Have you changed your mind on the COVID Vaccines?

[Yellowtail]

9 hours ago, cdemundo said:

I am not really surprised that you have resentments against teachers.

Why do you think I'm resentful of teachers? I don't think I am. 

9 hours ago, cdemundo said:

When you were in school were all your teachers stupid?

Why would you ask that, because you think I ask stupid people if they are English teachers? 

 

In any event, I don't remember much about primary school, but I think I thought they were all smart.

When I was in high school again, I thought they were all smart.

When I was in engineering school I realized that like students, some were bright, most were average and some were not bright. Again, I don't think any of them were stupid. 

 

 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, gargamon said:

No, sorry, wrong.

 

A non-scientist has an opinion and only looks for evidence that supports his or her opinion. A scientist has a hypothesis, and looks for evidence that supports or disproves said hypothesis. If a scientist finds something that doesn't support his hypothesis, he will adjust the hypothesis to match the latest data. A non-scientist will never, or at least very rarely, change his opinion.

 

Why do you and apparently Chomper, gargamon and others here assume all non-scientists are locked into their opinion and do not want to evidence that contradicts their position? There are many things I believe that I would very much like to be convinced I am wrong about, and I think that's true for a lot of people. 

 

In any event, trying to disprove a hypothesis is only done to support the hypothesis. The data collected while attempting unsuccessfully  to disprove the hypothesis is used as data that supports the hypothesis, yes? 

 

So I think it same to assume 97% of all scientists are working to prove climate change is a hoax, yes? 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

17 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Why do you and apparently Chomper, gargamon and others here assume all non-scientists are locked into their opinion and do not want to evidence that contradicts their position? There are many things I believe that I would very much like to be convinced I am wrong about, and I think that's true for a lot of people. 

 

In any event, trying to disprove a hypothesis is only done to support the hypothesis. The data collected while attempting unsuccessfully  to disprove the hypothesis is used as data that supports the hypothesis, yes? 

 

So I think it same to assume 97% of all scientists are working to prove climate change is a hoax, yes? 

 

“In any event, trying to disprove a hypothesis is only done to support the hypothesis.”

 

So far the best laugh the day.

 

Keep ‘m coming.

[Phoenix Rising]

8 hours ago, frantick said:

Haven't changed my mind. Continue to follow the rapidly changing science.

 

Soon, the twice vaccinated will be considered unvaccinated, having not had their booster. Then the statistics are out the window. If not the first booster, then the second or third, etc. Think you're out of it? 90% vaccinated? Bam, new variant, start over.

 

It won't end until the man-bun brigade, literally or figuratively, wakes up.

 

I'm not a conspiracy theorist; they're too incapable, stupid, and power hungry to think up a plan like this.

Who are the "man-bun" brigade and what is it they need to wake up to?

Edited September 3, 2021 by Phoenix Rising

[Phoenix Rising]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Why do you and apparently Chomper, gargamon and others here assume all non-scientists are locked into their opinion and do not want to evidence that contradicts their position? There are many things I believe that I would very much like to be convinced I am wrong about, and I think that's true for a lot of people. 

 

In any event, trying to disprove a hypothesis is only done to support the hypothesis. The data collected while attempting unsuccessfully  to disprove the hypothesis is used as data that supports the hypothesis, yes? 

 

So I think it same to assume 97% of all scientists are working to prove climate change is a hoax, yes? 

 

There comes a time when a hypothesis is supported by such an overwhelming amount of data that it is a waste of time trying to disprove it. Like trying to disprove the earth is round. That's when the hypothesis is accepted as a fact.

Now, the global warming hypothesis is not there yet but you would have to have had your head stuck firmly up your backside for the last several years if you haven't realized where this is heading.

[EVENKEEL]

9 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Who are the "man-bun" brigade and what is it they need to wake up to?

[cyril sneer]

I had a near death experience after the first jab, so would advise against it

[Chomper Higgot]

9 minutes ago, cyril sneer said:

I had a near death experience after the first jab, so would advise against it

So what vaccine was this, what happened?

 

 

[Yellowtail]

36 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

There comes a time when a hypothesis is supported by such an overwhelming amount of data that it is a waste of time trying to disprove it. Like trying to disprove the earth is round. That's when the hypothesis is accepted as a fact.

Is not being able to disprove a hypothesis a big part of it becoming a fact? 

 

36 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Now, the global warming hypothesis is not there yet but you would have to have had your head stuck firmly up your backside for the last several years if you haven't realized where this is heading.

I believe the Earth is warming and I don't doubt human activity impacts the change, BUT I doubt very much that a large percentage of climate scientists are working to to show that the Earth is not warming and or that human activity has no impact on the change. 

[Phoenix Rising]

1 hour ago, cyril sneer said:

I had a near death experience after the first jab, so would advise against it

 

57 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So what vaccine was this, what happened?

 

 

He nearly got run over by a baht bus.

[Phoenix Rising]

21 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Is not being able to disprove a hypothesis a big part of it becoming a fact? 

 

I believe the Earth is warming and I don't doubt human activity impacts the change, BUT I doubt very much that a large percentage of climate scientists are working to to show that the Earth is not warming and or that human activity has no impact on the change. 

"Is not being able to disprove a hypothesis a big part of it becoming a fact?"

Correct, they have not been able to do that. At some point you have to say; "Right, we've looked at this from all angles and nothing we have found disproves the hypothesis. Until new data comes in that counters the hypothesis it's likely correct."

 

"....I doubt very much that a large percentage of climate scientists are working to to show that the Earth is not warming and or that human activity has no impact on the change."
I don't think you understand how scientific research is done. The whole process is designed to find flaws in new hypothesis. Ever heard of the peer review process?

[BusyB]

10 hours ago, frantick said:

Haven't changed my mind. Continue to follow the rapidly changing science.

 

Soon, the twice vaccinated will be considered unvaccinated, having not had their booster. Then the statistics are out the window. If not the first booster, then the second or third, etc. Think you're out of it? 90% vaccinated? Bam, new variant, start over.

 

It won't end until the man-bun brigade, literally or figuratively, wakes up.

 

I'm not a conspiracy theorist; they're too incapable, stupid, and power hungry to think up a plan like this.

There is no plan, really. There is just a global epidemic of an extremely infectious virus, which kills a lot of people and disables many others.

And if I have to decide to follow then I'll follow the science and not the brownshirt and 'libertarian'  neurotics.

Edited September 3, 2021 by BusyB

[Yellowtail]

32 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

"Is not being able to disprove a hypothesis a big part of it becoming a fact?"

Correct....

Thank you. That's all I've been saying, that attempts to disprove a hypothesis are actually just another aspect of proving/supporting a hypothesis. 

[Phoenix Rising]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Thank you. That's all I've been saying, that attempts to disprove a hypothesis are actually just another aspect of proving/supporting a hypothesis. 

And here I though you implied the global warming hypothesis was suspect since no one/few were trying to disprove it. Silly me!

[Yellowtail]

Just now, Phoenix Rising said:

And here I though you implied the global warming hypothesis was suspect since no one/few were trying to disprove it. Silly me!

No, we were discussing opinions versus hypotheses, and my position is that they are similar which was scoffed at. 

[Phoenix Rising]

38 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

No, we were discussing opinions versus hypotheses, and my position is that they are similar which was scoffed at. 

They most definitively are not:

 

"An opinion is a statement describing a personal belief or thought that cannot be tested (or has not been tested) and is unsupported by evidence. A hypothesis is usually a prediction based on some observation or evidence. If a statement is made that cannot be tested and disproved, then it is not a hypothesis."

 

Practices of Science: Opinion, Hypothesis & Theory

[Yellowtail]

29 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

They most definitively are not:

 

"An opinion is a statement describing a personal belief or thought that cannot be tested (or has not been tested) and is unsupported by evidence. A hypothesis is usually a prediction based on some observation or evidence. If a statement is made that cannot be tested and disproved, then it is not a hypothesis."

 

Practices of Science: Opinion, Hypothesis & Theory

So if one has an opinion that is supported by evidence, it is no longer an opinion, correct? 

 

For example, I could say that in my opinion, riding a motorcycle without a helmet is dangerous and pointed to evidence that supported my opinion, it would no longer be an opinion but would become something more, yes? It might be a hypothesis, a theory or a fact, but as it is supported by evidence, per your definition it would no longer be just my opinion. Is that also correct?  

 

 

 

 

[rattlesnake]

11 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

You don't get it. We won't get past this until more are vaccinated.

Explain this then:

https://www.science.org/news/2021/08/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delta

 

Israel has among the world’s highest levels of vaccination for COVID-19, with 78% of those 12 and older fully vaccinated, the vast majority with the Pfizer vaccine. Yet the country is now logging one of the world’s highest infection rates, with nearly 650 new cases daily per million people. More than half are in fully vaccinated people, underscoring the extraordinary transmissibility of the Delta variant and stoking concerns that the benefits of vaccination ebb over time.

[teatree]

13 hours ago, BusyB said:

They are also taking up beds for others in serious need of ICUs, which has resulted in massive delays of cancer OPs for instance.

The problem with them is, whether or not they are deluded or clinically insane, they are very definitely immature - and therefore cannot understand that it's not about 'their' 'freedom'. It's about others.

 

What about smokers, the obese, those with lifestyle induced diabetes etc..? 

Edited September 3, 2021 by teatree

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, rattlesnake said:

Explain this then:

https://www.science.org/news/2021/08/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delta

 

Israel has among the world’s highest levels of vaccination for COVID-19, with 78% of those 12 and older fully vaccinated, the vast majority with the Pfizer vaccine. Yet the country is now logging one of the world’s highest infection rates, with nearly 650 new cases daily per million people. More than half are in fully vaccinated people, underscoring the extraordinary transmissibility of the Delta variant and stoking concerns that the benefits of vaccination ebb over time.

Plenty of great articles explain it. It's complicated. But yes, this virus is bad. And getting worse. In the end, jabs are our way out.

[Yellowtail]

19 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Plenty of great articles explain it....

Too many to link to one no doubt....

[rattlesnake]

Explain this then:

https://www.science.org/news/2021/08/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delta

 

Israel has among the world’s highest levels of vaccination for COVID-19, with 78% of those 12 and older fully vaccinated, the vast majority with the Pfizer vaccine. Yet the country is now logging one of the world’s highest infection rates, with nearly 650 new cases daily per million people. More than half are in fully vaccinated people, underscoring the extraordinary transmissibility of the Delta variant and stoking concerns that the benefits of vaccination ebb over time.

 

45 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Plenty of great articles explain it. It's complicated. But yes, this virus is bad. And getting worse. In the end, jabs are our way out.

Actually, it isn't too complicated. According to facts, vaccination doesn't work seem to be working that well.

[cyril sneer]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So what vaccine was this, what happened?

 

 

not allowed to say, forum rules

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

No, we were discussing opinions versus hypotheses, and my position is that they are similar which was scoffed at. 

A quick look in the dictionary gives a hint at why people are scoffing.

 

Opinion: a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

 

Hypothesis: a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation.

[Phoenix Rising]

1 hour ago, rattlesnake said:

Explain this then:

https://www.science.org/news/2021/08/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delta

 

Israel has among the world’s highest levels of vaccination for COVID-19, with 78% of those 12 and older fully vaccinated, the vast majority with the Pfizer vaccine. Yet the country is now logging one of the world’s highest infection rates, with nearly 650 new cases daily per million people. More than half are in fully vaccinated people, underscoring the extraordinary transmissibility of the Delta variant and stoking concerns that the benefits of vaccination ebb over time.

From the article you linked to:

 

"The sheer number of vaccinated Israelis means some breakthrough infections were inevitable, and the unvaccinated are still far more likely to end up in the hospital or die."

 

Again, for those who have a hard time getting the point:

The unvaccinated are still far more likely to end up in the hospital or die.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Phoenix Rising

[Phoenix Rising]

43 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Explain this then:

https://www.science.org/news/2021/08/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delta

 

Israel has among the world’s highest levels of vaccination for COVID-19, with 78% of those 12 and older fully vaccinated, the vast majority with the Pfizer vaccine. Yet the country is now logging one of the world’s highest infection rates, with nearly 650 new cases daily per million people. More than half are in fully vaccinated people, underscoring the extraordinary transmissibility of the Delta variant and stoking concerns that the benefits of vaccination ebb over time.

 

Actually, it isn't too complicated. According to facts, vaccination doesn't work seem to be working that well.

Uh, yes they are. All scientific data suggest that the vaccines (even the Chinese one) are very effective against people becoming seriously ill or dying from Covid.

What you say is complete BS and a lie.

[Yellowtail]

18 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A quick look in the dictionary gives a hint at why people are scoffing.

 

Opinion: a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

 

Hypothesis: a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation.

So far the best laugh the day.

 

Keep ‘m coming.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Yellowtail
text

[Phoenix Rising]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

So if one has an opinion that is supported by evidence, it is no longer an opinion, correct? 

 

For example, I could say that in my opinion, riding a motorcycle without a helmet is dangerous and pointed to evidence that supported my opinion, it would no longer be an opinion but would become something more, yes? It might be a hypothesis, a theory or a fact, but as it is supported by evidence, per your definition it would no longer be just my opinion. Is that also correct?  

 

 

 

 

I can only draw your attention to the article I linked to that explains the fundamental difference between an opinion and a hypothesis far more eloquently and precisely that I ever could.

If, after reading that, you still don't get it then I can only conclude that you're being argumentative and trollish.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So far the best laugh the day.

 

Keep ‘m coming.

 

 

Not only have you just scored an own goal, you seem oblivious to how and why you did so.

 

Yes Hypothesis is precisely that, an uncertain belief - hence, and I am happy to break this to you, the need to investigate through research to ‘test’ the Hypothesis.

 

Just stick with your opinions, they have by their very nature no need of fact or any factual basis.

 

 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, Phoenix Rising said:

I can only draw your attention to the article I linked to that explains the fundamental difference between an opinion and a hypothesis far more eloquently and precisely that I ever could.

If, after reading that, you still don't get it then I can only conclude that you're being argumentative and trollish.

I never said or meant to imply that an opinion is the same as an hypothesis, only that they are similar. It does not surprise me that you are not able to formulate your own response to the examples I provided, but it does surprise me that you not able to see the similarity.