Every First Jab Will Be Sinovac Vaccine in October

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, BangkokReady said:

No.  We're way past the "it's the best we can get right now so it's better than nothing" excuse.

Why what are the better options?

[BangkokReady]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

Why what are the better options?

Pfizer, Moderna, J&J, AZ, etc, even Sinopharm.

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, BangkokReady said:

Pfizer, Moderna, J&J, AZ, etc, even Sinopharm.

In Thailand those are not options, those are wishes.

[Ireland32]

7 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Why what are the better options?

Western Vaccines, Wake up  

[Ireland32]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

In Thailand those are not options, those are wishes.

If you want a good vaccine , you need to purchase, but most Thais too cheap 

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, Ireland32 said:

If you want a good vaccine , you need to purchase, but most Thais too cheap 

Most Thais cant afford it, but even if they could there won't be enough for all that would want.I f there was enough they would not have to devise this plan to split dosages between Cinovac and other. 

[BangkokReady]

6 minutes ago, sirineou said:

In Thailand those are not options, those are wishes.

No.  At this point they could have been pursued by now.  We have known about Delta and Sinovac long enough.  "It's all we have and is better than nothing" is no longer a valid excuse.  Maybe a few months ago, but not anymore.

[CharlieH]

Reported post with unattributed content removed.

 

If you are going to make claims or stastics etc you need to provide a link to the credible source from which it came. Otherwise you are wasting your time typing it, it will be removed along with any responses quoting it.

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, BangkokReady said:

No.  At this point they could have been pursued by now.  We have known about Delta and Sinovac long enough.  "It's all we have and is better than nothing" is no longer a valid excuse.  Maybe a few months ago, but not anymore.

Should have, could have , would have.These are only options if you have a time machine. 

We are where we are now.

What is the best way for the country, not expats and rich people who can buy a better vaccine, but for the country as a whole, to move forward. 

 

[BangkokReady]

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Should have, could have , would have.These are only options if you have a time machine. 

Cool, so continue to do nothing then in another three months time say "this is all we have, it's better than nothing".

 

Great plan.

 

There comes a point, like now for example, where you can no longer say "it's all we have" as you've had ample time to get something else, again.

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

Cool, so continue to do nothing then in another three months time say "this is all we have, it's better than nothing".

 

Great plan.

 

There comes a point, like now for example, where you can no longer say "it's all we have" as you've had ample time to get something else, again.

No , not at all. Continue to try and get as much of the better vaccine as you can, but in the mean time, work with what you have.

[ChomDo]

14 hours ago, Gold Star said:

Well that plan is not going to work out that well with so many refusing to accept a Chinese vaccine. Once millions of doses go stale dated, perhaps they might get the message and stop ordering it.

 

Most of the Thais I know will not get a Chinese jab, and are waiting for anything else to become available.  I think most can get a Sinovac anytime at Central if wanted.

 

I was just going to say the same. Know quite a few Thais that have been hesitant to get vaxxed and now I can't blame them anymore if Sinovac is the only choice. What happened to the idea that Pfizer and Moderna would be available for purchase in private hospitals? They we're supposed to have it long ago. Is that plan totally scrapped?? Many of us that went back to our home countries will need boosters of these two next year so hope they become available for purchase soon.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

12 hours ago, Soikhaonoiken said:

The 12 million Sinovac vaccine arrived with brown envelopes no doubt,  

 

I'm so glad Thailand arranged to host its own AstraZeneca vaccine production facility....

 

So the country could then turn around and pay to import millions and millions of less effective Sinovac doses from China.

 

And meanwhile in the rest of the world, people are getting and using the MORE effective mRNA vaccines that remain RARE here in Thailand.

 

Good job guys! ????

 

 

[Burma Bill]

14 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

will be the vaccine made by Sinovac,

By order of the Chinese Ambassador to Thailand????

[BangkokReady]

4 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Continue to try and get as much of the better vaccine as you can, but in the mean time, work with what you have.

That's the point, they could have a much better vaccine.  They chose an inferior vaccine long after it was common knowledge and long after better vaccines became available.

 

The opportunity and necessity of acquiring a better vaccine has already happened, but they have chosen Sinovac over better alternatives.

 

There is no excuse for continuing to order Sinovac over any other vaccine.

 

"Work with what you have" is just a smoke screen.  It doesn't apply here.  You don't get to use that rhetoric after deliberately getting yourself into a situation.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

WHO on Sinovac:

 

"Does it prevent infection and transmission?

 

"There is currently no substantive data available related to the impact of COVID-19 vaccine Sinovac-CoronaVac on transmission of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19 disease.

 

In the meantime, WHO reminds of the need to stay the course and continue practising public health and social measures that should be used as a comprehensive approach to prevent infection and transmission. These measures include wearing a mask, physical distancing, handwashing, respiratory and cough hygiene, avoiding crowds and ensuring adequate ventilation according to local national advice."

 

https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/the-sinovac-covid-19-vaccine-what-you-need-to-know

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[metisdead]

Posts using trolling references to the Chinese vaccines have been removed.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

There's been some recent reporting on the effectiveness of the Sinovac vaccine against the Delta variant, with the results showing it to be generally less effective than the AZ vaccine, but still offering some protection:

 

"A Brazilian preprint study published last week tracked 61 million people in Brazil from January to June, comparing infection, hospitalization, and death rates between unvaccinated individuals and those who received Sinovac or AstraZeneca jabs.

 

The study found that people fully inoculated with Sinovac reduced their risk of infection by 54% and risk of death by 74% compared with unvaccinated populations.

 

Still, the AstraZeneca vaccine appeared to offer more protection, reducing the risk of infection by 70% and the risk of death by 90%. Sinovac’s efficacy also waned in older populations, reducing the risk of death by only 35% in populations over 80."

 

https://fortune.com/2021/08/31/china-covid-vaccine-sinovac-sinopharm-delta-variant-effective/

 

The new Brazil study apparently didn't compare the same results for the mRNA Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, but presumably, their effectiveness rates would be even higher than those of the AZ vaccine, as that's what studies have generally shown thus far.

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[jerrymahoney]

7 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

WHO on Sinovac:

 

"Does it prevent infection and transmission?

 

"There is currently no substantive data available related to the impact of COVID-19 vaccine Sinovac-CoronaVac on transmission of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19 disease

but then from same report:

 

How does this vaccine compare to other vaccines already in use?
We cannot compare the vaccines head-to-head due to the different approaches taken in designing the respective studies, but overall, all of the vaccines that have achieved WHO Emergency Use Listing are highly effective in preventing severe disease and hospitalization due to COVID-19.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

but then from same report:

 

How does this vaccine compare to other vaccines already in use?
We cannot compare the vaccines head-to-head due to the different approaches taken in designing the respective studies, but overall, all of the vaccines that have achieved WHO Emergency Use Listing are highly effective in preventing severe disease and hospitalization due to COVID-19.

 

 

 

That finding about "highly effective" was made months ago when the WHO first issued its EUL for the Sinovac vaccine, which was before the substantial emergence of the Delta variant.

 

When they talk today about Sinovac's effectiveness, they're still pointing back to the prior data which is pretty much irrelevant in a Delta dominated world. And curiously, the WHO has yet to update those effectiveness findings/assessments for Sinovac in relation to the Delta variant.

 

Back when the WHO first approved Sinovac based on trials of its performance against the original version of the coronavirus, its effectiveness was significantly less than the same WHO assessments for the mRNA and AZ vaccines, but just barely enough to get approved. Clearly, Sinovac's performance hasn't gotten better -- and instead likely has deteriorated -- with the advent of the Delta variant.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Gold Star]

6 hours ago, sirineou said:

IMO , intubation or death are the ultimate travel restrictions 

I had 2 friends already, each with 2 doses of Sinovac, in ICU due to Covid for 2 weeks. One almost didn't make it.

 

I have no friends that got ill with 2 doses Pfizer.   

 

Clearly I would wait for the proper vaccines, but that's just my experience.

[jerrymahoney]

12 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

That finding about "highly effective" was made months ago when the WHO first issued its EUL for the Sinovac vaccine, which was before the substantial emergence of the Delta variant.

But the report you linked is dated 2 SEP 2021 and, in that report, they make no suggestion that the information presented is outdated or obsolete.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, jerrymahoney said:

But the report you linked is dated 2 SEP 2021 and, in that report, they make no suggestion that the information presented is outdated or obsolete.

But the fact that it is out dated. Delta was not around then

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

But the report you linked is dated 2 SEP 2021 and, in that report, they make no suggestion that the information presented is outdated or obsolete.

Correct. They don't. But that doesn't change the facts of the matter, and the reality of what their findings were based on  -- the original virus, not Delta.

 

If they were to go back and do some kind of comprehensive assessment of Sinovac vs Delta, they MIGHT find a vaccine not meeting their own requirements for approval.  And that vaccine, Sinovac, is currently the most given COVID vaccine in the world.

 

So for that reason among others, WHO doesn't seem to be rushing to re-consider their original findings in regards to the current Delta world:

 

"As of July, Sinovac and Sinopharm were the No. 1 and No. 3, respectively, most used vaccines in the world, according to Airfinity. The two manufacturers have also delivered 693 million shots to foreign countries while supplying the bulk of the 2 billion doses China has delivered domestically.

 

And the shots are providing some level of protection to billions worldwide in places that might not otherwise have access to vaccines."

 

https://fortune.com/2021/08/31/china-covid-vaccine-sinovac-sinopharm-delta-variant-effective/

 

Another case of "something is better than nothing."

 

But if I lived in someplace where I had ANY choice of different vaccines -- mRNA, AZ, or Sinovac/Sinopharm -- I can't think of any reason that I'd want to choose a Sinovac vaccine over any of the others. It would be pretty much at the bottom of my options list.

 

And that's not based on any kind of anti-China rant. It's purely based on the currently available info re vaccine effectiveness.

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[jerrymahoney]

9 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

But the fact that it is out dated. Delta was not around then

Sez U.

 

The EUL was dated JUN1 WHO validates Sinovac COVID-19 vaccine for emergency use and issues interim policy recommendations
1 June 2021 

 

First reports of Covid Delta in Laksi district per BaPo in April 2021.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Sez U.

 

The EUL was dated JUN1 WHO validates Sinovac COVID-19 vaccine for emergency use and issues interim policy recommendations
1 June 2021 

 

First reports of Covid Delta in Laksi district per BaPo in April 2021.

 

But the vaccine trials that the WHO based its original Sinovac approval on from several different countries were done months before that... So your comment above is pretty meaningless.

 

Delta wasn't the dominant virus in those vaccine trial countries at the time those studies were being conducted that formed the basis for the WHO's original EUA.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Sez U.

 

The EUL was dated JUN1 WHO validates Sinovac COVID-19 vaccine for emergency use and issues interim policy recommendations
1 June 2021 

 

First reports of Covid Delta in Laksi district per BaPo in April 2021.

Now read how WHO based their assessment, which trials, not those with Delta.

[jerrymahoney]

11 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

But the vaccine trials that the WHO based its original Sinovac approval on from several different countries were done months before that... So you're comment above is pretty meaningless.

 

Meaningless. Thank you. You win. A report by the WHO dated 2 SEP 2021 says that Sinovac is "highly effective". You say it is no longer to be considered "Highly effective." Guess that means in it is no longer "highly effective".

 

From the OP: BANGKOK, Sept 20 (TNA) – The first dose of COVID-19 vaccination for Thais next month will be the vaccine made by Sinovac, according to Deputy Prime Minister and Public Health Minister Anutin Charnvirakul.

 

Maybe you should write to or contact to the MoPH and tell them that Sinovac is no longer "highly effective" 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by jerrymahoney

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

8 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Meaningless. Thank you. You win. A report by the WHO dated 2 SEP 2021 says that Sinovac is "highly effective". You say it is no longer to be considered "Highly effective." Guess that means in it is no longer "highly effective".

 

From the OP: BANGKOK, Sept 20 (TNA) – The first dose of COVID-19 vaccination for Thais next month will be the vaccine made by Sinovac, according to Deputy Prime Minister and Public Health Minister Anutin Charnvirakul.

 

Maybe you should write to or contact to the MoPH and tell them that Sinovac is no longer "highly effective" 

 

 

 

Show me any credible scientific studies that have been done showing the Sinovac vaccine is what any reasonable person would consider "highly effective" specifically against the Delta variant -- especially compared to better performing Delta effectiveness results for the mRNA and AZ vaccines.

 

 

[jerrymahoney]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Show me any credible scientific studies that have been done showing the Sinovac vaccine is what any reasonable person would consider "highly effective" specifically against the Delta variant -- especially compared to better performing Delta effectiveness results for the mRNA and AZ vaccines.

 

 

So it's the old peer reviewed double blind study or nothing. I don't care.  Maybe the port you quoted that you like : 

 

"There is currently no substantive data available related to the impact of COVID-19 vaccine Sinovac-CoronaVac on transmission of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19 disease."

 

is out of date and obsolete as well.