Thailand reports 19,983 new COVID-19 cases, 138 deaths

[dinsdale]

23 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

 

 

Glad we have you keeping us all safe 

This post was to was to another poster in good faith. If you want to denegrate the veracity of my apology that's up to you but it does show where your intellect is at.

My post:

@ourmanflint

Sorry I mistakenly reported you for miss quoting me. My apologies for this as you didn't. I'm getting on a bit of a report thing here and had a bit of a hare trigger. Once again I apologise. When it comes to the trolls on here now I will not hesitate though. You are trying to turn adult discourse in to childish non rational, bickering arguement. You know who you are as do the rest of us on here

Edited August 8, 2021 by dinsdale

[jazzdog32095]

14 minutes ago, anchadian said:

The heart-rending picture of a nurse hugging her bereaved Covid-19-infected pregnant friend went viral on social media on Saturday. #COVID19 #nurse #ThailandNews #TheNationThailand

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/in-focus/40004375

And to think this could have been avoided. So very sad

[ChC1]

I saw some posters wonder why Thailand does not vaccinate all over 60s first. I see their points, but I also see why Thailand does this too. So I will just point out some considerations, please do not shoot.

 

1, Cut off the infections chain.

Sure, it is good to vaccinate all over 60s as they are the more vulnerable. But if what happened in Europe as an example, during pandemic, all elderly sheltered at home. Most death among elderly happened in nursing homes. Elderly staying at home sheltering actually did well in comparison. This delta variant is scary, it also had more impact on the younger generation (look at the reports in UK and India you will see). 

 

So, if the elderly stay at home and sheltering, the chance of catching Covid is less. The risk groups are actually the middle ages and younger generation. People working in hospitals, cramped building sites and transportation hubs are more likely to catch the virus. It is not enough to vaccinate the elderly while this virus is raging among the working ages. To break the chain of infection, you need to protect the people who is mobile with highest exposure first.

 

2, More importantly, the family structure in Thailand requires a different approach

Why? Unlike in western society, in Thailand and most of East/Southeast Asian countries, multi-generation living under the same roof is very common. One must recognise this fact. So if you vaccinate the elderly, while the working generation (most middle age and younger family with children) went around to earn a living or even shopping for the family, should they pick up the Delta variant and brought it back home, there is still a high chance the elderly would get infected. From this sense, it is better to vaccinate the people who is likely to go outside and come in contact with people outside the family cluster. It also works better with the fit and health men and women. It also reduce the chance of infection as majority of health and fit people has more anti-bodies with vaccine and has less chance of becoming symptomatic.  

 

3, Sino vaccine for elderly? Maybe?

Another fact one needs to pay attention is the early vaccine in Thailand is from China. Is this vaccine good enough to help the elderly? I don't know. Would you rather use the AZ or even Pfizer for the elderly? My guess is most would think it is a better idea.

 

So, I know many of you on this forum are mobile, independent living and confident western seniors.  You may not like the idea that you are not the centre of the world in Thailand. And you may not like the idea someone here try to 'educate' you on the typical Asian family structures since you all think you know Asia inside out. But I hope my post may give you some food for thought. Decisions are not taken without careful consideration. What was right in UK or Europe at the beginning of the Alpha and Beta variant is no longer applicable with Delta variant. The family structure in Asia also needs a fresh approach to tackle the infection chain. 

 

As a side note, a typical Thai retiree would become extremely vulnerable if their son/daughter caught Covid and die. And there would be no one to take care of them. And they would also carry the duties to look after the grandchildren which would be too much of a burden to them. It is very different from the typical European or American family where seniors are more confident and independent living with social welfare and social care. You can argue all you can, but the reality is, for most Thai families, protect the bread winner is more important during pandemic. 

[anchadian]

Bangkok Governor said today that he is confident that 70% of the population of the capital will have received at least one dose of vaccine by the end of this month. Read more >>> 

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/bangkok-governor-confident-70-of-citys-residents-will-be-inoculated-against-covid-19-within-august/

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by anchadian

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, anchadian said:

Bangkok Governor said today that he is confident that 70% of the population of the capital will have received at least one dose of vaccine by the end of this month. Read more >>> https://thaipbsworld.com/bangkok-governor-confident-70-of-citys-residents-will-be-inoculated-against-covid-19-within-august/… #ThaiPBSWorld #COVID19

 

Hard to believe as many under 60 still need to be vaccinated including my GF who has waited 4 days with no return email or sms after registering for the 3rd time.

[Kadilo]

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

Yes, I mentioned this yesterday.

 

 

We will put you up for a prize. ????

[2 is 1]

43 minutes ago, ChC1 said:

Unlike in western society, in Thailand and most of East/Southeast Asian countries, multi-generation living under the same roof is very common.

And really in Italy! There live more generation in same roof than in Thailand! And because that ,older people start drop like fly's when start this covid thing! Yes they all dont put they hand in same  sontam cup or drink same class, BUT THEY KISS eatch other all the time! Kids,babys,son,daughter maybe even dogs , cats ....... etc. I dont know what kind your common Thai family is but in our's almost all generation's live in different house's/places if they are adult. And nornaly kids work different town , even in Isaan if they have not continue to be farmer.

Edited August 8, 2021 by 2 is 1

[Kadilo]

43 minutes ago, ChC1 said:

I saw some posters wonder why Thailand does not vaccinate all over 60s first. I see their points, but I also see why Thailand does this too. So I will just point out some considerations, please do not shoot.

 

1, Cut off the infections chain.

Sure, it is good to vaccinate all over 60s as they are the more vulnerable. But if what happened in Europe as an example, during pandemic, all elderly sheltered at home. Most death among elderly happened in nursing homes. Elderly staying at home sheltering actually did well in comparison. This delta variant is scary, it also had more impact on the younger generation (look at the reports in UK and India you will see). 

 

So, if the elderly stay at home and sheltering, the chance of catching Covid is less. The risk groups are actually the middle ages and younger generation. People working in hospitals, cramped building sites and transportation hubs are more likely to catch the virus. It is not enough to vaccinate the elderly while this virus is raging among the working ages. To break the chain of infection, you need to protect the people who is mobile with highest exposure first.

 

2, More importantly, the family structure in Thailand requires a different approach

Why? Unlike in western society, in Thailand and most of East/Southeast Asian countries, multi-generation living under the same roof is very common. One must recognise this fact. So if you vaccinate the elderly, while the working generation (most middle age and younger family with children) went around to earn a living or even shopping for the family, should they pick up the Delta variant and brought it back home, there is still a high chance the elderly would get infected. From this sense, it is better to vaccinate the people who is likely to go outside and come in contact with people outside the family cluster. It also works better with the fit and health men and women. It also reduce the chance of infection as majority of health and fit people has more anti-bodies with vaccine and has less chance of becoming symptomatic.  

 

3, Sino vaccine for elderly? Maybe?

Another fact one needs to pay attention is the early vaccine in Thailand is from China. Is this vaccine good enough to help the elderly? I don't know. Would you rather use the AZ or even Pfizer for the elderly? My guess is most would think it is a better idea.

 

So, I know many of you on this forum are mobile, independent living and confident western seniors.  You may not like the idea that you are not the centre of the world in Thailand. And you may not like the idea someone here try to 'educate' you on the typical Asian family structures since you all think you know Asia inside out. But I hope my post may give you some food for thought. Decisions are not taken without careful consideration. What was right in UK or Europe at the beginning of the Alpha and Beta variant is no longer applicable with Delta variant. The family structure in Asia also needs a fresh approach to tackle the infection chain. 

 

As a side note, a typical Thai retiree would become extremely vulnerable if their son/daughter caught Covid and die. And there would be no one to take care of them. And they would also carry the duties to look after the grandchildren which would be too much of a burden to them. It is very different from the typical European or American family where seniors are more confident and independent living with social welfare and social care. You can argue all you can, but the reality is, for most Thai families, protect the bread winner is more important during pandemic. 

Excellent thought provoking post. 

[jazzdog32095]

4 minutes ago, ChC1 said:

I saw some posters wonder why Thailand does not vaccinate all over 60s first. I see their points, but I also see why Thailand does this too. So I will just point out some considerations, please do not shoot.

 

1, Cut off the infections chain.

Sure, it is good to vaccinate all over 60s as they are the more vulnerable. But if what happened in Europe as an example, during pandemic, all elderly sheltered at home. Most death among elderly happened in nursing homes. Elderly staying at home sheltering actually did well in comparison. This delta variant is scary, it also had more impact on the younger generation (look at the reports in UK and India you will see). 

 

So, if the elderly stay at home and sheltering, the chance of catching Covid is less. The risk groups are actually the middle ages and younger generation. People working in hospitals, cramped building sites and transportation hubs are more likely to catch the virus. It is not enough to vaccinate the elderly while this virus is raging among the working ages. To break the chain of infection, you need to protect the people who is mobile with highest exposure first.

 

2, More importantly, the family structure in Thailand requires a different approach

Why? Unlike in western society, in Thailand and most of East/Southeast Asian countries, multi-generation living under the same roof is very common. One must recognise this fact. So if you vaccinate the elderly, while the working generation (most middle age and younger family with children) went around to earn a living or even shopping for the family, should they pick up the Delta variant and brought it back home, there is still a high chance the elderly would get infected. From this sense, it is better to vaccinate the people who is likely to go outside and come in contact with people outside the family cluster. It also works better with the fit and health men and women. It also reduce the chance of infection as majority of health and fit people has more anti-bodies with vaccine and has less chance of becoming symptomatic.  

 

3, Sino vaccine for elderly? Maybe?

Another fact one needs to pay attention is the early vaccine in Thailand is from China. Is this vaccine good enough to help the elderly? I don't know. Would you rather use the AZ or even Pfizer for the elderly? My guess is most would think it is a better idea.

 

So, I know many of you on this forum are mobile, independent living and confident western seniors.  You may not like the idea that you are not the centre of the world in Thailand. And you may not like the idea someone here try to 'educate' you on the typical Asian family structures since you all think you know Asia inside out. But I hope my post may give you some food for thought. Decisions are not taken without careful consideration. What was right in UK or Europe at the beginning of the Alpha and Beta variant is no longer applicable with Delta variant. The family structure in Asia also needs a fresh approach to tackle the infection chain. 

 

As a side note, a typical Thai retiree would become extremely vulnerable if their son/daughter caught Covid and die. And there would be no one to take care of them. And they would also carry the duties to look after the grandchildren which would be too much of a burden to them. It is very different from the typical European or American family where seniors are more confident and independent living with social welfare and social care. You can argue all you can, but the reality is, for most Thai families, protect the bread winner is more important during pandemic. 

That's all fine and good until you look at the numbers. In the USA between 01/01/2020-07/31/2021 of the total deaths , 606,000 from Covid , 560,000 were 55 and older. That's 92.4 % . It is obvious that vaccinating this group first saves hundreds of thousands of lives. It makes no sense using limited vaccines on people in the 0-40 year old range that make up only 2.5% of the deaths. Your argument is smoke and mirrors and would cause untold death and misery. Especially considering the family structure in Thailand where so many kids are raised by their grandparents. Has nothing to do with being a ''confident Western Senior" as much as just thinking about what comes out of your mouth .

 

[ChC1]

8 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

Excellent thought provoking post. 

Thanks. Except many of the posters here would never understand what I actually said. You just need to see two of the posts to see what uphill battle it is to put the concept through. I am not even going to bother to reply to those two posters as clearly it is a waste of time. I respect their opinion but for sure some would not respect mine. 

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, ChC1 said:

Thanks. Except many of the posters here would never understand what I actually said. You just need to see two of the posts to see what uphill battle it is to put the concept through. I am not even going to bother to reply to those two posters as clearly it is a waste of time. I respect their opinion but for sure some would not respect mine. 

You don't even know what the dominant variants have been in Europe. Beta?? As for the rest well writing another essay to respond to such basic mistakes is time wasting

[Kadilo]

17 minutes ago, ChC1 said:

Thanks. Except many of the posters here would never understand what I actually said. You just need to see two of the posts to see what uphill battle it is to put the concept through. I am not even going to bother to reply to those two posters as clearly it is a waste of time. I respect their opinion but for sure some would not respect mine. 

Don’t worry too much. Don’t take it personally. 

Its the typical kind of responses one would expect to see if your mind is in the closed position 

It’s good to have an open mind.

It was a thought  provoking viewpoint………for some. 

 

 

 

[ChC1]

9 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You don't even know what the dominant variants have been in Europe. Beta?? As for the rest well writing another essay to respond to such basic mistakes is time wasting

Thanks. However, I would like to points out that I did not say Beta was a dominant variant? You misread the sentence, or I might have written it in a way to make you think I said it was dominant. But that was not my intention. 

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, anchadian said:

Bangkok Governor said today that he is confident that 70% of the population of the capital will have received at least one dose of vaccine by the end of this month. Read more >>> 

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/bangkok-governor-confident-70-of-citys-residents-will-be-inoculated-against-covid-19-within-august/

 

Of course, Bangkok comes before Isarn, where I live and they really don't care about us here. 

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, ChC1 said:

Thanks. However, I would like to points out that I did not say Beta was a dominant variant? You misread the sentence, or I might have written it in a way to make you think I said it was dominant. But that was not my intention. 

Maybe you meant alpha and delta then that would be correct

Edited August 8, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[ChC1]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Maybe you meant alpha and delta.

No, definitely Beta. Because Beta was the variant of concern for much of the spring and summer before Delta.

[jazzdog32095]

5 minutes ago, ChC1 said:

Thanks. Except many of the posters here would never understand what I actually said. You just need to see two of the posts to see what uphill battle it is to put the concept through. I am not even going to bother to reply to those two posters as clearly it is a waste of time. I respect their opinion but for sure some would not respect mine. 

I understood your post totally, You advocate not prioritizing a group affected over 92% by vaccinating the other 2.5% under 40. If you administer 100 vaccines to 55+ you likely save 90 lives, jab 100 people under 40 you might save 2 lives. Do the math. Even vaccinating everyone under 55 you save maybe 7-8 people at the cost of 90 lives 55+. Just common sense you treat those most affected and go down the line. Saving 2 people at the cost of losing 90 instead of the opposite. Great plan you have there. You don't '' bother '' to reply because you have no rebuttal.

Provisional COVID-19 Deaths by Sex and Age | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (cdc.gov)

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, ChC1 said:

No, definitely Beta. Because Beta was the variant of concern for much of the spring and summer before Delta.

Not in Europe. Uk is delta. As is most of the rest of europe along with remains of original strain. Beta has a small presence in Spain and France but delta will soon kill that

[worrab]

42 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

3, Sino vaccine for elderly? Maybe?

Another fact one needs to pay attention is the early vaccine in Thailand is from China. Is this vaccine good enough to help the elderly? I don't know. Would you rather use the AZ or even Pfizer for the elderly? My guess is most would think it is a better idea.

Only query I have in your post is this comment. As far as I am aware, and I am sure I will be corrected if wrong, Sinovac was not recommended for the 60+ range. It has only been in the past couple of weeks that someone decided to allow the mix of Sinovac then AZ for 60+. So why has this suddenly been deemed okay? And why is it so many Thai are also against Sinovac? I have seen the problems incurred with this vaccine which is probably why so many are very wary. For me personally, I do not want Sinovac as it is not, again stand to be corrected, acceptable if I need to fly back to UK. I am relying on Pfizer in the expat programme which I will follow with Moderna, maybe Oct.

[Rimmer]

Troll post and reply removed

[jazzdog32095]

38 minutes ago, ChC1 said:

Thanks. Except many of the posters here would never understand what I actually said. You just need to see two of the posts to see what uphill battle it is to put the concept through. I am not even going to bother to reply to those two posters as clearly it is a waste of time. I respect their opinion but for sure some would not respect mine. 

Now think thru your post. Tell us how you propose to allocate limited vaccines per age groups and then explain how those allocations you propose will save lives. Your post was long on theory but very short on any facts to back it up. Facts are stubborn things. Please spare us the condescending attitude.  

[Bkk Brian]

26 minutes ago, ChC1 said:

No, definitely Beta. Because Beta was the variant of concern for much of the spring and summer before Delta.

Take a look at this, it will give you a better understanding of vaccine priority when there is limited supplies in a pandemic situation. Relevant to Thailand

 

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/immunization/sage/covid/sage-prioritization-roadmap-covid19-vaccines.pdf?Status=Temp&sfvrsn=bf227443_2

[Kadilo]

16 minutes ago, worrab said:

Only query I have in your post is this comment. As far as I am aware, and I am sure I will be corrected if wrong, Sinovac was not recommended for the 60+ range. It has only been in the past couple of weeks that someone decided to allow the mix of Sinovac then AZ for 60+. So why has this suddenly been deemed okay? And why is it so many Thai are also against Sinovac? I have seen the problems incurred with this vaccine which is probably why so many are very wary. For me personally, I do not want Sinovac as it is not, again stand to be corrected, acceptable if I need to fly back to UK. I am relying on Pfizer in the expat programme which I will follow with Moderna, maybe Oct.

You quoted the wrong person worrab, but no issue, I’m not a sensitive soul 

 

You make a good point re Sinovac  and travel to UK 

[worrab]

10 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

You quoted the wrong person worrab, but no issue, I’m not a sensitive soul 

 

You make a good point re Sinovac  and travel to UK 

My apologies. Should have been for ChC1.

[dinsdale]

2 hours ago, anchadian said:

Bangkok Governor said today that he is confident that 70% of the population of the capital will have received at least one dose of vaccine by the end of this month. Read more >>> 

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/bangkok-governor-confident-70-of-citys-residents-will-be-inoculated-against-covid-19-within-august/

 

How many have had one jab of the Chinese juice. This once again is the 'govt' big noting themselves when the reality is quite different. Pure propaganda.

[jazzdog32095]

7 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

How many have had one jab of the Chinese juice. This once again is the 'govt' big noting themselves when the reality is quite different. Pure propaganda.

Why on earth would you obtain missile defense from the one who dropped a bomb on you?

 

[Kadilo]

37 minutes ago, worrab said:

My apologies. Should have been for ChC1.

No problem at all. 

[dinsdale]

Just now, jazzdog32095 said:

Why on earth would you obtain missile defense from the one who dropped a bomb on you?

 

Big fat bank accounts (overseas I would imagine).

[Paradise Pete]

6 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Also note that only ~17% of population is 60+. Clearly the 60+ group should be #1 priority.

That depends on your goal. If the goal is to minimize death, then yes.

If the goal is to stop the virus sooner then the priority should be those most likely to spread it. Younger people with jobs.

Being an old person stuck in the U.S. I was happy to get vaccinated early, but I don't think it's the best strategy for getting back (or close) to normal.

 

[Scrotobike]

I tried to read some posts here about who to vaccinate. Here is my logic. Please feel free to take a pop at it as I am always keen to learn

 

1. According to the CCSA most deaths are old/sick (diabetes is mentioned often) - some weeks 90% is quoted.

2. Vaccination with a good vaccine will provide protection for this population

3. Death rates (and ventilator usage) will decline

4. Then the health service is less stressed

5. The virus becomes more manageable

 

I think giving scarce vaccines to youngsters in Phuket for the sandbox <deleted> and to factories where there is already a cluster seems a daft policy when old/sick Thais are still dying (did I spell that - looks weird). 

 

As the UK football fans chant - "come and have a go if you think you are hard enough" 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by metisdead
Profane acronym removed.