Land department Bangplee office gave me FALSE information about the possibility of buying a house in my child's name

[Justanotherone]

 

Land department Bangplee office gave me FALSE information about the possibility of buying a house in my child's name

 

I planned to buy a house as an investment and rent it out.

 

My child is Thai, so I asked the Land department, if this was possible.

It was confirmed by them, I found a house that I liked, paid a deposit.

 

Today we went with seller, broker, to the land department.

 

Suddenly the person that gave the false information was not available to serve us.

 

Another person came back and said, cannot buy a house in your child's name, without permission of the EX WIFE.

 

I am divorced for many years and there is ZERO contact from the so called mother.

 

We sadly have shared custody of our child, even she never bother to show up or to pay for anything at all.

 

The mother even blocked the child for line, facebook, direct calling.

 

The broker got a hold with the so called mother and got snapped at, she said it was not her problem and hung up.

 

 

So there I am, my deposit is gone as the broker claims it is not the sellers fault, which is true.

 

But it is technically also not my fault as I got FALSE information of the land department.

 

 

Getting sole custody, lol, I asked 10 different lawyers years ago,

 

they are fast to ask 100K+ as a retainer, to try, with no promises.

 

I got one honest lawyer they said : if the mother did not beat the child into the hospital, there is zero chance of getting full custody.

 

Or the classic :  the mother is poor and wants cash to buy the child to give up custody.

 

 

This is a sad sad world...

 

Farang cannot buy a house in his name

 

Farang is not allowed to buy stocks (asked several banks where I am client for YEARS)

 

Farang is not allowed to have a saving account that give some interest...

 

Farang cannot give money to his child to buy a house in child's name without the ex that is knowhere to be seen ...

[saakura]

Sorry about your situation, just hope it clears up and you are able to take care of the child.

[EricTh]

@Justanotherone

 

You got it wrong.

 

Foreigner is allowed to have savings account that bear interest. I have been doing that for years even though the interest is pittance.

 

Thai officers can be quite dodgy because there is no official written record of what is right or wrong.

 

If you buy the house in your son's name for own stay then it's more legit than buying for investment purpose.

 

If your ex-wife doesn't take care of the child at all, you can file for full custody.

Edited November 22, 2021 by EricTh

[BritManToo]

44 minutes ago, Justanotherone said:

Farang cannot give money to his child to buy a house in child's name without the ex that is knowhere to be seen ...

if you'd asked us, we would have given you the correct information.

The sticking point at the land office is appointing the house manager, which has to be one of the parents by mutual consent of both parents. If one parent won't consent, then it can't be done.

 

PS. It's foreigner, not farang, they don't care what colour your skin is, just that your nationality is not Thai.

 

PPS. If she were dead, you wouldn't have a problem.

Edited November 22, 2021 by BritManToo

[Oxx]

11 hours ago, Justanotherone said:

Farang is not allowed to buy stocks (asked several banks where I am client for YEARS)

Of course foreigners are allowed to buy stocks.  You're just asking the wrong people.  Banks don't sell them, brokerages do.  You'd need to ask a brokerage to open an account, not a bank.

 

(Most banks here have a brokerage arm.  However, it's a separate company, and you have to approach the brokerage directly.  You can't open a brokerage account at a bank branch.)

[clivebaxter]

I was told usufruct not possible at the same land office, handing over 1k was though so we were not stuck there all day waiting for the forms to be processed. ????

[bluejets]

Lesson is, as always, get legal advice.

Don't use chat channels etc.

[digbeth]

12 hours ago, BritManToo said:

if you'd asked us, we would have given you the correct information.

The sticking point at the land office is appointing the house manager, which has to be one of the parents by mutual consent of both parents. If one parent won't consent, then it can't be done.

 

PS. It's foreigner, not farang, they don't care what colour your skin is, just that your nationality is not Thai.

 

PPS. If she were dead, you wouldn't have a problem.

I thought the housebook can be empty, you don't need to move the child into the house at all, this should be separate from owning the deed to the land and shouldn't be an issue right?

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, digbeth said:

I thought the housebook can be empty, you don't need to move the child into the house at all, this should be separate from owning the deed to the land and shouldn't be an issue right?

House manager has nothing to do with house book.

It's entered on the deed when the house is owned by a minor.

[JayBird]

If you put the house in the child's name, and the child is a minor, is it possible the mother may lay claim?

 

 

In Thailand, assume a foreigner has no rights, then work your way up from there.

 

Btw, you can open up a brokerage account with interactive brokers, td ameritrade Singapore, etc.

 

Also, try banking with UOB as they seem more foreigner friendly.

 

 

 

[Tracyb]

Is it not possible to open a Thai company and put the house in the company’s name?

[sanuk711]

13 hours ago, Justanotherone said:

Farang cannot buy a house in his name

 

Farang is not allowed to buy stocks (asked several banks where I am client for YEARS)

 

Farang is not allowed to have a saving account that give some interest...

 

Farang cannot give money to his child to buy a house in child's name without the ex that is knowhere to be seen ...

Oh wow....Poor poor Farang...............

[Pravda]

14 hours ago, Justanotherone said:

But it is technically also not my fault as I got FALSE information of the land department.

Just want to correct you here. It's always your fault when dealing with government and it has nothing to do with Thailand. Years ago I called tax department in my own country as I had a question. They gave me a completely wrong advice which cost me thousands in penalties. 

 

It was my fault.

[tomazbodner]

I thought foreigner can own the house, just not the land it stands on, which can only be leased for 30 years. Don't shoot me if that's wrong, got this information on this very forum.

[jippytum]

The land office did not give you false information .You can legally buy a house in your child's name .The fact you required your now ex wife's permission was your mistake from lack of legal advice .

Your other comments regarding foreigners buying stocks etc indicate you are ill informed about other issues .

[JBChiangRai]

You can buy the house in a company name giving your child more than 99% of the shares, a child can't be a director but can be a shareholder.  It's better if you're not a director or shareholder at time of purchase transfer at the land office, but become the sole director afterwards.

 

 

[onekoolguy]

Keep in mind that while it's possible for minors to own property, they cannot sell, mortgage etc. Until they reach legal age without a court order. Can create a lot of difficulties?

[LukKrueng]

32 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

You can buy the house in a company name giving your child more than 99% of the shares, a child can't be a director but can be a shareholder.  It's better if you're not a director or shareholder at time of purchase transfer at the land office, but become the sole director afterwards.

 

 

Pretty sure he'll need his wife's concent to "buy" shares in the company as well. Also there are many threads in this forum about the costs and procedures for selling a company owned house and dissolving the company. Can be a painful and costly procedure. 

[LukKrueng]

55 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

I thought foreigner can own the house, just not the land it stands on, which can only be leased for 30 years. Don't shoot me if that's wrong, got this information on this very forum.

A misconception. The only document indicating ownership of property is the chanot and you cannot get a separate chanot for a house. The only exception AFAIK is when buying a house from a developer of a gated village where they issue 1 chanot for the land and another for the house (which technically is meaningless IMO as the owner of the land won't be able to sell the land without the house and the owner of the house won't be able to sell the house without the land...)

[LukKrueng]

2 hours ago, JayBird said:

If you put the house in the child's name, and the child is a minor, is it possible the mother may lay claim?

No. The child's rights are protected by the courts. Any transaction done must be approved by the court and they'll only approve it if it will benefit the child. 

[Seeall]

2 hours ago, JayBird said:

If you put the house in the child's name, and the child is a minor, is it possible the mother may lay claim?

 

 

In Thailand, assume a foreigner has no rights, then work your way up from there.

 

Btw, you can open up a brokerage account with interactive brokers, td ameritrade Singapore, etc.

 

Also, try banking with UOB as they seem more foreigner friendly.

 

 

 

Why bother trading in a sticky place like this anyways... plenty of good brokers out there in the easy world...

[bradiston]

24 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

A misconception. The only document indicating ownership of property is the chanot and you cannot get a separate chanot for a house. The only exception AFAIK is when buying a house from a developer of a gated village where they issue 1 chanot for the land and another for the house (which technically is meaningless IMO as the owner of the land won't be able to sell the land without the house and the owner of the house won't be able to sell the house without the land...)

I "own" a house standing on my Thai daughter's land. She has the chanote to the land, I have my name on the building permit. It seems the latter is in reality meaningless in terms of ownership, although it's not been tested, by for instance my trying to sell the house. I have a usufruct agreement with her, entered on the chanote. The local IO refuse to accept the house as my address, claiming my daughter is the owner. Welcome to the real world.

[EricTh]

4 hours ago, Oxx said:

Of course foreigners are allowed to buy stocks.  You're just asking the wrong people.  Banks don't sell them, brokerages do.  You'd need to ask a brokerage to open an account, not a bank.

 

(Most banks here have a brokerage arm.  However, it's a separate company, and you have to approach the brokerage directly.  You can't open a brokerage account at a bank branch.)

 

Can you recommend a good brokerage company that is linked to a good bank like Bangkok Bank, Krungsri or KrungThai?

 

I have wanted to open one but due to communication problem at the bank....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[EricTh]

2 hours ago, Pravda said:

Just want to correct you here. It's always your fault when dealing with government and it has nothing to do with Thailand. Years ago I called tax department in my own country as I had a question. They gave me a completely wrong advice which cost me thousands in penalties. 

 

It was my fault.

Don't quite agree with this statement. Govt offices have the obligation to give correct information to the public.

 

I sometimes get different information from the volunteers and the officers inside the immigration office. It goes to show that when they make rules, they don't make detailed rules in black and white which makes it ambiguous and costly.

 

I can understand the thread starter's grievance because he did lose his deposit. I  was also given wrong information sometimes by immigration but that was only a small penalty compared to his.

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by EricTh

[EricTh]

15 minutes ago, bradiston said:

I "own" a house standing on my Thai daughter's land. She has the chanote to the land, I have my name on the building permit. It seems the latter is in reality meaningless in terms of ownership, although it's not been tested, by for instance my trying to sell the house. I have a usufruct agreement with her, entered on the chanote. The local IO refuse to accept the house as my address, claiming my daughter is the owner. Welcome to the real world.

 

Did the land office wanted both parents' consent before transferring to your daughter's name?

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by EricTh

[AustinRacing]

Another case of blaming everyone else but himself. Poor planning and lack of due diligence is own responsibility. Live and learn. 

[Khabib]

51 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

Can you recommend a good brokerage company that is linked to a good bank like Bangkok Bank, Krungsri or KrungThai?

 

I have wanted to open one but due to communication problem at the bank....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bualuang is the stock broker for Bangkok Bank. I can recommend as I use it myself, and Bangkok Bank assisted me with all the paperwork. Then you can trade from a website www.bualuang.co.th , and you can download "streaming" app to your phone which is predominantly the method I use. Transfers of money in and out can only be done on the website. It's all very easy once you're up and running. You nave to trade "nvdr" shares, which are exactly the same as ordinary shares, receive dividends etc, but just no voting rights in company matters. Hope that helps.

[Khabib]

In relation to the OP, my family's home is shared 3 ways, my two children and wife all being equal owners. The Land office initially tried to stop us doing it (wanting a brown envelope I believe), but we found a useful contact at the Land Head Office in Bangkok, who said "go back to the land office, if any problem, just call me from there". We went back the next day, and strangely, then it all went very smoothly without needing to call Bangkok 555

[Oxx]

15 minutes ago, Khabib said:

You nave to trade "nvdr" shares, which are exactly the same as ordinary shares, receive dividends etc, but just no voting rights in company matters.

I have no idea whether that's a Bualuang Securities-specific restriction, but generally, foreigners can trade the two classes of company shares (Thai- and Foreign-ownership) and also NVDRs (non-voting depository receipts).  (The Thai class does not allow dividends, the other two do.)

Edited November 23, 2021 by Oxx
Speling eror

[Khabib]

57 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

Did the land office wanted both parents' consent before transferring to your daughter's name?

 

 

 

The land office would require you to sign, but that's more about an acceptance that you have no rights over the property I believe.