U.S. Housing Prices Explosion Making Repatriation a Less Realistic Option for Many?

[Jingthing]

Again I'm suggesting that low income / low wealth expats leaving Thailand strongly consider ANOTHER country rather than the US.

 

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, GinBoy2 said:

Yep you're right, as as much as some don't want to hear it, back in the day we dealt with those sky high interest rates on mortgages, just like folks deal with sky high rents.

 

But you deal with it, you save what you can, and over the decades you end up secure.

 

I come from a very poor immigrant farm worker family in the CA Central Valley. I know what poverty looks like.

 

Happiest day of my life was when I bought my parents their house, giving them security in their final days.

 

That didn't happen by chance, but because my parents taught me to study, get a good job...and Save!

Told ya. It's time for you to pony-up for the retirees that were not as lucky as you, because you either cheated or you were lucky.

 

You made all you did on the backs of others less fortunate than you, and now that you have yours you want to pull the ladder up on them. 

 

 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

 

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Again I'm suggesting that low income / low wealth expats leaving Thailand strongly consider ANOTHER country rather than the US.

 

To further the discussion, why not stipulate what you consider low income and low wealth? I'm serious, how much wealth and income do you think someone needs to relocate back to the US? I think it would be relatively easy for someone getting $1,500 a month in SS and $10K in the bank.  And while more difficult, it is certainly doable for people that have less.

 

Where are you thinking people being forced out of Thailand could go with less than that and enjoy a better standard of living than they would in the US? 

 

 

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

To further the discussion, why not stipulate what you consider low income and low wealth? I'm serious, how much wealth and income do you think someone needs to relocate back to the US? I think it would be relatively easy for someone getting $1,500 a month in SS and $10K in the bank.  And while more difficult, it is certainly doable for people that have less.

 

Where are you thinking people being forced out of Thailand could go with less than that and enjoy a better standard of living than they would in the US? 

 

 

 

I already posted my opinion of levels but that obviously is more of an individual thing. Different people have different basic needs.

 

I've posted about other countries on multiple other topics. If thats not good enough perhaps refer to International Living.

[EVENKEEL]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Again I'm suggesting that low income / low wealth expats leaving Thailand strongly consider ANOTHER country rather than the US.

 

That's a no brainer, of course the low income folks should look elsewhere besides the US. Even if you have a house to return to you've got Insurance, taxes, upkeep, crazy utility prices. 

 

The only reason I could see for returning is medical care.

[Airalee]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Well over 99 percent of Americans that are suffering from the severe lack of affordable housing are not expats.

Truth.

 

I find it quite disingenuous of people who talk about sky high interest rates in the early 80s.  A mortgage from those days was most likely refinanced to lower rates.  People overpaying now can’t renegotiate their principal not to mention they are competing with outfits such as Blackrock.  People paid 2.5x income for a house back then.  Now it’s closer to 6x (or more)

 

In the mid 60s a 2000sf co-op on Central Park West was 25k.  Mortgage rates were 6%

 

In the early 70s interest rates were still 6% and a house that I lived in in Los Angeles at the time was $300/month to rent and $30k to buy.  Now, a similar house would be close to $2,000,000.  Annual Prop 13 taxes for a house like that would be less than the new owners will pay for a month.

 

That being said, there are still affordable places to live in the US 

 

 

[Jingthing]

38 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Truth.

 

I find it quite disingenuous of people who talk about sky high interest rates in the early 80s.  A mortgage from those days was most likely refinanced to lower rates.  People overpaying now can’t renegotiate their principal not to mention they are competing with outfits such as Blackrock.  People paid 2.5x income for a house back then.  Now it’s closer to 6x (or more)

 

In the mid 60s a 2000sf co-op on Central Park West was 25k.  Mortgage rates were 6%

 

In the early 70s interest rates were still 6% and a house that I lived in in Los Angeles at the time was $300/month to rent and $30k to buy.  Now, a similar house would be close to $2,000,000.  Annual Prop 13 taxes for a house like that would be less than the new owners will pay for a month.

 

That being said, there are still affordable places to live in the US 

 

 

Affordable in the U.S.?

I don't think so.

Consider someone on a 1300 SS check.

170 goes to Part B.

I'm seeing some small town backwaters with theoretical rents as low as 600.

Rents go up and most of such backwaters have almost no actual rentals 

So maybe you could buy a basic house in such a place for 100k to 200k.

You could if you had that in cash. Nobody is getting a mortgage these days on that income.

No public transport in such places and little in nearby health care.

So you'd need a car to drive far for shopping and medical access.

If you could manage to get or keep a license as an elder, typical full running costs are 10k annually.

Yes you could do less with an old car but then that ups the repair bills.

Then there are the extra medical costs even on Medicare.

Typically several thousand annually.

 

Of course if the same person had 300k saved, more options in the US  

 

Yes of course a working age person could bootstrap these days, work two or three jobs (not in a backwater with few jobs).

 

As said multiple times it depends on the specifics of the person's situation.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Jingthing

[Yellowtail]

32 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

That's a no brainer, of course the low income folks should look elsewhere besides the US. Even if you have a house to return to you've got Insurance, taxes, upkeep, crazy utility prices. 

 

The only reason I could see for returning is medical care.

Until recently, regardless of income I would rather have lived in the US than in Thailand. But I can't imagine wanting to live here if I really had to worry that much about money. I would much rather be broke in the US than here. 

 

Where would you go if you were broke/skint? 

 

 

[onthedarkside]

A series of flaming and bickering posts have been removed or edited.  Please avoid making personal comments to, or about, fellow forum members.

 

[EVENKEEL]

24 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Until recently, regardless of income I would rather have lived in the US than in Thailand. But I can't imagine wanting to live here if I really had to worry that much about money. I would much rather be broke in the US than here. 

 

Where would you go if you were broke/skint? 

 

 

As a single guy, no car just a MB living in Patts area on 30 K thb/mo I'b be just fine. Nice condo with pool/gym close to beach, a trip to a soapy now and again, what's so bad? Cook at home mostly, a few beers around town, yeah life would be good.

[Yellowtail]

Anyone living in SoCal on $1,300 per month in social security would be entitled to SNAP benefits and HUD housing benefits. Would likely get free bus and train passes as well but I did not check those. Plenty of senior centers where you can get free lunches and play cribbage also.

 

One can also get a roommate or work part time. Plenty of work for most anyone that wants it. 

 

I was on SSI for much of the '90s. Lived in Downey, had a roommate, went to school and went fishing a couple times a week. It was not that bad. 

[Yellowtail]

8 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

As a single guy, no car just a MB living in Patts area on 30 K thb/mo I'b be just fine. Nice condo with pool/gym close to beach, a trip to a soapy now and again, what's so bad? Cook at home mostly, a few beers around town, yeah life would be good.

On 30K a month? That seems pretty tight, how would you get a visa? 

 

Where would you go if compelled to leave Thailand? 

[Jingthing]

20 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Anyone living in SoCal on $1,300 per month in social security would be entitled to SNAP benefits and HUD housing benefits. Would likely get free bus and train passes as well but I did not check those. Plenty of senior centers where you can get free lunches and play cribbage also.

 

One can also get a roommate or work part time. Plenty of work for most anyone that wants it. 

 

I was on SSI for much of the '90s. Lived in Downey, had a roommate, went to school and went fishing a couple times a week. It was not that bad. 

HUD senior housing waiting lists are typically several years.

Anyone ever evicted is ineligible.

As mentioned before landlords are dropping Section 8 to ride the high rent gravy train.

Yes SNAP helps a little.

I think you paint a Pollyanna picture.

 

That said a low income older returning expat with a clean rental history and lots of SAVINGS could possibly find a landlord by paying cash in advance and get on a HUD waiting list. If lucky after two or three years they could get placed. But without savings very unlikely.

 

People can't evade this reality. Returning as a low wealth low income older expat in these times will usually be GRIM unless they have mitigating things going on. Such as family taking them in or perhaps special skills commanding high consulting fees.

 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

On 30K a month? That seems pretty tight, how would you get a visa? 

 

Where would you go if compelled to leave Thailand? 

Visa either 800k in bank or agent.

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

HUD senior housing waiting lists are typically several years.

Not for vouchers 

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Anyone ever evicted is ineligible.

Are evictions that common? Would that still be on someone's record after living in Thailand for 20 years? In any event, I think it fair to say that anyone that's be evicted in not new to financial difficulties so blaming the rent  explosion might be a stretch. 

 

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

As mentioned before landlords are dropping Section 8 to ride the high rent gravy train.

Yes SNAP helps a little.

I think you paint a Pollyanna picture.

I think you paint a doom-and-gloom picture. Yes, for people that came from money and or that are used to high-living, it would be painful, but for people used to a tight budget, t's not that bad. 

 

Working again would not bother me much.

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Not for vouchers 

Are evictions that common? Would that still be on someone's record after living in Thailand for 20 years? In any event, I think it fair to say that anyone that's be evicted in not new to financial difficulties so blaming the rent  explosion might be a stretch. 

 

I think you paint a doom-and-gloom picture. Yes, for people that came from money and or that are used to high-living, it would be painful, but for people used to a tight budget, t's not that bad. 

 

Working again would not bother me much.

Evictions are not rare.

 

 

https://www.realtor.com/news/trends/evictions-common-think-whos-risk/

 

 

The HUD senior housing policy is no evictions ever.

A returning expat would be a non standard application.

They might reject based on not being able to verify history.

Agree to disagree on how grim things are but videos about living in cars and converting vans aren't massively popular for nothing.

[Yellowtail]

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Evictions are not rare.

I thought we were talking about Expats repatriating after years of living overseas, not the general population, but yes, I think it a good bet that people that were unable to pay their rent before they left, would likely not be able to pay their rent if then went back. 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The HUD senior housing policy is no evictions ever.

At 1,300 one would not have to be a senior to qualify. Also, the only way they would know someone was evicted would be it they had to be removed by the court. Even then, if it was not recent, it is not likely they would find it on one's record.

 

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

A returning expat would be a non standard application.

They might reject based on not being able to verify history.

They "might" do any number of things, but the system is in place to help low income people pay their rent. One could make a lot of arguments against the program, but that is what it's for, and generally speaking the people in the system genuinely want to help people get approved.

 

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Agree to disagree on how grim things are but videos about living in cars and converting vans aren't massively popular for nothing.

Videos of the Kardashians are massively popular as well, it doesn't mean people are expecting to go an d live like that. 

 

Id I was single, I would go back and get a job with a carnival. Housing provided, lots fun, new town every week, free housing...

[Jingthing]

33 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I thought we were talking about Expats repatriating after years of living overseas, not the general population, but yes, I think it a good bet that people that were unable to pay their rent before they left, would likely not be able to pay their rent if then went back. 

 

 

At 1,300 one would not have to be a senior to qualify. Also, the only way they would know someone was evicted would be it they had to be removed by the court. Even then, if it was not recent, it is not likely they would find it on one's record.

 

They "might" do any number of things, but the system is in place to help low income people pay their rent. One could make a lot of arguments against the program, but that is what it's for, and generally speaking the people in the system genuinely want to help people get approved.

 

Videos of the Kardashians are massively popular as well, it doesn't mean people are expecting to go an d live like that. 

 

Id I was single, I would go back and get a job with a carnival. Housing provided, lots fun, new town every week, free housing...

I am talking about something very specific. HUD senior housing. Yes you do need to be 62 or older.

 

Example.

 

https://www.phgainc.org/locations/decatur-ga/

 

 

As far as general section 8 housing the units actually need to be available. Conveniently in Pollyanna USA the trend of landlords leaving the program ignored.

 

You have an irrationally sugar coated rebuttal for everything. I don't think you're posting in good faith. More like a blood sport. 

 

This is a very serious issue not a game. I'd rather play wordle. Thus I wish to exit engaging with you about it.

 

Enjoy the carnival.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Jingthing

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I am talking about something very specific. HUD senior housing. Yes you do need to be 62 or older.

 

Example.

 

https://www.phgainc.org/locations/decatur-ga/

 

 

As far as general section 8 housing the units actually need to be available. Conveniently in Pollyanna USA the trend of landlords leaving the program ignored.

 

You have an irrationally sugar coated rebuttal for everything. I don't think you're posting in good faith. More like a blood sport. 

 

This is a very serious issue not a game. I'd rather play wordle. Thus I wish to exit engaging with you about it.

 

Enjoy the carnival.

If Decatur is your place, get a roommate.  $400

 

Or focus on midwestern cities and you’ll find cheap rent without having to live in a “backwater” as you call it.

 

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/roo/d/decatur-bedroom-available-near-100/7442171288.html

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, Airalee said:

If Decatur is your place, get a roommate.  $400

 

Or focus on midwestern cities and you’ll find cheap rent without having to live in a “backwater” as you call it.

 

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/roo/d/decatur-bedroom-available-near-100/7442171288.html

Personalization attempt ignored.

 

Shared housing has its place but there are serious downsides when moving into another person's space.

 

Like landlords? Enough to live with your landlord?

 

Situations like that are notoriously short lived and subject to housemates hating each other

 

Working full time, being out of the house usually required. So rare to be open to retired people wanting to mostly be at home.

 

Conflicts over shared bills.

 

Owners offering that often little dictators with long lists of petty rules. Renters can never feel at home. High stress. 

 

Leases rare. Can be kicked out any time.

 

Much more suitable for younger working people.

 

Usually a quite degrading undignified experience for older people.

 

Without sounding sexist this could be better for pairing old women.

 

For owners needing financial help then you can be the little dictator and take in your own boarders. A much better situation as you're the boss!

Edited February 23, 2022 by Jingthing

[Yellowtail]

18 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Visa either 800k in bank or agent.

Yes, I understand that, my question was how would one fund it on 30K a month.

 

B30K a month with US$20K as a reserve would be realistic. 

[EVENKEEL]

13 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, I understand that, my question was how would one fund it on 30K a month.

 

B30K a month with US$20K as a reserve would be realistic. 

We all know at least one guy who survives on a small pension and uses an agent. Would I want to be that guy? No.  But I would rather do it here in Thailand than in the USA. I could make it work in the USA on a small monthly pension because that's the kind of man I am. I make do regardless the circumstance. At least living in a place like Patts you'd have things to see and do that don't cost alot.

 

Used to be a poster here named CanarySun who claimed to live off 10,000K thb/mo. Had a fan room, cooked at home and walked around all day.

[Yellowtail]

5 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

We all know at least one guy who survives on a small pension and uses an agent. Would I want to be that guy? No.  But I would rather do it here in Thailand than in the USA. I could make it work in the USA on a small monthly pension because that's the kind of man I am. I make do regardless the circumstance. At least living in a place like Patts you'd have things to see and do that don't cost alot.

 

Used to be a poster here named CanarySun who claimed to live off 10,000K thb/mo. Had a fan room, cooked at home and walked around all day.

Used to be you could claim anything you liked on the income statement. 

 

What does an agent cost for someone with ni savings. 25-40? 

 

10K for rent

2K utilities

2K visa 

1K phone/wifi

 

 

So 500 a day for food, entertainment & incidentals? Certainly doable, but I would rather go back to the carnival....

 

[Toolong]

On 2/22/2022 at 9:50 PM, Jingthing said:

Yes, thanks for that.

It's not only a US problem.

As I've said here before a society that doesn't have widespread access to at least basic safe housing to everyone working full time and pensioners has failed as a society in a fundamental way. There is enough blame to go around for this from different sides of the political spectrum but the fact remains this is a truly rotten situation.

Agreed. Very well said. 'Failed', is correct. ????

[GypsyT]

This excellent movie was eye opener to me how bad things are in the US;

https://www.outsideonline.com/culture/books-media/nomadland-chloe-zhao-movie-review/

- Somebody posted earlier "Homeless are homeless by choice...."

 

[Yellowtail]

23 minutes ago, GypsyT said:

This excellent movie was eye opener to me how bad things are in the US;

https://www.outsideonline.com/culture/books-media/nomadland-chloe-zhao-movie-review/

- Somebody posted earlier "Homeless are homeless by choice...."

 

Aren't Gypsies homeless by choice?

 

I doubt anyone said all homeless are homeless by choice, but clearly many are.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Came across this in the news today:

 

"Realtor.com released its Monthly Rental Report this week, which showed how unaffordable they’ve become. Last month, it turns out, it was cheaper to pay mortgage on a starter home than to rent.

 

• January 2022 marks the eighth month in a row where rent growth has reached double-digits for 0-2 bedrooms properties (19.8% [year-over-year]), pushing the median rent in the 50 largest metros to $1,789.
   
• Rent by size: Studio: $1,476, up 21.0% ($256) year-over-year; 1-bed: $1,652, up 19.2% ($266); 2-bed: $2,000, up 19.2% ($323). This is a second consecutive month favoring price gains for smaller vs. larger units.
   
• Rents continue to increase the most in the Sun Belt… growing by over 25% compared to last January.

For that last point, it specifically mentioned Miami, Tampa, Orlando, and Jacksonville, Florida; San Diego and Riverside, California; Austin, Texas; Las Vegas, Nevada; Phoenix, Arizona; and Memphis, Tennessee."

 

Source link

[ThailandRyan]

Just rented out the house I own in LA Quinta, CA. The Palm Springs Area.  My mom had been living there until she passed 3 weeks ago.  Prior to her moving in I had rented it for $2k USD per month, a 2 bedroom 2 bath 1567 soft retirement community home.  As if 3 days ago I rented it out for $3500 a month on a 1 year lease.  Yes prices have gone silly.  It was worth $329k 16 months ago, now if I sold it I could expect to sell it for $469k......

 

I bought it in 2010 for $199k.

Edited February 26, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[Jingthing]

That rent is too damn high!

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, andy said:

Par for the course in California unfortunately.  Anywhere that is not a complete sh*th*le is going to have rent like that.  Just need to go further out in the desert to find affordability.  No worries, the retirement paradises of Barstow and Baker are waiting for you ????

Again better for most lower wealth expats to avoid returning to the USA at all!