merck's first generation HPV vaccine and then followed with their second generation vaccine which added several proteins from several more variants.  They saw far, far less of a response to the new variant proteins compared to people who only received the second generation vaccine.  The thinking is that the first vaccine sent these patient's immune systems down evolutionary rabbit holes and that the response to the new vaccine is restricted to these same lineages.

 

I understand how some people love mantras like "just take the vaccine!" or "the best vaccine is the one that is available to you now!"

Thinking that the second most complicated organ system in our bodies is going to adhere to such maxims for me is too simplistic. 

 

You do what you want and I'll do what I want.

Was that Merck HPV vaccine a vector vaccine (like AZ, J&J)? That could explain the problem, when the immune system recognizes the vector virus and destroys.

[pseudorabies]

50 minutes ago, placnx said:

Was that Merck HPV vaccine a vector vaccine (like AZ, J&J)? That could explain the problem, when the immune system recognizes the vector virus and destroys.

Purified recombinant proteins. This is not at all exclusive to one particular set of antigens or disease. The idea of Original Antigenic Sin goes back to the 60s. What's been observed for HPV and other vaccines fits in with what is known about B-cells, memory B's and the process of affinity maturation. While looking for the article on Guardasil (I was working from memory) I found one paper where the authors also express concern that OAS could affect how the vaccinated respond to future COVID variants. 

 

The paper on Guardasil gen 1 quad vs  2 nonavalent - https://www.nature.com/articles/nm0615-540

 

Also there's data that showed that those vaccinated with Gen 1 had a higher incidence of infection by other HPV strains whose L1 capsid proteins were not included in Gen 1 compared with unvaccinated patients - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26376014/

[placnx]

2 hours ago, pseudorabies said:

Purified recombinant proteins. This is not at all exclusive to one particular set of antigens or disease. The idea of Original Antigenic Sin goes back to the 60s. What's been observed for HPV and other vaccines fits in with what is known about B-cells, memory B's and the process of affinity maturation. While looking for the article on Guardasil (I was working from memory) I found one paper where the authors also express concern that OAS could affect how the vaccinated respond to future COVID variants. 

 

The paper on Guardasil gen 1 quad vs  2 nonavalent - https://www.nature.com/articles/nm0615-540

 

Also there's data that showed that those vaccinated with Gen 1 had a higher incidence of infection by other HPV strains whose L1 capsid proteins were not included in Gen 1 compared with unvaccinated patients - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26376014/

I couldn't access the Nature article. In the other article it seems to be a case of selective pressure, which is something to be concerned about with the sino vaccines, BTW. This is all different from the case of the immune system disabling further injections of a viral vector vaccine (AZ, J&J). 

[placeholder]

wikipedia offers a good explanation of it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_antigenic_sin

[rabas]

I too could not access the Nature articles, which are news articles not research publications.

 

Below is a recent article relevant to SARS-2 and OAS. It appears to be partly speculative similar to early concerns about SARS-2 and ADE. ADE was considered during vaccine development and there have been no signs of it so far.

“Original antigenic sin”: A potential threat beyond the development of booster vaccination against novel SARS-CoV-2 variants

 

They discuss why it needs considering and reference an ongoing US NIH trial of a Moderna booster for the South African variant. This trial was designed to look for potential OAS.

 

This is not a scary issue. It's a good example of how global science and development work. But it might become relevant to the long war against the Wuhan SARS-2 pandemic.  Is China considering such deep issues in its vaccine development?

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by rabas

[Denim]

On 6/22/2021 at 3:57 PM, ballpoint said:

Am I the only one here who couldn't really give a damn whether I'm vaccinated this year or not?  I'm not anti vax, quite the opposite, and will take whatever is offered, when it is offered, just won't be pushing my way to the front of the queue, or running around in circles in panic, like some here seem determined to do and are currently doing.  

 

Same here but I can understand why some people are panicking.

 

I live on the edge of a rural village of 6000.  I have social distanced since I got here 6 years ago. Wife has recently stopped seeing all her friends as she is concerned not to infect her 90 year old mother next door. Our only point of danger is weekly shop to out local Big C . I go alone at 10.00 am and get supplies for a week. 

 

We are not anti vax but are not worried by having to wait . We will get a vaccine when one comes along and does not involve a lot of queing.

 

If we lived or even worse , worked , in Bangkok or another large city then we would be a lot more concerned and get whatever was available as soon as we could.

 

Different risks for different people.

[Rinrada]

Khun Wife is adamant that she will only have a Moderna...PZ or JJ...whereas I am not too bothered. However since Sinovac is not approved in EU....could change..then on this occasion if offered needs to be AZ.... Also have to get my next "O" extension dealt with in August so no big hurry...

[ScotlandtheBrave]

So now we hear that the hoped for 10 million doses of Moderna which might have arrived in October sometime will now be 5 million if we are lucky. Sigh. Yes I would take any vaccine I could get, but in Pattaya there is no access to anything for the "smelly farang".