Why should I inject a vaccine that could kill me when I have no risk to be sick with covid ? A Thai boy told me, what can I reply him to push for vaccination ?

[Jeffr2]

49 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Flu vaccination requirement for UC students, faculty and staff issued for 2021-2022

 

Flu vaccination requirement for UC students, faculty and staff issued for 2021-2022 | UCnet (universityofcalifornia.edu)

Ummm...this is about coronavirus.  Not the flu.  Kinda comparing apples to oranges.  But makes sense from those who are far right.

[Yellowtail]

36 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Coronavirus is far more dangerous and deadly than the flu. There's an obvious case for mandating coronavirus vaccines in the public interest. Only those who consider it a hoax or some kind of conspiracy would think otherwise. Even those people who have survived the disease should understand their responsibility to help keep others safe from it and get vaccinated. I'm not suggesting you disagree with this, putting a fine point on the issue. I think anyone who is skeptical of the vaccines at all is doing mankind a huge disservice.

So you would be against mandating flu shots or any vaccinations except the coronavirus, correct? 

[Yellowtail]

25 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Ummm...this is about coronavirus.  Not the flu.  Kinda comparing apples to oranges.  But makes sense from those who are far right.

So you would be against mandating flu shots or any vaccinations except the coronavirus, correct? 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So you would be against mandating flu shots or any vaccinations except the coronavirus, correct? 

No, I would not be opposed, however I don't see the same compelling need to mandate the shots. Apart from the public health need to reduce the infection rates, a good reason to mandate the vaccine is to combat the politicisation of the anti vax propaganda. Obvious some countries don't need a mandate due to high rates of uptake but others clearly do.

[Yellowtail]

34 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Your tag.  Proves what I'm saying.  You've made things political.  Sad.

Your tag: "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.", and the fact that you are always discussing me rather than the issue proves what I already know. 

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

No, I would not be opposed, however I don't see the same compelling need to mandate the shots. Apart from the public health need to reduce the infection rates, a good reason to mandate the vaccine is to combat the politicisation of the anti vax propaganda. Obvious some countries don't need a mandate due to high rates of uptake but others clearly do.

So as far as you're concerned, the government can mandate anything they see fit, as long as they feel it is in the best interest of the country, yes? 

 

How does mandating everyone be vaccinated "...combat the politicization of the anti vax propaganda."?

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So as far as you're concerned, the government can mandate anything they see fit, as long as they feel it is in the best interest of the country, yes? 

As long as the medical profession as a whole recommends it, yes.

 

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

How does mandating everyone be vaccinated "...combat the politicization of the anti vax propaganda."?

Because there is a large cohort of politically motivated narcissists who don't care that masses of people die just so they can continue the criminal characterisation of the virus as some kind of Chinese hoax. The motive is to ensure failure of the pandemic response and economy for political gain.

[steven100]

tell him he could likely die if he isn't vaccinated.  tell him if he's vaccinated he make get sick but unlikely to die.

 

enough said .....

[Yellowtail]

13 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

As long as the medical profession as a whole recommends it, yes.

Has "...the medical profession as a whole..." been consulted? 

 

13 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Because there is a large cohort of politically motivated narcissists who don't care that masses of people die just so they can continue the criminal characterisation of the virus as some kind of Chinese hoax. The motive is to ensure failure of the pandemic response and economy for political gain.

I understand that, but I do not understand how mandating everyone be vaccinated combats the politicization of the anti vax propaganda. If anything it seems to stoke it up.

 

I do not know anyone that thinks it's a hoax, I certainly do not, yet when one comes out against mandates, I'm accused of thinking it's a hoax. President Biden was against mandates until his recent flip-flop. 

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Has "...the medical profession as a whole..." been consulted? 

 

I understand that, but I do not understand how mandating everyone be vaccinated combats the politicization of the anti vax propaganda. If anything it seems to stoke it up.

 

I do not know anyone that thinks it's a hoax, I certainly do not, yet when one comes out against mandates, I'm accused of thinking it's a hoax. President Biden was against mandates until his recent flip-flop. 

Biden has "flip flopped" because the medical profession has recommended mandates.

 

Here is some additional context for you to reflect on if you think the mandate is a novel approach.

 

Of the 16 immunizations the CDC recommends for children and teens, all 50 states (plus the District of Columbia) mandate diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis (whooping cough), polio, measles, rubella and chickenpox. In addition, every state except Iowa mandates immunization against mumps.

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/08/states-have-mandated-vaccinations-since-long-before-covid-19/

Edited October 24, 2021 by ozimoron

[Jeffr2]

48 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Your tag: "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.", and the fact that you are always discussing me rather than the issue proves what I already know. 

At least my tag isn't political. And not true.

[Jeffr2]

17 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Has "...the medical profession as a whole..." been consulted? 

 

I understand that, but I do not understand how mandating everyone be vaccinated combats the politicization of the anti vax propaganda. If anything it seems to stoke it up.

 

I do not know anyone that thinks it's a hoax, I certainly do not, yet when one comes out against mandates, I'm accused of thinking it's a hoax. President Biden was against mandates until his recent flip-flop. 

The far right talks about mandates every day. It's a huge issue for that camp. Typically. "They can't tell me what to do! ".

 

It's been politicized. Sadly.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

So as far as you're concerned, the government can mandate anything they see fit, as long as they feel it is in the best interest of the country, yes? 

 

How does mandating everyone be vaccinated "...combat the politicization of the anti vax propaganda."?

Nonsense. This is a public health issue. And the steps that the government is taking are backed by public health researchers.

[Yellowtail]

36 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Nonsense. This is a public health issue. And the steps that the government is taking are backed by public health researchers.

At least the researchers that agree with them. 

 

When were all the "public health researchers" canvased? 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

At least the researchers that agree with them. 

 

When were all the "public health researchers" canvased? 

which researchers don't agree and how many are they?

Edited October 24, 2021 by ozimoron

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

which researchers don't agree and how many are they?

I was asking you guys. I never said they all agreed, that was you and your pals. 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

I was asking you guys. I never said they all agreed, that was you and your pals. 

Ok, there's none. Your post implied that there may be some researchers who did not agree with them. Otherwise, what was the point of your post?

Edited October 24, 2021 by ozimoron

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

The far right talks about mandates every day. It's a huge issue for that camp. Typically. "They can't tell me what to do! ".

 

It's been politicized. Sadly.

I wouldn't know. Fortunately, you and I are both centrists. 

[placeholder]

 

11 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

At least the researchers that agree with them. 

 

When were all the "public health researchers" canvased? 

Ya think these organization are acting in defiance of the consensus of public health researchers?

 

Major Health Care Professional Organizations Call for COVID-19 Vaccine Mandates for All Health Workers

Groups include American Medical Association, American Nurses Association, American Academy of Pediatrics, Association of American Medical Colleges, and National Association for Home Care and Hospice

https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/press-releases/major-health-care-professional-organizations-call-covid-19-vaccine-mandates-all-health-workers

 

Federal Research Bolsters the Case for Vaccine Mandates

ust a day after President Biden issued broad mandates aimed at encouraging American workers to get vaccinated against the coronavirus, federal health officials released new data showing that unvaccinated Americans are 11 times as likely as vaccinated people to die of Covid-19.

Three large studies, published on Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, also highlighted the effectiveness of the shots at preventing infection and hospitalizations with the virus.

The research underscored a deep conviction among scientists that vaccine hesitancy and refusal have prolonged the pandemic.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/10/health/coronavirus-vaccine-mandate.html

Edited October 24, 2021 by placeholder

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 

Ya think these organization are acting in defiance of the consensus of public health researchers?

 

Major Health Care Professional Organizations Call for COVID-19 Vaccine Mandates for All Health Workers

Groups include American Medical Association, American Nurses Association, American Academy of Pediatrics, Association of American Medical Colleges, and National Association for Home Care and Hospice

https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/press-releases/major-health-care-professional-organizations-call-covid-19-vaccine-mandates-all-health-workers

I am only asking how the consensus was arrived at, and who does it represent.

 

I remember when we had a "consensus" of psychiatrists that clamed Trump was mentally unstable, and a "consensus" of attorneys claiming he would be incarcerated by now. 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I am only asking how the consensus was arrived at, and who does it represent.

 

I remember when we had a "consensus" of psychiatrists that clamed Trump was mentally unstable, and a "consensus" of attorneys claiming he would be incarcerated by now. 

Does this constitute a good enough consensus? Do you think all these people are politically biased.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/psychiatrists-submit-warning-trumps-mental-health-deteriorating-2019-12?r=US&IR=T

[Yellowtail]

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 

Federal Research Bolsters the Case for Vaccine Mandates

ust a day after President Biden issued broad mandates aimed at encouraging American workers to get vaccinated against the coronavirus, federal health officials released new data showing that unvaccinated Americans are 11 times as likely as vaccinated people to die of Covid-19.

Three large studies, published on Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, also highlighted the effectiveness of the shots at preventing infection and hospitalizations with the virus.

The research underscored a deep conviction among scientists that vaccine hesitancy and refusal have prolonged the pandemic.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/10/health/coronavirus-vaccine-mandate.html

So the administration's researchers agree with the administration's mandates, and just it time! 

 

Shocking 

[placeholder]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

I am only asking how the consensus was arrived at, and who does it represent.

 

I remember when we had a "consensus" of psychiatrists that clamed Trump was mentally unstable, and a "consensus" of attorneys claiming he would be incarcerated by now. 

Really, there was a consensus of attorneys that Trump would be in prison by now? You're probably closer to the truth when it comes to psychiatrists, but that is a ludicrously easy judgement to arrive at. Still, neither of these instances has anything to do with epidemiology.

 

The consensus for epidemiologist is pretty easy to arrive at. We know that Delta has a high RO. So it's going to take a very high percentage of the population to thwart the spread of delta. At least 85%. 

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So the administration's researchers agree with the administration's mandates, and just it time! 

 

Shocking 

and the case for the opposition is where?

 

Do you believe the case for mandates is politically motivated? To what end?

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by ozimoron

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So the administration's researchers agree with the administration's mandates, and just it time! 

 

Shocking 

You really don't understand now science works do you? The CDC doesn't just make claims. It backs them up with an extraordinarily deep level of statistical research. That's how public health works. But I guess when you've got nothing, then claiming "fake science" is one way to go.

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Does this constitute a good enough consensus? Do you think all these people are politically biased.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/psychiatrists-submit-warning-trumps-mental-health-deteriorating-2019-12?r=US&IR=T

Wow, 350 healthcare professionals out of 22 million. Yes, that must be bordering on 97%...

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Really, there was a consensus of attorneys that Trump would be in prison by now? You're probably closer to the truth when it comes to psychiatrists, but that is a ludicrously easy judgement to arrive at. Still, neither of these instances has anything to do with epidemiology.

 

The consensus for epidemiologist is pretty easy to arrive at. We know that Delta has a high RO. So it's going to take a very high percentage of the population to thwart the spread of delta. At least 85%. 

Okay, we know (per you) that the consensus is pretty easy to arrive at, so how did we arrive at it, and where is it? 

 

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Wow, 350 healthcare professionals out of 22 million. Yes, that must be bordering on 97%...

These 350 psychiatric professionals put their credibility on the line. Where are the professionals who called them out on it?

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Wow, 350 healthcare professionals out of 22 million. Yes, that must be bordering on 97%...

Are you aware that just a few minutes ago you claimed that there was a consensus among psychiatrists that Trump was mentally unstable? Now you're questioning it?

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

These 350 psychiatric professionals...

It did not say 350 psychiatric professionals, please do not make things up. 

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

...put their credibility on the line.

What credibility? 

 

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Where are the professionals who called them out on it?

The other 22 million that did not sign the petition.