2nd Dose If Given A Choice: AZ or Sinovac? (Sinovac 1st Dose Already Completed)

[A Display Name]

I was fortunate enough to get a slot on the thailandintervac expatriates site during the short time it was open back in mid-June. Sinovac appointments were all that were available when I got through and I happily grabbed an appointment before it disappeared. Since the beginning of all of this, I've been of the mindset to get vaccinated with what is available to me and get something better (if necessary) when it becomes available to me. Delta will almost certainly mean I will need something better down the road, but I have no regrets that I took the shot that was made available to me.

 

I'm struggling with how to ask the question without this thread becoming another one of the many threads that have been highjacked with similar arguments over and over, so I'll just ask - please keep help to keep on topic. I have to make a decision on short order and would really appreciate any pertinant real information.

 

My second shot is coming up tomorrow. I reached out to confirm that I'd be getting AZ for my second shot (given the mixed vaccine directive announced in early July). I expected a short "Yes, you'll get AZ" answer - but to my surprise, I was told I'd get Sinovac by default. They then proceeded to tell me I could request AZ and I could switch (assuming AZ availability on the day of appointment, which is not guaranteed). While part of me is happy I might have a choice and won't have the mixing of vaccines forced on me, a bigger part of me didn't want to have that decision to make under short notice. Now, I'm trying to do a crash course education session so I make the best choice available to me. I've read as many threads as I can on here and researched on other sites, but as you all know - information on this is hard to find at this stage.

 

Is there any information out there that anyone has read that would help with that decision if you were the one making it?  With an mRNA vaccine booster likely unavailable to me until next year, I'm feeling a bit of pressure with this decision. I'm leaning towards requesting AZ as the second shot, but do have some lingering concerns about mixing. When they first announced the Sinovac and AZ mixing approach, my big concern was that it wasn't safe to do so. However, to the best of my knowledge, they have been doing this mixing for at least a few weeks and I haven't seen any big red flags from those that have mixed vaccines. Has anyone seen anything contrary to that?

 

But to restate, the decision I'm debating is between (1) Sinovac-Sinovac and (2) Sinovac-AZ since I've already gotten Sinovac for my first shot. Just looking for help with what I can control and not all the external factors I can't. I can't undo the shot I've already gotten (nor would I want to undo it) and none of the mRNA vaccines are available to me at this immediate moment for the decision at hand, so no need for me to wish for what I can't have. The reality is that I'm staying upbeat and come this time tomorrow, I'm going to be happy either way ... but obviously, I'd like to make the best decision with the facts I can scrounge up between now and then.

 

I'm also curious if others still got the Sinovac-Sinovac combination recently? I saw a couple posts in the past couple weeks saying "I'm on my way for my second shot and assuming it will be AZ" but couldn't find any follow up on whether that is what was actually provided.

 

Thanks much in advance for any real help you might be able to provide - it will be much appreciated.

[internationalism]

the AZ as a second or as a booster is only for medics, not for the rest

[oldcpu]

I have posted this in a couple of threads already - but it gives information that compares does of Sinovac and AstraZeneca.  First let me say thou, that my view is the best vaccine is the vaccine you can get.  If you need to wait 6 to 9 months for a different vaccine, and if there are rising COVID cases where you live, it may not be prudent to wait the 6 to 9 months for a different vaccine, and may be better to go for the vaccine you can get now.

 

Now wrt comparing jabs, my understanding is there are studies in progress, possibly close to completion - giving the decision makers enough information that they have decided it prudent to proceed to allow mixing of jabs.

 

I note the following chart from an ongoing Thai study into mixing vaccines (Sinovac and AstraZeneca).  The Thai language reference is here:  https://mgronline.com/qol/detail/9640000072391

 

Below is a reduced version of the chart from that article:.

The chart compares:

• Sinovac - full (2 jab) vaccination.
• Sinovac 1 jab + 2nd jab AstraZeneca.
• AstraZeneca - 2 jabs.
• Sinovac 2 jabs + 3rd-booster jab AstraZeneca <<<<<< this gives the best of those of the top 4 points in this bullet list (vaccine jabs) compared.
• Pfizer two jabs - however the Pfizer data is very very limited so it result is most possibly much much higher/better for Pfizer than shown in the plot (ie there probably was not point to show such IMHO).

   

Natural infection (resistance) - ie if I understand this correctly, refers to someone who has caught the virus (4 to 8 weeks after catching the virus) - note the spread is very high - ie varies massively from person to person.

 

So I think this (close to completion (?) study) helps illustrate why AstraZeneca is considered useful as a booster jab to Medical Workers who have had 2 Sinovac (only) jabs. .... I also think this 'ongoing' study is against the delta variant < not sure >

[A Display Name]

@internationalism- thanks for response. I understood that using AZ as a 3rd booster shot was for medical staff, but all the articles I read seemed to indicate that the "AZ as a second shot approach" was for everyone, not just medical staff. If what you said is true, I'll still probably decide beforehand and ask (if I decide on AZ), then maybe it won't matter if I can't get approved. (Forbes article and BBC article)

 

@oldcpu - completely aligned with you in regards to the best vaccine being the one available. That's why I jumped on the Sinovac 1st shot with no regrets. Now that I might have the two available to me for shot #2, just making sure to do as much due dilegence as possible. I did read that article you posted and it was one of the most useful in helping with the decision. Thanks for posting. What it doesn't mention at all is are there any side effects of mixing, which is one of the first concerns that popped up in regards to this. It seems the short-term negative side effect concerns have subsided a bit(?) - I haven't seen any big issues so far with this approach. If AZ was more readily available, the S+S+AZ option would be great ... but slim to no chance AZ will be available (and even if it is, it would be better used on an unvaccinated person than on me at that point). 

[treetops]

I have a mate in a similar position who has been offered a choice for his second jab after getting Sinovac for the first at Phyathai, so not just for medical staff.  His letter from the hospital gave no indication that it was subject to availability but was on offer for anyone requesting it.

 

My inclination would be to take a second dose of Sinovac, purely for the reason that I believe it will allow easier overseas travel in a shorter timeframe which is important to me - YMMV.  Medically the AZ might be the better option looking at the figure posted above, but not much in it.

[Scouse123]

From what I have read I would go far AZ every time.

 

I got AZ in June in Kalasin and my next appointment is beginning of September and as far as I know, it's AZ again.

 

I really hope so. If they say they only have Sinovac, I will accept it as "Hobson's choice", if a choice I will take AZ, but then, either way, I will be actively searching to pay for an Moderna, Pfizer, or whatever shot as a booster.

 

I am not fearful, but I firmly believe the science in that a fully vaccinated person prevents death, long Covid symptoms, or severe illness and hospitalization.

[Scouse123]

9 hours ago, treetops said:

I have a mate in a similar position who has been offered a choice for his second jab after getting Sinovac for the first at Phyathai, so not just for medical staff.  His letter from the hospital gave no indication that it was subject to availability but was on offer for anyone requesting it.

 

My inclination would be to take a second dose of Sinovac, purely for the reason that I believe it will allow easier overseas travel in a shorter timeframe which is important to me - YMMV.  Medically the AZ might be the better option looking at the figure posted above, but not much in it.

I don't understand the part of your post "it will allow overseas travel in a shorter timeframe" to take Sinovac as opposed to AZ.

 

Why? If you have a choice of either vaccine, how would it affect travel?

 

I am not sure the EU, USA and UK recognize Sinovac as acceptable for entry?

 

I may be wrong.

[rwill]

On the 20th I got my second shot.  I called the hospital, Phayathai 2, a couple of days before that to see if I could change the second shot to AZ.  They told me the government had not directed them to do that and I would still get Sinovac, which I did.

 

As a note when I went for the first shot they had booths for both AZ and Sinovac.  The second time there was only Sinovac.  They may be doing AZ and Sinovac on different days now.

[Scouse123]

I am due my second jab beginning of September and I refuse to worry about things that I have no control over, as in Sinovac or AZ vaccine.

 

The efficacy of AZ as we all know is better and longer lasting but if only Sinovac available with 50% overall efficacy, although there are deep concerns about Sinovac and not protecting against the Delta variant.I will still take it and be thankful.

 

As my mother used to say ' 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing "

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Scouse123

[DrPhibes]

7 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

I don't understand the part of your post "it will allow overseas travel in a shorter timeframe" to take Sinovac as opposed to AZ.

 

Why? If you have a choice of either vaccine, how would it affect travel?

 

I am not sure the EU, USA and UK recognize Sinovac as acceptable for entry?

 

I may be wrong.

Canada I know does not recognize Sinovac at this time, the US has a quarantine/test system in place.

[KhunBENQ]

It's now official policy to apply Sinovac as a first jab followed by AstraZeneca.

I am up for it, first shot tomorrow.

See also here:

 

[hotchilli]

Keep the second appointment, get jabbed with whatever you can get... AZ if possible

Look for a 3rd jab of something better later.

[MrJ2U]

Astra.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, rwill said:

On the 20th I got my second shot.  I called the hospital, Phayathai 2, a couple of days before that to see if I could change the second shot to AZ.  They told me the government had not directed them to do that and I would still get Sinovac, which I did.

 

As a note when I went for the first shot they had booths for both AZ and Sinovac.  The second time there was only Sinovac.  They may be doing AZ and Sinovac on different days now.

I was there yesterday. They were definitely doing both. 

[A Display Name]

There was no question of keeping the appointment or not - it was going to definitely be kept. Also, the option of requesting AZ was possible, so the due dilegence on which to ask for was time well spent. I agree not to won't worry about what I can't control, but here there was at least the potentional of having some control.

 

I just finished up and ultimately, they initially did give me a slip for second dose of Sinovac. I do believe that while Sinovac overall efficacy is lower (pretty clear info on that), Sinovac does provide fairly good protection against severe symptoms. On the other hand, the info on Sinovac-AZ mix is extremely limited. For that reason, it wasn't a clear cut choice, but I did decide was comfortable with the mix (and the added protection it hopefully provides), so asked to change. It added about an hour to the trip as they redid paperwork, etc., but they were able to make the switch.

 

In regards to it being official policy, that seems to be the case but it appears the next few weeks are going to dictated on getting more AZ doses so that they can actually follow that policy. For those coming up on their appointment for a second dose of Sinovac, I think for the next short while it will stay Sinovac. I saw a lot of people with "Sinovac Shot 2" paperwork today, so clearly that is still the approach being used.

 

Also, the process today was much less organized then when I got the first shot four weeks ago. Four weeks ago was great - everything was clear, fast and well done. Today wasn't bad by any means, but they have completely changed how (and where) they are doing both initial registration and the vaccinations. It wasn't nearly as well organized and there were quite a few confused people. The staff was great and very helpful, which helped offset this for the most part. Kudos to them.

 

[houstoniron]

1 hour ago, A Display Name said:

There was no question of keeping the appointment or not - it was going to definitely be kept. Also, the option of requesting AZ was possible, so the due dilegence on which to ask for was time well spent. I agree not to won't worry about what I can't control, but here there was at least the potentional of having some control.

 

I just finished up and ultimately, they initially did give me a slip for second dose of Sinovac. I do believe that while Sinovac overall efficacy is lower (pretty clear info on that), Sinovac does provide fairly good protection against severe symptoms. On the other hand, the info on Sinovac-AZ mix is extremely limited. For that reason, it wasn't a clear cut choice, but I did decide was comfortable with the mix (and the added protection it hopefully provides), so asked to change. It added about an hour to the trip as they redid paperwork, etc., but they were able to make the switch.

 

In regards to it being official policy, that seems to be the case but it appears the next few weeks are going to dictated on getting more AZ doses so that they can actually follow that policy. For those coming up on their appointment for a second dose of Sinovac, I think for the next short while it will stay Sinovac. I saw a lot of people with "Sinovac Shot 2" paperwork today, so clearly that is still the approach being used.

 

Also, the process today was much less organized then when I got the first shot four weeks ago. Four weeks ago was great - everything was clear, fast and well done. Today wasn't bad by any means, but they have completely changed how (and where) they are doing both initial registration and the vaccinations. It wasn't nearly as well organized and there were quite a few confused people. The staff was great and very helpful, which helped offset this for the most part. Kudos to them.

 

 

[houstoniron]

There is a lot of information here, I did read the comments and if I were in your situation I would be totally confused.

 

Now to muddy the water further 

 

The World Health Organization came out with a recommendation NOT to mix vaccine types. The reason given in their press release was because the combinations have not been properly tested and validated as safe.

 

Thailand clearly does not agree with this recommendation

 

i am cautious about mixing vaccines because they work on the body radically differently

 

I fear that Thailand is becoming a huge testing population. I agree with you that the best vaccine so the one you can get.

 

Eventually nRNA vaccines will be available here but I don’t think you will be able to choose them until late next year.

 

I probably would go with two vaccines the same type

 

I read many comments that say the Chinese vaccines are no good. That is very wrong, all the vaccines available in thailand are good vaccines and have good efficacy. Flu vaccine efficacy is just over 50% the Covid vaccines are all tested at greater than 90% so they are all very good vaccines. The question still to be answered is how long does protection last. The key though is to get a vaccine on board. With no vaccine you have zero protection

 

I hope this helps, the government has really confused people with their current strategy

 

i know of no other country that is mixing vaccines

[treetops]

4 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

I don't understand the part of your post "it will allow overseas travel in a shorter timeframe" to take Sinovac as opposed to AZ.

 

Why? If you have a choice of either vaccine, how would it affect travel?

Double doses of the same vaccine are either approved, or much further down the approval loop, than mixed doses.  I think it'll be several months at least before mixed doses are approved, and even 2 x Sinovac will be accepted much sooner.

 

If/when full vaccination becomes a pre-requisite, you'll be ale to travel much sooner if you don't mix them IMO.

[MrJ2U]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I was there yesterday. They were definitely doing both. 

Is there a choice or is it like a Russian roulette thing?

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, MrJ2U said:

Is there a choice or is it like a Russian roulette thing?

It's determined at registration. I think in general they are giving over age 60 people AstraZeneca. 

[MrJ2U]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's determined at registration. I think in general they are giving over age 60 people AstraZeneca. 

Thanks Khun Jingting.

Good to know.

[A Display Name]

39 minutes ago, houstoniron said:

There is a lot of information here, I did read the comments and if I were in your situation I would be totally confused.

 

Now to muddy the water further 

 

The World Health Organization came out with a recommendation NOT to mix vaccine types. The reason given in their press release was because the combinations have not been properly tested and validated as safe.

 

Thailand clearly does not agree with this recommendation

 

i am cautious about mixing vaccines because they work on the body radically differently

 

I fear that Thailand is becoming a huge testing population. I agree with you that the best vaccine so the one you can get.

 

Eventually nRNA vaccines will be available here but I don’t think you will be able to choose them until late next year.

 

I probably would go with two vaccines the same type

 

I read many comments that say the Chinese vaccines are no good. That is very wrong, all the vaccines available in thailand are good vaccines and have good efficacy. Flu vaccine efficacy is just over 50% the Covid vaccines are all tested at greater than 90% so they are all very good vaccines. The question still to be answered is how long does protection last. The key though is to get a vaccine on board. With no vaccine you have zero protection

 

I hope this helps, the government has really confused people with their current strategy

 

i know of no other country that is mixing vaccines

Thanks. I decided to mix, but as I indicated it wasn't a clear cut choice given I agree with the belief that Sinovac does do a good job with severe symptoms and I was hesitant to turn down that.

 

Unfortunatelly, there's no real way for me to know if it was or was not the right call, but at least I've got some peace of mind now and hopefully have protection from severe issues. At this point, I can't change the decision ... and since that's no longer in my control, I'm not going to worry about it. I'll keep my eye out for an mRNA or a second AZ shot down the road, but will likely wait for a paid option or until Thailand has enough to go around for all of those that haven't gotten a vaccine and want one. Now that I've got two behind me, if they decide down the line to not require quarantine for vaccinated people in BKK, a short trip for a booster would also be an option. Unfortunately, it doesn't feel like the quarantine requirement will be going away any time soon.

[unblocktheplanet]

On 7/28/2021 at 7:14 PM, internationalism said:

the AZ as a second or as a booster is only for medics, not for the rest

That's not correct. Foreigners are being offered AZ. Personally, I'd go with AZ after Sinovac. I have not seen other countries advising this but I'd not be surprised. Then down the road you can decide if another vaccine or booster is necessary.

 

You're right: You can undo vaccines. They permanently alter your immune system.

[scotinsiam]

My experience today at Phayathai 2 hospital.

I'm 57 and have had 1 X Sinovac 4 weeks ago (registered while thaiintervac site was working)

 

I arrived very early for my appointment and was taken straight away, I was the only non Chinese. The staff didn't miss a beat switching from announcements in Mandarin to English when my turn came.

 

I was offered Sinovac or AZ - I took Sinovac for various reasons - the whole procedure lasted around 45 minutes including the 30 minute wait time. Very slick and professional staff, they are a credit to their profession. 

 

[codemonkey]

If you plan to get vaxxed in Thailand there is no option for Sinovac as of July 12  when Thailand decided to drop the Chinese vaccines and instead will offer AZ in it's place.

[A Display Name]

3 minutes ago, codemonkey said:

If you plan to get vaxxed in Thailand there is no option for Sinovac as of July 12  when Thailand decided to drop the Chinese vaccines and instead will offer AZ in it's place.

Not the case. I was scheduled to get my second dose of Sinovac on July 29. I asked to switch when I arrived, but they were planning on giving me Sinovac until I made the request. There were plenty of people getting Sinovac that day and the the Sinovac rooms were very busy with people going in and out. In fact, there were more rooms set up for Sinovac than there were for AZ and from my observation, more people had Sinovac on the instruction papers I saw than AZ.

[Crossy]

9 minutes ago, codemonkey said:

If you plan to get vaxxed in Thailand there is no option for Sinovac as of July 12  when Thailand decided to drop the Chinese vaccines and instead will offer AZ in it's place.

 

Interesting, do you have a credible source for this information?

 

 

[KhunBENQ]

10 minutes ago, codemonkey said:

If you plan to get vaxxed in Thailand there is no option for Sinovac as of July 12  when Thailand decided to drop the Chinese vaccines and instead will offer AZ in it's place.

Wrong at least up here.

Got Sinovac yesterday (no choice with hundreds of Thai people).

AZ will be applied August 27 (four weeks later while I hoped three).

 

[codemonkey]

Not sure how credible anything printed on a website is these days.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/more-countries-abandon-chinese-covid-shots-signaling-a-setback-to-regimes-vaccine-diplomacy_3926339.html

Edited July 31, 2021 by codemonkey

[mfd101]

There's lots of Sinovac available and they need to use it up.

 

After reading all the above, I've decided to go and get my 1st jab (Sinovac) here in Prasat Surin. Will decide on S or AZ (probably AZ, I think) for the 2nd round.

 

And aim for an AZ (or P or M) booster down the track.

Edited July 31, 2021 by mfd101