THE WEEK THAT WAS “My Home is My Castle” - but killing intruders can lead to jail

[kennw]

9 hours ago, bunnydrops said:

The wife was out, the wife's boyfriend finds that his 300000 is gone after being with her, he doesn't climb a wall but came to the front door wanting his money back. I find it funny that everyone is swallowing this one sided story told by the only one standing,

This theory is quite a possibility, the Thai guy said "money money" according to the Swiss, maybe he meant "my money that the woman took" Swiss mistakenly thought he was being robbed thus the fight. The woman is central to this case. 

[thailand49]

"  FAIR "   THAT IS WHAT WORRIES ME AS AN EXPAT.  APPLY THE THAI LAW THAT WOULD EQUAL NO EVIDENCE CASE CLOSE.

 

PERSONALLY, the way they apply the law here with foreigners I'm in the camp like my brother and friends here if something like this happens first thing chop his ass up take him to a large body of water afar and dump him.  Even in Thailand no one even his family is going to miss the traitor trash! ????  trash like this go missing everyday dime a dozen just ask the many ladies with kids working the bars and GoGo's!

[Mayhem11]

I am fascinated by the Neanderthals who respond to this stuff.

[Ginner]

14 hours ago, BritManToo said:

It would depend on the nationality of the householder.

And if the intruder was banging the householders wife.

The thing they forgot to mention about the incidents in the US and the UK is those incidents were fully investigated over weeks /months and EVERY little bit of evidence was looked at again and again. As for the 300,000 the police searched the Swiss guys home, but I didn't see and mention as to if they had made enquiries regarding who gave and where he got the money from.

If the money was still on him when the cops arrived?????????????????

[bunnydrops]

9 hours ago, connda said:

“My Home is My Castle” - but killing intruders can lead to jail

True in the US, at least in the areas of the country I lived in. 

Here in Thailand - Your Home Is Your Death-Trap

Well - at least if you are a victim of an armed home invasion.  If an armed Thai breaches the perimeter of your property and forces their way into your home - and you are a farang? 
Either:
1.  The armed assailant kills you; or
2. The state jails or kills you should you fight back  and best your attacker.
And the RTP will assure the public that "Justice Will Be Found."
And in even more absurd cases the state will rule that you in fact robbed the arm home invaded after defending yourself with weaponless hands based only on allegations of other Thai family members of the armed home invader. 

Why?  There's rules for Thais and rules for the evil, "rich" national security risks which all farang are all assumed to be.  I mean, we report to the Thai police just like Thai prison parolees.  With Thais though - the parole eventually end.  With farang expats? - it never ends.  We are assumed to be a danger and if we are attacked in our own homes and we fight back??? "Well see - farangs are a security risk and a danger to Thai!"

Bottom line???  State Sanctioned Open Season on Farang Expats In Their Own Homes (If you choose to protect your life, limb, family, and property - then - Do not pass Go, Do not collect $200 - Go straight to jail)

I find what transpired this week to be one of the most disturbing events that I've encounter since I moved here.  The ramifications for all foreign expat, especially farang expats who are all assumed to be "rich", are immense in that we may legally be disallowed from defending our own lives in our own homes. 

Many years ago just north of Korat there was a string if armed robbery of farang homes. The polices called for a meeting of the local farang population and during the meeting it was suggested that they buy guns. The police said that if they ever shot someone during a robbery, it would be bestto  say it was the Thai wife that did the shooting and not the farang. 

[Stargeezr]

Rooster, thanks again for keeping us up with the news.

  I hope that Thailand does re open for Tourists by December, and most of the rules and restrictions are

dropped. I will keep waiting for your news up dates.  Thanks.

Geezer

[KonaRain]

On Hawaii, where I live on a cold mountain, by the way, the Chief of the Airport fire station in Kona, explained to me after my neighbor was breaking in my house that he helped build and scaring me, that he has to be inside the door to be shot! Big guy carrying a club or machete! He told me to drag him inside the door if shot outside, but that was before OJ's trial showed that blood splatter patterns mean something: (you better tell the truth!) Aloha

[joecoolfrog]

16 hours ago, StevieAus said:

The problem with this “using reasonable force” argument and there was similar public outrage in Australian many years ago, after a publican was charged after killing someone breaking into his premises during the night, is that it’s ok to be wise after the event.

Its ok in the cool of the day, discussing it at the police station or court room after the event, but when you are awoken by an intruder in your bedroom where it’s dark, how do you known what weapon they may have and therefore what reasonable force to use ?

Of course if you are killed it all becomes irrelevant anyway, for you that is.

I think you make a very valid point , one would hope that ( sane ) judges and juries factor it into their deliberations.

I think its more dangerous when legislation is more rigid , there have been instances ( eg wanabee burglar who never entered house is shot in the back running away from the garden) where a clear case of murder was excused.

[Doctor Tom]

16 hours ago, TheFishman1 said:

The facts are very simple the time Man and heard the foreigners house with a gun thank God the foreign guy got the gun away he tied them up and called the police in my book for foreign guys a hero TIT

all of that is speculation at this point. 

[StevieAus]

4 hours ago, KonaRain said:

On Hawaii, where I live on a cold mountain, by the way, the Chief of the Airport fire station in Kona, explained to me after my neighbor was breaking in my house that he helped build and scaring me, that he has to be inside the door to be shot! Big guy carrying a club or machete! He told me to drag him inside the door if shot outside, but that was before OJ's trial showed that blood splatter patterns mean something: (you better tell the truth!) Aloha

This is Thailand not Hawaii different laws and culture.

The fire chief should stick to putting out fires not giving advice on legal matters.

[fredwiggy]

21 hours ago, ezzra said:

Unlike in the US where almost everyone is packing and shooting an intruder is legal in many states, here in Thailand a foreigner having a gun AND shooting a local, be it an intruder or not, is a big deal, wouldn't wanna be in his shoes right now big headaches and lot of express to defend himself, hopefully cool heads will prevail and the case will be settled according to the local laws and the circumstances...

18 million concealed licenses out of over 350 million is far from everyone is packing. Only about 40% of households have gun ownership. The foreigner didn't shoot or own this gun. The intruder came with it and was disarmed after it went off. Thailand actually mirrors the US with gun violence by the way, and it's a far smaller country.

Edited October 10, 2021 by fredwiggy

[jacko45k]

19 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

Having lived in the Commonwealth of Kentucky and held a Concealed Deadly Weapon License, it was my understanding that the use of deadly force was only warranted in defense of life

Laws for Thailand are made in Kentucky? Get back to cooking fried chicken!????

Edited October 11, 2021 by jacko45k

[wwest5829]

52 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Laws for Thailand are made in Kentucky? Get back to cooking fried chicken!????

Did I state this somewhere? Thought the discussion was allowing for a free discourse of our understanding of the right of self defense in the use of deadly force. As to the case at hand, not enough is known in order to make an informed opinion.

[nobodysfriend]

8 hours ago, bunnydrops said:

The polices called for a meeting of the local farang population and during the meeting it was suggested that they buy guns.

Farangs are not legally allowed to own guns in Thailand .

Police should know that .

[chrissables]

20 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

If the swiss guy would have had one or more guardian dogs , nothing would have happened to him ...

And there are still the dog haters who ask what a dog is good for ...

Barbeque 

[nobodysfriend]

2 minutes ago, chrissables said:

Barbeque 

You eat dogs ?

[chrissables]

3 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

You eat dogs ?

No, i like dogs, as long as they controlled by their owners. Not allowed to <deleted> or run in public places, chasing motorbikes, push bikes or the general public.

[khunjeff]

On 10/9/2021 at 9:35 PM, rooster59 said:

Predictable outrage followed but 300 baht had already been agreed ages ago and such charges are standard practice throughout the world, usually incorporated into airfares. 

"Such charges" are not standard practice in other countries. You are confusing tourist fees/taxes (which are charged to foreigners and go to the government) with Passenger Service Charges (which are charged to all air travelers and are used for the upkeep and operation of the airport). Different things.

 

On 10/9/2021 at 9:35 PM, rooster59 said:

Several decades ago Thais used to have to pay 1,000 baht at the airport when leaving the country then a standard departure tax of 500 baht was levied. 

The departure tax on Thai travelers was a real tax; the 500 baht (now 700) is an airport fee. Again, you are conflating two totally different types of levies.

[bunnydrops]

12 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

Farangs are not legally allowed to own guns in Thailand .

Police should know that .

As I said they made the point of saying to be sure the Thai wife is said to be the one that did the shooting.

[timberpond]

So in Thailand is: He come in kill you he go to jail. He come in you kill him you go to jail.

Either way, one should pray hard nobody jump over your fence.

[Marpa47]

Rooster Said:   “In the United States this has morphed into what is known as the “Castle Doctrine” and a related issue known as “stand your ground”.

 

I have a recent article here from the “Kansas City Star” that might be of interest:

 

Missouri man who killed two during dispute over firewood won’t be charged. Here’s why

Mike Stunson

Thu, October 14, 2021, 2:16 PM·3 min read

 

 

 

 

A Missouri man who killed two people following a dispute that began over firewood will not be charged, a grand jury decided Wednesday.

The 22-year-old shooter, whose name was not publicly disclosed, shot and killed Kalob Lawson, 34, and Jonathan Lutz, 44, in February when one of the men approached him with a gun, according to Platte County Prosecuting Attorney Eric Zahnd.

Because of Missouri’s stand your ground law, the shooter was justified in his actions, Zahnd said. The controversial law was enacted in 2017 and was later amended to include acts of self defense.

“Missouri’s ‘stand your ground’ law means people do not have to retreat before using force to defend themselves if they are in a place they have a right to be,” Zahnd said in a news release. “And while people can never use deadly force merely to protect property, they can use deadly force if they reasonably believe deadly force is necessary to protect themselves against death or serious physical injury.”

The shooting occurred Feb. 10 when Lawson and Lutz were paid $200 to deliver firewood to the 22-year-old man’s father. The son noticed his father was shorted firewood, so he followed the two in his vehicle, the prosecuting attorney said.

When the son caught up to Lawson and Lutz on Highway 9, the drivers in the two vehicles both pulled over. A witness observed the 22-year-old stepping out of his vehicle and saying, “Are you just going to rob my dad?” according to Zahnd.

Lutz and Lawson, the latter of whom was armed with a handgun, then walked toward the 22-year-old. Lawson pointed his gun at the man before he grabbed his own firearm.

The shooter fired multiple times, hitting Lawson in the chest and face and Lutz in the abdomen and shoulder, according to the prosecuting attorney. Lawson, of Kimberling City, died at the scene and Lutz, of Kansas City, died at a hospital.

The 22-year-old man left the scene before calling 911 at his home. He then voluntarily surrendered to sheriff’s deputies, but a grand jury declined to indict him Wednesday.

Kyle Lawson, Kalob’s brother, told WDAF the situation does not make sense to him and that he is not coping well with the grand jury’s decision.

“None of that makes sense and it’s not right. This kid should not walk away free,” Kyle Lawson said.

“I don’t care if my brother didn’t give them any wood or shorted them wood or whatever he did. You don’t get to chase him down with a gun and take justice into your own hands and say ‘Well I felt threatened, so I killed him,’” he added.

Relatives for Lawson and Lutz told KCTV they are speaking with an attorney involving the case. “It’s ridiculous,” said David Lawson, Kalob’s father.

Zahnd called the case “tragic” but noted the grand jury did not find a crime was committed.

Everytown for Gun Safety, an organization in opposition of stand your ground legislation, says 29 states have the laws in effect. The organization states the laws have led to an additional 150 fatal shootings each month in the United States.

“Stand Your Ground laws give people a license to kill, allowing those who shoot others to obtain immunity, even if they started the confrontation and even when they can safely de-escalate the situation by walking away,” Everytown states.