Protest leader Jatuporn Prompan to stay in prison for almost another year

[bradiston]

14 hours ago, kimamey said:

Yes there is and the post I was replying to was putting that point. Are you denying there was arson as mentioned in that post? I've also said I'm not in favour of defamation cases. Elsewhere I've supported the fact that innocent civilians were shot and I've no problem with those responsible being held to account but it wasn't Abhisit. 

 

Yes Jutaporn does seem to have come off worse and maybe that's as it should be. He doesn't seem to me to be someone I'd put much trust in. During the time in question he seemed to do pretty well. Wasn't this case about him calling Abhisit a murderer which it seems he wasn't and I suspect Jutaporn knows that very well. Had the circumstances turned the other way as Jutaporn and the redshirts and followers had wanted Abhisit could have been convicted of murder and they would have pushed for execution so Jutaporn spending a bit of time in prison doesn't seem that bad to me.

Abhisit was indicted for murder, as was Suthep, one of his DPMs. Execution was never on the cards. Where did you get that idea from? And what a ridiculous statement to make, that keeping Jatuporn in prison is justified because he would have "pushed for execution". Read about the activities of PAD if you think the redshirts are the villains. The whole world condemned what they did. A violent, out of control mob of elitist royalists who took the law into their own hands with disastrous results for Thailand's economy and image overseas.

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems many farmers don't like educated honest people...

I don't think Thai farmers have much say on whose name is on ballot forms.

Come to think of it, I didn't have much say on whose names were on ballot forms in the UK.

[OneMoreFarang]

11 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Abhisit was indicted for murder, as was Suthep, one of his DPMs. Execution was never on the cards. Where did you get that idea from? And what a ridiculous statement to make, that keeping Jatuporn in prison is justified because he would have "pushed for execution". Read about the activities of PAD if you think the redshirts are the villains. The whole world condemned what they did. A violent, out of control mob of elitist royalists who took the law into their own hands with disastrous results for Thailand's economy and image overseas.

And how much did "the whole world" know?

One of the best examples is the BBC. Their reporting at that time was often as if they were fed by Thaksin's PR department.

Somehow many people in "the whole world" think that if people pretend to be peaceful democratic activist that that has to be true. At least in 2010 many of those who pretended to be peaceful democratic activist worked for criminal Thaksin so that he could get "his" money back. Nothing peaceful about that - except in the name.

 

To understand Thailand takes more than best case 3 minute video clips shown in western news.

[herfiehandbag]

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am not an admirer of the criminal Thaksin and his little criminal sister and the rest of their criminal club. Are you?

 

Being anti A doesn't mean being pro B. Unfortunately in Thailand people vote again and again for bad politicians. It seems many farmers don't like educated honest people...

In the last election arguably the most honest educated people on the ballot papers were the Future Forward Party. Rather a lot of people, urban and farmers voted for them. They formed a significant bloc of seats, and represented a significant proportion of the electorate, certainly one capable, in coalition, of forming a government.

 

That soon got stopped didn't it!

 

And the other farmers - despicable little people who just don't understand what's good for them - well they are easily disenfranchised, removed from power, despite having won every previous election for what, 20 years?

[OneMoreFarang]

5 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I don't think Thai farmers have much say on whose name is on ballot forms.

Come to think of it, I didn't have much say on whose names were on ballot forms in the UK.

If enough people support a person than that person will be on ballot forms, in Thailand and in many other democracies. There is a long process before the general elections with limited choices. 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 minute ago, herfiehandbag said:

In the last election arguably the most honest educated people on the ballot papers were the Future Forward Party. Rather a lot of people, urban and farmers voted for them. They formed a significant bloc of seats, and represented a significant proportion of the electorate, certainly one capable, in coalition, of forming a government.

 

That soon got stopped didn't it!

 

And the other farmers - despicable little people who just don't understand what's good for them - well they are easily disenfranchised, removed from power, despite having won every previous election for what, 20 years?

How about looking at facts? Do farmers in Thailand, and many others, elect again and again corrupt people? And if those corrupt people are banned from politics do the voters often vote for family members of those corrupt politicians? Why do people who vote for crooks expect an honest government? 

This is not about one politician has this idea and another politician has another idea and who's ideas are better. People who vote for criminals and expect an honest government are stupid and they don't understand what's good for them.

 

And about Future Forward: Another super rich Thai who didn't do much for the people in his life up to now wants to become prime minister. Why? And why was he friendly with the criminal Thaksin? 

 

I am sure there are many smart and honest Thai people out there. But it seems most of them don't want to get involved in politics. Because politics is a dirty business in Thailand - and not only Thailand.

[Denim]

On 7/9/2021 at 5:26 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

 I live in Bangkok.

And like I wrote earlier, there wouldn't be any dead people if the red-shirts would not have illegally occupied Bangkok or if they would have gone home after they did that for months.

I also used to live in Bangkok and was frequently inconvenienced by yellow shirt protesters during Shutdown Bangkok.

 

As for deaths, there would have been none had the democratic process been observed by the election losers.

 

All this political strife and military intervention has been caused by yellow shirt loyalists who cannot abide by the Democratic process when they keep losing.

[herfiehandbag]

23 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

To understand Thailand takes more than best case 3 minute video clips shown in western news.

Absolutely, it needs the true devotion of an anti democratic "fellow traveller".

 

All your arguments, all of them, fall at the simple fact that your beloved junta has never won an election. Instead it has swung into action, and manipulated parliament, constitutions and courts to ensure that it, and those it is beholden too, remain in power. The will of the people has been flagrantly and consistently ignored, and you constantly support it, because you don't like Thaksin. Can't you get it into your head that a lot of other people may not like Thaksin that much as well, but still prefer him to the military who have made such a stellar success of running things over the last 7 years. And then, after that performance, you talk of corruption!

 

Your position is entirely based on a dislike of one man. You are prepared to welcome the systematic erosion of a whole countries political rights, and the concomitant damage to it's economic and social future prospects, over the last seven years and for the foreseeable future, because of that. That is why I call you a "fellow traveller"

Edited July 11, 2021 by herfiehandbag

[OneMoreFarang]

6 minutes ago, Denim said:

I also used to live in Bangkok and was frequently inconvenienced by yellow shirt protesters during Shutdown Bangkok.

 

As for deaths, there would have been none had the democratic process been observed by the election losers.

 

All this political strife and military intervention has been caused by yellow shirt loyalists who cannot abide by the Democratic process when they keep losing.

It seems you think a criminal should be allowed to lead the country no matter what.

And if people are so stupid to vote again for a criminal then he should become PM again?

IMHO criminals should be in jail - all of them.

[OneMoreFarang]

10 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

Absolutely, it needs the true devotion of an anti democratic "fellow traveller".

 

All your arguments, all of them, fall at the simple fact that your beloved junta has never won an election. Instead it has swung into action, and manipulated parliament, constitutions and courts to ensure that it, and those it is beholden too, remain in power. The will of the people has been flagrantly and consistently ignored, and you constantly support it, because you don't like Thaksin. Can't you get it into your head that a lot of other people may not like Thaksin that much as well, but still prefer him to the military who have made such a stellar success of running things over the last 7 years. And then, after that performance, you talk of corruption!

 

Your position is entirely based on a dislike of one man. You are prepared to welcome the systematic erosion of a whole countries political rights, and the concomitant damage to it's economic and social future prospects, over the last seven years and for the foreseeable future, because of that. That is why I call you a "fellow traveller"

I let you travel wherever you want. 

Accusations like "your beloved junta" are wrong and insulting.

You don't want to listen to my arguments and I am tired of your arguments. 

I am out of here.

[ThailandRyan]

17 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems you think a criminal should be allowed to lead the country no matter what.

And if people are so stupid to vote again for a criminal then he should become PM again?

IMHO criminals should be in jail - all of them.

Does that Include the criminals currently running the country who have amended and created laws that benefit them and their ILK, I believe they should be out and prosecuted for malfeasance and corruption as well.  What's good for the goose is good for the gander and singling people out because of their affiliation is incorrect.  A law breaker and crook is still a law breaker and crook no matter who they are or who they are aligned with, just like the deputy agricultural minister and now secretary general of the PPRP, or Junta led party.

[DaveE13]

5 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Does that Include the criminals currently running the country who have amended and created laws that benefit them and their ILK, I believe they should be out and prosecuted for malfeasance and corruption as well.  What's good for the goose is good for the gander and singling people out because of their affiliation is incorrect.  A law breaker and crook is still a law breaker and crook no matter who they are or who they are aligned with, just like the deputy agricultural minister and now secretary general of the PPRP, or Junta led party.

He won't answer you he  just deflects. 

Edited July 11, 2021 by DaveE13
Added

[BE88]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I don't think Thai farmers have much say on whose name is on ballot forms.

Come to think of it, I didn't have much say on whose names were on ballot forms in the UK.

 

You have understood everything about the former democracy and current oligarchy in the world

 

 

[Denim]

59 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems you think a criminal should be allowed to lead the country no matter what.

And if people are so stupid to vote again for a criminal then he should become PM again?

IMHO criminals should be in jail - all of them.

 

I man who seizes power by force of arms is , in my opinion , a bigger criminal We have one now leading the country who is not only a criminal but has given himself and his friends immunity from prosecution. And amazingly enough, some people are stupid enough to believe that this is in some way an improvement and that the country is in some way better off now than it was before.

 

Amazing Thailand indeed.

[OneMoreFarang]

41 minutes ago, Denim said:

 

I man who seizes power by force of arms is , in my opinion , a bigger criminal We have one now leading the country who is not only a criminal but has given himself and his friends immunity from prosecution. And amazingly enough, some people are stupid enough to believe that this is in some way an improvement and that the country is in some way better off now than it was before.

 

Amazing Thailand indeed.

Did you experience years of Thailand and his little sister? 

IMHO Prayut if far away from good but a lot better than Thaksin.

And it seems the majority of Thais don't want educated and honest people like Abhisit.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

Does that Include the criminals currently running the country who have amended and created laws that benefit them and their ILK, I believe they should be out and prosecuted for malfeasance and corruption as well.  What's good for the goose is good for the gander and singling people out because of their affiliation is incorrect.  A law breaker and crook is still a law breaker and crook no matter who they are or who they are aligned with, just like the deputy agricultural minister and now secretary general of the PPRP, or Junta led party.

Of course all criminals should be in jail. How often do I have to write that?

Prosecute them, present the evidence, convict them, and jail them.

Accusations are not enough.

[Denim]

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Did you experience years of Thailand and his little sister? 

IMHO Prayut if far away from good but a lot better than Thaksin.

And it seems the majority of Thais don't want educated and honest people like Abhisit.

Been here since 1979 so seen quite a few come and go. 

 

Most people I talk to nowadays , even former yellow shirts ,  think that things were better  under Thaksin than Prayuth. That's just the way it is. 

 

We have a government now that is so sensitive to criticism that even musicians have been driven into exile for rapping about the poor leadership.

 

Then , if we look how the whole vaccine thing has been handled , deplorable and incompetent.

 

Thaksin and Yingluk could not have done worse even if they tried.

[Caldera]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Did you experience years of Thailand and his little sister? 

IMHO Prayut if far away from good but a lot better than Thaksin.

And it seems the majority of Thais don't want educated and honest people like Abhisit.

I was in Thailand during the Thaksin and Yingluck years. By and large, Thais seemed to me much happier back then and the country was developing instead of stagnating or going backwards.

 

Personally, I wasn't a big fan, but I don't see a single aspect of life in Thailand that has improved thanks to Prayuth and his cronies. So I think you have that part upside down.

 

What good was an "honest Abhisit" (taking that at face value), considering that he had an outright criminal sidekick to do all his dirty work? His cabinet as a whole was just as corrupt as any other.

[OneMoreFarang]

5 minutes ago, Caldera said:

I was in Thailand during the Thaksin and Yingluck years. By and large, Thais seemed to me much happier back then and the country was developing instead of stagnating or going backwards.

 

Personally, I wasn't a big fan, but I don't see a single aspect of life in Thailand that has improved thanks to Prayuth and his cronies. So I think you have that part upside down.

Our perception obviously depends on our environment.

In Bangkok I know very few Thais who hate Prayut or want Thaksin back.

And up country it seems the opposite is the case.

That's one of the reasons why I am not up country.

[bradiston]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And how much did "the whole world" know?

One of the best examples is the BBC. Their reporting at that time was often as if they were fed by Thaksin's PR department.

Somehow many people in "the whole world" think that if people pretend to be peaceful democratic activist that that has to be true. At least in 2010 many of those who pretended to be peaceful democratic activist worked for criminal Thaksin so that he could get "his" money back. Nothing peaceful about that - except in the name.

 

To understand Thailand takes more than best case 3 minute video clips shown in western news.

I was alluding to the Wikipedia entry for People's Alliance for Democracy, specifically the section on the Seizure of Suvarnabhumi airport, Government House etc etc. Makes Trump supporters look like kindergarten kids.

[herfiehandbag]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I let you travel wherever you want. 

Accusations like "your beloved junta" are wrong and insulting.

You don't want to listen to my arguments and I am tired of your arguments. 

I am out of here.

Oh that is a shame, I was only just getting into the swing of things!

[ThailandRyan]

32 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Our perception obviously depends on our environment.

In Bangkok I know very few Thais who hate Prayut or want Thaksin back.

And up country it seems the opposite is the case.

That's one of the reasons why I am not up country.

And the Thais I live around here in Bangkok have the opposite view of yours unfortunately, so it all depends where one truly is and the dynamics of life of those affected now doesn't it.

[Caldera]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Our perception obviously depends on our environment.

In Bangkok I know very few Thais who hate Prayut or want Thaksin back.

And up country it seems the opposite is the case.

That's one of the reasons why I am not up country.

I live in Bangkok, too. I didn't claim that Thais want Thaksin back. I think a good part of Bangkokians, in particular, want to get rid of Prayuth without having Thaksin (or Abhisit, for that matter) back. Unsurprisingly, they voted for the Future Forward Party.

[candide]

On 7/9/2021 at 12:00 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Yes, I agree, memory can be jolly selective.

 

I was in Bangkok in 2010. Every day the aggressive red-<deleted>s on the streets who behaved like they owned the town. Huge barricades with tires (which were later burnt). And if anybody like me needed to go to an area near Central World I had a ask the red-shirts at the barricades if they let me in.

Police? They did nothing, absolutely nothing! All tomato-police.

 

And because the tomato police did nothing the situation got worse and worse. And Thaksin obviously needed those red-<deleted>s to demand "his" money back.

Abhisit had a lot of patience, too much patience for many. And finally Abhisit told the red-<deleted>s to go home. He had busses ready to bring them home. Free of charge, no charges for occupying Bangkok for months, a free ride home.

But the red-shirts obviously preferred to follow their criminal leader and they stayed.

And then, finally, the army moved in to remove the illegal occupation of the town. The red-shirts still could go home. They still could ride home on those busses for free. But they didn't do that. They burned down a big part of the inner city. They looted the city, the story goes on and on and on.

 

The military didn't have to come if the red-shirts would have peacefully gone home. All the dead people happened because of the illegal red-shirt occupation. I am really sad that good soldiers died doing their job.

 

Yes, I agree, some things seems to easily slip out of the minds of some people.

I saw the fires and smoke for days. I heard the explosions and the gunfire. No, I won't forget those months until the end of my life.

And that's what should happen with Jatuporn and the other leaders and their big boss. They should be rotting in jail for the rest of their lives.

You forget to mention a detail: they were protesting to get elections so that people can choose their government.

 

You are against protests for elections, but also for protests or coups preventing elections to be held, such as in 2014. That sums it up about your position.

[OneMoreFarang]

38 minutes ago, candide said:

You forget to mention a detail: they were protesting to get elections so that people can choose their government.

 

You are against protests for elections, but also for protests or coups preventing elections to be held, such as in 2014. That sums it up about your position.

Thaksin paid many of them to be there so that he could get "his" money back.

 

Personally I have no problem with protesters who think about what they want and who protest without getting paid for it. People who are paid to protest are mercenaries and not genuine protesters. And people who support everything their (super rich) leader tell them to do are not much better.

 

Democracy is a good idea if intelligent and educated and interested people vote. The stupid masses are manipulated - in many countries in this world.

[bradiston]

7 hours ago, bradiston said:

I was alluding to the Wikipedia entry for People's Alliance for Democracy, specifically the section on the Seizure of Suvarnabhumi airport, Government House etc etc. Makes Trump supporters look like kindergarten kids.

Link here

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Alliance_for_Democracy

[kimamey]

9 hours ago, bradiston said:

Abhisit was indicted for murder, as was Suthep, one of his DPMs. Execution was never on the cards. Where did you get that idea from? And what a ridiculous statement to make, that keeping Jatuporn in prison is justified because he would have "pushed for execution". Read about the activities of PAD if you think the redshirts are the villains. The whole world condemned what they did. A violent, out of control mob of elitist royalists who took the law into their own hands with disastrous results for Thailand's economy and image overseas.

The death penalty is one of the options for some crimes in Thailand. It hadn't been used for about 10 years until 3 years ago when the last one was carried out for a death caused during a robbery. It was widely thought at the time that there was a plan to propose an amnesty that would have included  Abhisit and Suthep as a bargining tool to allow Thaksin back into the country. Abhisit rejected any amnesty and already had immunity which he had already refused that was granted under the emergency powers put in place by Thaksin. It's quite likely that there wouldn't have been any execution but it doesn't mean it wasn't possible. I can't find any record of it now but I remember at the time reading about a Pheu Thai politician saying the death penalty would be justified. 

 

I don't need to read about the activities of PAD as I'm already well aware of them. I've never said there weren't bad elements on both sides. I live in Isaan so we were and probably still are surrounded by red shirt supporters and there are those from both sides in my family but I never heard any of them support violence so it's not the way most people would behave.

 

I also never suggested that keeping Jutaporn in prison was justified because he would have pushed for execution.

 

I do think Abhisit was wrong to have appealed against his release but I'm sure if the position was reversed the Jutaporn would probably have done the same

[candide]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thaksin paid many of them to be there so that he could get "his" money back.

 

Personally I have no problem with protesters who think about what they want and who protest without getting paid for it. People who are paid to protest are mercenaries and not genuine protesters. And people who support everything their (super rich) leader tell them to do are not much better.

 

Democracy is a good idea if intelligent and educated and interested people vote. The stupid masses are manipulated - in many countries in this world.

Most protesters have been paid on both sides, except locals who only protested occasionally. The ones coming from provinces and sleeping on site were paid. Red or yellow, it was the same.

 

So what is better:

- paid protesters and/or who are being manipulated to ask for an election, in order to elect (or not) a corrupt government headed by a super rich, but which can be voted out,

- or paid protesters and/or who are being manipulated (Suthep as herald of anti-corruption, lol!) to put into power an unelected corrupt government (chosen by even more super rich people) which can never be voted out?

 

 

Edited July 11, 2021 by candide