Phuket immigration very strict on retirement extension requirements

[Badrabbit]

No mention  of the required 3 million insurance or doest that not come into effect untill Sept 2022?

[skatewash]

11 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

No mention  of the required 3 million insurance or doest that not come into effect untill Sept 2022?

Not a requirement for getting an extension of stay based on a Non-O visa, only Non-OA visas.

[Badrabbit]

26 minutes ago, skatewash said:

Not a requirement for getting an extension of stay based on a Non-O visa, only Non-OA visas.

Could you explain the difference between the two please, Insurance man told me I would need 3 million insurance which would include Covid cover in order to renew my Retirement Extension after the 1st Sept 2022.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Badrabbit

[skatewash]

8 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

Could you explain the difference between the two please, Insurance man told me I would need 3 million insurance which would include Covid over in order to renew my Retirement Extension after the 1st Sept 2022.

You need to determine your latest visa.  Visas are typically acquired at Royal Thai embassies or consulates outside of Thailand.  They are typically pasted into your passport and take up an entire page.  For purpose of your question there are two varieties of visa that are of interest.  One is an Non-OA and the other is a Non-O.  The A in Non-OA is significant because to this visa attaches the Thai Immigration imposed health insurance mandate.  No such mandate attaches to the Non-O visa.  (Note that if you have had the Non-OA visa for a long time, say pre-2018 it's possible that the health insurance mandate doesn't apply to you, at least in some immigration offices like the one in Phuket.)

 

Medical Insurance:

From October 2020 an medical insurance is required for every retirement extension if it is based on a original Non-OA visa (Issued at the Thai Embassy in your home country) following the criteria explained below than it has to be shown and included in the extension based on retirement.
– If the Non-OA visa from your home country is issued In or BEFORE 2017 then the health insurance is NOT required for your extension.
– If the Non-OA visa from your home country is issued in 2018 or later but the last entry date is before 1 October 2019 then the health insurance is NOT required for your extension.
– If the Non-OA visa from your home country is issued in 2018 or later but the last entry date is AFTER 1 October 2019 then the health insurance is IS required for your extension.
Please use the following link https://longstay.tgia.org  to get more information about the required health insurance or click here to see the list of the accepted health insurance companies as of August 2020.
People who required the health insurance and who are not able to get the health insurance due to their age can discuss this with the officers in charge during their application in order to receive an exemption if necessary.
If the retirement extension is based on a (single entry) Non-O visa or from a conversion from Non-B or based on marriage etc then the health insurance is NOT required for the extension based retirement application.
Please contact the Immigration volunteers to check your situation and to see if you need the health insurance in case it is not clear for you. 

 

-- http://piv-phuket.com/long-stay-extensions/retirement/

You may have received extensions of stay based on your latest visa.  If those extensions of stay were based on a Non-O visa you don't have to meet the health insurance mandate.  If they are instead based on a Non-OA visa then you do.

 

[Badrabbit]

20 minutes ago, skatewash said:

You need to determine your latest visa.  Visas are typically acquired at Royal Thai embassies or consulates outside of Thailand.  They are typically pasted into your passport and take up an entire page.  For purpose of your question there are two varieties of visa that are of interest.  One is an Non-OA and the other is a Non-O.  The A in Non-OA is significant because to this visa attaches the Thai Immigration imposed health insurance mandate.  No such mandate attaches to the Non-O visa.  (Note that if you have had the Non-OA visa for a long time, say pre-2018 it's possible that the health insurance mandate doesn't apply to you, at least in some immigration offices like the one in Phuket.)

 

Medical Insurance:

From October 2020 an medical insurance is required for every retirement extension if it is based on a original Non-OA visa (Issued at the Thai Embassy in your home country) following the criteria explained below than it has to be shown and included in the extension based on retirement.
– If the Non-OA visa from your home country is issued In or BEFORE 2017 then the health insurance is NOT required for your extension.
– If the Non-OA visa from your home country is issued in 2018 or later but the last entry date is before 1 October 2019 then the health insurance is NOT required for your extension.
– If the Non-OA visa from your home country is issued in 2018 or later but the last entry date is AFTER 1 October 2019 then the health insurance is IS required for your extension.
Please use the following link https://longstay.tgia.org  to get more information about the required health insurance or click here to see the list of the accepted health insurance companies as of August 2020.
People who required the health insurance and who are not able to get the health insurance due to their age can discuss this with the officers in charge during their application in order to receive an exemption if necessary.
If the retirement extension is based on a (single entry) Non-O visa or from a conversion from Non-B or based on marriage etc then the health insurance is NOT required for the extension based retirement application.
Please contact the Immigration volunteers to check your situation and to see if you need the health insurance in case it is not clear for you. 

 

-- http://piv-phuket.com/long-stay-extensions/retirement/

You may have received extensions of stay based on your latest visa.  If those extensions of stay were based on a Non-O visa you don't have to meet the health insurance mandate.  If they are instead based on a Non-OA visa then you do.

 

I came here in 2009 on a non O, I converted that to the retirement and have had this untill this day, I'm assuming I don't need to show insurance which wouldn't be a problem as I do have it, maybe the insurance man assumed I came here on a non OA.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Badrabbit

[xylophone]

3 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

I have no idea what all that 8 page fuss was about.  Today take off from my home Kata 08.55, Chalong Kbank at 09.10, ask letter and 12 month statement, 200 baht extra plus letter 100 baht. On my way 09.30. Arrive Imm 09.50. I hade all my paperwork printed out. Application form with photo. Copy each passport page. Copy hand map and address photo. Copy each bank book page (which the bank stamped). Straight outside desk the 2 young students carefully checked everything under supervision IO. Get Q number 11.  Inside 10.05. IO very casual look papers and given I had at least 800K the entire year there were no calcs. Bit if a wait at the data ladies station. Out door 10.25. Home Kata 10.50. 2 hours door to door. All the Imm staff could not have been more pleasant.  

 

As an aside I was surprised that Room 103 was processing younger folks with kids. I expected a bit of a wait but they were processed fast. 

Luck of the draw I suppose LiK, because I have done all of that before and have had no end of hassle (one time being asked for a bribe, and the other being told that my 400 K in the bank for more than one year, and monthly overseas income of approximately 45K per month, plus all the correct paperwork, was not sufficient – which it is – and that the full amount of 800 K should be in the bank the next year).

 

Others have had similar incidents, so what works for one obviously doesn't work for all, hence the number of pages, and also the number of pages from a supercilious poster.

Edited October 28, 2021 by xylophone

[skatewash]

36 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

I came here in 2009 on a non O, I converted that to the retirement and have had this untill this day, I'm assuming I don't need to show insurance which wouldn't be a problem as I do have it, maybe the insurance man assumed I came here on a non OA.

If you started out on a non-O (not non-OA) in 2009 and have been on retirement extensions since that point then as I understand it you do not have to meet the non-OA health insurance mandate.  If your insurance agent has told you otherwise I would be suspicious of there being a misunderstanding of what your situation is.  There's also the possibility that to a man with a hammer everything looks like a nail. ????

[JetsetBkk]

2 hours ago, skatewash said:

(Note that if you have had the Non-OA visa for a long time, say pre-2018 it's possible that the health insurance mandate doesn't apply to you, at least in some immigration offices like the one in Phuket.)

Doesn't apply to me, in Phuket.

 

2 hours ago, Badrabbit said:

maybe the insurance man assumed I came here on a non OA

Or maybe he just wanted a bit of extra business. 

 

[LivinginKata]

3 hours ago, xylophone said:

Luck of the draw I suppose LiK, because I have done all of that before and have had no end of hassle (one time being asked for a bribe, and the other being told that my 400 K in the bank for more than one year, and monthly overseas income of approximately 45K per month, plus all the correct paperwork, was not sufficient – which it is – and that the full amount of 800 K should be in the bank the next year).

 

Others have had similar incidents, so what works for one obviously doesn't work for all, hence the number of pages, and also the number of pages from a supercilious poster.

Luck of the draw ???  Sure I have had some difficult IOs over the last 25 years. But ever since move down to room 103 it has always been a pleasure these past 5 ish years.  

[JetsetBkk]

16 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

Luck of the draw ???  Sure I have had some difficult IOs over the last 25 years. But ever since move down to room 103 it has always been a pleasure these past 5 ish years.  

Agreed. I did my 90-day report today. The "joker" guy, usually outside room 103, was over to the right where they've added a "Waiting Area"(?) or similarly named building and car park - quite impressive!

 

I was in and out in a couple of minutes, no queue, nobody behind me, and on the way out I noticed another enlarged car park.

I wonder who paid for it all? ????

[xylophone]

17 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

Luck of the draw ???  Sure I have had some difficult IOs over the last 25 years. But ever since move down to room 103 it has always been a pleasure these past 5 ish years.  

Have you ever been asked for a bribe though LiK?? 

 

Although having said that, and in reference to your quote about the last five years or so, it was upstairs where the request for a bribe took place, so maybe things did change/have changed, although it was downstairs when the grumpy I/O told me to get all of the money in the bank rather than having 50% of it in there, and 50% from overseas income/transactions.

 

Never mind, it's all water under the bridge as the saying goes, however I'm sure there will be other posts and threads about expats having difficulty with I/Os because there's been scores of them, if not many more, on this forum, its previous forum and others around the place.
 

[xylophone]

5 minutes ago, JetsetBkk said:

Agreed. I did my 90-day report today. The "joker" guy, usually outside room 103, was over to the right where they've added a "Waiting Area"(?) or similarly named building and car park - quite impressive!

 

I was in and out in a couple of minutes, no queue, nobody behind me, and on the way out I noticed another enlarged car park.

I wonder who paid for it all? ????

I always do my 90 day report in Patong, because it's very easy and only a short drive away from my apartment, and I've never had a problem there, in and out within a couple of minutes, and they are very helpful because it was there that one of them said that if I didn't have enough money in the bank to qualify for the 800k, then I was to go and see him and he would sort it for me.

 

Have to say that the service is brilliant there.

[LivinginKata]

56 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Have you ever been asked for a bribe though LiK?? 

 

Couple times of my early days 25 years ago I was asked, and for big bucks like 50 K baht. i refused and my passport thrown over desk. Another time guy IO insisted in delivering my passport my Patong home. I dodged and collected from Phuket office, he was most displeased, Never in the past 20 years. From what I have seen easy marks will pay. Thats Ok if paperwork not correct.

[JetsetBkk]

On 10/28/2021 at 6:33 PM, xylophone said:

Have you ever been asked for a bribe though LiK?? 

I once asked for two Certificates of Residence - one for the Pickup license renewal and one for the Motor-cy license renewal. I didn't realise at the time I could simply photocopy the first certificate and give the Transport Office people the original and copy for the two licenses.

 

When the Immigration IO asked for 600 baht, I replied that I thought they were free. The IO said, in a very loud voice, "No! First one free, second one 300 baht!"  Chicken-little me paid up, of course.  ???? 

 

[huuwi]

went in on monday at 2.15pm, done in 20 min. funny enough, the outside guy handed me 3 forms for next year and i ask him if he where sure there will be no changes. he smiled. pick up passport the next day. done for another year.

[beechbum]

4 hours ago, huuwi said:

went in on monday at 2.15pm, done in 20 min. funny enough, the outside guy handed me 3 forms for next year and i ask him if he where sure there will be no changes. he smiled. pick up passport the next day. done for another year.

He's a bit of a card that fella but always been very helpful to me.

[JetsetBkk]

10 hours ago, beechbum said:

14 hours ago, huuwi said:

went in on monday at 2.15pm, done in 20 min. funny enough, the outside guy handed me 3 forms for next year and i ask him if he where sure there will be no changes. he smiled. pick up passport the next day. done for another year.

He's a bit of a card that fella but always been very helpful to me.

I call him the "joker guy". He handed me back the health insurance certificates two years running when I did my O-A extensions. Yes, it took me that long to discover I didn't need it. 

[Seeall]

On 10/16/2021 at 1:22 PM, skatewash said:

The requirements for getting a retirement extension of stay at Phuket Immigration are very strictly enforced.  So I make my life easier by finding out what the requirements are and following them strictly.  I find it very helpful to use the website set up by the Phuket Immigration Volunteers that contains very good information about what is required in order to get all sorts of extensions of stay including the retirement extension.

http://piv-phuket.com/long-stay-extensions/retirement/

 

For years Phuket Immigration has required two (2) documents from your Thai bank.  One is the standard letter that shows you are the owner of a bank account, details of the account, and the balance on the date the letter is written.  The second is a signed/stamped bank account statement for twelve (12) months.  I forget how much these two documents cost but is in the range of 200-300 baht depending on the Thai bank involved.  Note that some banks (notably, Bangkok Bank) cannot produce a 12-month bank statement on the spot but have to send the request to Bangkok Bank headquarters and it can take a week to actually receive that 12-month bank statement due to this.  So knowing this I try to apply for my retirement extension 45 days before my permission to stay expires.  Why wouldn't you want to do this earlier rather than later?  You have time on your side if there are any problems.

These are the requirements (as can be confirmed by reading the earlier link).  However, I usually try to understand the reason these are the requirements.  So what follows is my understanding of why we are asked to do what we are asked to do when proving that we have 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account for 12 months. 

The standard bank letter establishes that the bank account exists, is in our name only, and that we are the owner of it.  The 12-month bank statement establishes that we have complied with the minimum balance requirements.  The minimum balance requirement for a banked lump sum method are as follows:

• At least 800k in the bank account for two (2) months prior to application for extension
• At least 800k in the bank account for three (3) months after application for extension
• At least 400k in the bank account for the rest of the year.

So, the 12-month bank statement is the means by which an immigration officer can determine if you followed these requirements.  But why is a bank signed/stamped bank statement required rather than just copies of pages in your bank account passbook?  I mean, aren't they the same?  Actually they are only the same if you have updated your bank passbook on a regular basis.  If you haven't then it is possible to get Combined Transactions in your passbook.  Combined transactions include numerous transactions that occurred without your passbook being updated.  The Combined transaction entry shows the net effect of all those undocumented transactions on your bank balance.  It is impossible to determine from this entry whether your bank balance dipped below the minimum balance requirements.  That is why they insist on a 12-month bank statement. 

Even then, they often want to see your bank passbook.  Sometimes, often actually, they will want to see signed copies of your passbook covering the last 12 months.  Why is this?  When you are trying to assess the validity of evidence you look at multiple sources for that evidence.  The standard bank letter says the balance on the date the letter was issued was such and such.  Does the bank statement say the same thing?  Does the bank passbook say the same thing?  The bank statement says that the balance never dipped below the minimum balances.  Does the bank book confirm that? 

I look at this process as getting the immigration officer to a place where he or she has a warm and fuzzy feeling that the evidence you present is valid.  Could it all be faked?  Of course.  There is nothing that can't be faked (including passports and true love).  But how difficult, how much work is it, to fake three separate things:  signed/stamped bank letter, signed/stamped bank statement, bank passbook? 

So, what happened to your friend?  I suspect he didn't bother to check the requirements for the retirement extension at the Phuket Immigration Volunteer's site.  I suspect he didn't notice that a 12-month bank statement is a requirement for Phuket Immigration retirement extensions (and has been for at least a few years).  I suspect that had he gone back to his Thai bank and obtained the 12-month bank statement he was supposed to have all along (it's one of the requirements) he might have gotten his extension approved.

You do NOT have to bring money into Thailand according to the rules for the monthly deposit method (65,000 baht/month every month), IF you are doing the lump-sum banked money method (800,000 baht in the account, subject to minimum balance requirements).  He would have known that if he had familiarized himself with the requirements.  Did he get a garbled, confusing, explanation from the immigration officers as to why he was being refused an extension?  Probably.  That's why your understanding of the process needs to be as good as an immigration officer, so you can comprehend what in the world they are trying to tell you.  So you can understand what the issues are, what their concerns are.

Also, it needs to be said that immigration officers can ask you any question they want to inform their assessment of whether you are going to get a retirement extension or not.  For example if your bank balances meet all the minimum balance requirements it's still in their investigative purview to ask questions like what are you living on?  Where does it come from?  Do you work in Thailand?  Sometimes they will ask to see a bank account that you are not using to meet the requirement for the extension to see what you are living on.  For example, my account for immigration purpose shows very little activity.  The money just sits there, earning interest every month.  I rarely put money in, I rarely take money out.  If that's all I show to the immigration officer it could raise the question about what I am living on.  For that, I have another account that shows money being transferred in on an irregular basis with international labeling.  Money being withdrawn on an irregular basis to pay my day to day expenses.  Money being debited by my internet provider, electricity provider, etc.  I usually will make copies of that bank passbook in case they want to see that.

To paraphrase Jerry McGuire, you need to help the immigration officers help you.  It's in your interest.  The easier their job is the easier it is for me to get what I want, a retirement extension.

Or you can pay 22,000 baht to an agent and they can do what you couldn't do.  The agent likes this and the immigration officers like this as they get part of that 22,000 baht.  It's a win-win situation.  Except I wouldn't be happy paying 22,000 for something that I know should cost exactly 1,900.  But it's Thailand, so up to you. ????

A very well written and thoughtful writeup (If only journos could write like that) may I say/warn of one thing, I notice lately half of news/websites, some major legal firms in fact, say the 800k needs to be in bank 3 months before extension...  when it changed a couple of years ago to 2!!!

To me thats  irresponsible fake news.  Its hard enough following all these rules /changes (especially to newbies) without this kink of "news of law" neglect...  imagine if you had a legal need of multimillion proportions...  would you engage these "oppsie"  companies?

Thanks all..

[KarenBravo]

1 hour ago, Seeall said:

A very well written and thoughtful writeup (If only journos could write like that) may I say/warn of one thing, I notice lately half of news/websites, some major legal firms in fact, say the 800k needs to be in bank 3 months before extension...  when it changed a couple of years ago to 2!!!

To me thats  irresponsible fake news.  Its hard enough following all these rules /changes (especially to newbies) without this kink of "news of law" neglect...  imagine if you had a legal need of multimillion proportions...  would you engage these "oppsie"  companies?

Thanks all..

I agree with you 100%, but practically speaking, those that use the 800k in the bank method, according to most of the posts here, just leave it in the bank account and forget about it. The 800k is in the bank for 12 months of the year, so the seasoning period before extension doesn't affect these people.

[LivinginKata]

1 hour ago, KarenBravo said:

I agree with you 100%, but practically speaking, those that use the 800k in the bank method, according to most of the posts here, just leave it in the bank account and forget about it. The 800k is in the bank for 12 months of the year, so the seasoning period before extension doesn't affect these people.

 It's not just the seasoning. Also that 400k must remain for 7 months of the year.  Last renewal I had reduced to 400k and the officer made a big deal of carefully checking dates and amounts. Took him a while he was irritated. This year I had left 800k all year. Officer happy no work for him and he hardly checked my application paperwork.

Edited November 11, 2021 by LivinginKata