Thai Airways posts earnings after debt restructuring, assets sale

[thaibook]

5 hours ago, steven100 said:

oh TG .....   you keep telling porkies .....   how the heck could they possibly have made 60 billion even with an asset sale.   what a load of hog wash .

 

I didn't read anywhere about a purchase of aircraft by anyone  ?

who the heck is buying any planes in these uncertain times  ?

did they sell some land and/or offices somewhere   ?

You should read the article.  The assets sold were not material assets but imaginary ones.

 

60 billion baht from the debt restructuring process, which comprises “adjustments to defaulted interest, derecognition, and adjustment of financial liabilities.”

 

essentially TG decided that the interest iwes on debts should be charged at a lower interest rate (adjustment to defaulted interest), that debts to potential passengers who had their flights cancelled are no longer recognised as debts (so you will never be refunded) (dereognition), and that the money it owes the government has been reduced in exchange for a lower payment to supervising individuals (adjustment of financial liabilities).  It should be obvious why gobbledegook must be used to hide what was actually done.  Of course these machinations are with a purpose.  You canbet that the TG directors will receive a bonus for making a profit irrespective of the revenues and cash-flow.

 

[SomchaiCNX]

Did somebody from the TAT office move to THAI :).

[Enzian]

I just hope my bank in the country doesn't do their accounting this way.

[Uroller]

Just more proof that you can do anything with numbers and they don’t mean anything????????????

[roquefort]

To adapt a quote from Churchill - There are lies, damn lies..............and Thai Airways' accounts.

 

I wonder if they've depreciated the dozens of planes you see parked on the tarmac adjacent to the terminal when you fly in to Suvharnabumi. They've been there so long the paint on the fuselage has faded.

[BusyB]

7 hours ago, itsari said:

What appears to be accounting acrobatics 

 

Aerobatics ????

[Nobbie49]

As audited by Somchai & Somsak

[GinBoy2]

Well looking at TG's own website, the distressed asset sale isn't going so well, surprise surprise!

 

http://thaiaircrafttrading.com/index.html

 

Click on the aircraft tab, and as an aviation nerd I follow these things, and nothing has sold so far.

 

I'm also tickled by the 'as-is where-is'' disclaimer

 

I've seen what TG considers long term storage. The A340-500's were parked outside at DMK with little more than engine blanks for years. The airframe and internal electronics left in a hot humid climate will be rotted to Hell.

 

There is a reason airlines pay the money to send their surplus aircraft to storage facilities in Victorville, Teurel and Alice Springs, something that would be met with a 'deer in the headlights' response from anyone at TG management

Edited November 16, 2021 by GinBoy2

[RJRS1301]

On 11/16/2021 at 8:00 AM, Willy Wombat said:

Rubbery figures

Creative accounting?

 

[SomchaiCNX]

4 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Well looking at TG's own website, the distressed asset sale isn't going so well, surprise surprise!

 

http://thaiaircrafttrading.com/index.html

 

Click on the aircraft tab, and as an aviation nerd I follow these things, and nothing has sold so far.

 

I'm also tickled by the 'as-is where-is'' disclaimer

 

I've seen what TG considers long term storage. The A340-500's were parked outside at DMK with little more than engine blanks for years. The airframe and internal electronics left in a hot humid climate will be rotted to Hell.

 

There is a reason airlines pay the money to send their surplus aircraft to storage facilities in Victorville, Teurel and Alice Springs, something that would be met with a 'deer in the headlights' response from anyone at TG management

Another problem is that when they get an offer for a plane at real value at the real market price they probably refuse because it is to low in their opinion. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

https://simpleflying.com/thai-aiways-2021-financial-results/

[soi3eddie]

On 11/15/2021 at 10:03 PM, tingtong said:

Sold some planes.

No. Not yet! At end of September 2021 no planes had been sold. They keep saying they will sell 42 planes by year end. But then they have been saying they will be selling planes for over a year now.

 

[Pravda]

Where can I buy some shares?

[GinBoy2]

5 hours ago, SomchaiCNX said:

Another problem is that when they get an offer for a plane at real value at the real market price they probably refuse because it is to low in their opinion. 

Well if their past history is anything to go by, you will see these aircraft turning into rusty hulks before anything is sold.

 

Years ago they received an offer for one of the aforementioned A340-500's from a middle eastern charter company.

 

Now these aircraft even in pristine condition were basically worthless in the marketplace due to the fact they are horribly un-economical.

 

Any rational company would have taken the offer in a heartbeat and just written off the residual book price. 

 

But this is TG, and the result the aircraft sits at U-Tapao rotting away.

 

You can look at the rest of what they are trying to sell and wonder what will happen.

 

The B77X/BA74X/A33X do have an afterlife, but there are a lot washing around right now, and most of those are being properly stored, unlike in the TG case.

 

The A380's are for all intents and purposes unsellable, since no secondary market has emerged and we've already seen them starting to end up being scrapped for parts.

 

So my crystal ball prediction is that should we still be around in 10 years time, all these aircraft will be sat at U-Tapao looking very sad and dejected

[soi3eddie]

4 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

So my crystal ball prediction is that should we still be around in 10 years time, all these aircraft will be sat at U-Tapao looking very sad and dejected

Will that be the Thai Airways Bancruptcy Museum U-Tapao? Thais admitted free of charge and foreigners 1,000 Baht. All part of the "rehabilitation plan". Maybe it's those in position of power over these matters that need to be "rehabilitated". Permanently!

 

[soi3eddie]

8 hours ago, Pravda said:

Where can I buy some shares?

They will pay you to take them. Liabilities included.

 

[SomchaiCNX]

20 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Well if their past history is anything to go by, you will see these aircraft turning into rusty hulks before anything is sold.

 

Years ago they received an offer for one of the aforementioned A340-500's from a middle eastern charter company.

 

Now these aircraft even in pristine condition were basically worthless in the marketplace due to the fact they are horribly un-economical.

 

Any rational company would have taken the offer in a heartbeat and just written off the residual book price. 

 

But this is TG, and the result the aircraft sits at U-Tapao rotting away.

 

You can look at the rest of what they are trying to sell and wonder what will happen.

 

The B77X/BA74X/A33X do have an afterlife, but there are a lot washing around right now, and most of those are being properly stored, unlike in the TG case.

 

The A380's are for all intents and purposes unsellable, since no secondary market has emerged and we've already seen them starting to end up being scrapped for parts.

 

So my crystal ball prediction is that should we still be around in 10 years time, all these aircraft will be sat at U-Tapao looking very sad and dejected

Yes, I remember that but I was to busy to search for it. I'm an airplane lover myself and it hurts when I look at those bone yards but the rotting away of these airplanes on Thai soil is even worse. 

[Jambo55]

On 11/16/2021 at 5:49 AM, GinBoy2 said:

This is a smoke and mirrors game.

 

They have moved a sh**t load of distressed assets to below the line. Those assets, aka aircraft are practically worthless, just add them to the A340-500's.

 

So 'maybe' on a current account basis they may be profitable, they are still horribly in debt

The accountants are very creative!

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Jambo55 said:

The accountants are very creative!

Key point from above:

 

I wonder what the current recorded/book value is?

But .... as above, in reality 'practically worthless'.

 

It would be interesting to use this case as a masters degree case study, with students tasked to conduct a detailed/insightful due diligence on their books. And tasked to write suggested amendments to appropriate laws. 

[fondue zoo]

 

Don't they owe money overseas for their aircraft?

[asiam110]

Quote

that debts to potential passengers who had their flights cancelled are no longer recognised as debts (so you will never be refunded) (dereognition)

Surely they can't continue flying to European airports if they dont respect the laws regarding this? I thought all airlines that departure european were bound by something written into laws regarding delays and cancellations and refunds.

[GinBoy2]

7 minutes ago, asiam110 said:

Surely they can't continue flying to European airports if they dont respect the laws regarding this? I thought all airlines that departure european were bound by something written into laws regarding delays and cancellations and refunds.

Those rules only apply to airlines registered within the EU and subject to EU law.

 

When you buy a ticket with an airline registered outside the EU you are bound by the terms and conditions of that jurisdiction.

 

All EU, or any countries aviation law cares about is airworthiness, not the commercial deal you struck when you bought a ticket