New roles created for immigration chief and Big Joke as calls for police reform intensify

[webfact]

Picture: Bangkok Business News

 

Bangkok Business News reported on the latest meeting of the Police Commission chaired by Thai prime minister Prayuth Chan-ocha yesterday.

 

This is the body that oversees the Royal Thai Police.

 

Following the meeting it was announced that 273 positions will either be created or result in movement of officers under the rank of full general. 

 

Among those being created assistant commanders-in-chief are the head of immigration Pol Lt-Gen Sompong Chingduang and RTP advisor Lt-Gen Surachat Hakpan, the man known as Big Joke. 

 

What impact this will have on the two men's positions is unclear though it indicates that Surachate is well and truly back in the RTP fold after his exile to the PM's office a couple of years ago. 

 

Surachate has been tasked with police reform and is conducting surveys but his task has assumed far greater urgency in light of the shocking case of the alleged murder in custody of a drug suspect in Nakhon Sawan earlier this month for which seven police including the former chief of the Muang district police face charges.

 

Meanwhile senator Kamnoon Sitthisamarn criticised the "snail's pace" of a bill aimed at improving the structure of the RTP.

 

He said that public confidence in the force and the government has been further eroded after the Nakhon Sawan case and swift action is required to address public concerns.

 

Former democratic MP Witthaya Kaewparadai has blamed the PM for delays in reforming the RTP saying reforms are "years behind schedule".

 

Position buying in the RTP remains rife, the media has noted. 

 

Prayuth infamously announced during the early days of his tenure that corruption in Thailand would be eradicated within 20 years.

 

Seven years in and the Thai public are yet to see much evidence of this, especially in the RTP that lurches from one disaster to the next.

 

Big Joke's role in feeding into the reform process could be vital, suggests ASEAN NOW and with the former poster boy of the RTP now afforded the role of assistant commissioner the extra status could help. 

 

What the upgrade in position means for Sompong at the Immigration Bureau remains to be seen. 

 

-- © Copyright  ASEAN NOW 2021-08-27

 

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[Rookiescot]

I would give him the job. He is a stickler for the rules and doesn't mind stepping on peoples toes.

[RJRS1301]

Oh there are only so many toes he could step on, remember his vehicle has already been shot up once.

Perhaps the "under suspicion" police chief could loan him  his Bentley Continental to get to his new job 

Wonder if the eradication of corruption is on track with Pms twenty year plan for it to be gone

Edited August 27, 2021 by RJRS1301

[RotBenz8888]

6 minutes ago, webfact said:

reforming the RTP

How do you reform Thai culture? 

[ezzra]

5 minutes ago, RotBenz8888 said:

How do you reform Thai culture? 

Better yet, who will reform the "reformers"? that is the question...

[mtls2005]

11 minutes ago, webfact said:

Following the meeting it was announced that 273 positions will either be created or result in movement of officers under the rank of full general. 

 

Annual elephant-ticket bake-sale.

 

The amount of cash needed to create and facilitate such movement must be massive.

 

I'm sure big joke's return to the fold did not involve bags and bags of cash. All down to hard work and being a "stickler" for the "rules".

 

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

46 minutes ago, RotBenz8888 said:

How do you reform Thai culture? 

Reform = hide it better.

[Misterwhisper]

As long as I have been here - a whopping 3 decades - there has always been unending talk about "police reform". And herein lies the problem. It's only TALK, but never any concerted ACTION. And with good reason, too. There are way too many greedy snouts digging into the feeding trough (not only in the police force, I might add) -- and they are (understandably, perhaps) quite... uhm... "reluctant" to change that situation.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Misterwhisper

[tomacht8]

1. Simply set up an armed tax investigation team, which is not subordinate to the police, but to the financial tax ministry, with extensive powers.

Then, in the hierarchy from top to bottom, check the police apparatus for unusual wealth. Gladly with a "small" success bonus for confiscated, criminally acquired assets.

 

2. Establishment of a telephone tip hotline

 

3. Establishment of a specialized express court, which takes 3 months from the indictment to the judgment.

 

4. Immediate removal from service and disarming of the accused police officers pending the verdict.

 

5. Determination of a fixed date by which corrupt police officers can report themselves to be lenient.

 

6. Establishment of a central register of land holdings.

 

7. Obligation of banks to register for cash transactions abroad, initially over 1,000,000 Baht.

 

8. Annual obligation to provide a detailed statement of assets by all civil servants. In the case of time delays, hefty fines.

 

Just for a start.

[tomacht8]

9. And as an immediate measure, all trouser pockets on the uniforms should be sewn up.

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed.

[HAPPYNUFF]

Big Joke  had the decency to  ask my advice as to what to do with  the Thai police.  I told him to disband it.

[hotchilli]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Meanwhile senator Kamnoon Sitthisamarn criticised the "snail's pace" of a bill aimed at improving the structure of the RTP.

It was never intended to do anything, just window dressing.

The RTP have things just how they want them and no-one is going to change anything.

[Purdey]

3 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

1. Simply set up an armed tax investigation team, which is not subordinate to the police, but to the financial tax ministry, with extensive powers.

Then, in the hierarchy from top to bottom, check the police apparatus for unusual wealth. Gladly with a "small" success bonus for confiscated, criminally acquired assets.

 

2. Establishment of a telephone tip hotline

 

3. Establishment of a specialized express court, which takes 3 months from the indictment to the judgment.

 

4. Immediate removal from service and disarming of the accused police officers pending the verdict.

 

5. Determination of a fixed date by which corrupt police officers can report themselves to be lenient.

 

6. Establishment of a central register of land holdings.

 

7. Obligation of banks to register for cash transactions abroad, initially over 1,000,000 Baht.

 

8. Annual obligation to provide a detailed statement of assets by all civil servants. In the case of time delays, hefty fines.

 

Just for a start.

You may mean well but many of your suggestions may just be putting people's lives in danger.

Knocking off auditors isn't new in Thailand. The Finance Ministry doesn't have its own police force and therefore little power without policemen accompanying them.

A whistleblower or tip line means more police effort goes to find the tipster. Blaming the messenger is common here, there and everywhere.

Setting a time limit implies if the case goes more than 3 months the case is dropped. Look at the Red Bull kid and see how the statute of limitations (a time limit on cases) has helped him to get away with prosecution. 

Giving police time to report themselves could also mean more time for bumping off witnesses unfortunately. Immediate capture and imprisonment awaiting trial is safer.

The Land Department has a register already. The name of who owns the land doesn't mean all that much.

Sending over a million abroad? The country already has money laundering laws to check on inflows and outflows.

Wealth reporting is done for a limited number of people but if extended to thousands of police officers might prove difficult. However, spot checks may be the way to go. 

It's good for people to offer advice, but if it isn't taken up by locals it won't add up to much.

[klauskunkel]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

the Police Commission chaired by Thai prime minister Prayuth Chan-ocha yesterday

This is the body that oversees the Royal Thai Police.

the Covicd Czar is also the Police Czar. No wonder he is grumpy.

[rott]

6 hours ago, RotBenz8888 said:

How do you reform Thai culture? 

And how prevalent in reality is the practice of vote buying.?

[david555]

So ....expect some new rule or understanding of those rules to become our part , as new bosses or new roles  meaning =  showing their personal influence....( "new brooms swipe ...."etc. )

[Sydebolle]

Here we go again; read some years ago, that Thailand had more police generals and army generals than the next 56 countries together. Possibly North Korea was not included as they wear special uniform jackets to bear the weight of all their medals but the rest of the planet ........

I know of one country which does not even have ONE general - during peace times and it is called Switzerland. Wondering how bad illegality and crime must be running there - without a general? 

[Dogmatix]

Maybe reform needs to be pushed from the inside but Big Joke was allegedly a bag carrier for an influential person which was how he accidentally trod on the toes of a couple bag carriers for someone even more influential and got sacked from the police.  He seems to have been deeply involved in corruption and influence peddling.  So the reform thing is just a convenient hook to hang his hat on while it is a hot topic for a few days. 

[tomacht8]

1 hour ago, Purdey said:

You may mean well but many of your suggestions may just be putting people's lives in danger.

Knocking off auditors isn't new in Thailand. The Finance Ministry doesn't have its own police force and therefore little power without policemen accompanying them.

A whistleblower or tip line means more police effort goes to find the tipster. Blaming the messenger is common here, there and everywhere.

Setting a time limit implies if the case goes more than 3 months the case is dropped. Look at the Red Bull kid and see how the statute of limitations (a time limit on cases) has helped him to get away with prosecution. 

Giving police time to report themselves could also mean more time for bumping off witnesses unfortunately. Immediate capture and imprisonment awaiting trial is safer.

The Land Department has a register already. The name of who owns the land doesn't mean all that much.

Sending over a million abroad? The country already has money laundering laws to check on inflows and outflows.

Wealth reporting is done for a limited number of people but if extended to thousands of police officers might prove difficult. However, spot checks may be the way to go. 

It's good for people to offer advice, but if it isn't taken up by locals it won't add up to much.

That really is a muddled answer.

1. Do you know what a financial police force is that is not subordinate to the chief of police, but to the Ministry of Finance?

2. Do you know what a tax hotline is, where information about unusual wealth does not come to the police, but to an executive body at an tax office?

3. The point is to quickly bring proceedings against criminal officials to a conclusion that normally take years.

4. The possibility of self-reporting which has a mitigating effect. That has nothing to do with witnesses. Is practice in tax law in many countries.

5. No, in Thailand there is no central register of property ownership. The emphasis is on central.

6. The existing anti money laundering laws are as good as Swiss cheese. 

 

 

[Purdey]

18 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

That really is a muddled answer.

1. Do you know what a financial police force is that is not subordinate to the chief of police, but to the Ministry of Finance?

The CSI investigates economic crimes and special cases. 

 

2. Do you know what a tax hotline is, where information about unusual wealth does not come to the police, but to an executive body at an tax office?

I ran a whistleblower hotline for many years. People under investigation often spent their time trying to identify the whistleblower. If the tax office receives a complaint, do you think someone will not tip off the police for a kickback?

 

3. The point is to quickly bring proceedings against criminal officials to a conclusion that normally take years.

Whenever you force a limited timeline, a slow investigation will get dropped. See Red Bull case.

 

4. The possibility of self-reporting which has a mitigating effect. That has nothing to do with witnesses. Is practice in tax law in many countries.

Thailand is unlike “many countries” as we often read on this site. Don’t compare with the developed world.

 

5. No, in Thailand there is no central register of property ownership. The emphasis is on central.

Most provinces have a land registry office and these days information is on computer.

 

6. The existing anti money laundering laws are as good as Swiss cheese. 

That is a common issue. Doesn’t mean they aren’t keen to track the movement of funds. Thailand has all the laws and no a lack of diligence. 

As I said, you start interfering with Thais and expect to pay a price.

18 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

It just isn’t worth it.

 

 

[newnative]

On 8/27/2021 at 10:43 AM, Misterwhisper said:

As long as I have been here - a whopping 3 decades - there has always been unending talk about "police reform". And herein lies the problem. It's only TALK, but never any concerted ACTION. And with good reason, too. There are way too many greedy snouts digging into the feeding trough (not only in the police force, I might add) -- and they are (understandably, perhaps) quite... uhm... "reluctant" to change that situation.

And, apparently according to the article, they have just created 273 more greedy snouts.