Do you object to being asked if you’ve been vaccinated?

[Yellowtail]

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So you thought you’d tell the world you don’t understand ‘Protected Status’.

So you thought you'd tell the world you are (as usual) not able to formulate a real response?

 

 

[DBath]

43 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

I had the fist Pfizer shot a week ago and suffered no side effects.

 

The ‘fist Pfizer shot’? That sounds pretty painful…
 

Is that anything like fisting? I sure hope not, hopefully just a typo! 

Edited August 23, 2021 by DBath

[Chomper Higgot]

12 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

So when you're vaccinated you're no longer able to transmit Covid? I'm asking a question. Because it's my understanding taking the covid shots reduces the effects of covid BUT you can still transmit it, Right? If you can still transmit Covid with the vaccine or without it, WHY do folks care about those who haven't been vaccinated. The unvaccinated will pay the price if they die, why should I care whether or not you've been vaccinated?

Because the evidence is clear, vaccinated people are far less likely to spread the virus and far less likely to get seriously ill hence strain the health services.

 

Refer to the current mess in low vaccine states, Alabama, Mississippi, Florida etc.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Driving is not a necessity. People lived for thousands of years without driving. Driving for the masses is a comparatively new thing, and really only affordable for many since WW2, IMO. In my lifetime most Chinese never drove, except on bicycles.

Next.

 

Diversion and another flawed argument....

 

In todays world driving or at least transport is most defiantly a necessity unless we wish to go back to ’stone age’ standards of living. 

 

Which, if you are using driving as an example, perhaps you do wish to go back to ’stone age standards of living’ where there is an absence of medical technology, where vaccines and antibiotics are not available.

 

Using such arguments has so many obvious flaws I struggle to believe how anyone with a logical concept of thought can justifiably present them in any intelligent discussion as a basis of comparison with a requirement for vaccination. 

 

Of ALL the arguments I have read regarding the specific Covid-19 vaccines there is only one argument which carries a modicum of weight and that is the possibility of long term effects of the vaccine and the fact that no one can argue that the vaccines are 100% in the long term, but, no one can argue that for many things we consume on a daily basis. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, cdemundo said:

 

That is done in some jurisdictions after convictions for driving while intoxicated.

Ignition lock until can blow below the legal limit.

I have no problem with it, because I am happy to obey the law that prohibits driving while intoxicated.

I suppose you would consider that driving while intoxicated is God-given right not to be infringed upon.

Really great example, tells a lot about you.

LOL. Making things up again?

IMO anyone driving drunk should have their car confiscated and sold without compensation. Moreover, if they injure someone while under the influence they should go to jail for a long time, and if they kill someone it should be a mandatory life sentence without parole.

I'm not talking about breathalyzing the convicted ( they should lose their license for life ), but for everyone.

 

IMO drunk drivers are more likely to kill someone than someone with corona is to kill by infection others that wear masks and keep their distance.

[Rimmer]

A post has been removed:

25) No public discussion is allowed with regard to other forum members,

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

In todays world driving or at least transport is most defiantly a necessity unless we wish to go back to ’stone age’ standards of living. 

Do you consider that British people in the 1950s were living in the "stone age"?

Perhaps I was assuming too much to believe that readers would not understand that I was referring only to private cars, and not public transport.

For their benefit, given bicycles and decent public transport, driving private vehicles is not a necessity for the populace, IMO, and that's how most used to live.

 

[richard_smith237]

48 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

52 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

I think you could terminate or refuse to hire people that have been vaccinated, subject to other employment laws.

Vaccination status yes or no is not a protected class as far as discrimination law if I am not mistaken.

 

"Would it not also be acceptable a packing company to compel there employees eat pork everyday for lunch? Plenty of jobs for Muslims and vegans elseward, yes? "

Not worthy of response.

Expand  

I assume it's not worthy of a response because you have no response. 

 

You want to say it's okay to terminate people that don't want to get vaccinated, but it's not okay to terminate people that don't want to eat pork. 

 

How about not hiring or only hiring people with tattoos?  

I am in an industry where everyone, without fail, has to be vaccinated. 

Employment Law varies country to country. 

 

I would assume that refusing a vaccination could contravene health and safety regulations, or it could be argued that way. 

 

IF people don’t wish to vaccinate against a virus that has been the underlying cause millions of deaths and an economically catastrophic response, ultimately, they must be prepared to face a certain degree of exclusion.

 

The line at which ‘personal rights and freedoms’ is stepped over is when the decision to exercise ones personal rights and freedoms has a negative impact on innocent others. 

 

Those who chose not to take the vaccine ‘can’ contribute to the spread of the virus to a greater degree than someone who has been vaccinated.

 

So, while we can’t force people to take vaccine, I am ok with businesses excising their have the right to exclude those people if they so wish and protect those willing to contribute to the protection of others by getting vaccinated. 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by richard_smith237

[Captain Monday]

35 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So should it not also be acceptable for any company to terminate or refuse to hire people that have been vaccinated? 

 

Would it not also be acceptable a packing company to compel there employees eat pork everyday for lunch? Plenty of jobs for Muslims and vegans elseward, yes? 

That's a bad example, compelling Muslims to eat pork has nothing to do with public heath or protecting other employees or customers. 

 

People are already compelled to vaccinate for various reasons and such mandates are upheld in the US by previous supreme court rulings. I don't know how other countries laws apply but private companies in the US can mandate it. It is already happening. US military will mandate. Government agencies are mandating it or requiring distancing and testing. There is a process of "reasonable accommodation" for legitimate medical and religious exemptions but the bar is pretty high and there are only so many jobs you can do by yourself locked in a room.

 

In our case with international flight operations there is absolutely nothing my company can  do about the entry requirements of sovereign nations and it is already required for many countries. No exception for flight crew. Cathay Pacific has been told vaccinate or be terminated. 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I am in an industry where everyone, without fail has to be vaccinated. 

Employment Law varies country to country. 

 

I would assume that refusing a vaccination could contravene health and safety regulations, or it could be argued that way. 

 

IF people don’t wish to vaccinate against a virus that has been the underlying cause millions of deaths and an economically catastrophic response, ultimately they must be prepared to face a certain degree of exclusion.

 

The line at which ‘personal rights and freedoms’ is stepped over when the decision to exercise ones personal rights and freedoms has a negative impact on innocent others. 

 

Those who chose not to take the vaccine ‘can’ contribute to the spread of the virus to a greater degree than someone who has been vaccinated.

 

So, while we can’t force people to take vaccine, businesses have the right to exclude those people if they so wish. 

 

 

 

 

I'm waiting to see how juries will rule when the inevitable court cases start. I expect companies to lose big time, but I could be wrong.

[Captain Monday]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm waiting to see how juries will rule when the inevitable court cases start. I expect companies to lose big time, but I could be wrong.

Companies lose in the jurisdiction of what country?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Captain Monday said:

I don't know how other countries laws apply but private companies in the US can mandate it. It is already happening.

NZ has laws that forbid forcing people to have any medication against their will. I guess the courts will have to rule if mandating vaccination to be employed is included under the law.

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Do you consider that British people in the 1950s were living in the "stone age"?

Perhaps I was assuming too much to believe that readers would not understand that I was referring only to private cars, and not public transport.

For their benefit, given bicycles and decent public transport, driving private vehicles is not a necessity for the populace, IMO, and that's how most used to live.

 

OK.. not quite the stone ages - but you are comparing a period of affluence to a major post war period of depression.

 

Quality of living is much higher now, and higher for those with a car - that is quite simple. 

 

But I do agree we don’t need one. We don’t need holidays, or to eat exotic fruit and imported foods. 

There is a lot we don’t ’need’ but life would not be as enjoyable without. 

 

 

IF your argument is still that we don’t ’need vaccines’ because we don’t need cars and people also die in car accidents - the argument is extremely flawed, the two are incomparable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm waiting to see how juries will rule when the inevitable court cases start. I expect companies to lose big time, but I could be wrong.

I also suspect so. But that is also a double edged sword. 

 

Could an employee who contracts Covid-19 in the work place have an upheld complaint that the Employer did not take sufficient anti-covid measures by ensuring employees were vaccinated ?

 

The legal system is going to be overwhelmed and tripping over itself in many countries which place an overwhelming priority on individual rights. 

 

Where as in other countries, there is going to be a ’take it or leave it’... ...  vaccinated can work, unvaccinated go hungry.

 

The same for travel, countries in which there is less emphasis on individual rights are more likely to limit entry for unvaccinated arrivals. 

 

The landscape is most definitely changing, even anti-covid-vaxxers are going to have to adapt.

 

 

 

 

[Captain Monday]

31 minutes ago, DBath said:

Totally agree. I lived in Chicago, albeit near city center, and did not need a car for almost 7 years. While I did have a driver to take me to O’Hare each week, I didn’t need a car and I walked a lot or took Uber. 
 

In Thailand I bought a Forza, again did not need a car, though I probably would have got one had we decided to live there permanently. 
 

Here in Spain, I’ll probably buy a car, because we want to explore the country a little more. 

Compared to the extreme  FUD about so-called "long term side effects" of vaccines how many people consider the "risks" when they do things taken for granted such as driving, riding a bicycle, or eating bacon?  Walking in the US outside of major city center is extremely hazardous people try to kill me frequently.

 

My anti-vaxX friend here in Chiang Mai won't leave Thailand over his soon required injections but after ranting earlier this year he gets on a motorbike and rides 25 minutes to a dark Moo-bahn two or three large changs deep. He is overweight with blood pressure and asthma issues. You can't make this stuff up he is the last person who wants to risk covid-19! 

 

I drove for years only the pandemic forced me to secure a residence in the US. I'm car free but it seriously limits where you can stay and I have to be easy Uber distance to the airport I commute out of. Can't park there free anyway. I will never own a car again in the US. Easy way to meet irresponsible lowlifes with no assets and often no insurance.

If I need a car I rent.

 

 

 

[jmccarty]

No problem.  Wish I could answer 'yes' I have.  But 'no' I have not!

[frantick]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

He may or may not have had it. 

 

But, he [BritManToo] has stated as fact that he had Covid-19 and used the lack of severity of symptoms to justify an opinion that Covid-19 is not serious and that a vaccine is unnecessary.

 

 

 

Actually, millions of covid survivors have proven that. It's in the stats.

[frantick]

Any bets that when Pfizer is fully FDA approved, that the company will STILL be immune from prosecution? I'm thinking yes, and wondering why.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, frantick said:

Any bets that when Pfizer is fully FDA approved, that the company will STILL be immune from prosecution? I'm thinking yes, and wondering why.

The company had the upper hand at the time of negotiations and removing an agreement is not as easy as making one.

[DBath]

21 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

Compared to the extreme  FUD about so-called "long term side effects" of vaccines how many people consider the "risks" when they do things taken for granted such as driving, riding a bicycle, or eating bacon?  Walking in the US outside of major city center is extremely hazardous people try to kill me frequently.

 

My anti-vaxX friend here in Chiang Mai won't leave Thailand over his soon required injections but after ranting earlier this year he gets on a motorbike and rides 25 minutes to a dark Moo-bahn two or three large changs deep. He is overweight with blood pressure and asthma issues. You can't make this stuff up he is the last person who wants to risk covid-19! 

 

I drove for years only the pandemic forced me to secure a residence in the US. I'm car free but it seriously limits where you can stay and I have to be easy Uber distance to the airport I commute out of. Can't park there free anyway. I will never own a car again in the US. Easy way to meet irresponsible lowlifes with no assets and often no insurance.

If I need a car I rent.

 

 

 

Not sure about the relevance of that first paragraph, but I think I agree with you...

 

Were I to have lived in "the burbs" a car would have been required.  In fact, only in a major city would I even consider not having one. I enjoyed the challenge of seeing how long I could go without a car and was able to get by without one for almost 7 years - partly because I traveled every week and mainly only needed a lift to and from O'Hare.

 

Like you, I rented a car whenever it was necessary, but I rarely needed to do that. Being a road warrior during the week and all the associated air travel incented me to be a homebody most weekends. And that was fine by me, Chicago is a great city to live in, as long as you don't visit the south side and certain parts of the west side.

[Captain Monday]

38 minutes ago, frantick said:

Any bets that when Pfizer is fully FDA approved, that the company will STILL be immune from prosecution? I'm thinking yes, and wondering why.

Prosecution for what? Drug manufacturers are  protected from lawsuits if they can show they took reasonable steps to warn of its risks. Do you see every drug ad on TV has a list of side effects?

Every time I took a minor medical procedure I signed a paper that basically says I could die. Like getting a tooth fixed even. The public has already warned. Nobody will be forced to get a shot even if that involves moving to a cabin in Idaho burning your passport and hunting for game. 

[DBath]

19 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

I will ask a simple question with regard to this topic:

If I do not wish to be injected with this product, should I have the right to do so, or not?

YES

[Captain Monday]

57 minutes ago, DBath said:

Not sure about the relevance of that first paragraph, but I think I agree with you...

 

Were I to have lived in "the burbs" a car would have been required.  In fact, only in a major city would I even consider not having one. I enjoyed the challenge of seeing how long I could go without a car and was able to get by without one for almost 7 years - partly because I traveled every week and mainly only needed a lift to and from O'Hare.

 

Like you, I rented a car whenever it was necessary, but I rarely needed to do that. Being a road warrior during the week and all the associated air travel incented me to be a homebody most weekends. And that was fine by me, Chicago is a great city to live in, as long as you don't visit the south side and certain parts of the west side.

The relevance of the first paragraph is the relation to vaccine resistance. Three of my foreign friends here in particular are opposed to taking a vaccination for covid-19

• One guy (more of a contact who subscribes to  every conspiracy theory from Bilderbergs to 5G) is just doctrinaire anti-vaxX, and will definitely leave Thailand and never return IF vaccination is required to extend a visa or enter Thailand.
• Another guy works, He is being forced by his job, and not happy about it even though he has the pre-existing conditions I described He wont quit or leave Thailand. 
• Another is an elderly retired woman. She will only vaccinate if required to extend her visa.

They are all concerned about the (vague) potential health risks but, I find it interesting they undertake other actions as a matter of course without worry or complaint that have a demonstrated clear risk such as riding motorbikes. Why is that? Life has risks and I guess we are all coerced in one way or another. I did not want to get my teeth straightened as a kid, I didn't want to go to college, I didn't want to do just about anything I was told to do. Most of it worked out for the best. As for the c-19 jabs not much of a choice except to resign and retire early. Then what happens and where can I live or travel? When I retire I intend to leave the US for good. For sure expat options and travel destinations will be limited for the un-vaccinated. Doesn't fit with my life plan right now.  I get all the other required and Doctor recommended vaccinations anyway.

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by Captain Monday

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, frantick said:

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

He may or may not have had it. 

 

But, he [BritManToo] has stated as fact that he had Covid-19 and used the lack of severity of symptoms to justify an opinion that Covid-19 is not serious and that a vaccine is unnecessary.

 

 

 

Expand  

Actually, millions of covid survivors have proven that. It's in the stats.

Myopic confirmation bias much ?

 

 

Are you suggesting that Covid-19 is not serious and a vaccine is not necessary because the stats show there are millions of Covid-19 survivors?....

 

Did you consider any other stats when confirming your bias?... Hospitalisations due to Covid-19? Deaths as a result of Covid-19? the number of people with long term consequences of Covid-19 ???

 

 

 

 

[DBath]

1 hour ago, Captain Monday said:

The relevance of the first paragraph is the relation to vaccine resistance. Three of my foreign friends here in particular are opposed to taking a vaccination for covid-19

• One guy (more of a contact who subscribes to  every conspiracy theory from Biderbergs to 5G ) is just doctrinaire anti-vaxX, and will definitely leave  and never return IF vaccination is required to extend a visa or enter Thailand.
• Another guy works, He is being forced by his job, and not happy about it even though he has the pre-existining conditions I described He wont quit or leave Thailand. 
• Another is an elderly retired woman. She will only vaccinate if required to extend her visa.

They are all concerned about the (vague) potential health risks but, I find it interesting they undertake other actions as a matter of course without worry or complaint that have a demonstrated clear risk such as riding motorbikes. Why is that? Life has risks and I guess we are all coerced in one way or another. I did not want to get my teeth straightened as a kid, I didn't want to go to college, I didn't want to do just about anything I was told to do. Most of it worked out for the best. As for the c-19 jabs not much of a choice except to resign and retire early. Then what happens and where can I live or travel? When I retire I intend to leave the US for good. For sure expat options and travel destinations will be limited for the un-vaccinated. Doesn't fit with my life plan right now.  I get all the other required and Doctor recommended vaccinations anyway.

 

As long as your acquaintance's actions don't harm you or anyone else, then I see no reason why you should care, other than you might be worried about them and would feel bad if something happened to them, because the things you mention are things they have a right to choose. If on the other hand you're concerned they might pass covid to you, it's your choice to 'cut the chord' or not with them. 

 

I ride motorcycles and I have for most of my life, since I was a young boy. I've put over 200,000 miles on various kinds of motorcycles - way more than most people. And except where it was illegal, I opted to not wear a helmet. You can call me whatever you want, but that was - and still is - my choice. I never had an accident and I'm pretty sure it was more than just luck that I didn't. People use to ask me, "Why do you ride without a helmet?" and my response was always the same, "Because I can."  I also never liked pulling up to a stop light and having the heat from the engine radiate off the pavement and make the inside feel like an oven. I've always been careful and tactical when I ride and have never been reckless (some of the 'wallflowers' on here will surely dislike that statement).

 

Some people have balls the size of boulders... "Sometimes you beat the bear and sometimes the bear gets you". I've never been one for the sheltered or coddled life that some people here try to project on a regular basis; and I detest crowd-followers.

 

As far as covid I know it's real, 100%.  If I had underlying conditions, I would probably move closer to the front of the jab line. Do I take covid lightly? Nope.  Do I go near or shake hands with people I'm not intimately familiar with? Nope.  Do I wear a mask? Yup.  Do I eat healthy and live a healthy lifestyle? Yup.  Do I have underlying conditions? Nope. Do I wash my hands frequently and use sanitizer? Yup. I rarely go out and when I do, I pose no risk to anyone else and keep my distance.  And the risk to me is minimal, IMO. I don't even remember the last time I had a cold - or the flu for that matter.

 

If I were to have to make a hard choice and get vaccinated, it wouldn't be that hard of a decision, if it's something I were forced to do, I would. If and when I see a good reason (one that suits me), I will get in line. 

 

Until then, I'm going to stay right where I am.

Edited August 23, 2021 by DBath

[transam]

5 hours ago, DBath said:

When did I say I think I’m safe from covid? Maybe “safer” than most, because other than taking the vaccine I’m taking ALL the proper precautions. 

 

And…I’m not calling anyone “stupid” or a “fruitcake” should they decide they want to get jabbed, I fully understand why some people are willing to go out on that limb. So don’t call me names or try to place me in one of your little “buckets”. 
 

People like you think just because you decide to get vaccinated or have been vaccinated then so should everyone else.

Sunbeam, I had no say in Tuberculosis, Polio, Smallpox, measles, but I did in Tetanus, Herpes and a few others. And guess what, I am in my eighth decade, protected by those jabs.

Tell me, what jabs have you had..?

[Liverpool Lou]

On 8/17/2021 at 4:18 PM, wwest5829 said:

I have a growing objection as a retired American full-time resident, at age 74 with heart issues at not having access to get vaccinated as part of the US Pfizer donation.

Why?  There is plenty of access to alternatives to Pfizer.   Perhaps you're one of those who wrongly assumed that the US's donation was specifically to vaccinate Americans.

[papa al]

On 8/17/2021 at 3:00 PM, mikebike said:

Don't really care who asks or why. I would answer honestly as I do to all questions. Don't really understand why answering any question honestly is an issue.

Ok. Yes or no:

You still messing with little boys on the weekend.?

[Liverpool Lou]

On 8/17/2021 at 6:24 PM, ifmu said:

i am serious about my health  i do not want to be around any un vaccinated person .. i am half vac  soon full

Why?  Do you think that vaccinated people cannot infect others?   Vaccination does not prevent your getting the infection.

 

Incidentally, a far as protection is concerned, until you're fully vaccinated, you're not vaccinated

[Liverpool Lou]

On 8/17/2021 at 10:04 PM, MrJ2U said:

No problem.

 

I just tell them out family can't seem to find any vaccines available here in Issan and we won't take Sinovac.

Why won't you have Sinovac, some protection is better than no protection, isn't it?