Thailand's 'draconian' alcohol laws in the spotlight

[Mac Mickmanus]

13 minutes ago, DoctorB said:

 

These are fascinating retrospective justifications. The second one about the monks I have never heard before and is truly original. But I followed the whole saga at the time, along with Purachai's efforts to get the night entertainment industry closed well before midnight, and certainly recall the school argument being used. After all, you can't have a decent moral panic without dragging kids into it.

I followed the story as it happened as my friend was a bar owner and this was back when bars opened all night (ten years or so ago) and there were Temples in close proximity and the Temples were complaining that the noise all night distracted the Monks and kept them awake . 

  New rules were bought in stating that no alcohol could be sold within 100 meters of a Temple , then they began enforcing the 12 AM bars closures , and the Temples seemed content with that and the 100 meter law was not enforced . 

[Misterwhisper]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

First time I ever heard a new term for me was an American guy and we were about to drive into town.

He asked if I wanted a "Road Coke". (Bottle of booze for the trip).

In Oz we call that a "Traveller" 

In Germany we call that a "Kraut".

[BangkokReady]

Fairly obvious why bars are closed.  Understandable why bar owners want their bars open, but no point in pretending they aren't the highest risk places in terms of spread.  Until vaccination is at a high enough level they cannot open.  They should be focusing on vaccination.

[Dmaxdan]

1 hour ago, Farangdk said:

 

Come on Thailand.. People must adapt to this Chinese virus. People need to learn to live with this virus. The virus will be around for a long time, maybe forever. Open Thailand. People need to start making money and get some food on the table, start to have a life, many lost their home and living on the streets. There is only one way for Thailand and that is to open Thailand. Bring in the tourists/ people who have already been vaccinated. Get more and more Thais vaccinated in a hurry and test all the time and lot more. 

Right now, it is a joke and Thailand is more or less falling apart.

All people can buy alcohol in the nearest 7/11 or in any store. But I cannot take my wife out for a nice dinner and get a glass of wine with dinner. Where is the logic? I know alcohol is to blame for many things, always has been and always will be, but blaming alcohol for being a factor in avoiding getting Covid is ridiculous.

 

And Thailand, please stop all your Mickey Mouse laws and regulations regarding expats and tourists.

Alcohol has never been blamed for being a factor in avoiding getting Covid, not even here in Thailand.

Thailand reasoning for these restrictions is the effect that alcohol has on the body if you drink enough of it, basically in layman's terms "getting drunk"

Anyone who has ever been drunk knows that their judgment is impaired, their inhibitions are lowered and their brain functions and concentration levels slow down drastically.

All of this means that drunk people will almost certainly forget or more likely, not care about all the Covid protocols that have been put in place such as social distancing, wearing a mask and washing their hands etc.

And this in turn could increase the risk of outbreaks of the disease.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Heng]

1 hour ago, NE1 said:

Well why was it put in place ?

To reduce the number of drunk drivers on the road when children were getting out of school.   The same for banning alcohol sales at gas stations.   The key word was reducing.   No doubt hard core drinkers would still do it.    I was just a casual but regular DUI vehicle operator that found the laws inconvenient so I pretty much stopped. 

[DrJack54]

5 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

Fairly obvious why bars are closed.  Understandable why bar owners want their bars open, but no point in pretending they aren't the highest risk places in terms of spread.  Until vaccination is at a high enough level they cannot open.  They should be focusing on vaccination.

Thinking you don't go to bars much. 

"Highest risk places"?....say what!

Thinking that you don't go to shopping malls, big C supermarkets, 7/11,s 

You name it. 

Oh I forgot...it's because bars serve alcohol. Didn't think of that.

[BangkokReady]

3 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Thinking you don't go to bars much. 

"Highest risk places"?....say what!

Thinking that you don't go to shopping malls, big C supermarkets, 7/11,s 

People in bars behave completely differently to people in malls or supermarkets.  This difference is what makes bars far more high risk.

[Mac Mickmanus]

48 minutes ago, DoctorB said:

 

These are fascinating retrospective justifications. The second one about the monks I have never heard before and is truly original. But I followed the whole saga at the time, along with Purachai's efforts to get the night entertainment industry closed well before midnight, and certainly recall the school argument being used. After all, you can't have a decent moral panic without dragging kids into it.

Have you ever seen any schools kids buying alcohol after 5 PM ?

   I have never seen that before , which suggests there isnt a problem with school kids buying alcohol and they would be in school at 2 PM anyway 

[overherebc]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

If you cross a county line on a Sunday! Alcohol restrictions in the USA are confusing!

Canada (70's) was similar. If your girlfriend was 19, depending on province you could sleep with her and both drink. Cross the line she couldn't drink but you could sleep with her. Cross another line you couldn't sleep with her but she could have a beer.

Confusing much.

[DrJack54]

11 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

People in bars behave completely differently to people in malls or supermarkets.  This difference is what makes bars far more high risk.

That's a joke right?

Yep when I go to Stumble Inn, Soi 4 for a quiet one and watch the world go by its all good till they give me a pint and at some point i take my clothes off and start trying to hump bar stool.

Give me a break.

 

[James105]

28 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

Fairly obvious why bars are closed.  Understandable why bar owners want their bars open, but no point in pretending they aren't the highest risk places in terms of spread.  Until vaccination is at a high enough level they cannot open.  They should be focusing on vaccination.

Factories, construction sites and markets are the highest risk places when it comes to covid.  Nightclubs, indoor boxing venues, closed front bars would also be in that category, but outdoor bars and restaurants have never been high risk and never will be.   If they were that concerned about covid spreading then they would have closed the places where covid actually spreads in high numbers.

[Rinrada]

23 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Thinking you don't go to bars much. 

"Highest risk places"?....say what!

Thinking that you don't go to shopping malls, big C supermarkets, 7/11,s 

You name it. 

Oh I forgot...it's because bars serve alcohol. Didn't think of that.

In the not too distant past it was quiet acceptable to order up a "tower"  or 3 at 1.59 PM and sit around a table in Big Cs food court with your friends until 5 PM...hic.

[DrPhibes]

2 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

They do miss the bigger picture.......or even the basic picture.

..or even that it's a picture.  Looks more like a poorly drawn police sketch to me ????

[BangkokReady]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

Yep when I go to Stumble Inn, Soi 4 for a quiet one and watch the world go by its all good till they give me a pint and at some point i take my clothes off and start trying to hump bar stool.

You paint a beautiful picture of a well mannered gentleman enjoying a quiet and relaxing beverage alone, but for many (most?) alcohol involves large groups of drunk people, without masks, shouting in each other's faces.  This is obviously extremely high-risk behavior and, unfortunately, cannot be prevented without banning all alcohol consumption.

 

I know that's inconvenient for many, but it's just the way it is.  At least your inconvenience is saving lives, so that's something positive.

[DrPhibes]

23 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Canada (70's) was similar. If your girlfriend was 19, depending on province you could sleep with her and both drink. Cross the line she couldn't drink but you could sleep with her. Cross another line you couldn't sleep with her but she could have a beer.

Confusing much.

And then there's the donkey, but that's a whole different crossed line ????

[BangkokReady]

 

11 minutes ago, James105 said:

outdoor bars and restaurants have never been high risk and never will be.   

Restaurants perhaps, but I think even outdoor drinking could be high-risk given how close people get to each other.

 

11 minutes ago, James105 said:

If they were that concerned about covid spreading then they would have closed the places where covid actually spreads in high numbers.

I think they have done intermittently.  Probably reluctant to keep certain places closed due to people needing to eat.  I would assume they see places like bars as purely recreational, so the risk/reward is not favorable.

[DrJack54]

27 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

You paint a beautiful picture of a well mannered gentleman enjoying a quiet and relaxing beverage alone, but for many (most?) alcohol involves large groups of drunk people, without masks, shouting in each other's faces.  This is obviously extremely high-risk behavior and, unfortunately, cannot be prevented without banning all alcohol consumption.

 

I know that's inconvenient for many, but it's just the way it is.  At least your inconvenience is saving lives, so that's something positive.

In between this alcohol/bar ban and the previous ban right back in April 2020, bars were opened. Bangkok, Pattaya etc.

Did you visit bars at that time? I did. Guess what... embarrassing empty. 

The picture you paint is the times pre covid and all the tourists in full flight in bars. Some over the top.

 

News flash....there is hardly any tourists in Thailand. 

It's expats such as myself.

 

Many are over the bar scene. Been there done that so to speak.

More go to a bar for a catch up thing for those that live here ongoing.

Reading your post to me sounds like you have never been to a bar in covid times.

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by DrJack54

[Rinrada]

 

All roads lead to Pu Ket... Phuket officially allows drinking and selling alcohol in restaurants, effective October 1sthttps://thepattayanews.com/2021/09/29/phuket-officially-allows-drinking-and-selling-alcohol-in-restaurants-effective-october-1st/

Edited September 29, 2021 by Rinrada
peint

[DrJack54]

34 minutes ago, Rinrada said:

In the not too distant past it was quiet acceptable to order up a "tower"  or 3 at 1.59 PM and sit around a table in Big Cs food court with your friends until 5 PM...hic.

Keep in mind the vast majority of the population is Thai.

They (generally) don't drink in bars. ( not the farang type bars in this thread)

If we went to place like Bang Saen or Koh Samet etc the Thai group of friends drink out of back of the pickups and/or on the beach in groups. Good on em. 

 

Open bars tomorrow and see how well Soi 4 Bangkok and Soi 7-8 Pattaya (to name a couple) will be doing trade wise. 

Ghost town stuff. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by DrJack54

[mikebell]

2 hours ago, Farangdk said:

All people can buy alcohol in the nearest 7/11 or in any store.

Except between 2-5pm/on numerous Buddha Days.

[BangkokReady]

12 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Reading your post to me sounds like you have never been to a bar in covid times.

There are plenty of illegal parties being busted regularly, and those are just the ones we hear about.  There are likely a lot more and if drinking was allowed many more than that would be occurring.  There was a video on this very site of a party in Pattaya shortly before the third wave.  Plenty of people, all very close to each other, and a lot of people got covid.  People clearly still want to drink and party in Thailand.

 

Obviously you're entitled to your opinion, and I'm not going to refute anything you claim to have experienced in the bars that you have visited, but I think available evidence, plus common sense, suggests the alcohol ban is justified in helping to prevent the spread of covid.

[robblok]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Teenagers are not allowed to buy alcohol , having a law stopping them from buying alcohol at certain times would be pointless , because theres already laws stopping them from buy alcohol at any time of the day 

Not pointless it was more effective then the law that did not allow them to buy because of their age.

 

I think a lot of people don't understand the rationale behind it. Now the big shops can't sell alcohol to kids at those times. Only ones who can are small mom and pop shops. So it works. Before kids could buy in the big shops as nobody checked.

 

It was too hard to enforce them to check ID and not let kids buy, this is easier to enforce so it works better.

 

The question is is this a valid reason. Does anyone know a cost effective way of checking it an other way.

 

These time bans of alcohol are easily retrospectively checked because tills have a time and date. So a few people can enforce a ban instead of huge amounts of cops. Also shops know they cant get away with it as these things are registered for a long time.

 

So it certainly worked, question is is it justified. 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Thinking you don't go to bars much. 

"Highest risk places"?....say what!

Thinking that you don't go to shopping malls, big C supermarkets, 7/11,s 

You name it. 

Oh I forgot...it's because bars serve alcohol. Didn't think of that.

I guess your the one that does not go to bars and supermarkets. I don't go often anymore but i recall having girls on my lap and people bending over close to each other and in general speaking louder and closer to others. I also don't see people act like tipsy drunk people do in bars. The only time 711's and supermarkets are a problem is when checking out. But they keep you now at a certain distance. 

 

And yes bars serve alcohol are NOT needed food from shopping malls is needed. (Ok some expats think its a human right / first life need but that is just in their mind). 

 

I think its so hard for the bar crowd to accept as drinking and the ladies are what keeps them happy. I get it loads of my friends are complaining about the gyms not being open too. If something is closed what you really want then you get annoyed. 

 

Just for the record, the super spreader events were in Bars and sport stadiums. Havent heard of such an event in supermarkets at all. Also don't forget how much time do you spend in a supermarket (i rush through them but i dont live far from them if you go once in two weeks or a week it is different)

 

 

[realfunster]

47 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

That's a joke right?

Yep when I go to Stumble Inn, Soi 4 for a quiet one and watch the world go by its all good till they give me a pint and at some point i take my clothes off and start trying to hump bar stool.

Give me a break.

 

 

You’ve gone full straw man with your stripping and bar stool humping example, I can’t say I have ever seen anything like that but it seems reasonable of the other poster to suggest that when people are drunk, a reasonable proportion can over-relax and behave differently which might not be helpful during a pandemic. 

Thailand is far from alone in placing restrictions on a range of social and drinking places such as pubs, bars and nightclubs, not sure what your fuss is about ?

 

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

There are plenty of illegal parties being busted regularly, and those are just the ones we hear about.  There are likely a lot more and if drinking was allowed many more than that would be occurring.

Nice smoke screen.

I will pick one random city.

Udon Thani. Has bar area called Day Night. Those bars were dead prior to covid.

There was separate set of bars known as Nutty Park. 

Almost finished/closed pre covid.

The bars in Day Night have few regulars each. 

I like Zan Zee bar. Often only 3-4 people there. This was pre covid.

Seems to me that you have very little idea of farang bars in Thailand. 

 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

After he and Purachai brought in the 2am closing which I think happened in 2001 iirc. 

 

Then there were the continuing raids on non-Police owned venues throughout the country in particular Bangkok, where venues deemed immoral were arbitrarily shut down. They had the pee-test bus rock up and test all the ladies, occasionally if they didn't like the look of you they may make a foreigner take a test too. 

 

Things certainly changed for the worse under Thaksin from the glory 'anything goes' days of the 90's and before. 

Wow just fell of my chair, did not expect you to say anything negative about Thaksin. Seems you finally start to understand that they are all similar. If it was up to me places should be open again after 2am (ok not in residential areas). I wont visit and certainly not after 2am but if people like it why not.(as long as some zoning is there)

 

I am also for legalizing the flesh trade or at least make sure that the woman have some more rights and not looked down on.

 

But to be honest on both sides there is no real incentive to do this they want to act like they are so virtues while im sure behind the screens they are as bad if not worse as the rest of us. Bunch of hypocrites. 

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Nice smoke screen.

I will pick one random city.

Udon Thani. Has bar area called Day Night. Those bars were dead prior to covid.

There was separate set of bars known as Nutty Park. 

Almost finished/closed pre covid.

The bars in Day Night have few regulars each. 

I like Zan Zee bar. Often only 3-4 people there. This was pre covid.

Seems to me that you have very little idea of farang bars in Thailand. 

 

I think you should pic your spots better, to expect that expat bars survive in those locations is a bit crazy.

 

Its a fact that less and less expats are around and they spend less. 

 

I think you should look at other more touristic area's if you like farang bars but even there they are in the decline because of a shift in demographics. 

[aZooZa]

If you're a paying guest at a hotel, e.g. in Chon Buri, will they serve alcohol - e.g. on their own terrace outside or in their restaurants? Or is it room service only, or buy at 7/11? Anyone know of such a hotel(s)?

[BangkokReady]

Just now, DrJack54 said:

Nice smoke screen.

Smoke screen?  People are still drinking and partying in Thailand.  If bars were open selling alcohol, people would be in them drinking, this would lead to increased spread of covid due to the way people behave when consuming alcohol.  It's as simple as that.

 

Just now, DrJack54 said:

Seems to me that you have very little idea of farang bars in Thailand. 

Seems to me that you have very little idea of how viruses work.

 

You cannot pick and choose which venue can open and which cannot based on whether someone perceives them as being "dead" or not.  So they all have to close.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Misterwhisper said:

In Germany we call that a "Kraut".

Are you sure, according to what I know it is slang for a German and not really nice. Its what the English called the Germans and what you see in some of the older war movies that are less social sensitive as the new ones. Even in Holland we called Germans in the past Krauts or "moffen"  but neither word is nice.

 

Strange that you guys adapted it to mean a beer on the road.