Thai study finds 2 doses of Sinovac can’t beat Delta variant, AstraZeneca can

[ThailandRyan]

19 minutes ago, ourmanflint said:

Can't believe some people still actually think like this! 

Well they are called Denier's for a reason now......

[ThailandRyan]

11 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well, a natural experiment is about to take place in Phuket, where at least 57% of the population has been vaccinated twice, mostly, I believe, with Sinovac. It will be interesting to see how it fares vs. the rest of the country.

Is that why they just shut all schools in Phuket, they are expecting the experiment to go awry and do not want the kids to fall victim?

[placeholder]

Here's the meaning of immunization:

'the action of making a person or animal immune to infection, typically by inoculation.'

So what are these scientists claiming? That AZ provides 100% immunization? Obviously not since not even Pfizer or Moderna can claim that. Just recently a report came out of Israel that said the Pfizer vaccine was only 64% effective against the Delta virus. To be fair, many epidemiologists there think that figure is too low, but virtually all agree that the Pfizer vaccine is less effective against Delta than it is against Alpha.

Also, immunization is one thing, clinical effectiveness against severe symptoms and death is quite another. Almost certainly the Sinovac vaccine will be less effective than even AZ and even less effective than that when compared to Pfizer and Moderna. But will it provide an important degree of clinical protection? I don't think this study addresses that question at all.

 

[kimamey]

50 minutes ago, bitterbatter said:

Why on Earth do you want an untested, experimental‘vaccine’ made in the same country as the virus.... when you Already have cheap cure that works even with variants, ivermectin????

vaccines need a minimum of 5 years testing, MRNA gene therapy isn’t even a actual vaccine.  

mRNA vaccines aren't gene therapy as no change is made to the DNA and it doesn't enter the cells at all. The current vaccines are new but mRNA techniques have been studied and tested for 20 to 30 years.

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Is that why they just shut all schools in Phuket, they are expecting the experiment to go awry and do not want the kids to fall victim?

It's early days, isn't it? And if I were the authorities there,  I would absolutely opt for erring on the side of caution. Let's wait and see how mortality rates fare in Phuket. So far, apparently the mortality rate is very low. And 70% double vaccination hasn't been attained yet.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, kimamey said:

mRNA vaccines aren't gene therapy as no change is made to the DNA and it doesn't enter the cells at all. The current vaccines are new but mRNA techniques have been studied and tested for 20 to 30 years.

I think you meant that they don't enter the nucleus where the DNA is located. They do enter the cell and go to the ribosomes of the cell where instructions in the form of messenger RNA are issued to manufacture a covid 19 spike on the surface of the cell.

Edited July 9, 2021 by placeholder

[kimamey]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I think you meant that they don't enter the nucleus where the DNA is located. They do enter the cell and go to the ribosomes of the cell where instructions in the form of messenger RNA are issued to manufacture a covid 19 spike on the surface of the cell.

Yes you're right. I'm not an expert and I was just going from memory and trying to keep my reply simple. Thankfully you've added what I was too lazy to.  

Edited July 9, 2021 by kimamey

[placeholder]

Just now, kimamey said:

Yes you're right. I'm not an expert and I was just going from memory and trying to keep my reply simple. Thankfully you've added what I was too lazy to.  

You can thank my OCD

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, Sametboy2019 said:

Here we go. After being vaccinated with Sinovac we are told you need a <deleted> of Astravenca for the Delta variant.

Then after that we need another dose for the Lambda variant or a Mrna shot for another variant and so on on and so forth.

Doesn't big pharma just love pandemics?

 

 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Moonlover said:

Doesn't big pharma just love pandemics?

 

 

Familiar with the expression "It's an ill wind that blows nobody good."?

[edwinchester]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

Yet how many who have had the first dose of the AstraZenica vaccine are still waiting for the 2nd one.  12 weeks apart is what they have been going with.  Wonder how just the one jab of AZ does versus the 2 Sinovac jabs, and if the one AZ jab gives one a fighting chance.  Would like to see a study on that.

Yeah, first AZ shot 28th June and scheduled for the 2nd on 20th Sept...... it's a long wait in these troubled times especially knowing it's the 2nd dose that's the turbo charger for your own antibodies.

[LosLobo]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

Yet how many who have had the first dose of the AstraZenica vaccine are still waiting for the 2nd one.  12 weeks apart is what they have been going with.  Wonder how just the one jab of AZ does versus the 2 Sinovac jabs, and if the one AZ jab gives one a fighting chance.  Would like to see a study on that.

Evidently one dose of AZ is only giving about 33% efficacy against the Delta variant.

In Australia , currently under-vaccinated and with a shortage of Pfizer, there is now a recommendation to reduce the AZ dosing period from 12 weeks to 8 weeks to prepare for a Delta variant surge.

[ThailandRyan]

4 minutes ago, edwinchester said:

Yeah, first AZ shot 28th June and scheduled for the 2nd on 20th Sept...... it's a long wait in these troubled times especially knowing it's the 2nd dose that's the turbo charger for your own antibodies.

And yet before they pushed it back to 12 weeks they had it at 16 weeks, while in the UK they originally were giving the second jab after 4 weeks from what I remember.

[edwinchester]

Just now, ThailandRyan said:

And yet before they pushed it back to 12 weeks they had it at 16 weeks, while in the UK they originally were giving the second jab after 4 weeks from what I remember.

Think Thailand originally had it spaced so far out because they wanted to get a 1st dose into as many arms as possible because of an obvious supply problem. Kickback from experts as well as the public got them back to 12 weeks.

[sucit]

Let’s have a little lesson here. 
 

Virus variants infecting hosts with an effective vaccine get weeded out of the genome. In short, we eliminate the genomes the virus works against. Ok, great! 
 

Due to variation within the virus, some variants are resistant to the vaccines, maybe all of them. Result, these variants propagate. 
 

If you are following, we now have a situation where time has past and all we have left are the variants that are resistant to the vaccines. There will always be some of these variants who are resistant to any vaccine we produce, and since this all started with one infected individual… (deduce deduce deduce). 

[chalawaan]

Credit where it's due to once again, the true heroes worldwide, the medics and scientists. They're doing the due diligence, speaking up, and letting the rocking horse IQ government know they are not having any of it.

[Dogmatix]

1 hour ago, connda said:

In the ultimate irony, perhaps a super-killer variant comes along and ONLY Sinovac stops it. 

It's much more likely that injecting people with low quality stuff like Sinovac (and probably Sinopharm) that gives some immunity against delta but not enough to be any use will end up being like taking only part of a course of anitbiotices and will create a super variant.  The SinoSigma variant perhaps. 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, sucit said:

Let’s have a little lesson here. 
 

Virus variants infecting hosts with an effective vaccine get weeded out of the genome. In short, we eliminate the genomes the virus works against. Ok, great! 
 

Due to variation within the virus, some variants are resistant to the vaccines, maybe all of them. Result, these variants propagate. 
 

If you are following, we now have a situation where time has past and all we have left are the variants that are resistant to the vaccines. There will always be some of these variants who are resistant to any vaccine we produce, and since this all started with one infected individual… (deduce deduce deduce). 

I guess that means that no antiviral vaccines can ultimately work. Except they do. This is kind of like when it was thought it was aerodynamically impossible for bees to fly.

[bipper]

And millions on the way

????????

[Scott]

Troll post reported and removed. 

 

[impulse]

Motorcycle helmets only prevent 40% of deaths in crashes.  But they're still a good idea until you can afford a car with seat belts and doors.

 

Same with Sinovac.

 

[gearbox]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Here's the meaning of immunization:

'the action of making a person or animal immune to infection, typically by inoculation.'

So what are these scientists claiming? That AZ provides 100% immunization? Obviously not since not even Pfizer or Moderna can claim that. Just recently a report came out of Israel that said the Pfizer vaccine was only 64% effective against the Delta virus. To be fair, many epidemiologists there think that figure is too low, but virtually all agree that the Pfizer vaccine is less effective against Delta than it is against Alpha.

Also, immunization is one thing, clinical effectiveness against severe symptoms and death is quite another. Almost certainly the Sinovac vaccine will be less effective than even AZ and even less effective than that when compared to Pfizer and Moderna. But will it provide an important degree of clinical protection? I don't think this study addresses that question at all.

 

Here is a better explanation of this "study" with some graphics.

 

https://www.archyde.com/dr-theerawat-pointed-out-that-sinovac-2-needles-plus-astra-1-needle-can-prevent-delta-strains/

 

According to the study 2 X Sinovac + 1 X AZ is the best of the best and will completely trash the delta variant. For some reason on the graphs 2 X AZ looks way less effective.

 

Hard to believe this stuff. The best indication are the breakthrough cases, hospitalizations and deaths. I think more numbers will be coming soon.

[placeholder]

Just now, gearbox said:

Here is a better explanation of this "study" with some graphics.

 

https://www.archyde.com/dr-theerawat-pointed-out-that-sinovac-2-needles-plus-astra-1-needle-can-prevent-delta-strains/

 

According to the study 2 X Sinovac + 1 X AZ is the best of the best and will completely trash the delta variant. For some reason on the graphs 2 X AZ looks way less effective.

 

Hard to believe this stuff. The best indication are the breakthrough cases, hospitalizations and deaths. I think more numbers will be coming soon.

I guess it could be the case. If that were so, then it would actually be superior to the mRNA vaccines or anything else. At least as far as the Delta variant goes. Which, oddly enough, would amount to an endorsement of Sinovac's use provided it was followed with Astrazeneca. For the time being, I'm going to remain sceptical. 

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Yet how many who have had the first dose of the AstraZenica vaccine are still waiting for the 2nd one.  12 weeks apart is what they have been going with.  Wonder how just the one jab of AZ does versus the 2 Sinovac jabs, and if the one AZ jab gives one a fighting chance.  Would like to see a study on that.

Like you I'm waiting for the second dose of AZ

 

AZ: 33% effective after one dose, 60% effective after two.

92% effective against hospitalisation after 2 doses

 

Pfizer: 33% effective after one dose, 88% effective after two. 

96% effective against hospitalisation after 2 doses

 

Sinovac??

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Well, a natural experiment is about to take place in Phuket, where at least 57% of the population has been vaccinated twice, mostly, I believe, with Sinovac. It will be interesting to see how it fares vs. the rest of the country.

The first round was all Sinovac but that was all for the under 60's, that was weeks ago, however the latest have mostly all been AZ so knowing percentages is very difficult until they offer some official announcements.

[misterjames]

13 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I guess it could be the case. If that were so, then it would actually be superior to the mRNA vaccines or anything else. At least as far as the Delta variant goes. Which, oddly enough, would amount to an endorsement of Sinovac's use provided it was followed with Astrazeneca. For the time being, I'm going to remain sceptical. 

Here we go again lol how is adding a dose of an effective vaccine (AZ in this case) to an ineffective vaccine (Sinovac) an endorsement for Sinovac? 

 

That's like saying bad quality paint is superior if you paint over it with some good quality paint:D

 

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by misterjames

[djayz]

Has this not been common knowledge for a while now? 

[impulse]

1 hour ago, kimamey said:

mRNA vaccines aren't gene therapy as no change is made to the DNA and it doesn't enter the cells at all. The current vaccines are new but mRNA techniques have been studied and tested for 20 to 30 years.

 But isn't it interesting that, in 20-30 years they never discovered an application where the risks didn't exceed the benefits?

 

[gearbox]

4 minutes ago, misterjames said:

Here we go again lol how is adding a dose of an effective vaccine (AZ in this case) to an ineffective vaccine (Sinovac) an endorsement for Sinovac? 

 

That's like saying crappy paint is good if you paint over it with some good paint:D

That what the docs essentially say in the "study" you enthusiastically embrace. 2 X Sinovac plus 1 X AZ is the best of the best under the sun 555.

[gearbox]

18 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I guess it could be the case. If that were so, then it would actually be superior to the mRNA vaccines or anything else. At least as far as the Delta variant goes. Which, oddly enough, would amount to an endorsement of Sinovac's use provided it was followed with Astrazeneca. For the time being, I'm going to remain sceptical. 

I don't know which cocktail of vaccines would be the best mix, but with Pfizer seeking approval for a third shot, and most of the rest mulling the same, looks like a third shot is likely.  Probably even a forth later.