Life in Thailand getting back to normal – but only if you are vaccinated

[Burma Bill]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

bar unvaccinated people from accessing certain services.

The "New Normal" as recently announced in Phnom Penh (Cambodia):-

I have my vaccination card.

 

Khuong Sreng, Governor of Phnom Penh, on the evening of October 5, issued instructions on the presentation of COVID-19 vaccination card or certificates each time when entering and leaving educational institutions, markets and business locations in Phnom Penh.

 

https://www.khmertimeskh.com/50947429/phnom-penh-moves-into-new-normal-with-mandatory-showing-of-vaccination-card-at-all-establishments/

[Bruno123]

Just now, ChomDo said:

This one is personal for me because I know a few people who are totally brainwashed just because they got into all these dark web sites claiming that the world is flat and vaccines kill you. Same happened to NBA star Kyrie Irving.

 

Sure "selfish" may sound a bit harsh but their decision not to get vaxxed based on some false conspiracy theories affects everyone and prolongs the process of getting life back to normal. It's only because of vaccinated people that we are slowly opening up again – in Europe pretty much back to normal now.

 

Just read in local news (not Thailand) that hospitals now only have non-vaxxed people that are then causing patients with other critical sicknesses to wait for treatment. That could be seen as selfish in my opinion. 

 

There are all kinds of theories out there. Some plausible and others complete nonsense; but I don't dismiss everyone who has a differing opinion and certainly won't insist that someone has to be vaccinated with what they might regard as an experimental substance.

You might be happy to take it, in order to get back to your normal. But what if your normal isn't their normal?

Vaccinated and then forced back into an office when it isn't necessary. People want quality of life; rather than to be totally controlled throughout their lives. The COVID-19 event has brought this to the fore.

More and more control; all under the guise of a pandemic. 

What are you going to do? Have booster shots every six months for the rest of your life? 

 

You will look for things that bolster your argument and they will look for things that bolster theirs. You'll both be right to a certain extent. 

The mistake you are making is doing the American 'dumbing down' technique of demonising anyone who doesn't agree with your point of view. 

Your use of the phrase 'anti-vaxxer' as an instance; lumping them all in the same 'flat earth' category. 

People are afraid. Some of the virus and some of the vaccine. That's normal. I won't call them selfish for being afraid.

 

 

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, cclub75 said:

 

But in anycase, this idea of "Covid pass" will never be widely used in Thailand... It's just impossible. From a practical point of view.

It's also a complete waste of time.

 

A friend of mine back in the UK who received 2 AstraZeneca shots a few months back has covid right now, said he felt pretty bad with it for about 4 or 5 days but he's on the mend now - he hopes.

 

Under a green pass style scheme he would be allowed to breathe covid all over everyone down the pub for several days before he became symptomatic which is likely how he caught it from one of his other friends who was also doing the same.

 

[Phoenix Rising]

2 hours ago, 2long said:

While expecting a backlash from the pro-vaxxers who won't listen that I am not an anti-vaxxer, but I would like to know....

 

- if 99% are vaccinated, how can the 1% be a danger to the others?

- if 98% are vaccinated, can the 2% be a danger to the others?

..until at some stage the smaller percentage will be a danger. But if, just if, that smaller percentage is something like 30%, then that's an unfair ratio of the majority effectively forcing their beliefs on the minority. 

I would assume that 80% of eligible adults are happy to be jabbed (as I have), so what's with people around the world being forced what they do with their bodies? It's similar to being forced to wear a seatbelt while driving; doing so only protects the individual, so why should others get involved?

Yes, I understand that a stupid person who gets sick or injured takes up hospital services, but that could be said for many other things in life, such as people with high-risk jobs.

Mandated vaccines have been around for many decades. Do you disagree with mandated vaccines in general or just this one?

And comparing not taking the Covid-19 vaccine to having a high risk job is not like comparing apples to oranges, more like comparing moon dust to fish farts - completely meaningless.

[smedly]

2 hours ago, 2long said:

While expecting a backlash from the pro-vaxxers who won't listen that I am not an anti-vaxxer, but I would like to know....

 

- if 99% are vaccinated, how can the 1% be a danger to the others?

- if 98% are vaccinated, can the 2% be a danger to the others?

..until at some stage the smaller percentage will be a danger. But if, just if, that smaller percentage is something like 30%, then that's an unfair ratio of the majority effectively forcing their beliefs on the minority. 

I would assume that 80% of eligible adults are happy to be jabbed (as I have), so what's with people around the world being forced what they do with their bodies? It's similar to being forced to wear a seatbelt while driving; doing so only protects the individual, so why should others get involved?

Yes, I understand that a stupid person who gets sick or injured takes up hospital services, but that could be said for many other things in life, such as people with high-risk jobs.

what you say makes a sensible point but it falls down on two 2 fronts

 

 - there are a lot more than 1% refusing to be vaccinated, more like 30% +

 

- we are seeing breakthrough in those vaccinated a long time ago

 

while this virus keeps circulating in the population there is a chance it could mutate into something even more deadly

 

So what is the answer ?

 

we know the vaccines do protect people from getting covid 19 (the disease caused by SARS CoV 2 Virus) and help stop it spreading

 

I think for now it is pretty obvious what people need to do based on current data and studies, will that be the same in 12 months time - nobody can answer that

 

Big Pharma are making a lot of money from this pandemic which is disturbing

[Dirk Z]

2 hours ago, 2long said:

While expecting a backlash from the pro-vaxxers who won't listen that I am not an anti-vaxxer, but I would like to know....

 

- if 99% are vaccinated, how can the 1% be a danger to the others?

- if 98% are vaccinated, can the 2% be a danger to the others?

..until at some stage the smaller percentage will be a danger. But if, just if, that smaller percentage is something like 30%, then that's an unfair ratio of the majority effectively forcing their beliefs on the minority. 

I would assume that 80% of eligible adults are happy to be jabbed (as I have), so what's with people around the world being forced what they do with their bodies? It's similar to being forced to wear a seatbelt while driving; doing so only protects the individual, so why should others get involved?

Yes, I understand that a stupid person who gets sick or injured takes up hospital services, but that could be said for many other things in life, such as people with high-risk jobs.

Being pro-vaccination is not a belief but based on a plethora of facts and evidence. If non-vaxers would be 1-2% nobody would spill a word, but the numbers like 20-30% are a serious threat in terms of them needing hospital beds. As they die away the threat becomes less, but until then they cause costs and are a considerable burden. You cannot really compare this with other diseases like from smoking etc, because the numbers - although still too many - are manageable, unlike a Covid outbreak. But over time according to Darwinian principles the problem will solve itself.

[smedly]

1 hour ago, ChomDo said:

This one is personal for me because I know a few people who are totally brainwashed just because they got into all these dark web sites claiming that the world is flat and vaccines kill you. Same happened to NBA star Kyrie Irving.

 

Sure "selfish" may sound a bit harsh but their decision not to get vaxxed based on some false conspiracy theories affects everyone and prolongs the process of getting life back to normal. It's only because of vaccinated people that we are slowly opening up again – in Europe pretty much back to normal now.

 

Just read in local news (not Thailand) that hospitals now only have non-vaxxed people that are then causing patients with other critical sicknesses to wait for treatment. That could be seen as selfish in my opinion. 

well said

[smedly]

1 hour ago, poskat said:

we have been told that with the 2 vax shots you can still get infected

That statement is true - "can" get infected 

 

but you have left out a lot of detail  

[smedly]

44 minutes ago, ukrules said:

It's also a complete waste of time.

 

A friend of mine back in the UK who received 2 AstraZeneca shots a few months back has covid right now, said he felt pretty bad with it for about 4 or 5 days but he's on the mend now - he hopes.

 

Under a green pass style scheme he would be allowed to breathe covid all over everyone down the pub for several days before he became symptomatic which is likely how he caught it from one of his other friends who was also doing the same.

 

people who are vaccinated and get covid 19 are advised to isolate

[starky]

3 hours ago, 2long said:

While expecting a backlash from the pro-vaxxers who won't listen that I am not an anti-vaxxer, but I would like to know....

 

- if 99% are vaccinated, how can the 1% be a danger to the others?

- if 98% are vaccinated, can the 2% be a danger to the others?

..until at some stage the smaller percentage will be a danger. But if, just if, that smaller percentage is something like 30%, then that's an unfair ratio of the majority effectively forcing their beliefs on the minority. 

I would assume that 80% of eligible adults are happy to be jabbed (as I have), so what's with people around the world being forced what they do with their bodies? It's similar to being forced to wear a seatbelt while driving; doing so only protects the individual, so why should others get involved?

Yes, I understand that a stupid person who gets sick or injured takes up hospital services, but that could be said for many other things in life, such as people with high-risk jobs.

Well how do we get to the high 90 percentile if everyone or even a lot of people think like that? So the choice is get vaxxed or don't. We are a point now where No one cares about the  particular reason certain individuals choose no jab. It maybe reasonable it may be full blown tin foil hat. If people choose however to go the no jab route they should be prepared to be potentially severely restricted in their movements in the post pandemic world for many years to come  or potentially forever. 

   No one is forcing the jab on anyone directly but indirectly it is crystal clear what the consequences will be.

Edited October 6, 2021 by starky

[300sd]

Now Merck is trying to get a covid pill passed by FDA. It is supposed to relieve the symptoms of covid if one is infected and mostly prevent serious infection and hospitalization. This is also what a vaccine does if one has a breakthrough infection. A treatment makes more sense to me since covid can not be eradicated. It is in the animal population. It's always going to be here. So does this mean we will always be required to get a vaccine booster every 6 months, or lose our freedoms? If this is the case then personally I'll take "dangerous freedom  over peaceful slavery". (Thomas Jefferson)

[starky]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

I'm double vaxxed with AZ and my life is nowhere near back to normal. 

 

I'm still walking around with a mask on 14 hours a day, it's difficult for me to visit friends around Thailand, I can't easily go to visit my family because the UK doesn't recognize Thai implemented vaccines, nightlife is completely dead and 4 hours ago I had a swab shoved about 3 inches up my nose, again.

 

Normal?

Ah there's the rub...I have many many friends throughout Sydney and Victoria who are fully vaxxed and yet are sloughed up and enjoy no more freedoms than the unvaccinated. This is not a reason not to be vaccinated of course but there must benefit, reward for those you are doing the right thing or whats the point? If there is no benefit freedom wise, and I'm playing devils advocate here many will continue to be hesitant...I would posit that many people care more about their ability to move freely than the possible harmful effects of catching covid.

  We are risk/reward monkeys who whilst for the most part can tend towards generosity and sympathy not many are truly  conscious of something unless they have personally experienced it, especially for the youth and the reckless. 

[ukrules]

34 minutes ago, 300sd said:

So does this mean we will always be required to get a vaccine booster every 6 months, or lose our freedoms?

I guess that depends where you are. There's no way they're going to be able to vaccinate everyone every 6 months here.

 

In Israel they're pushing ahead with the 6 month boosters full steam ahead - no shot inside the last 6 months and you're lumped in with the anti vaxers and can't even go to a restaurant.

 

I would say this is a transitory period and it won't last very long - anywhere. Better not to start it, all it will result in is a change of government wherever they do it and then a reversal.

 

 

[tomacht8]

It is obvious that freedom is currently being restricted for everyone, and not just in Thailand.

 

Conceptually, all countries around the world are working on the concept: those who have been vaccinated, those who have recovered and those who have been tested.

Documentation is mandatory for all 3 groups.

There is also the possibility of testing for those who are not vaccinated or who do not want to be vaccinated for whatever reason. 

 

For the unvaccinated, however, life becomes more complicated overall. Spontaneous visits to a discotheque, bar, restaurant, plane trip, hairdresser etc. are no longer easy. The unvaccinated person has to plan ahead and get a test before. The C19 tests cost money and are not valid for long.

 

I am not saying whether this is good or bad, but these are the developments as I see them in short to medium term. 

Edited October 6, 2021 by tomacht8

[starky]

15 minutes ago, ukrules said:

I guess that depends where you are. There's no way they're going to be able to vaccinate everyone every 6 months here.

 

In Israel they're pushing ahead with the 6 month boosters full steam ahead - no shot inside the last 6 months and you're lumped in with the anti vaxers and can't even go to a restaurant.

 

I would say this is a transitory period and it won't last very long - anywhere. Better not to start it, all it will result in is a change of government wherever they do it and then a reversal.

 

 

Yes Israel is pushing ahead with boosters whilst the vast majority on the undeveloped world has vaccination rates of less than 2%. So what's the real conspiracy? So rich nations thrive So the poor can die? If so all humanity deserves to be blanked

[ukrules]

3 minutes ago, starky said:

Yes Israel is pushing ahead with boosters whilst the vast majority on the undeveloped world has vaccination rates of less than 2%. So what's the real conspiracy? So rich nations thrive So the poor can die? If so all humanity deserves to be blanked

I think you're missing the point here. The vaccines in their current form are not doing the job they're supposed to.

 

We need new and better vaccines specifically built to counteract this delta strain of COVID.

Alternately a treatment that almost never fails, something like antibiotics but for covid will be required.

 

I'd say we will get both of them, in a way if COVID remains a problem for a few more years it will accelerate antiviral research a lot - which can only be very good for our long term future. Viruses do a lot more harm than people realise.

 

 

 

[Phoenix Rising]

1 hour ago, 300sd said:

Now Merck is trying to get a covid pill passed by FDA. It is supposed to relieve the symptoms of covid if one is infected and mostly prevent serious infection and hospitalization. This is also what a vaccine does if one has a breakthrough infection. A treatment makes more sense to me since covid can not be eradicated. It is in the animal population. It's always going to be here. So does this mean we will always be required to get a vaccine booster every 6 months, or lose our freedoms? If this is the case then personally I'll take "dangerous freedom  over peaceful slavery". (Thomas Jefferson)

Oh phu-leeze! Slavery.....seriously?? Wish there was a vaccine against hyperbole, you definitively need a shot or two.

[Mr Meeseeks]

3 hours ago, new2here said:

I agree.. IMHO, a combination of an overall lax attitude towards rules/law compliance by the general public plus a law enforcement mechanism that just hasn’t shown its ability to enforce laws uniformly, consistently or continually.

 

I think the ONE area where it could be implemented is for the purchase of domestic air travel.  The carriers could be forced to add a field in their booking platforms, for your covid pass to to be uploaded or linked, before a ticket can be bought and then again, shown at time of travel.  That part could be added to the TIMATIC profile and therefore would automatically be triggered when someone checks in. 

I flew domestic last week. Vaccine proof required at check-in. No vaxx no boarding pass. 

[starky]

39 minutes ago, ukrules said:

I think you're missing the point here. The vaccines in their current form are not doing the job they're supposed to.

 

We need new and better vaccines specifically built to counteract this delta strain of COVID.

Alternately a treatment that almost never fails, something like antibiotics but for covid will be required.

 

I'd say we will get both of them, in a way if COVID remains a problem for a few more years it will accelerate antiviral research a lot - which can only be very good for our long term future. Viruses do a lot more harm than people realise.

 

 

 

How does that relate to most of the undeveloped world having close to zero vaccine? Please elaborate 

[ukrules]

6 minutes ago, starky said:

How does that relate to most of the undeveloped world having close to zero vaccine? Please elaborate 

Effective antivirals would be in the form of tablets which can be widely distributed anywhere on earth, have a long shelf life and be administered by pharmacists directly to the patients.

 

If you can't see how that helps everyone then there's something wrong with you.

 

Don't remain so fixated on vaccines, they're not the only game in town.

[carlf]

4 hours ago, 2long said:

I would assume that 80% of eligible adults are happy to be jabbed (as I have), so what's with people around the world being forced what they do with their bodies? It's similar to being forced to wear a seatbelt while driving; doing so only protects the individual, so why should others get involved?

Yes, I understand that a stupid person who gets sick or injured takes up hospital services, but that could be said for many other things in life, such as people with high-risk jobs.

IMHO.... whilst I'd like to agree with you that one should be able to decide what they do with their bodies, I think that they need to also be willing to assume the consequences of this choice.  Looking at numerous countries, the non-vaccinated population has been filling up hospitals to the point where others with urgent needs haven't been able to find a bed.  I'd suggest that those that choose not to be vaccinated (assuming no medical reason for not getting vaxed) should be required to pay an additional insurance premium to help support the cost of their choice or accept that they will not be fully supported by their health insurance if they contract COVID.  BTW... I'd suggest the same thing for those who choose not to wear a seat belt, and wind up in the hospital.  I'm all for choice... as long as it doesn't harm others, and one assumes the (financial) consequences. 

[hioctane]

1 hour ago, carlf said:

IMHO.... whilst I'd like to agree with you that one should be able to decide what they do with their bodies, I think that they need to also be willing to assume the consequences of this choice.  Looking at numerous countries, the non-vaccinated population has been filling up hospitals to the point where others with urgent needs haven't been able to find a bed.  I'd suggest that those that choose not to be vaccinated (assuming no medical reason for not getting vaxed) should be required to pay an additional insurance premium to help support the cost of their choice or accept that they will not be fully supported by their health insurance if they contract COVID.  BTW... I'd suggest the same thing for those who choose not to wear a seat belt, and wind up in the hospital.  I'm all for choice... as long as it doesn't harm others, and one assumes the (financial) consequences. 

I totally agree about a higher insurance premium for the unvaccinated like a smokers premium. 

[BritManToo]

5 hours ago, new2here said:

Later, I wouldn’t be surprised to see some countries migrate to an online searchable database, accessible by authorized entities; like foreign immigration agencies. 

No countries have ever done this before for any reason.

Not even passports can be checked for validity outside the issuing country.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, carlf said:

I'd suggest that those that choose not to be vaccinated (assuming no medical reason for not getting vaxed) should be required to pay an additional insurance premium to help support the cost of their choice or accept that they will not be fully supported by their health insurance if they contract COVID.  BTW... I'd suggest the same thing for those who choose not to wear a seat belt, and wind up in the hospital. 

That's great, you want to stop people who overeat and/or under-exercise to be refused health care. After all, it's their personal choice to let themselves go. I'd be happy to go along with that, and let's not forget that same group are the ones that die from COVID.

Edited October 6, 2021 by BritManToo

[sucit]

40 minutes ago, hioctane said:

I totally agree about a higher insurance premium for the unvaccinated like a smokers premium. 

And just for discussion’s sake, what if it turned out that the vaccinated had a higher chance of having problems in the future? At that point, not for the premiums on the “wrong” choice any longer? 

[sucit]

4 hours ago, 300sd said:

Now Merck is trying to get a covid pill passed by FDA. It is supposed to relieve the symptoms of covid if one is infected and mostly prevent serious infection and hospitalization. This is also what a vaccine does if one has a breakthrough infection. A treatment makes more sense to me since covid can not be eradicated. It is in the animal population. It's always going to be here. So does this mean we will always be required to get a vaccine booster every 6 months, or lose our freedoms? If this is the case then personally I'll take "dangerous freedom  over peaceful slavery". (Thomas Jefferson)

Wow it is refreshing to see there are people with sense still around. 
 

I think most people deserve to lose their rights, and I would not sulk for a minute at the prospect. You give in and blindly follow governments and corporations, follow the masses without a second thought, and also try to take away choices from your fellow citizens about their own health, you deserve nothing. You are a pitiful human being if you feel that way. 

Edited October 6, 2021 by sucit

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, Bruno123 said:

 

There are all kinds of theories out there. Some plausible and others complete nonsense; but I don't dismiss everyone who has a differing opinion and certainly won't insist that someone has to be vaccinated with what they might regard as an experimental substance.

You might be happy to take it, in order to get back to your normal. But what if your normal isn't their normal?

Vaccinated and then forced back into an office when it isn't necessary. People want quality of life; rather than to be totally controlled throughout their lives. The COVID-19 event has brought this to the fore.

More and more control; all under the guise of a pandemic. 

What are you going to do? Have booster shots every six months for the rest of your life? 

 

You will look for things that bolster your argument and they will look for things that bolster theirs. You'll both be right to a certain extent. 

The mistake you are making is doing the American 'dumbing down' technique of demonising anyone who doesn't agree with your point of view. 

Your use of the phrase 'anti-vaxxer' as an instance; lumping them all in the same 'flat earth' category. 

People are afraid. Some of the virus and some of the vaccine. That's normal. I won't call them selfish for being afraid.

 

 

The evidence is massively in favor of vaccinations. The State of Pennsylvania recently released data that showed that 97% of all covid deaths occur among the unvacccinated. And yes it is selfish not to get vaccinated. In those areas where the largest percentage of people refuse to be vaccinated, hospital ICU's are being overstressed by these selfish people. Critical care is being rationed. In other words, triage is now the rule of the day in many states.  

[brewsterbudgen]

A few gyms are imposing their own rules about who can use their facilities. That is all. There is nothing official about vaccinations and access to facilities.

[adexgh]

We are living in a clown world really. Seeing all the vaccinated people using the mask everywhere and living in fear. Brainwashed at best, comply and obey.

 

[new2here]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

No countries have ever done this before for any reason.

Not even passports can be checked for validity outside the issuing country.

I agree it’s uncharted territory… but.. my opinion only, is that i wouldn’t be surprised if that where it ended up going.

 

To me, the days of relying on a paper document are limited… like far powered cars, paper will remain for quite a lot longer.. but… i do think - and all gain that’s my opinion - that there will be some kind of large scale movement to go “e-verify” like… it will be peppered with security and private concerns (legitimate concerns IMHO) but in the end, that’s where i think we will end up with regards to being able to prove one’s vaccination status.