Latest developments and discussion of recent events in the Ukraine War

[impulse]

5 hours ago, watthong said:

The anti-vaxxer conveniently denies/disregards the fact that real-life testing ie emergency usage of current vaccines has been carried out since the start of this year (or a smidgen earlier) on millions of humans. Shy on just one year, and millions upon millions jabs shot in arms. Anyone whose brains don't fog and whose eyes don't glaze can read data and see for themselves the benefits absolutely outweigh the (of needle in the haystack kind) risks. That vaccines do brilliantly the job that they are supposed to do. Save lives, keep people alive and away from the ICU. 

 

Yet the anti-vaxxer still insists on putting their faith on tests that should last 5-10 years (actually a bunch of nurses in the Mid west part of the USA demanded 12-14 years, because as nurses they just wanted a higher markup...) because real life data so far is not "adequate" enough. Why not makes it 20 - 40 years, just to be ever more sure? It seems perfectly fine with these folks that people around them will be dropping dead like flies with covid while they're playing with the numbers game. It's a different religion, nah, let's call a cult a cult, as in the let's all drink the cool-aid.

You'd risk you future progeny on an untested vaccine, rushed to market under an emergency decree?

 

Yeah, untested.  No woman has taken the vax, gotten pregnant, taken the baby to term and confirmed that the child doesn't have learning disabilities.  Let's wait to see how that goes before we demand people take the jab.  3-5 years, minimum.  Until then, it needs to be by choice, not by mandate.

 

 

 

[Danderman123]

50 minutes ago, impulse said:

You'd risk you future progeny on an untested vaccine, rushed to market under an emergency decree?

 

Yeah, untested.  No woman has taken the vax, gotten pregnant, taken the baby to term and confirmed that the child doesn't have learning disabilities.  Let's wait to see how that goes before we demand people take the jab.  3-5 years, minimum.  Until then, it needs to be by choice, not by mandate.

 

So, you are okay with mandates for vaccination for everyone but pregnant ladies?

[jacko45k]

Just now, Danderman123 said:

So, you are okay with mandates for vaccination for everyone but pregnant ladies?

Why only ladies!!!!

[Danderman123]

2 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Why only ladies!!!!

The prior poster specifically cited worries about pregnant ladies.

[fredwiggy]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

You'd risk you future progeny on an untested vaccine, rushed to market under an emergency decree?

 

Yeah, untested.  No woman has taken the vax, gotten pregnant, taken the baby to term and confirmed that the child doesn't have learning disabilities.  Let's wait to see how that goes before we demand people take the jab.  3-5 years, minimum.  Until then, it needs to be by choice, not by mandate.

 

 

 

Only one problem of not getting a vaccine. Over 99% of those that died in the US weren't vaccinated. Statistics don't lie. Still, it should be by choice I agree, but those that aren't getting vaccines are surely carrying and killing others.

Edited September 2, 2021 by fredwiggy

[Wiggy]

14 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

I think "cannot " isn't quite right. In your home country It's for free, but you insist to have a proper vaccination in Thailand, won't you? 

Flight to EU isn't expensive and a Johnson once off jab available. 

Why not fancy that? ????

That's a bit of an unprovoked attack. I was merely saying that another poster indicated that those who didn't want a vaccine should just get on with it. I don't 'expect' anything here, even after 29 years. That said, I've had my first shot of AZ and my second is due in two weeks' time. My post was aimed at those, particularly Thais, who desperately want to get vaccinated but can't due to various factors. So, I suggest you read things more carefully before attacking people next time and stop making wild assumptions.

[paulikens]

15 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

I'd rather a night with @tonray who has a social consciousness than someone who bleats that it infringes on their personal rights.

@GoldenTriangle you'd make a great couple.    two boring gits together.   be a right barrel of laughs out with you two.    although i doubt people like you ever go out, you could end having fun! god forbid that happened

[Sydebolle]

The people panic more about what they are being told - I assume ......... 

[sawadee1947]

1 hour ago, Wiggy said:

That's a bit of an unprovoked attack. I was merely saying that another poster indicated that those who didn't want a vaccine should just get on with it. I don't 'expect' anything here, even after 29 years. That said, I've had my first shot of AZ and my second is due in two weeks' time. My post was aimed at those, particularly Thais, who desperately want to get vaccinated but can't due to various factors. So, I suggest you read things more carefully before attacking people next time and stop making wild assumptions.

Obviously you didn't make it clear what you meant. In future mind you words and you would not be mistaken 

[Virt]

16 hours ago, Speedhump said:

Less at risk of severe symptoms but not really less risk to others. The science on vaccination preventing infection and also transmission is very sketchy, and even varies from vaccine to vaccine. 

A few reasons why it's smart to get the shots. 

 

It's true vaccinated people can catch covid 19 and studies show they cab develop as much virus as non vaccinated when it comes to the delta variant, but statistically fewer vaccinated people will catch covid-19 compared to the non vaccinated. 

Secondly the vaccinated people generally have the active virus for a shorter time, since the body has antibodies to start fighting the disease.

The third reason is that the vaccines keep most people out of hospital which is one of the major reasons to vaccinate people. 

 

Another thing that it really good when the majority get their shots.

Freedom once again. 

 

We had our fair share of lockdown, masks and social distancing here in Denmark, but it's all over for now, because more than 70 % are fully vaccinated.

Government hoped for 85% so it's not perfect, but hopefully enough. 

 

Last night I attended soccer March in Copenhagen.

Denmark VS Scotland. 

35,000 people,tons of beer, no masks, no social distancing, no nothin, and we cheered liked crazy after winning 2-0.

 

Thanks Vaccines ????

[Stubby]

5 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Still, it should be by choice I agree, but those that aren't getting vaccines are surely carrying and killing others.

But only the non-vacinated, right? Those who have had COVID and recovered, and those who are vacinated, have nothing to fear from the unavcinated, do they?

Edited September 2, 2021 by Stubby

[billd766]

On 9/1/2021 at 9:35 AM, tonray said:

The vaccination program is in progress ..those outside of red areas will soon have theirs too.  

But every time it comes close some other province starts screaming for more and more and more jabs which they get by diverting the vaccine from provinces that also need it.

 

if there are any vaccines left, they may be sent to the provinces who desperately need them but are not "tourist" provinces. As usual the rural provinces get the sh**** end of the stick. 

[Wiggy]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

Obviously you didn't make it clear what you meant. In future mind you words and you would not be mistaken 

Judging by the reactions to it many others seemed to know what I meant. 

[watthong]

12 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

I've been vaccinated twice with Moderna, however, that's actually a reasonable demand by anti-vaxxers. Thalidomide was put on the market in 1957 and was considered exceptionally safe. It was only four years later that it was recognised to be unsafe and removed from the market. Estimates of victims of the drug, not deaths, just victims, are 10,000 to 20,000 people worldwide. That was enough for it to be withdrawn. Until it was re-introduced decades later, as pharmaceutical companies applied again and again to have it admitted.

 

Oldham Kelsey, the brave woman in the US who kept refusing the Thalidomide applications protected Americans for a while, but there too it has been re-introduced.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#History

 

 

If you think people can be left defenseless to covid, and eventually die from it, while vaccines ought to be held up for testing another 5-10 years, and to you that was a "reasonable demand by anti-vaxxers," then I think those shots of Moderna were completely wasted on you. If you had any self-respect, you should not have taken those shots.

[watthong]

7 hours ago, impulse said:

You'd risk you future progeny on an untested vaccine, rushed to market under an emergency decree?

Yeah, untested.  No woman has taken the vax, gotten pregnant, taken the baby to term and confirmed that the child doesn't have learning disabilities.  Let's wait to see how that goes before we demand people take the jab.  3-5 years, minimum.  Until then, it needs to be by choice, not by mandate.

 

 

 

That's still too risky - how about the fate of the progenies of your progeny? Actually we should wait not 3 -5 years, let's make that 3- 5 generations to be absolutely safe. Learning disabilities and a myriad of other defects might well finally show up and could still be traced back to covid vaccines, don't you think?

 

To the anti-vaxxers: At this stage the numbers/statistics game played by your kind is only played among yourselves. Folks not affected by mass hysteria know real data when they see one - and they have seen enough. They also have enough of listening to voodoo science, to convoluted logic stemmed from the brains of the neurotic, the lunatic and the ignoramus; they also realize they have the innate compassion that compels them to protect not only themselves but also their fellow humankind. In short, they have dusted themselves off, gone to the nearest available vax centers, leaving the frogs to croaked their heart out in the pond.

[billd766]

17 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

I think "cannot " isn't quite right. In your home country It's for free, but you insist to have a proper vaccination in Thailand, won't you? 

Flight to EU isn't expensive and a Johnson once off jab available. 

Why not fancy that? ????

because although the vaccine may be free, the UK quarantine will cost you about £2,250, add the return air fare, the cost of getting all the paperwork to get back into Thailand, the 14 day quarantine when you eventually return and your "free" jab will turn out to be very expensive, That is just for 1 person, taking your wife and 2.4 children can easily triple the cost.

 

 

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/2.4_children

(2.4 children A stereotypical characteristic of normal family life; frequently used ironically)

[fusion58]

15 minutes ago, watthong said:

If you think people can be left defenseless to covid, and eventually die from it, while vaccines ought to be held up for testing another 5-10 years, and to you that was a "reasonable demand by anti-vaxxers," then I think those shots of Moderna were completely wasted on you. If you had any self-respect, you should not have taken those shots.

This.

 

These guys really ought to be more consistent.

 

Also, the argument that the vaccines are "untested" is a crock of <deleted>.  The pseudoscience these people are touting probably comes from the same "experts" who get paid to deny anthropogenic climate change.

[Tanomazu]

1 hour ago, watthong said:

If you think people can be left defenseless to covid, and eventually die from it, while vaccines ought to be held up for testing another 5-10 years, and to you that was a "reasonable demand by anti-vaxxers," then I think those shots of Moderna were completely wasted on you. If you had any self-respect, you should not have taken those shots.

I'm not saying vaccines should be held up you rude fool, I said it's reasonable to do longer term testing.

 

Putting you on the block list, don't bother to reply.

[sawadee1947]

2 hours ago, Wiggy said:

Judging by the reactions to it many others seemed to know what I meant. 

Of course you don't have an answer. 

[sawadee1947]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

because although the vaccine may be free, the UK quarantine will cost you about £2,250, add the return air fare, the cost of getting all the paperwork to get back into Thailand, the 14 day quarantine when you eventually return and your "free" jab will turn out to be very expensive, That is just for 1 person, taking your wife and 2.4 children can easily triple the cost.

 

 

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/2.4_children

(2.4 children A stereotypical characteristic of normal family life; frequently used ironically)

I know, but if you and family will be infected and one of you will die.....? 

[Speedhump]

4 hours ago, Virt said:

A few reasons why it's smart to get the shots. 

 

It's true vaccinated people can catch covid 19 and studies show they cab develop as much virus as non vaccinated when it comes to the delta variant, but statistically fewer vaccinated people will catch covid-19 compared to the non vaccinated. 

Secondly the vaccinated people generally have the active virus for a shorter time, since the body has antibodies to start fighting the disease.

The third reason is that the vaccines keep most people out of hospital which is one of the major reasons to vaccinate people. 

 

Another thing that it really good when the majority get their shots.

Freedom once again. 

 

We had our fair share of lockdown, masks and social distancing here in Denmark, but it's all over for now, because more than 70 % are fully vaccinated.

Government hoped for 85% so it's not perfect, but hopefully enough. 

 

Last night I attended soccer March in Copenhagen.

Denmark VS Scotland. 

35,000 people,tons of beer, no masks, no social distancing, no nothin, and we cheered liked crazy after winning 2-0.

 

Thanks Vaccines ????

I'd like to see how many studies show a SIGNIFICANT reduction in contracting the virus after vaccination. I believe that there are many studies already with no solid proof that any/all vaccines can give any 'worthwhile' protection against infection. The truth such as there is, will be in the numbers. 

[Virt]

1 hour ago, Speedhump said:

I'd like to see how many studies show a SIGNIFICANT reduction in contracting the virus after vaccination. I believe that there are many studies already with no solid proof that any/all vaccines can give any 'worthwhile' protection against infection. The truth such as there is, will be in the numbers. 

This one maybe?

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/

 

 

[billd766]

2 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

I know, but if you and family will be infected and one of you will die.....? 

But you cannot know if this will happen or not.

 

If is a very elastic word. I could die in my sleep tonight, be in a car crash tomorrow etc, IF I am unlucky. However IF I am lucky nothing will happen to me.

 

My wife has had her first jab, Sinovac, and goes for her second next week which should be AZ. My son is 17 and at this point is not vaccinated.

 

I am registered with 2 sites and my wife registered me at the amphur hospital at the same time that she registered. So far I have not received any notification. However life still goes on and I am not a bunker type of person.

 

I am 77 and have been aware from my teens that everybody will die at some point, but until then I will enjoy life as it comes.

 

As Doris Day once sang, Que Sera Sera.

[impulse]

6 hours ago, fusion58 said:

Also, the argument that the vaccines are "untested" is a crock of <deleted>.  The pseudoscience these people are touting probably comes from the same "experts" who get paid to deny anthropogenic climate change.

Show me the results of one long term test of the vaccine and I'll eat my dirty underwear.

 

It's a safe challenge, since none of them have even been out for a long term.

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by impulse

[Speedhump]

1 hour ago, Virt said:

This one maybe?

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/

 

 

You're aware I guess that one swallow doesn't make a summer. This sounds good but it's just one institute. That was my point. And which vaccines. 

[The Cipher]

5 hours ago, Speedhump said:

I'd like to see how many studies show a SIGNIFICANT reduction in contracting the virus after vaccination. I believe that there are many studies already with no solid proof that any/all vaccines can give any 'worthwhile' protection against infection. The truth such as there is, will be in the numbers. 

Man, you can literally go to any database of academic publications and find population studies that show the benefits of vaccines against Covid. Here's a link. There are dozens, take your pick.

 

If investigating that link is too much work, here's a screenshot of a conclusion from one study.

 

 

Sometimes I feel like all I do on here is people's homework for them. Come on, guys.

Edited September 2, 2021 by The Cipher
I un-bolded a word that had randomly bolded itself.

[AnotherFarang8]

2 hours ago, The Cipher said:

Man, you can literally go to any database of academic publications and find population studies that show the benefits of vaccines against Covid. Here's a link. There are dozens, take your pick.

 

If investigating that link is too much work, here's a screenshot of a conclusion from one study.

 

 

Sometimes I feel like all I do on here is people's homework for them. Come on, guys.

The screenshot you pulled out literally says “older” adults, it’s all about them. There is no good argument to vaccinate younger adults, given that the average age of deaths from covid ranges between 70-80, depends on the country. Younger adults question vaccination because they do not consider covid a dangerous disease for themselves. There are dangerous diseases that require vaccinations, usually at a very young age. Covid does not. The more pressure to vaccinate, the more the resistance to this bs.

[The Cipher]

42 minutes ago, AnotherFarang8 said:

The screenshot you pulled out literally says “older” adults, it’s all about them. There is no good argument to vaccinate younger adults, given that the average age of deaths from covid ranges between 70-80, depends on the country. Younger adults question vaccination because they do not consider covid a dangerous disease for themselves. There are dangerous diseases that require vaccinations, usually at a very young age. Covid does not. The more pressure to vaccinate, the more the resistance to this bs.

Heh. I'm 30 and I literally think that the response to Covid has been the single biggest mass overreaction in the history of mankind. Yeah I'm aware that Covid is mostly a danger to older and/or already unhealthy people, and yeah, younger and relatively more healthy people will probably be fine without a vaccine. But they should still get it anyway, and here's why...

 

My pro-vaccine argument isn't really based on telling people that they need a vaccine for medical reasons. It's just based on a practical approach to the problem. Rightly or wrongly the general world has decided that vaccine saturation is the key benchmark for reopening. And you could argue about whether or not that's valid, but from my perspective it just is an immutable fact. I can't change it right now, so I just accept it as given.

 

My goal has always been to get life back to normal as fast as possible. I like to think that's a shared objective for most of us. And so practically, getting vaccine numbers up seems to be the surest way of doing that. I mean, I guess I could fight the authorities, but I just don't see how that would be a quicker way of achieving the goal in this case.

 

And it's not like vaccines are doing any real harm to people. I get that these ones have a short track record, but on the balance of probabilities the chances that they'll have material negative effects in the future is pretty low, and the act of getting vaccinated isn't really too inconvenient. The other benefit of vaccines is that we know that they've been extremely effective at reducing serious Covid cases, and the less serious cases there are, the less likely that people will fear the virus enough to lock down again in the future (if you can't tell, I really fking hate lockdowns).

 

Anyway TLDR: if you're a healthy young person do you really need the vaccine? Probably not. But should you get it anyway? Yes. The non-medical benefits are worth the inconvenience.

[fusion58]

7 hours ago, impulse said:

Show me the results of one long term test of the vaccine and I'll eat my dirty underwear.

 

It's a safe challenge, since none of them have even been out for a long term.

 

1. Your definition of what constitutes a “long term” study seems totally arbitrary.

 

2. The safety of the Pfizer vaccine has already been sufficiently established, as evidenced by the FDA’s granting of full approval for its use. As for me, I will take the advice of the scientists and ID docs over the plethora of Internet “researchers” any day of the week.

[ukrules]

15 hours ago, Stubby said:

But only the non-vacinated, right? Those who have had COVID and recovered, and those who are vacinated, have nothing to fear from the unavcinated, do they?

Not if the vaccines work properly......and that is proving to be the big problem in some places right now.

 

Not here, not yet but it's coming.