Transfer money international using crypto

[Susco]

Let me first point out, just in case you were not aware of that yet, that I'm not a crypto fanboy, neither are interested in investing in crypto, and as such I know nothing - Nada - Zilch about crypto currencies. But it might be useful this time.

 

So if wanted to transfer Euro from my bank account in Belgium to Thailand, and withdraw it here in cash, how easy and quick would that be for an amount of 300.000 Euro?

 

Considering that the crypto I choose would not change in value, I know this is not possible, but I try to get an idea about the real cost involved, how much would the transaction for such an amount cost?

 

Would it be possible to transfer that amount in one go, or would it involve multiple transactions?

 

How easy would it be to exchange for cash in Thailand?

 

How much time would it take from when I transfer money from my bank to the crypto seller, and that I withdraw the cash here in Thailand.

 

Will there be questions asked for this amount?

 

I know, a lot of questions, and most likley I even forget the most important ones, but I would like to hear your answers.

 

In short, how viable is it to transfer that amount of money to Thailand, and withdraw it there in cash?

 

I should add, how much will I lose in exchange rate compared to make the transfer using SWIFT?

[jumbo]

If you move your crypto between two exchanges, with a hard wallet for example or transfer, that could  be done in seconds and would not change the value of the crypto.

 

You would need a Thai crypto exchange, as after receipt here you would want to move it to your Thai Bank account, I assume....

Practical issues

The Thai exchange will have daily withdraw limits, you must find out and increase the limit for 300K  Euro and  they will not accept all crypto's...

That's the basics

[Susco]

3 minutes ago, jumbo said:

If you move your crypto between two exchanges, with a hard wallet for example or transfer, that could  be done in seconds and would not change the value of the crypto.

 

There will always be a difference in value, the way I understand it, because I buy in Euros and withdraw in Thai baht.

 

4 minutes ago, jumbo said:

The Thai exchange will have daily withdraw limits, you must find out and increase the limit for 300K  Euro and  they will not accept all crypto's...

 

What will be the average limit?

 

So no costs involved at all? I read that it depends on the seller, and probably as well on the buyer, how much you pay or get for your crypto's. So I assume you will always lose between buy and sell. Not so?

[jumbo]

4 minutes ago, Susco said:

 

There will always be a difference in value, the way I understand it, because I buy in Euros and withdraw in Thai baht.

 

 

What will be the average limit?

 

So no costs involved at all? I read that it depends on the seller, and probably as well on the buyer, how much you pay or get for your crypto's. So I assume you will always lose between buy and sell. Not so?

You transfer in crypto that remains the same in value, I assumed that you had the crypto's, if you have to buy and sell in different currencies, you will have that loss

 

Average? The highest I know is 2 mio thb, daily limit and there is another risk for loss or chance on profit...

 

Crypto's have a buy and sell rate on the same exchange and give the fact you do both buy there sell here it will effect you...

[GrandPapillon]

why would you want to do that instead of a simple wire transfer?

 

wouldn't tax authority grow suspicious if they see your 300K EUR disappear overnight and not show up anywhere on their radar? they could actually ask where it went, and that could be another issue IMO if you refuse to say.

[Caldera]

That's a horrible idea, and I say that as someone who uses and doesn't dislike crypto currencies.

 

As you currently have the money in a bank account (not in crypto), just do a regular international bank transfer, which will provide you with documentation that allows you to repatriate the funds if and when needed. 

[Susco]

10 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

why would you want to do that instead of a simple wire transfer?

 

 

Because of this.

 

 

[Heng]

28 minutes ago, Susco said:

1)and as such I know nothing - Nada - Zilch about crypto currencies. 

 

2)So if wanted to transfer Euro from my bank account in Belgium to Thailand, and withdraw it here in cash, how easy and quick would that be for an amount of 300.000 Euro?

 

3)Considering that the crypto I choose would not change in value, I know this is not possible, but I try to get an idea about the real cost involved, how much would the transaction for such an amount cost?

 

4)Would it be possible to transfer that amount in one go, or would it involve multiple transactions?

 

5)How easy would it be to exchange for cash in Thailand?

 

6)How much time would it take from when I transfer money from my bank to the crypto seller, and that I withdraw the cash here in Thailand.

 

7)Will there be questions asked for this amount?

 

I know, a lot of questions, and most likley I even forget the most important ones, but I would like to hear your answers.

 

In short, how viable is it to transfer that amount of money to Thailand, and withdraw it there in cash?

 

I should add, how much will I lose in exchange rate compared to make the transfer using SWIFT?

 

#s added by me to allow for ease of answering:

 

1) Yes, this has been apparent the whole time.

 

2) Not relatively quick nor easy the first time, IMO.  The first time set up might take up to a week, and that's assuming you have a bank that isn't 'anti crypto' (imagine yourself, but as a bank).  You'd need an exchange account (at a service such as Coinbase or Bitstamp) and would need to pair it with your bank (to transfer your Euro to this exchange account).  You'd then convert your fiat to crypto.  There is typically a 'probation' type period where you can't make any large transactions before their risk assessment software green lights you.  This isn't a fixed number.  It'll vary depending no the service.  72 hours... a week.   Depends.   

 

3) Depends for this one too.  The rates vary with the crypto used.  From experience I'd say a ballpark of $30-$50 with BTC for the amount you mentioned, but it can be way more if the network is congested.   Bitcoin cash, EOS, all stable coins, all much less.   But then you're going to want to consider liquidity when you convert back to fiat.  BTC is like the USD liquidity wise.     

 

4) One go would be fine, but again, there's no telling what your bank will do to delay you if they view this as an out of the ordinary transaction how the crypto exchange service will delay you if this is a first time transaction.  If you're a regular customer in good standing with your bank AND crypto service, it's a couple seamless transactions (bank to crypto exchange and then crypto conversion) that take a few minutes.   

 

5) You'll want a local Thai based exchange account OR you can sell to buyers on localbitcoins or Binance.  IME, super easy.

 

6) You could probably do it all in a day or over the course of a few days.  The bottleneck is your own... if you want to wait for a favorable rate for example.     

 

7) If the amounts transferred are a normal amount (activity wise) for your local bank account, no one will ask you any questions.   If you receive your funds across multiple bank accounts, that will = no questions too.  If it's an out of the ordinary amount, you might get a call simply inquiring the nature of the transaction.   

 

 

It's like flying, the first time is slow...  but you don't have to apply to get a passport or set up your frequent flier account each time after that and it's easy.   

 

 

For your purposes here, though, it sounds like SWIFT is the better choice.   If it were a situation where you were waiting for a transfer/payment from someone you didn't trust 100%, for goods or services in another country, then crypto would be better.  Once you see it on the blockchain, it's yours, irreversible.  If it were a SWIFT transaction, you have to wait a bit to be sure, even if they send you what looks like a transfer order from their bank.

[Susco]

I have such a feeling from the responses so far, that my consideration was a bad idea.

 

From the other thread of mine, it looks as if my money will stay in Europe, as i have no options to transfer in a more normal way.

 

Next option will be to find people who want to move their funds in Thailand back to Europe, but I guess that will also not easy.

[bolt]

You should look at a WISE account

Crypto (Stablecoin) should be for something else

 

Research Wise (formerly Transferwise)  

[phetphet]

Firstly. providing the money has good provenance in France, why can't you just tell your French bank to transfer to you here in Thailand. Make sure they send it as Euros, and you will receive in your Thai account as THB.

 

Now regarding sending  as crypto. Another thing you will need to consider is which crypto you will use for the transfer. For instance Ethereum and other Ethereum based tokens can have very high fees for buying and selling, depending on several factors. So you will need to consider that.

Also the market is in a downward trend at the moment.

 

Of course you could also try a 50/50 where you send half by bank transfer and half in crypto. 

 

This also might be of use:

https://www.monito.com/send-money/france/thailand/eur/thb

 

HTH

 

[Susco]

5 minutes ago, phetphet said:

Firstly. providing the money has good provenance in France, why can't you just tell your French bank to transfer to you here in Thailand. Make sure they send it as Euros, and you will receive in your Thai account as THB.

 

My bank is Belgian, not French, and why I can't use my bank or Wise or CurrencyAffair is covered in this thread.

 

Oh and I had a look at that monito link long time ago, and I don't know what horse they have in the race, but it is very inaccurate. They for example claim that Azimo gives the best rates, but in reality their rates are far worse than Swift, and they are a rip off. Run by Paypal executives.

 

 

[Halfaboy]

32 minutes ago, bolt said:

You should look at a WISE account

Crypto (Stablecoin) should be for something else

 

Research Wise (formerly Transferwise)  

 

Note that the maximum amount per transaction is limited to 50.000 euros

[fdsa]

the best (cheapest, safest) way is to do a usual SWIFT transfer.

 

dealing with the cryptocurrency exchanges you will lose a huge amount on fees - up to 15% - so I would do this as the very last resort, only if I needed to quickly withdraw my money from the collapsing bank or country.

If you decide to go this way there are two options:

 

- the quick but somewhat complex method, and not very reliable in terms of customer protection (you might get scammed): 

contact any reputable seller on localbitcoins.com / localcryptos.com from Belgium / SEPA zone, and ask for a private deal, e.g. 6x 50000 EUR transfers (as usually they set low trade limits, about 1-5k EUR), then contact another reputable seller from Thailand and ask for a similar deal - e.g. 5x 2mil THB transfers. After you came to agreement with both - buy Bitcoins/Litecoins/Ethereums from the first one and immediately sell them to the second one.

 

- the slow but less complex method, reliable in terms of customer protection but no guarantees that you will be able to withdraw THB (anti-money-laundering BS, etc):

use a stablecoin such as USDT/USDC to not lose much on exchange rate fluctuations. You need to register on some crypto exchange that allows buying USDT/USDC directly with EUR or USD, for example Kraken or Bitfinex. After all the verifications which may take a few weeks make a bank transfer to the chosen cryptocurrency and buy USDT/USDC. Then register on a local cryptocurrency in Thailand and pass all verifications. After your account is ready - withdraw the USDT/USDC from the first exchange to the local Thailand exchange and sell them for THB (and this is where the AML BS comes up, as Thailand might consider this as a money laundering. You could try to buy Bitcoins/Litecoins/Ethereums on the first exchange and then sell them to the local Thai buyer from localbitcoins.com/localcryptos.com)

 

 

 

[Heng]

2 hours ago, bolt said:

You should look at a WISE account

Crypto (Stablecoin) should be for something else

 

Research Wise (formerly Transferwise)  

 

No way for you to know this, but the OP mentioned on another thread that his Wise account was terminated.  

[Susco]

1 hour ago, fdsa said:

the best (cheapest, safest) way is to do a usual SWIFT transfer.

 

dealing with the cryptocurrency exchanges you will lose a huge amount on fees - up to 15% - so I would do this as the very last resort, only if I needed to quickly withdraw my money from the collapsing bank or country.

If you decide to go this way there are two options:

 

- the quick but somewhat complex method, and not very reliable in terms of customer protection (you might get scammed): 

contact any reputable seller on localbitcoins.com / localcryptos.com from Belgium / SEPA zone, and ask for a private deal, e.g. 6x 50000 EUR transfers (as usually they set low trade limits, about 1-5k EUR), then contact another reputable seller from Thailand and ask for a similar deal - e.g. 5x 2mil THB transfers. After you came to agreement with both - buy Bitcoins/Litecoins/Ethereums from the first one and immediately sell them to the second one.

 

- the slow but less complex method, reliable in terms of customer protection but no guarantees that you will be able to withdraw THB (anti-money-laundering BS, etc):

use a stablecoin such as USDT/USDC to not lose much on exchange rate fluctuations. You need to register on some crypto exchange that allows buying USDT/USDC directly with EUR or USD, for example Kraken or Bitfinex. After all the verifications which may take a few weeks make a bank transfer to the chosen cryptocurrency and buy USDT/USDC. Then register on a local cryptocurrency in Thailand and pass all verifications. After your account is ready - withdraw the USDT/USDC from the first exchange to the local Thailand exchange and sell them for THB (and this is where the AML BS comes up, as Thailand might consider this as a money laundering. You could try to buy Bitcoins/Litecoins/Ethereums on the first exchange and then sell them to the local Thai buyer from localbitcoins.com/localcryptos.com)

 

 

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to write this detailed explanation.

 

As I said in the OP, I have no idea how crypto works, and reading your and other replies, I have now abandoned this route, as it is clear to me that crypto is not what the fanboys want us to believe.

 

I had that feeling long time already, and that is also the reason why I never got involved with it, and you just confirmed that I was right.

 

Crypto is not a way to make cheap, quick transfers, what the fanboys always shout from their soap box. Blockchain probably is, but crypto definitely not.

 

I'm getting at the end of my ideas about how to get my money here, the only way I now can think about is foreigners living in Thailand, who want to repatriate Thai baht back to a country in the SEPA zone.

 

But again, I have no idea how to find these people, as they don't advertise on the 7/11 ad boards.

[Heng]

1 hour ago, fdsa said:

dealing with the cryptocurrency exchanges you will lose a huge amount on fees - up to 15% - so I would do this as the very last resort, only if I needed to quickly withdraw my money from

 

 

 

 

That 15% estimate seems a bit steep.   Direct bank transfer to say Coinbase and then doing a purchase in 1 trade... maybe 0.5%.   And then just the network fee to send?      Still super expensive to compared to SWIFT, but certainly not a $30k hit.

[Regyai]

1 hour ago, Heng said:

 

No way for you to know this, but the OP mentioned on another thread that his Wise account was terminated.  

 

 

Explained in earlier post in this very thread

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1221805-transfer-money-international-using-crypto/?do=findComment&comment=16600091

[Masterton]

Firstly, the cost and speed of crypto transfers varies a lot depending on which coin you are sending and which network is used. As you admit to not knowing anything about crypto, a lot of the suggestions/advice here may not mean anything to you and make it seem a lot more complex than it really is. But you should read up and research more about this before making statements like  "crypto is not what the fanboys want us to believe". Because yes it is, and a whole lot more.

 

You need to accept that it will take a bit of time to set up all the accounts with exchanges etc, this is an inconvenient reality which you need to accept. But as another poster alluded to above, this is a one-time thing, once everything is set up you are good to go for the future after that initial faffing about. To echo another poster above, I would also suggest converting your Euros into a stable-coin such as USDT as the value will not fluctuate much, they can also be transferred over certain networks for almost nothing. Should you decide to go this route and need help/advice, feel free to ask here. Of course buying Bitcoin or Ethereum (as an example) during a dip will reward you later when it comes time to sell for THB. Furthermore, a lot of crypto is sold in Thailand at a premium compared to US/UK/EU so you will make a profit quite easily.

 

If you want to avoid trying to set up a crypto exchange account in Thailand and avoid all that red tape, have a look at the cryptobaht.io website. You can transfer bitcoin to them and they will put the equivalent THB in to your Thai bank account almost instantly. If you decide to go this route, I would recommend messaging their support first because they may be able to offer you some better options. They are quite helpful and offer a good service.

 

Regardless of which route you decide to use, I would not recommend sending EUR 300k to Thailand in the first place. Rather keep the money overseas and send smaller amounts as and when you need it. Remember too that if you need it to buy a condo or something of that nature, then you will need a paper trail that shows the money originated abroad so doing a bank transfer is probably the way to go in that instance.

 

 

[Heng]

34 minutes ago, Regyai said:

 

 

Explained in earlier post in this very thread

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1221805-transfer-money-international-using-crypto/?do=findComment&comment=16600091

 

Yeah, kind of.  Explained earlier if the respondent bothered to click that link.   

[Susco]

35 minutes ago, Masterton said:

If you want to avoid trying to set up a crypto exchange account in Thailand and avoid all that red tape, have a look at the cryptobaht.io website. You can transfer bitcoin to them and they will put the equivalent THB in to your Thai bank account almost instantly. If you decide to go this route, I would recommend messaging their support first because they may be able to offer you some better options. They are quite helpful and offer a good service.

 

Can you also give an indication what the cost would be for that service.

 

If I today would send it by SWIFT to Kasikorn, I would get an exchange rate of 37.36 Baht per Euro, minus the SWIFT costs, which are a few thousand baht as far as I recall, so on let's say 100K Euro they are less than 10 satang per Euro

 

So going the route you suggest, what do you estimate would be the end result if I did it today?

 

I don't need any papers or whatever, as I don't buy anything. I'm in Thailand for almost 30 years, address registered on the Embassy, and have no intention to move back ever.

 

The bank where I have my accounts, will end them on 5 August, and even moving them to a new account is a waste of time and money, because interests in Belgium are 0.11% if you don't touch the money for 12 months.

[Heng]

27 minutes ago, Masterton said:

Firstly, the cost and speed of crypto transfers varies a lot depending on which coin you are sending and which network is used. As you admit to not knowing anything about crypto, a lot of the suggestions/advice here may not mean anything to you and make it seem a lot more complex than it really is. But you should read up and research more about this before making statements like  "crypto is not what the fanboys want us to believe". Because yes it is, and a whole lot more.

 

You need to accept that it will take a bit of time to set up all the accounts with exchanges etc, this is an inconvenient reality which you need to accept. But as another poster alluded to above, this is a one-time thing, once everything is set up you are good to go for the future after that initial faffing about. To echo another poster above, I would also suggest converting your Euros into a stable-coin such as USDT as the value will not fluctuate much, they can also be transferred over certain networks for almost nothing. Should you decide to go this route and need help/advice, feel free to ask here. Of course buying Bitcoin or Ethereum (as an example) during a dip will reward you later when it comes time to sell for THB. Furthermore, a lot of crypto is sold in Thailand at a premium compared to US/UK/EU so you will make a profit quite easily.

 

If you want to avoid trying to set up a crypto exchange account in Thailand and avoid all that red tape, have a look at the cryptobaht.io website. You can transfer bitcoin to them and they will put the equivalent THB in to your Thai bank account almost instantly. If you decide to go this route, I would recommend messaging their support first because they may be able to offer you some better options. They are quite helpful and offer a good service.

 

Regardless of which route you decide to use, I would not recommend sending EUR 300k to Thailand in the first place. Rather keep the money overseas and send smaller amounts as and when you need it. Remember too that if you need it to buy a condo or something of that nature, then you will need a paper trail that shows the money originated abroad so doing a bank transfer is probably the way to go in that instance.

 

 

 

Susco probably knows that and I doubt anyone here really takes it personally.   After all, we're all on average (on TV)... grumpy old men of one sort or other.... just with varying topics to be grumpy about.   

 

Crypto being involved in the transaction of course doesn't mean it's going to suddenly become a 'magically cheap transaction.'     It's economical if you're holding a particular crypto and want to pay or receive funds in the same crypto in the same way.   The same way if you want to have a transaction between two K-Bank users in Thailand.  The plus side with crypto though is that you're not just limited to Thailand or any particular country... and when you compare it to something with similar reach, which is to say global (say Paypal for example) it really is pennies vs. 4-5% AND the transactions are permanent/can't be disputed (given: a plus for some and a negative for others).   For me, it's a huge plus because there's only one way I like my money to flow.          

 

[Susco]

3 minutes ago, Heng said:

Crypto being involved in the transaction of course doesn't mean it's going to suddenly become a 'magically cheap transaction.'     It's economical if you're holding a particular crypto and want to pay or receive funds in the same crypto in the same way.  

 

But that is just the thing, I don't want to hold crypto, because it is too volatile.

 

If I want to speculate, I have other options in which I believe more.

 

What I want now is move my money from Belgium to Thailand, in the most economical way, but from what I read here is that crypto is not the option for that.

[Heng]

2 minutes ago, Susco said:

 

But that is just the thing, I don't want to hold crypto, because it is too volatile.

 

If I want to speculate, I have other options in which I believe more.

 

What I want now is move my money from Belgium to Thailand, in the most economical way, but from what I read here is that crypto is not the option for that.

 

Yeah, I wasn't suggesting you hold it.   I was explaining how a crypto transaction can be economical.   

 

As mentioned earlier and as you probably have already concluded, good ol' SWIFT seems to be your best bet.   

[GrandPapillon]

7 hours ago, Susco said:

 

Because of this.

 

 

sorry I don't get it, would you care to elaborate?

[ukrules]

7 hours ago, fdsa said:

dealing with the cryptocurrency exchanges you will lose a huge amount on fees - up to 15%

Utter rubbish

[fdsa]

15 hours ago, fdsa said:

After all the verifications which may take a few weeks make a bank transfer to the chosen cryptocurrency and buy USDT/USDC. Then register on a local cryptocurrency in Thailand and pass all verifications.

I meant "to the chosen cryptocurrency exchange" and "a local cryptocurrency exchange". Could not edit the post now.

 

 

14 hours ago, Susco said:

Crypto is not a way to make cheap, quick transfers, what the fanboys always shout from their soap box.

not very correct, crypto is really a way to make cheap, quick transfers, but govs and regulators do everything possible to prevent people from buying and selling crypto.

Once you've bought some cryptocurrency and do not care about its fiat price fluctuation (e.g. if you treat 1 LTC as 1 LTC, not as 120 USD or whatever it costs now) - it is really cheap to send around.

Concerning the KYC AML WṪF QWE ASD ZXC regulations, once you've sent them your passport selfie & utility bill & bank statement & retina scan & decoded DNA sequence — you are free to buy and withdraw cryptocurrency. But if they do not like anything - you will get your account blocked and fiat/crypto frozen/confiscated

That's one of the reasons I was a huge proponent of localbitcoins.com few years ago as they did not require any verifications except voluntary (you was able to confirm phone/passport/address to get "verified" badges and raise trust in buyers). But now these verifications are mandatory.

 

 

7 hours ago, ukrules said:

Utter rubbish

unfortunately no, especially when dealing with stablecoins on Ethereum blockchain and small amounts - I've paid 80 USD fee (in ETH) for 1000 USD (USDT) transfer a few months ago.

Of course, if I was sending 1'000'000 USD I'd have paid the same 80 USD fee - that's the huge power of cryptocurrencies - same transfer fees regardless of the amount sent. You just need to use the crypto with low fees - i.e. NOT ETHEREUM lol

Else I've read reports that cryptocurrency exchanges do not convert USDT 1:1 to fiat USD but 1:0.97 so add these 3% to the exchange fee.

[mjnaus]

15 minutes ago, fdsa said:

unfortunately no, especially when dealing with stablecoins on Ethereum blockchain and small amounts - I've paid 80 USD fee (in ETH) for 1000 USD (USDT) transfer a few months ago.

 

Gas prices on Ethereum, which end up dictating the final transaction costs, fluctuate with demand for block space on the Ethereum network. A few months ago, these were at an all time high, but they have come down significantly since then. The attached image shows the most recent gas prices and transaction costs. As you can see, an ERC20 token transaction (which would include stable coins) sits at $2 per transaction.

 

This does not take into consideration using an L2 solution to transfer funds. Transfers on Polygon are so low, they're basically free. 

 

 

[fdsa]

1 hour ago, mjnaus said:

Gas prices on Ethereum, which end up dictating the final transaction costs, fluctuate with demand for block space on the Ethereum network. A few months ago, these were at an all time high, but they have come down significantly since then. The attached image shows the most recent gas prices and transaction costs. As you can see, an ERC20 token transaction (which would include stable coins) sits at $2 per transaction.

and this is the all time low price. The real average gas price is about 50 gwei which is about $10 USD for ERC20 transaction and $2 for Ethereum transaction. Also note that the final transaction fee is unpredictable in Ethereum network, you can't just set "use 0.0001 ETH as the fee".

Compare that to fees in Litecoin or Dash networks and you'll find out why I am very reluctant to use the largest ones - BTC or ETH.

 

[fdsa]

1 hour ago, fdsa said:

crypto is really a way to make cheap, quick transfers

My recent experience paying with the credit card online:

- entered card details, got redirected to the bank website for SMS OTP, entered the OTP and got redirected back to merchant with "card was rejected" error. No information, nothing, just "rejected". I've paid with the same card on the same website before so they definitely accept Thai credit cards.

- opened another browser ("the quality standard" Google Chrome without any adblockers), entered card details, entered SMS OTP, got same rejected error.

- opened a support ticket on merchant website, they answered that their card processing service is OK and I should try to pay again several hours later.

- tried to pay on the next day, same error. Went to the bank branch with a laptop and tried to pay to the same merchant in front of the bank staff, showing them my laptop. "OK, Please follow me to the ATM, you need to register Verified By Visa SMS OTP" - "no I do not need to register, I've just entered the SMS OTP and you saw it!" - "Please follow me". Followed to the ATM, inserted the card, entered pin, clicked "register Verified by Visa", got "you already registered". "Aaaaa", - said the bank staff lady. Went back to the table, and the bank lady called the main branch in Bangkok, after short conversation she passed me her phone and I had to describe everything again to the bank staff in Bangkok...

long story short, I've managed to make that payment 2 days after receiving an invoice from merchant.

 

My general experience paying with crypto online:

- get address and amount, enter them in local Electrum / Electrum-ltc / Electrum-dash / Myetherwallet application, click "send", done

 

but I have bought my cryptos long time ago when exchanges were not that bítchy and it was still easy to exchange fiat to crypto.