By its very nature, sarcasm is negative and confrontational.

 

Irony is welcoming and amusing, and also informing.

 

Would you not  prefer irony over sarcasm, any day?

 

I think you would.

 

Literary devices are not equal.

 

Stop with the sarcasm.

 

Glory in irony.

 

Regards,

Example ?

33 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Example ?

Sure.

 

Read this:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Any_Given_Sunday

Just now, GammaGlobulin said:

Sure.

 

Read this:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Any_Given_Sunday

There is great irony in American Football, and especially in Pro Football.

 

The irony is that attention is being diverted away from what is important.

 

Or, can you not understand the irony of this.

 

If not, then this, too, is ironical.

38 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Example ?

Sarcasm is the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.

 

Not so good.

 

However, irony can be used, and is used, in many positive ways to provoke change for the better.

 

Irony and sarcasm are opposing forces.

I prefer twisted metaphors with a pinch of passionfruit.

Much better fodder.

 

The barbarians have claimed the gate. 

3 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Sarcasm is the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.

 

Not so good.

 

However, irony can be used, and is used, in many positive ways to provoke change for the better.

 

Irony and sarcasm are opposing forces.

So, give an example of this, not everyone knows exactly what these are or how they are used.If you are going to compare them, help people understand and give examples.

.

3 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Irony and sarcasm are opposing forces.

.

 

Sarcasm is a form of irony....

 

I like both, when used appropriately. I can take it as well as I dish it out.....

 

Thank you so much for a short post!

19 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

So, give an example of this, not everyone knows exactly what these are or how they are used.If you are going to compare them, help people understand and give examples.

 

 

NATIONALISM is ironical in that rampant nationalism destroys the nation.

 

Is this an example that might be helpful...?

 

The irony is in the fact that, for example, in Germany, under Hitler, the Germans were striving to rebuild a nation, but destroyed their nation, in the process.

 

Nationalism is irony, in most cases, since it invariably destroys what it purports to be seeking.  Total irony.

 

So, this is my best example.

 

Sarcasm is often malicious and irony subtle and fine.

4 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

By its very nature, sarcasm is negative and confrontational.

Suck it up and deal with it, Snowflake!

Just now, IgboChief said:

Suck it up and deal with it, Snowflake!

Just a matter of taste.

 

(no worries, if you prefer sarcasm)

Why only on "any given Sunday" ?

 

And who is defining this a a "good forum"? The "Fact Checkers" , LOL.

 

Who Is fact checking the fact checkers?

 

Stop making me do word maths in the morning.   ????

 

The irony of using the word "American" and "football" in the same sentence.

Or is that sarcasm?

18 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Irony is welcoming and amusing, and also informing.

But, when asked to provide an example of irony, you replied that this is your best example ...

13 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

 

NATIONALISM is ironical in that rampant nationalism destroys the nation.

 

Is this an example that might be helpful...?

 

The irony is in the fact that, for example, in Germany, under Hitler, the Germans were striving to rebuild a nation, but destroyed their nation, in the process.

 

Nationalism is irony, in most cases, since it invariably destroys what it purports to be seeking.  Total irony.

 

So, this is my best example.

 

How ironic [sarcasm].

The definition of sarchasm?

 

The intellectual gap between the person who makes a sarcastic joke and those who don't get it.....

 

 

On 9/26/2021 at 10:26 AM, Tarteso said:

Sarcasm is often malicious and irony subtle and fine.

That would be irony filings.

did the sarcasm thread upset the americans?

On 9/26/2021 at 11:20 PM, chickenslegs said:

But, when asked to provide an example of irony, you replied that this is your best example ...

How ironic [sarcasm].

Another Example, then....:

 

The irony of being a sentient being is that being sentient is so very painful. And, the gift of this knowledge means that, each and every morning, staring oneself in the mirror, one might think to oneself, "Another day gone by, and another day closer to my final demise."

 

Knowledge is a curse, even while most of us also feel blessed to have the self-awareness sufficient enough to know we are alive, and that we are different from eggplants, for example.

 

If one were an eggplant, then life would be less stressful.

 

No doubt, it is ironical that the same quality that provides us pleasure, and that which distinguishes us from all other animals, is the very same quality that provokes in us great existential angst, not to mention everlasting pain in the hereafter, forever and ever.

 

Is it not a matter of great irony that the gift of self-knowledge is also a curse?

 

Maybe yes.

Maybe no.

 

Some people, according to their beliefs, may think they are "going places" when they leave this world.

 

Just one more instance of irony, maybe.

 

 

 

 

On 9/27/2021 at 12:52 PM, cyril sneer said:

did the sarcasm thread upset the americans?

Sarcasm is upsetting to everyone, in most cases.

Would you not agree?

Or, then, what is the purpose of it?

On 9/26/2021 at 5:37 AM, GammaGlobulin said:

Irony and sarcasm are opposing forces.

Ironically, that cannot be true, given that sarcasm is a subset of irony.

Sarcasm is the use of irony. point out the irony and in doing so, make a sarcastic statement

17 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

Ironically, that cannot be true, given that sarcasm is a subset of irony.

Are you saying that you now wish to use set theory to analyse the differences between sarcasm and irony?

 

Be my guest.

 

Take a stab at it.

 

And we will see how far you can go with this.

 

Waiting.......

 

While you are at it, please include satire into your Venn Diagram.

Wow,

 

What an unbelievably interesting thread.

 

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

Wow,

 

What an unbelievably interesting thread.

 

 

 

 

Wait a minute.  Sorry.  Can we not use parody to satirize?

Let's also keep this image in mind, here, please...

 

   One type of verbal irony is sarcasm, where the speaker says the opposite of what he or she means in order to show contempt or mock. Other types of verbal irony include overstatement (or exaggeration) and understatement.

       

 

Definition of Verbal Irony

 

To define it simply, it occurs when a character uses a statement with underlying meanings that contrast with its literal meaning; it shows that the writer has used verbal irony. Writers rely on the audience's understanding of the English language and there intelligence for discerning the hidden meanings they intend to convey.   

Note:

 

Just in case there might be some ESL guys reading this thread....

 

Please do not rely on anything stated above in order to inform you about the differences between Parody, Satire, Sarcasm, Irony, etc.

 

Instead, if you want to know more about this important topic, then please read a good textbook.

 

Or, you might also glean cursory knowledge about this topic through reading Wikipedia.

 

However, what you, as ESL guys, should not do is to read anything stated above... without a grain of salt, to put it politely.

 

====

 

In most cases, for ESL students, learning how to distinguish parody from satire, or sarcasm from irony, is a daunting task that most non-native-English students will never master.

 

But, please don't feel bad about this almost insurmountable challenge, because, understanding English at this level is really not easy for most non-native English speakers.

 

Maybe Conrad could do it.

 

But, Lin Yutang, ...  not so sure.

 

Parody is not so easy, and neither is satire.

 

Or, if you want to read a satire in French, then you can try reading Candide, which you will absolutely love.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alanis Morissette famously didn't nail the meaning of ironic  in the hit song  'Isnt it Ironic' .

 

A traffic jam when you're already late
A no-smoking sign on your cigarette break
It's like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife
It's meeting the man of my dreams
And then meeting his beautiful wife

 

I could sarcastically say 'She sure is clever and smart. '

But that would be ironic as she is in fact a clever musician known world wide, with a large and successful body of work, who made one mistake.  And I am posting here with nothing much to say to an audience who doesn't care. There lies the danger of sarcasm - it can be a cheap shot or laugh based on irony that does not have strong foundations.  If it's ironic underpinnings are strong the sarcasm has a better chance of being interesting and funny.