‘Joe Ferrari’, six other ex-cops deny charge of torturing suspect to death

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, Classic Ray said:

In UK and US law an essential difference between murder and manslaughter is murder must be carried out “with malice aforethought, either express or implied” which translates as an intention to kill or cause really serious bodily harm. If the prosecution can prove that the acts committed were intended at minimum to cause really serious bodily harm, then it will be murder. Otherwise it can only be manslaughter at most. So putting one bag on a victim’s head for short periods resulting in death might be manslaughter, whereas several bags and tape being used is good evidence of intent from the point of view that such actions  showed at least recklessness for the welfare of the victim. 
 

It is difficult to prove what is in the mind of the killers, called mens rea, and depends on skillful interview and evidence gathered before and after the fact.

 

i also don’t know to what extent Thai law follows these principles

My understanding is that there is the same concept of establishing "mens rea" - although obviously they do not use the Latin term.

 

However, the practicalities in Thailand, and the absence of a jury who have to be convinced of the "mens rea", means that a wide variety of other factors, often very specific to the individuals accused, come into play.

[Clarkey611]

With six plastic bags, not only would he be unable to breathe, but no one would be able to hear what he said!

[Bangkok Barry]

5 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

He seriously thought the man he was assaulting would not die having plastic bags and tape wrapped around his head ? 

Killing him would have been of no benefit at all to those involved. He and the others were simply too stupid to know that what they did would result in his death. After all, as the post below says, they were stupid enough to do what they did in front of CCTV, so they aren't the brightest lights in the room. So he might get away with that charge,

Edited November 20, 2021 by Bangkok Barry

[LarrySR]

Joe Ferrari is in trouble because he got caught and the police department lost face. 

Now the justice system has to pretend to care.....next time, turn off the CCTV you dummy.

[shackleton]

While deciding his fate they should dispose of all his ill gains for starters 

While not holding my breath no pun intended on the outcome of the trial 

The Country is watching to see if crime does pay 

[sanuk711]

Did THEY mean to kill him --I dont think so, or he would have been found in a ditch somewhere --not done in the Police station. They wanted more money from him---set him free to peddle more drugs to the towns population, then drag him in for another payment.

 

 

 

Further, the Thai Criminal Code imposes the maximum penalty of death, when the killing was done under the following circumstances:

1. If the victim is an ascendant of the offender;

2. If the victim is an official acting in the exercise of his official functions or having exercise his functions;

3. If the victim is a person who assisted, is planning to assist or has assisted an official who is performing an official function;

4. If the killing was premeditated;

5. If the offender employs torture or any acts of cruelty;

6. If the killing was made for the purpose of preparing or facilitating the commission of another offense;

7. If the killing was made for the purpose of securing the benefit of another offense, or for concealing another offense or for the purpose of escaping punishment from authorities for another offense.

[Nip]

2 hours ago, stevomaui said:

I have never watched someone suffocating but I imagine that there would be great a struggle and resistance which would become less and less as the person is dying . For sure the police were pushing this man to the limit hoping to  extract a confession . They didn't want him to die before the confession was given . I don't think it was premeditated but the end result was the same . I'm waiting for an reinactment of the crime with Joe in the hot seat 

They didn't need a confession because they often type out a confession  and either force him to sign it or forge it. They wanted to locate the stash of drugs or money. 

[wombat]

Of course they didn't kill him.

Thats obvious from the cctv...he chose to suicide rather than give up the name of his supplier.

Even blind Freddy could see that.

[mikeymike100]

2 hours ago, crazykopite said:

I can’t help but think about the poor soul who had every breath squeezed out of his body the torture and suffering must have been unbearable as far as I am concerned everybody in that room is either guilty of murder or an accomplice to murder as no one apparently tried to stop what was happening I expect all of them to be found guilty and receive the death sentence .

Totally agree with you, they should all be hanged or shot. The problem is Ferrari has a lot of money and has contacts in high places, maybe not high enough, we shall see. In Thailand as we all know strange things can and do happen.

[IamNoone88]

The action of brutally suffocating the guy was intention enough. The resulting death on video and subsequent cover up was a clear result of that intention.

[cyril sneer]

2 hours ago, Stargeezr said:

  But this is Thailand. so we all get to watch the proceedings and see if there is any justice in the country.

Geezer

you or him?

[Moonlover]

3 hours ago, stevomaui said:

I have never watched someone suffocating but I imagine that there would be great a struggle and resistance which would become less and less as the person is dying . For sure the police were pushing this man to the limit hoping to  extract a confession . They didn't want him to die before the confession was given . I don't think it was premeditated but the end result was the same . I'm waiting for an reinactment of the crime with Joe in the hot seat 

One small point I would like to raise regarding your post. How do suppose they would have expected the victim to confess when he had several layers of plastic wrapped round his head?

[DJ54]

Early on if I remember correctly the law needed to be revamped for this type confession 

methods had stiffer penalties and clarity on meaning. My guess and only a guess could leave 

wiggle room as new law doesn’t pertain being after the incident...

[Will B Good]

Well if Rittenhouse can get off, this will be a walk in the park for them......might even get a promotion out if it.

[Hayduke]

 

“What? Who? Joe....Ferrari? Nope, I don’t know what you guys are talking about. This must be some sort of misunderstanding. The name’s Isuzu....Joe Isuzu.”

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Hayduke

[Will B Good]

If at some point a person is alive, then at some later stage they are not alive (and haven't died of natural causes).......then someone has caused that transition from being alive to not being alive.

 

That someone has to account for how the transition took place..........in this case, putting six plastic bags over someones head seems to be the reason........and someone has to be held accountable, regardless of another circumstances.

[sjbrownderby]

3 hours ago, Classic Ray said:

In UK and US law an essential difference between murder and manslaughter is murder must be carried out “with malice aforethought, either express or implied” which translates as an intention to kill or cause really serious bodily harm.

I think you will find that if death is a direct consequence of an illegal and violent assault, then they are guilty of murder. The man was in no position to defend himself against those who committed the act which is an aggravating factor to be considered. All of the evidence you need to prove that is in the video, even without the sound. If the death occurred as a direct result of a legal act or negligent act then the charges might be different. 

[kcpattaya]

I am innocent! Can't you see?
This CCTV footage is manipulated. Not real. It wasn't me.

[bradiston]

Quite obviously self defence. The geezer attacked him with a plastic bag which inadvertently got wrapped around his head in the ensuing struggle. They were trying to pull his head out when the geezer conked.

[bradiston]

2 hours ago, Hayduke said:

 

“What? Who? Joe....Ferrari? Nope, I don’t know what you guys are talking about. This must be some sort of misunderstanding. The name’s Isuzu....Joe Isuzu.”

 

 

 

Looks just like another Ferrari afficionado that went missing some years ago. Hope it's not all going to be déjà vu.

[rudi49jr]

Apparently the camera not only adds 10 pounds, but it also gives viewers hallucinations, like visions of cops torturing someone. It’s all on camera for everyone to see, and still these morons maintain they did nothing wrong. 

[Aussie999]

5 hours ago, RobinV said:

I'm amazed the er cops haven't been dealt with. Better this just goes away, slipped on the soap or faulty power switch etc.

So the obvious answer is they are going to get off, suspended sentence for time served and no justice whatsoever. TIT

Well, this reminds me, of a few years back, 2 cops, from up north, just can't remember the province, were found guilty, of murder, sentenced to death, but hey, this is Thailand, they were set free, on bail, lol, never to be seen, or heard of, again.

 

[greenmonkey]

essentially what Joe is saying is "yes I did torture him but I didn't intend to kill him - so how can I be guilty?". Will be quite unbelievable if he gets off - but my thoughts are that this is Thailand and Joe will find a way out. The plan is to drag this out for as long as possible to the point that once all the attention disappears - then Joe will be a free man.

[Bluespunk]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

Dismissed former superintendent of Thailand’s Nakhon Sawan police, Thitisan “Joe Ferrari” Uttanaphon, admitted in court today (Friday) that he assaulted suspect, Jirapong Thanapat, to extract information about the illicit drug trade, but denied the charge of torturing him to death, saying he did not mean to kill him.

And what makes you think that's any better...your deliberate and premeditated actions led to this murder.

 

I hope you never see the light of day again, filth.

[DrMJA]

Same-same for Red Bull heir, (nick name) Boss.

Killed a policeman with his Ferrari while driving drunk.  Ran away from the scene of the crime, went home and told the man servant to lie and pretend he was driving. 

Boss has never been brought to justice.
Sadly, the Land of Smiles. The more you have, the more you smile! 

[RichardColeman]

4 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Killing him would have been of no benefit at all to those involved. He and the others were simply too stupid to know that what they did would result in his death. After all, as the post below says, they were stupid enough to do what they did in front of CCTV, so they aren't the brightest lights in the room. So he might get away with that charge,

Completely disagree with this argument - it's the same as the defendant saying we repeatedly stabbed him with long knives in questioning and he accidentally died of blood loss !

[Dont confuse me]

My thoughts are that Joe is admitting assaulting the victim with a plastic bag, but not the fatal bag, he could argue that 1 or 2 were placed loosely over the head to illicit a confession however the others were not of his doing neither was the tightening of them around the neck.

A little far fetched but if the video was to go walkies along with the whistle blower, he might stand a chance!

I am also surprised that it appears they are all sticking together no one is apparently looking for a deal?

But TIT looking forward to the end result!

[Nip]

4 hours ago, sjbrownderby said:

I think you will find that if death is a direct consequence of an illegal and violent assault, then they are guilty of murder. The man was in no position to defend himself against those who committed the act which is an aggravating factor to be considered. All of the evidence you need to prove that is in the video, even without the sound. If the death occurred as a direct result of a legal act or negligent act then the charges might be different. 

Thai law is as good as any in the world, they are good copiers, however logic and intelligence and the will to uphold the law is lacking. 

[koele2]

Don’t worry, a deal has probably been made already.  My guess is 5 yrs, all his fancy cars and money distributed to the higher ups, and he gets to keep a little when he gets out.  All contingent upon him not ratting out his bosses and how rotten to the core everyone at his level or above are.  If there was no video, he would have gone free.

[chang1]

6 hours ago, Thunglom said:

in the "war on drugs" it' hard to tell who is more dangerous, the perps or the enforcers.

after decades of failure perhaps the authorities might consider what a pointless "war" it is.

Pointless war?

So drugs of all kinds are totally safe and should be freely available to anyone who wants them?

People should be allowed to give school kids whatever they want to get them hooked?

Just look at the harm legal drugs like alcohol and tobacco cause. 

Personally I don't care if someone wants to ruin their lives with drugs but unfortunately it's not just the users who suffer. Families, road users, work colleagues, hospital and first responders are just some of those that get impacted. The war will never be won as there will always be weak people needing a high and low life's willing to supply drugs no matter how risky.

Better education and more emphasis on the effects of drugs on other people may help. Things like 10 year driving bans for those found driving with illegal drugs. People who neglect their children or commit crimes due to drugs should be forced to go cold turkey and then get help to stay off them. Fines and prisons are certainly not much of a deterrent. 

If your drug of choice doesn't cause you to affect other people in any way and you have it under control then I see little point in taking any action against you but as soon as you start a car engine or forget to feed your kid then you deserve all you get. 

Joe deserves to loose all his wealth and spend at least 20 years locked up. As for his subordinates, they are probably too scared to stand up against the system but still need to spend a good time behind bars. As for the victim, if he was involved with the drug trade, I am not too worried about him and his death will send out a warning signal to others. 

You may think the war is pointless but I would much rather police were stopping scumbags giving my kid drugs through the school railings than me having to stop them.