'We don't know if we'll survive': Thailand sex workers left struggling as COVID-19 lockdown drags on

[HashBrownHarry]

4 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Do you have any ideas of your own on Pattaya's immediate future, and medium to long term future?

 

When do you think "bonking" will return here?  ????  

Bonking will never stop in Pattaya.

 

It's a permanent bonkfest.

[Leaver]

9 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

Bonking will never stop in Pattaya.

 

It's a permanent bonkfest.

 

I agree, but perhaps the main method of delivery will change.  

 

Perhaps many of the bonkees will find it more lucrative to display their skills online to a global audience, rather tan hanging around a bar, begging for a lady drink and a bar fine.  

 

Perhaps they will use their online profile to arrange meeting tourists when they come to Pattaya.

 

Interesting times ahead. 

  

Edited August 20, 2021 by Leaver

[Tanomazu]

53 minutes ago, Leaver said:

What has the unemployment rate got to do with new businesses starting up?

 

Do you really thing the unemployed, will little to no government assistance, for at least 2 years, will start a business to give themselves a job?  Are you trolling?

 

Who do you think funded the rebuilding of Germany?

 

Who is going to fund the rebuilding of Thailand's tourism industry?    

If the figures provided are accurate, and 10 million Thais are unemployed, about one third of the workforce that give an indication of the depth of economic issues. It is inconceivable that more than one third of the business in Thailand will fold. That means about two thirds of tenants will remain. So whilst things are very bad, that only applies to one third of employees and companies at most.

 

Yes, I do think the unemployed, to the extent they are able to, will start a business. They have no other choice.

 

It was the Germans themselves that mostly funded the economic miracle. 

 

"West Germany proceeded quickly after 1948 to rebuild its capital stock and thus to increase its economic output at stunning rates. The very high capital investment rate thanks to low consumption and a very small need for replacement capital investments (due to the still small capital stock) drove this recovery during the 1950s. "

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirtschaftswunder

 

This despite the fact that the Americans and British plundered 10 billion USD worth of German patents, dismantled the German steel industry and forced Germany to pay reparations. This was not offset by the Marshall Plan, which was smaller by comparison to what the Allies took or destroyed.

 

But the point is moot, because Thailand is not destroyed, nobody has to fund the rebuilding of what was not destroyed.

 

[DBath]

4 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

it will be like rebuilding germany after WW2

And just how would YOU know that?

[DBath]

4 hours ago, HashBrownHarry said:

This won't last for ever, and the double vaxxed will return shortly after it opens.

Who are the "DOUBLE VAXXED"?

[DBath]

4 hours ago, HashBrownHarry said:

If they come for the girls ( or boys ) then are n't you the one that claims it's all online nowadays anyway?

 

What else would they need if heading to Pattaya, is that not the main attraction?

I used to live in Chicago and there was this place around the corner from mine (near 1100 Dearborn St.) called "Hashbrown Harry's" and their portions were HUGE.

 

In my eggsperience, whenever someone says, "if they come for the girls (or boys)" - MAJOR RED FLAG.

 

Just sayin'

[DBath]

1 hour ago, HashBrownHarry said:

You're idea's are bonkers.

Perhaps, that is YOUR OPINION, which is questionable at best.

[Leaver]

38 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

It is inconceivable that more than one third of the business in Thailand will fold. That means about two thirds of tenants will remain. So whilst things are very bad, that only applies to one third of employees and companies at most.

 

Errr, we are talking about the tourism industry here, not a factory making computers, for example.  

 

How does the factory making computers help the tourism industry to rebuild?

 

40 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

Yes, I do think the unemployed, to the extent they are able to, will start a business. They have no other choice.

 

Where does their start up capital come from?  They have been living off savings for 18 months already.

 

41 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

It was the Germans themselves that mostly funded the economic miracle. 

 

Rubbish.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstruction_of_Germany

 

"In 1947, the Marshall Plan, initially known as the "European Recovery Program" was initiated. In the years 1947–1952, some $13 billion of economic and technical assistance—-equivalent to around $140 billion in 2017—were allocated to Western Europe. Despite protests from many beneficiaries, the Marshall Plan, although in the less generous form of loans, was in 1949 extended to also include the newly formed West Germany. In the years 1949–1952, West Germany received loans which totaled $1.45 billion, equivalent to around $14.5 billion in 2006."

 

See the words "loans" and "billions."  

 

47 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

But the point is moot, because Thailand is not destroyed, nobody has to fund the rebuilding of what was not destroyed.

 

Once again, the buildings are not destroyed, just the businesses that used to operate within them, and they were private investment, not government.

 

[HashBrownHarry]

1 minute ago, DBath said:

Perhaps, that is YOUR OPINION, which is questionable at best.

Aw that's cute, you're sticking up for him - sweet. lol

[DBath]

57 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

Aw that's cute, you're sticking up for him - sweet. lol

So what if I am?

[HashBrownHarry]

3 minutes ago, DBath said:

So what if I am?

It's cute - i'm welling up.

[Tanomazu]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

 

Errr, we are talking about the tourism industry here, not a factory making computers, for example.  

 

How does the factory making computers help the tourism industry to rebuild?

 

 

Where does their start up capital come from?  They have been living off savings for 18 months already.

 

 

Rubbish.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstruction_of_Germany

 

"In 1947, the Marshall Plan, initially known as the "European Recovery Program" was initiated. In the years 1947–1952, some $13 billion of economic and technical assistance—-equivalent to around $140 billion in 2017—were allocated to Western Europe. Despite protests from many beneficiaries, the Marshall Plan, although in the less generous form of loans, was in 1949 extended to also include the newly formed West Germany. In the years 1949–1952, West Germany received loans which totaled $1.45 billion, equivalent to around $14.5 billion in 2006."

 

See the words "loans" and "billions."  

 

 

Once again, the buildings are not destroyed, just the businesses that used to operate within them, and they were private investment, not government.

 

You're the one who mentioned "tenants", clearly we were discussing the Thai economy as a whole.

 

Where does start up capital come from? Three guesses: borrowing.

 

As for the Marshall Plan, "John Gimbel's book "Science Technology and Reparations: Exploitation and Plunder in Postwar Germany" concludes the "intellectual reparations" taken by the U.S. and the UK amounted to close to $10 billion.

 

"Nonetheless, the amount of monetary aid, which was mainly in the form of loans, about $1.4 billion, was greatly overshadowed by the amount the Germans had to pay back as war reparations and by the charges the Allies made on the Germans for the ongoing cost of the occupation, about $2.4 billion per year. "

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirtschaftswunder

 

So again, the Germans funded the economic miracle themselves, the Marshall Plan was not the cause.

[newnative]

13 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

It's quite possible tourists will start to return in 18 months. After all nothing was physically destroyed. If you look at Europe, people were desperate to go to Majorca, despite Covid still raging there. Not everyone is terrified of the virus and lets it rule their lives.

 

If Thailand manages to vaccinate and thus get the virus under control, something which happened in the UK and Germany within 6 months, there will clearly be a demand for tourists to go there. The Maldives, Dubai, Greece, Spain, are seeing tourists coming in.

 

People in cold countries are tired of being at home, and want to travel abroad.

 

 

     I agree.  People definitely are tired of staying home and are ready to travel--I know my partner and I are.   Saw an interesting statistic the other day.  Florida welcomed 30 million visitors in the April-June period this year.  That is only slightly less than the numbers for the same time period, pre-covid.  People were traveling to Florida even with covid still raging; once it's under control and international travel opens up, Thailand will again attract the visitors that made it a popular, and growing, tourist destination.

[FarangULong]

On 8/17/2021 at 2:02 AM, jacko45k said:

You would be surprised, but a lot of them really would like a foreign husband (or sponsor), who would help her financially and take the weight of bringing up a kid the earlier husband has abandoned. These are to be found in bars, and that is where she needs to be, working, and doing what that entails.

How is that contrary to the stereotype, that they just want a financial care taker?

 

I will never understand this mentality either, why raise some other man's kids (where you will NEVER have full say), when there are plenty of women who don't have kids yet? For me that's already a deal breaker, being a prostitute is yet another.

 

They might not be "bad people", but again. There are women who are not prostitutes, who are not spreading their legs for dung loads of guys, etc. So why would I pick the former?

 

If it's what they want to do, that's fine. That's their life. Same as a guy who would want to be with/marry someone like that. Doesn't mean I have to or should want to either, though.

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, FarangULong said:

How is that contrary to the stereotype, that they just want a financial care taker?

 

It takes all types..... I would expect quite a lot of these girls would be fine as partners... maybe last longer than marrying Angelina Jolie or other Hollywood icons who can't make a marriage last. How are they contrary?

 

Raising another man's kids requires some commitment, they are just kids not cubs. Many are managing fine....  and it is possible in the Pattaya scenario the man is a little old for new ones! Maybe the lady too.

 

You are hung up on prostitutes, good luck getting free sex in this world.....

 

Of course you don't have to.... you seem to be young yet. Go get married, have kids, get divorced, lose the house, get back to us.

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by jacko45k

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, FarangULong said:

I will never understand this mentality either, why raise some other man's kids (where you will NEVER have full say), when there are plenty of women who don't have kids yet? For me that's already a deal breaker, being a prostitute is yet another.

Back in the UK I had no say at all, my wife dumped me and I was never allowed to see the 4 kids again.

 

In Thailand, I had absolutely full say over the raising of my step-daughter (her mom didn't want her either), from age 11 to age 23 she was totally my kid. Moved out a month back after finishing university and starting work. Still got my 10 year old son to look after.

[roger101]

On 8/16/2021 at 8:49 PM, VBF said:

Just their "O" and "A" Levels........

Don't apologize.

[roger101]

21 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

Yes, I do, but what you're not understanding is that despite that fact, and Thailand advertising world wide, the tourist industry took 3 years to get back to normal. Even though clean up began immediately, the tourists did not return in full numbers immediately.

 

You could equally argue that Thailand immediately shut down borders. That does not mean recovery began then, does it?

 

You have to look at the full picture, and after the Tsunami tourism took 3 years to recover.

 

With Covid there is nothing to actually rebuild, nothing was destroyed physically, excepting business that have to be rebuilt, or reopened. Though many in fact took  the Covid break to refurbish. So I suspect the influx of tourists can happen much quicker, and won't drag out over 3 years, like after the tsunami.

 

We have evidence of previous pandemics. The four waves of the Spanish flu pandemic took 2 years. So giving it 3 years for Covid, when we have vaccinations they did not have in 1918, is actually very conservative.

 

Obviously we can't know it for sure, there may be a new SARS variant and we may all die within months, but all things being equal and if the past can be used as an indicator, by the end of 2022 the end of the Covid pandemic (not the end of Covid, but the pandemic) and all the associated knee-jerk lock down measures, can come to pass.

I agree with the 3 year recovery. But it will be 3 years from the end of the pandemic.

[Leaver]

13 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

You're the one who mentioned "tenants", clearly we were discussing the Thai economy as a whole.

 

No, clearly you are.  I am discussing the tourism industry.  

 

13 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

Where does start up capital come from? Three guesses: borrowing.

 

What security can people put up for a loan when they have lost everything?

 

13 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

So again, the Germans funded the economic miracle themselves, the Marshall Plan was not the cause.

 

Where did the German's start up capital come from?  It was loaned to them.  Some decades later, Germany was once again an economic powerhouse, but the initial rebuilding was funded by a loan.  

 

[3NUMBAS]

many youngsters are unvacinated and anti vaxxers and thats the bulk of the thai tourism market that wont be returning as theyre skint as well ,old geezers are in the minority

[FarangULong]

5 hours ago, jacko45k said:

It takes all types..... I would expect quite a lot of these girls would be fine as partners... maybe last longer than marrying Angelina Jolie or other Hollywood icons who can't make a marriage last. How are they contrary?

 

Raising another man's kids requires some commitment, they are just kids not cubs. Many are managing fine....  and it is possible in the Pattaya scenario the man is a little old for new ones! Maybe the lady too.

 

You are hung up on prostitutes, good luck getting free sex in this world.....

 

Of course you don't have to.... you seem to be young yet. Go get married, have kids, get divorced, lose the house, get back to us.

 

Why am I hung up on prostitutes? You specifically talked about bar girls, and my comment was in reply to that.

 

I'm just saying, that imo it's naive to be like "they're not bad people". Of course you're not a bad person, because you sell yourself. And of course not all of them are just out to take your money, while having 3+ other guys send them money at the same time.

 

I think I even stated in an earlier comment, that best chance is probably to find one, that only just entered the business, as they tend to be less messed up in the head, lower chance of being addicted to yaba and such, lower chances of being an alcoholic, etc. Can't remember if it was this thread though, and too lazy to scroll.

 

There's no longer such a thing as getting free sex, technically speaking, at least not in most parts of the World. Except when you're still a teenager and too young to go to ("normal") bars etc. They all (or rather almost all of them) expect at least a drink, but that's hardly the same.

 

Why do people always put words in my mouth on this forum? How is replying to a comment SPECIFICALLY about bar girls "being hung up on prostitutes"? Or are there bar girls that just do the drinks for company thing, and might hook up without paying for it? Because if there are, and that's not a rare exception, then I was wrong, and I "apologize" for making wrong assumptions. I've never been to one of those types of bars while in Thailand, other than to play some pool with mates, watch sports, and have a couple drinks. Just heard, that "bar girl" is just a euphemism for hooker / that the drinks for company bar girls hook up if you pay them/pay the bar fee.

[FarangULong]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Back in the UK I had no say at all, my wife dumped me and I was never allowed to see the 4 kids again.

 

In Thailand, I had absolutely full say over the raising of my step-daughter (her mom didn't want her either), from age 11 to age 23 she was totally my kid. Moved out a month back after finishing university and starting work. Still got my 10 year old son to look after.

A) that's <deleted> up, but it's the norm in our "women are oppressed + male priviledge" system in the West. I'm sorry to hear that.

 

B) Well if that's the case, then that's great. I simply avoided anything long term with women BOTH here (in the West) and while in Thailand, if they mentioned kids, because here they usually are like (when the kid does something wrong, and you discipline it [NOT beating the kid, before 2long or jak etc. put words in my mouth...]) "YoU'rE nOt HiS fAtHeR", yet expect you to play daddy otherwise. Is that a thing in Thailand in general, that they - the women - give you full parenting "rights" as well as wanting you to assume the responsibilities, or is that more of an exception?

 

I still wouldn't do it, just wondering. It'd be just one more thing, where they're less c u next tuesday-y than the average lovely lady here..

[FarangULong]

2 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

many youngsters are unvacinated and anti vaxxers and thats the bulk of the thai tourism market that wont be returning as theyre skint as well ,old geezers are in the minority

Neither old, nor skint. Just not willing to pay for a 14 day quarantine. Don't need to go Thailand, if I want to indoors/only go out for a swim, for that long & pay for it on top of that.

 

Although I read that they want to open certain "sandbox" areas without quarantine? I'm not vaccinated though, and probably won't be anytime soon either. I'm NOT an anti-vaxxer (I probably have had more shots than the average person), but I'm not too excited about taking anything, that was emergency approved and where there aren't any mid- to longterm effect studies yet.

 

I might have to, if they introduce more restrictions, but we'll see about that.

[DBath]

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Back in the UK I had no say at all, my wife dumped me and I was never allowed to see the 4 kids again.

 

In Thailand, I had absolutely full say over the raising of my step-daughter (her mom didn't want her either), from age 11 to age 23 she was totally my kid. Moved out a month back after finishing university and starting work. Still got my 10 year old son to look after.

I feel you...I've always felt you seem like a great dad. Your first wife sounds like my first wife. Though mine was never unfaithful, but she did faithfully treat me like SHlT for 30 years. I always thought somehow it would change one day, boy was I stupid, but I think it was partly getting caught up in our careers (I traveled every week and she was a flight attendant) and raising our three sons as best we could. I always thought we were good at balancing that chaos and over time things just fell apart - which is easy to see in retrospect. The divorce was worse than messy, she would have had me thrown in jail, if she could have, regardless of the impact it would have had on me being able to pay child support - a spiteful one she was and still is.

Edited August 21, 2021 by DBath

[FarangULong]

All this, and still you question why I say the stuff I say about (most) women? ????sheesh...

 

That being said, my condolences you had to go through that.

 

Good thing you recovered, it's hard but not worth it getting hung up on people who treat you like <deleted>. Good for you.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/21/2021 at 1:40 AM, HashBrownHarry said:

If they come for the girls ( or boys ) then are n't you the one that claims it's all online nowadays anyway?

 

What else would they need if heading to Pattaya, is that not the main attraction?

Many are like me and have no wish to do that sort of thing "on line".

However, the longer the shutdown continues the more likely the girls/ boys will find alternatives.

 

Anyway, why aren't the usual prostitution haters cheering from the rafters as they foresee the end of Pattaya as Fun City?

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, FarangULong said:

Why do people always put words in my mouth on this forum? How is replying to a comment SPECIFICALLY about bar girls "being hung up on prostitutes"?

Don't make your issues mine...... it was very clear from your posts. If not, you misrepresented yourself, or are now backpedaling. 

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, newnative said:

     I agree.  People definitely are tired of staying home and are ready to travel--I know my partner and I are.   Saw an interesting statistic the other day.  Florida welcomed 30 million visitors in the April-June period this year.  That is only slightly less than the numbers for the same time period, pre-covid.  People were traveling to Florida even with covid still raging; once it's under control and international travel opens up, Thailand will again attract the visitors that made it a popular, and growing, tourist destination.

Thailand's reputation in the west was IMO made in the 80s and 90s by backpackers and built on by the flashpacker industry. Given that in the decade before corona IMO they were doing their best to destroy everything that created that reputation, I can't see westerners returning in the same numbers. Frankly, if I'd first arrived in LOS this century I would probably never have returned. That's how Sri Lanka was for me- a one time only disaster.

If I kept coming this century, it was only because I knew where to find the bits that hadn't been ruined.

Indeed it was a popular tourist destination, but IMO not for anyone that cared about the environment.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, DBath said:

I feel you...I've always felt you seem like a great dad. Your first wife sounds like my first wife. Though mine was never unfaithful, but she did faithfully treat me like SHlT for 30 years. I always thought somehow it would change one day, boy was I stupid, but I think it was partly getting caught up in our careers (I traveled every week and she was a flight attendant) and raising our three sons as best we could. I always thought we were good at balancing that chaos and over time things just fell apart - which is easy to see in retrospect. The divorce was worse than messy, she would have had me thrown in jail, if she could have, regardless of the impact it would have had on me being able to pay child support - a spiteful one she was and still is.

IMO we western men put up with the BS as we thought it was "normal", and us older ones grew up when being married IMO was seen as the only way to get regular sex. That's certainly how I was indoctrinated- get married, have kids, retire, die.

It was only by luck I avoided that path.

It was only when I found LOS that I discovered that great sex was even possible, and available whenever I wanted it, and I didn't have to grovel for it.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, FarangULong said:

I think I even stated in an earlier comment, that best chance is probably to find one, that only just entered the business, as they tend to be less messed up in the head, lower chance of being addicted to yaba and such, lower chances of being an alcoholic, etc.

LOL. I had a BG GF from when she started, but she was no more messed up at the end as at 8 years earlier when I first met her

While she was a bit messed up, she was still lovely to be with ( usually, though sometimes she wasn't ) for the entire 8 years and we had many great beach holidays together. I think she was probably the only BG GF I had that liked going for long walks with me on my hours long rambles- most were too lazy.

We only parted ways because she found some rich guy to marry her.

Edited August 21, 2021 by thaibeachlovers