Leading Chula professor criticizes government’s Sinovac obsession

[gearbox]

31 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Proof if the pudding will be in the coming months if certain people start being hospitalised with only certain vaccines

No need to wait for months, look at UK now.

In other news looks like AZ will be dumped in Australia from October:

 

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australia-likely-won-t-use-astrazeneca-after-october-except-by-request-20210623-p583n6.html

 

 

[Thomas J]

Three contractors are bidding to fix a section of highway outside of Bangkok. One is from Chaing Mai , another is from Chonburi  and the third, is former government official from Bangkok .

All three go with the committee awarding the contract to examine the section of road to be repaired and replaced.  The Chaing Mai  contractor takes soil samples, and gets the specifics of the materials to be used and the depth of the road. He enters his laptop computer the measurements for the amount of material to be used, and calculates the number of man hours required.  He gives a quote of 270 million baht.  When asked how he arrived at that figure he said materials should could about 150 million baht, labor about 80 million baht and he would make a profit of 40 million baht.

The second bidder from Chonburi takes out a laser and measures sections of the road.  He too then ends of with entering figures into his smart phone.  After a few minutes he said his bid is 230 million baht.  When asked how he arrived at that figure he said I am estimating I can buy cheaper materials for 100 million baht, get cheaper workers for only 90 million baht and a 40 million dollar baht profit

The last bidder the former government official does not examine the road he just submits a bid of $1 billion baht.  The shocked committee says you did not even look at the road, How is it possible that you came up with that bid, and why is it so high.  He said easy.  I get the job, you pay me a billion baht.  I give back to you 400 million baht, I keep 370 million baht and use the remaining 230 million baht to hire the second bidder using inferior materials and labor so we get to do this again in 5 years when the road deteriorates. 

The contract was awarded on the spot to bidder number 3 and that ladies and gentlemen is how government procurement works

Are there any further questions on why there is no Pfizer, Moderna or Johnson & Johnson vaccines

Edited June 23, 2021 by Thomas J

[ThailandRyan]

32 minutes ago, Jajazazajaja said:

 

did you even read the article?

 

According to the WHO, which recently granted both vaccines “Emergency Use Listings”, Sinovac’s vaccine efficacy stands at 51% against symptomatic disease and 100% against severe disease.

 

100% is not bad, is it?

That's agai st theiriginal variant. Nothing in that study dealt with the variants we see now.  Try again.

[shdmn]

6 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

That's agai st theiriginal variant. Nothing in that study dealt with the variants we see now.  Try again.

It's all variants.  Same as all the other vaccines.  Also, the 90+ efficacy you keep reading about with the mRNA vaccines does not include variants because the studies were done before that.   It's kind of a sneaky sleight of hand the mRNA vaccine manufacturers are doing with the numbers. 

 

Nobody seems to know what the efficacy is with the delta and the mRNA vaccines and that is intentional.  They just say it is effective which means you won't get really sick and be hospitalized. However, all the vaccines are effective at doing that including the Chinese ones.

Edited June 23, 2021 by shdmn

[nausea]

3 minutes ago, josthomz said:

And when I arrived at the vaccination center the queue for the AstraZeneca booth was huge, while there was barely anyone queuing for Sinovac,

Duh?

[pseudorabies]

10 minutes ago, Jajazazajaja said:

 

If we can 100% eliminate severe COVID then this pandemic is over

The data suggests that the virus is still causing infection and replicating in those who have received the Sinovac vaccine and happens much less frequently if at all in those who have received the mRNA vaccines. This is especially true if the data from Seychelles, Bahrain, Chile etc is to be believed - that vaccinated people might not be dying but are sick and likely passing the virus on to others. 

 

Viruses love shoddy selection such as this. In an unvaccinated person a mutation that confers vaccine resistance is random at first. Selection occurs when a mutated virus infects a vaccinated person. In someone who is vaccinated with a vaccine that still allows replication, resistance selection occurs within that individual and will be orders of magnitude faster. I'm afraid that the Chinese vaccine offers the virus that opportunity. I'm also afraid that it could yield mutants that lower the efficacy of the mRNA vaccines to that we currently see for the Chinese vaccines. And then the process repeats itself.

 

This is what viruses do.

[kennw]

10 hours ago, Thailand said:

Probably because Sinovac is the best option. Could not possibly be anything else.

You mean ONLY option

[ThaiFelix]

9 hours ago, Salerno said:

 

He?

 

 

You can never be 100% certain in Thailand 55555!

[ThaiFelix]

1 hour ago, Jajazazajaja said:

 

poor quality? Well the WHO disagreed 

 

According to the WHO, which recently granted both vaccines “Emergency Use Listings”, Sinovac’s vaccine efficacy stands at 51% against symptomatic disease and 100% against severe disease.

 

If we can 100% eliminate severe COVID then this pandemic is over

 

do you understand?

I think its you who doesnt understand whats going on here.........its not about the Sinovac vaccine, its about the fact its Chinese made so it will never be any good according to some.  But at least the Muslims and N,Koreans are getting a break.

[bangon04]

6 hours ago, John Drake said:

 

Or more likely receive a research endowment from CP.

Do you mean a research endowment from Siam Biosciences?

[DBath]

6 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Sinovac is popular with the developing countries because it is the cheapest of the other available vaccines. Don't understand the rationale behind the professor criticism. 

From an earlier post by @mtls2005:

Sinovac 8.1 MM doses, 5.059 Billion baht

AZ 26 MM doses, 5.287 Billion baht

 

from government budget presentation
 

Hence: how can you claim it’s cheapest?

[DBath]

5 hours ago, JamieM said:

It's called vaccine diplomacy the Chinese are trying to use the vaccine to gain power over other countries.

 

Sadly for them their vaccine is of poor quality.

Spot on. 

[friendofthai]

This professor is a politician actually, not a medical specialist:
https://www.research.chula.ac.th/researcher-/siripan-nogsuan-sawasdee/
So she has made a political statement, not medical one. I would rather allow a gynecologist to treat my teeth than allow such a politician to tell me what vaccine to choose.

Edited June 23, 2021 by friendofthai

[Cali farong]

Thailand could have signed up for Covax program and received 

free donated vaccine from other countries but that would have

made China very unhappy with Uncle.  All Thai people I know 

think this leader is not good for people 

 

[DBath]

3 hours ago, JamieM said:

I understand that the WHO organisations word is not to be trusted, nor in the best interests of the Thai people.

 

NEVER FORGET

WHO were the ones deliberately misleading people (to steal an earlier phrase used by @Jajazazajaja).

[DBath]

3 hours ago, Jajazazajaja said:

 

poor quality? Well the WHO disagreed 

 

According to the WHO, which recently granted both vaccines “Emergency Use Listings”, Sinovac’s vaccine efficacy stands at 51% against symptomatic disease and 100% against severe disease.

 

If we can 100% eliminate severe COVID then this pandemic is over

 

do you understand?

“The WHO EUL’s for those two vaccines were unique in that unlike the Pfizer, AstraZeneca, Moderna, and Jonhson & Johonson vaccines that it had also approved, neither had undergone review and approval by a strict national or regional regulatory authority such as the US Food and Drug Administration or the European Medicines Agency. Nor have Phase 3 results of the Sinopharm and Sinovac trials been published in a peer-reviewed medical journal.”

 

Pretty much tells me all I need to know.  The only question I have is, why is WHO still kissing up to China and giving them, yet again, another pass?

[Gulfsailor]

13 minutes ago, Cali farong said:

Thailand could have signed up for Covax program and received 

free donated vaccine from other countries but that would have

made China very unhappy with Uncle.  All Thai people I know 

think this leader is not good for people 

 

And how much would they have received by now? Covax to this day distributed a total of 88 million vaccines to over 80 countries. Do the math…

[DBath]

18 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

This professor is a politician actually, not a medical specialist:
https://www.research.chula.ac.th/researcher-/siripan-nogsuan-sawasdee/
So she has made a political statement, not medical one. I would rather allow a gynecologist to treat my teeth than allow such a politician to tell me what vaccine to choose.

…And I would rather allow a gynecologist to treat my teeth than allow a politician to jab me with either of those Chinese vaccine’s. That is in essence what I feel is happening here. 

[Bkk Brian]

3 hours ago, shdmn said:

It's all variants.  Same as all the other vaccines.  Also, the 90+ efficacy you keep reading about with the mRNA vaccines does not include variants because the studies were done before that.   It's kind of a sneaky sleight of hand the mRNA vaccine manufacturers are doing with the numbers. 

 

Nobody seems to know what the efficacy is with the delta and the mRNA vaccines and that is intentional.  They just say it is effective which means you won't get really sick and be hospitalized. However, all the vaccines are effective at doing that including the Chinese ones.

Thats not correct, you should post accurate information:

 

New real-world study data from Public Health England (PHE) has demonstrated that two doses of either Pfizer/BioNTech or AstraZeneca’s (AZ) COVID-19 vaccines are ‘highly’ effective against the Delta variant (previously known as the Indian variant).The study included 14,019 individuals in England who had tested positive for the Delta variant, of which 166 were hospitalised between 12 April and 4 June.According to the data, the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine was 96% effective against hospitalisation or death caused by the Delta variant following two doses.

https://www.pmlive.com/pharma_news/pfizerbiontech,_az_vaccines_effective_against_delta_covid-19_variant_after_two_doses_1371713

[Stargeezr]

A very smart woman, she says it without saying it. To the ignorant government, who have ignored the fact that 

the Chinese vaccine is not very effective, if you insist on not getting the better vaccines you are proving that

you are indeed stupid, and not just ignorant.  Of course she just said that being obsessed with the China vaccine

is not a smart thing to do. Way to go professor!  good job.

Geezer

[friendofthai]

10 minutes ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

A very smart woman, she says it without saying it.

She definitely can't figure out what is the difference between a virus and a bacteria.  But she thinks she know better than professional biologists and medical doctors. Yes, this is what we call a very "smart" woman, she says it without saying it.

[Soikhaonoiken]

But, But, professor don't you understand,  the Sinovac comes with big big brown envelopes, that's why we choose this one. 

[Dogmatix]

"...why they are still choosing Sinovac over other vaccine alternatives when it’s clear that it is more expensive and has a much lower efficacy rate?:"

 

The good professor already knows the answer to this but is too scared to speak out.  The secret is in the padded import price and CP's 15% ownership of Sinovac.

[robsamui]

23 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

This is a matter of prestige/face for China, they just want as many countries as possible to order and use their vaccine. So my bet is that they’re throwing around quite a bit of money as an ‘incentive’ to persuade the powers that be to order the vaccine. And we all know the one and only true god that the Thai generals and their cronies pray to.

Erm . . . remind me again . . . where exactly did this mysterious supervirus suddenly appear . . . ?? What country did it 'escape' from?
(nod, nudge, wink)

[Redline]

18 hours ago, Jajazazajaja said:

 

did you even read the article?

 

According to the WHO, which recently granted both vaccines “Emergency Use Listings”, Sinovac’s vaccine efficacy stands at 51% against symptomatic disease and 100% against severe disease.

 

100% is not bad, is it?

Those people are still being hospitalized, and putting unvaccinated people at risk.  If you read the article, it explicitly said that there is very little real world data from the countries that are using primarily Chinese vaccines., and big holes in the data that has been supplied by the Chinese government.  It is believed, even in China, that the Chinese manufactured vaccines give little coverage for the new variants~therefore the multiple outbreaks in China.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

"...why they are still choosing Sinovac over other vaccine alternatives when it’s clear that it is more expensive and has a much lower efficacy rate?:"

 

The good professor already knows the answer to this but is too scared to speak out.  The secret is in the padded import price and CP's 15% ownership of Sinovac.

Well, one reason could be that it's all they can get on short notice.

[friendofthai]

2 hours ago, robsamui said:

Erm . . . remind me again . . . where exactly did this mysterious supervirus suddenly appear . . . ?? What country did it 'escape' from?
(nod, nudge, wink)

It is hard to determine. Because immediately after the virus was found in China - we saw that all the other countries in the world began to perform their own investigations: "Hey guys! This is not China! We have found the evidence that we are the true origin of the virus!" (nod, nudge, wink)

[DBath]

2 hours ago, robsamui said:

Erm . . . remind me again . . . where exactly did this mysterious supervirus suddenly appear . . . ?? What country did it 'escape' from?
(nod, nudge, wink)

I could tell you some stories about working in China with the CCP. Perhaps over many, many beers one day.

[DBath]

28 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

It is hard to determine. Because immediately after the virus was found in China - we saw that all the other countries in the world began to perform their own investigations: "Hey guys! This is not China! We have found the evidence that we are the true origin of the virus!" (nod, nudge, wink)

I'm sorry, WHAT?

[Fromas]

On 6/22/2021 at 9:07 PM, webfact said:

Professor Siripan Nogsuan

 

Her official bio on the Chula website:

Siripan is an Associate Professor and the Head of Department of Government, Faculty of Political Science, Chulalongkorn University, Thailand. Siripan received a Master Degree in Comparative Politics from the Johns Hopkins University and a Ph.D. from Kyoto University. Her research interests embrace comparative political parties and electoral systems, political behaviours, institutional design, Thai politics and civic education.

 

 

Make of that what you will!