Why should I inject a vaccine that could kill me when I have no risk to be sick with covid ? A Thai boy told me, what can I reply him to push for vaccination ?

[Danderman123]

8 hours ago, codemonkey said:

The covid vaccine may prevent transmission and death, but just not very well as we see in the numbers now. Do keep in mind though that after everyone is vaccinated all new covid infections and deaths will be in vaccinated and there will be no more bias.

There are lots of countries now with high vaccination levels and low numbers of new infections. 

[Jeffr2]

8 hours ago, Scott said:

I am not sure what the fascination is with breakthrough cases is.  They are still rather rare.  I saw something on television that cited 7,000+ documented cases in the US but I can't cite a source.  

Here's what we know.  The vaccines are highly effective, but less effective with the Delta variant.   The first groups to be vaccinated were older people and those at high risk of complications.  That group would also be at higher risk for breakthrough cases.  High risk groups are also more likely to get hospitalized and to die from a breakthrough case.  (Colin Powell is a good example).

Later groups who were vaccinated would still be maintaining higher antibody levels and included fewer high risk individuals.   Breakthrough cases in these groups have been less.  The problem with tracking many of these is that very mild or asymptomatic cases may not have received any medical attention.  

 

The places with the highest breakthrough cases are also the places with the lowest vaccination rates and the highest number of covid cases.   Two states, for example, are Alaska and Arkansas.  Arkansas has the highest percent of breakthrough cases at .54%.  It is also one of the states with the highest number of overall cases.  

It's impossible to have an intelligent discussion with covid deniers and anti vaxxers.  I guess your medical professional is the exception.  They've fallen for the fake news, or, just have a disposition towards conspiracy theories.  As readily admitted by a few members here.

 

Misinformation doesn't help. And it's everywhere out there.  I did a fact check with my Fox News loving friend a few months ago.  Showed in detail that what Tucker was saying was misleading and false.  Tried to show her how to fact check.  Her reply?  "I don't have the time to do that.".  Incredible.  Luckily, they're in the minority.

[cdemundo]

12 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Do you have something that supports the 96%? 

   14 hours ago,  cdemundo said: 

"Sorry I edited it.

You are absolutely correct, I was pulling that number out of the air.

But I know it is greater than 96% from the quote I added, I am still gonna say that the number of anti-vax MDs is vanishingly small."

 

Yellowtail responded: Do you have something that supports the 96%? 

 

4 freakin' lines he responded to and he couldn't be bothered to read and understand them.

I pointed out in the 4 lines:

"I edited it... But I know it is greater than 96% from the quote I added..."

 

You don't bother to read and understand what others post.

So I did not have support for 99.99%, it is really only documented to be greater than 96%.

 

 

[AwwYesNice1]

Mods should close this topic and it's platform for idiots.

[Yellowtail]

59 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

   14 hours ago,  cdemundo said: 

"Sorry I edited it.

You are absolutely correct, I was pulling that number out of the air.

But I know it is greater than 96% from the quote I added, I am still gonna say that the number of anti-vax MDs is vanishingly small."

 

Yellowtail responded: Do you have something that supports the 96%? 

 

4 freakin' lines he responded to and he couldn't be bothered to read and understand them.

I pointed out in the 4 lines:

"I edited it... But I know it is greater than 96% from the quote I added..."

 

You don't bother to read and understand what others post.

So I did not have support for 99.99%, it is really only documented to be greater than 96%.

 

 

As posted previously, just because  people are vaccinated, does not mean that they want to mandate everyone be mandated. That you see to think it does speaks to your thought process. 

 

I'm fully vaccinated yet I am called an anti-vaxer by you and others here.

 

Again, how are we defining "support vaccinations"?

[Yellowtail]

48 minutes ago, AwwYesNice1 said:

Mods should close this topic and it's platform for idiots.

Is that why you're here? 

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

It's impossible to have an intelligent discussion with covid deniers and anti vaxxers.  I guess your medical professional is the exception.  They've fallen for the fake news, or, just have a disposition towards conspiracy theories.  As readily admitted by a few members here.

I imagine it is impossible for you to have "an intelligent discussion" with anyone that disagrees with you, which is why you have to resort to ad hominem attacks.

 

I asked you to define supporting vaccinations and you haven't. You claim doctors that have been vaccinated are vaccination supporters, yet claim that people you dissagree with that have been vaccinated are covid deniers and anti vaxxers.

 

This is a common tactic of you, and people like you. 

 

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Misinformation doesn't help. And it's everywhere out there.  I did a fact check with my Fox News loving friend a few months ago.  Showed in detail that what Tucker was saying was misleading and false.  Tried to show her how to fact check.  Her reply?  "I don't have the time to do that.".  Incredible.  Luckily, they're in the minority.

Everyone seems to have friends that conveniently support their position...

 

What was "Tucker saying" that was misleading anyway? 

[robblok]

15 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

As posted previously, just because  people are vaccinated, does not mean that they want to mandate everyone be mandated. That you see to think it does speaks to your thought process. 

 

I'm fully vaccinated yet I am called an anti-vaxer by you and others here.

 

Again, how are we defining "support vaccinations"?

You know you are a person without any principles. You sprout antivax nonsense but obviously you don't think the risks are high otherwise you would never have taken the vaccine. 

 

So either you have no backbone, or you think the risk of vaccination is not that high. 

 

There is a difference between FORCING everyone to take the vaccine or persuading them to take it. DR's want to persuade and do want different rules for those who are not vaccinated.

 

Though in my country there were doctors that said that people who are not vaccinated are a curse as the take up space that could better be used for others. They also DO support the covid pass and other stuff to make people vaccinate 

Edited October 24, 2021 by robblok

[Jeffr2]

12 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

As posted previously, just because  people are vaccinated, does not mean that they want to mandate everyone be mandated. That you see to think it does speaks to your thought process. 

 

I'm fully vaccinated yet I am called an anti-vaxer by you and others here.

 

Again, how are we defining "support vaccinations"?

Our only way out of this mess is for everyone to be vaccinated.  Those against mandates don't help.  Since you are fully vaccinated, why go against this?  Doesn't make sense.  But you bash the left, so I'm guessing you've made this political.  Which is the biggest problem we have.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I imagine it is impossible for you to have "an intelligent discussion" with anyone that disagrees with you, which is why you have to resort to ad hominem attacks.

 

I asked you to define supporting vaccinations and you haven't. You claim doctors that have been vaccinated are vaccination supporters, yet claim that people you dissagree with that have been vaccinated are covid deniers and anti vaxxers.

 

This is a common tactic of you, and people like you. 

 

Everyone seems to have friends that conveniently support their position...

 

What was "Tucker saying" that was misleading anyway? 

Here's a few lies and nonsense from Carlson

https://news.yahoo.com/tucker-carlson-makes-totally-untrue-034841033.html

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/may/06/tucker-carlson/tucker-carlsons-misleading-claim-about-deaths-afte/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/21/tucker-carlson-outdoes-himself-vaccines-again/

 

 

[Jeffr2]

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I imagine it is impossible for you to have "an intelligent discussion" with anyone that disagrees with you, which is why you have to resort to ad hominem attacks.

 

I asked you to define supporting vaccinations and you haven't. You claim doctors that have been vaccinated are vaccination supporters, yet claim that people you dissagree with that have been vaccinated are covid deniers and anti vaxxers.

 

This is a common tactic of you, and people like you. 

 

Everyone seems to have friends that conveniently support their position...

 

What was "Tucker saying" that was misleading anyway? 

It's a long list of the misleading statements Tucker has said.  Even his lawyer admits he doesn't tell the truth and is just there for entertainment.  Sad he has so many followers.

[redwood1]

15 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

It's a long list of the misleading statements Tucker has said.  Even his lawyer admits he doesn't tell the truth and is just there for entertainment.  Sad he has so many followers.

For you anyone that questions the vax at all.....Is a tin-foil hat wearing ,conspiracy theorist nutcase..............I guess Tucker is a nutcase like anyone else that questions things.....

[Jeffr2]

25 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

For you anyone that questions the vax at all.....Is a tin-foil hat wearing ,conspiracy theorist nutcase..............I guess Tucker is a nutcase like anyone else that questions things.....

Most here argue against the vax for BS reasons.  A lot of it is political, like the member above who just loves to bash the left.  Several here put up links to super dodgy websites to prove their arguments. 

 

Give me a good reason not to be vaccinated during the worst pandemic in our lifetimes, and one that's already killed perhaps 10MM+ people. With more to come. 

 

P.S. I just don't want it isn't a valid argument.  Tucker isn't a nutcase.  He's doing what he does to make money.  Over 20MM USD a year.  He's one of the worst things to happen to us.  Guaranteed.  Stunning so many actually believe his lies and misinformation.

 

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/917747123/you-literally-cant-believe-the-facts-tucker-carlson-tells-you-so-say-fox-s-lawye

 

You Literally Can't Believe The Facts Tucker Carlson Tells You. So Say Fox's Lawyers

 

Just read U.S. District Judge Mary Kay Vyskocil's opinion, leaning heavily on the arguments of Fox's lawyers: The "'general tenor' of the show should then inform a viewer that [Carlson] is not 'stating actual facts' about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary.' "

 

She wrote: "Fox persuasively argues, that given Mr. Carlson's reputation, any reasonable viewer 'arrive[s] with an appropriate amount of skepticism' about the statement he makes."

[robblok]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Here's a few lies and nonsense from Carlson

https://news.yahoo.com/tucker-carlson-makes-totally-untrue-034841033.html

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/may/06/tucker-carlson/tucker-carlsons-misleading-claim-about-deaths-afte/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/21/tucker-carlson-outdoes-himself-vaccines-again/

 

 

Could it be that mainly Trump lovers are antivaxers ? 

 

That guy Carlson a republican mouthpiece is spreading lies on TV. I guess the freedom to lie (eh speech) is a great thing in the US. Too bad that many believe those lies. 

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

What was "Tucker saying" that was misleading anyway? 

It doesn't matter, his own lawyer made that argument in court.

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, redwood1 said:

For you anyone that questions the vax at all.....Is a tin-foil hat wearing ,conspiracy theorist nutcase..............I guess Tucker is a nutcase like anyone else that questions things.....

There is an extremely close correlation between far right Trumpians and anti vax sentiments. There is NO scientific proof that vaccines are dangerous in comparison to the risks associated with the virus itself, especially when considering other people. You need not wonder why you get get blow back when you align with the flat earthers and those with a clear political agenda, regardless of whether you identify with that demographic or not. It is antithetical to the public interest to make the case that there is any justification in refusing a vaccination.

 

When Carlson's own lawyer makes the case that reasonable people should not believe him then what does that say about those who do?

Edited October 24, 2021 by ozimoron

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

You know you are a person without any principles. You sprout antivax nonsense but obviously you don't think the risks are high otherwise you would never have taken the vaccine. 

I'm going to call you a liar unless you can point to some instance of me "sprouting" (or even spouting antivax nonsense) or unless you apologize.

 

I assume you meant to say I do think the risk is high, otherwise I never would have gotten vaccinated. That I got vaccinated does not mean I think the risk is high. I don't think the risk of getting shingles is high, but I had got vaccinated for that a few years ago. I think the Pfizer vaccine is generally safe and effective, and feel that as with the shingles vaccine, the benefit outweighed the risk.

 

1 hour ago, robblok said:

So either you have no backbone, or you think the risk of vaccination is not that high. 

 

There is a difference between FORCING everyone to take the vaccine or persuading them to take it. DR's want to persuade and do want different rules for those who are not vaccinated.

 

Though in my country there were doctors that said that people who are not vaccinated are a curse as the take up space that could better be used for others. They also DO support the covid pass and other stuff to make people vaccinate 

Unlike you, I will not pretend to speak for ALL doctors, but I doubt very much the vast majority of US doctors believe the government should compel everyone to be vaccinated. Perhaps it's different in countries where the doctors are most all civil-servants. I will concede that most every doctor that gets on TV supports mandating vaccines. 

 

In any event, I have never tried to talk anyone into or out of being vaccinated. 

[Jeffr2]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I'm going to call you a liar unless you can point to some instance of me "sprouting" (or even spouting antivax nonsense) or unless you apologize.

 

I assume you meant to say I do think the risk is high, otherwise I never would have gotten vaccinated. That I got vaccinated does not mean I think the risk is high. I don't think the risk of getting shingles is high, but I had got vaccinated for that a few years ago. I think the Pfizer vaccine is generally safe and effective, and feel that as with the shingles vaccine, the benefit outweighed the risk.

 

Unlike you, I will not pretend to speak for ALL doctors, but I doubt very much the vast majority of US doctors believe the government should compel everyone to be vaccinated. Perhaps it's different in countries where the doctors are most all civil-servants. I will concede that most every doctor that gets on TV supports mandating vaccines. 

 

In any event, I have never tried to talk anyone into or out of being vaccinated. 

Your tag says it all.  You've made this political. Sad.

 

Quote

The left loves science, Empirical data? Not so much.

 

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Our only way out of this mess is for everyone to be vaccinated.  Those against mandates don't help.  Since you are fully vaccinated, why go against this?

I get a flu shot every year, should I petition the government to compel everyone to get one? I think the government should let people do as they wish for the most part. 

 

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Doesn't make sense.  But you bash the left, so I'm guessing you've made this political.  Which is the biggest problem we have.

I've made it political? That's hilarious. 

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

It's a long list of the misleading statements Tucker has said.  Even his lawyer admits he doesn't tell the truth and is just there for entertainment.  Sad he has so many followers.

I am only asking you for the one claimed to be discussing with your "friend" and you come back with the "too many to list" response. Typical.

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

I get a flu shot every year, should I petition the government to compel everyone to get one? I think the government should let people do as they wish for the most part. 

 

I've made it political? That's hilarious. 

Please don't compare the flu to coronavirus.  That's ridiculous.

 

Yes, you've made this political.  That's a proven fact. 

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

I am only asking you for the one claimed to be discussing with your "friend" and you come back with the "too many to list" response. Typical.

It had to do with vaccines being effective.  And helping to reduce the number of cases of the virus.  Since you watch Tucker, you'll know he's been an anti vaxxer and covid denier since the start.

[ozimoron]

Quote

“During a town hall with CNN this week, President Joe Biden falsely accused unvaccinated Americans of wanting to infect others with Wuhan coronavirus. He made the outrageous smear and allegation while claiming freedom was the excuse being used to do so.”

This is 100% true just on its surface. WE know that unvaccinated people are the biggest infection vector. That can't be disputed. One of the chief reasons cited for opposing vaccine mandates is personal freedom, an argument completely unrelated to the scientific justification for getting a vaccine. The most generous conclusion one could make from vaccine reluctance is that those who refuse to vaccinate don't care if others are infected (or die). There is no smear here. Those who refuse vaccines against coronavirus are reprehensible in the extreme. Or, as Hilary Clinton put it, the deplorables.

Edited October 24, 2021 by ozimoron

[Rimmer]

A social media video and post have been removed

[Jai Dee]

A couple of off-topic Biden bashing troll posts and replies have been removed.

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

It had to do with vaccines being effective.  And helping to reduce the number of cases of the virus.  Since you watch Tucker, you'll know he's been an anti vaxxer and covid denier since the start.

Please don't tell lies about me. 

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Please don't compare the flu to coronavirus.  That's ridiculous.

 

Yes, you've made this political.  That's a proven fact. 

Again with the lies, you've proven nothing. As always, you seem to believe that if you say it, that proves it. 

 

So you would be against mandating flu shots or any vaccinations except the coronavirus, correct? 

[Yellowtail]

Flu vaccination requirement for UC students, faculty and staff issued for 2021-2022

 

Flu vaccination requirement for UC students, faculty and staff issued for 2021-2022 | UCnet (universityofcalifornia.edu)

[ozimoron]

34 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So you would be against mandating flu shots or any vaccinations except the coronavirus, correct? 

Coronavirus is far more dangerous and deadly than the flu. There's an obvious case for mandating coronavirus vaccines in the public interest. Only those who consider it a hoax or some kind of conspiracy would think otherwise. Even those people who have survived the disease should understand their responsibility to help keep others safe from it and get vaccinated. I'm not suggesting you disagree with this, putting a fine point on the issue. I think anyone who is skeptical of the vaccines at all is doing mankind a huge disservice.

[Jeffr2]

48 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Again with the lies, you've proven nothing. As always, you seem to believe that if you say it, that proves it. 

 

So you would be against mandating flu shots or any vaccinations except the coronavirus, correct? 

Your tag.  Proves what I'm saying.  You've made things political.  Sad.

 

Quote

The left loves science, Empirical data? Not so much.