Can Thailand become a digital nomad hub?

[tingtongfarang]

3 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

First they have to actually want foreigners here, which the majority don't and certainly not in any significant numbers.

In reality they dont even want tourists here, only foreign money

[mokwit]

1 hour ago, The Cipher said:

What I'd most like to have is a more convenient visa that offers an elegant multi-entry and long-stay solution with minimal hassle.

That used to be available from the Honolulu or Houston consulate through Lars or Vinnie.

Edited December 5, 2021 by mokwit

[Swiss1960]

8 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

First they have to actually want foreigners here, which the majority don't and certainly not in any significant numbers.

They DO want foreigners with money and/or high income, and digital nomads would mostly qualify in that category, and the Thai government could gain a significant amount of Tax income... however, none of these foreigners will jump through the hoops with creating a company where he does not control the shares, where he needs employees for nothing, when he can do it either without the knowledge of the Thai government or in a country that is less restrictive. 

I just don't understand all those requirements and restrictions... the latest example was the 4-year duration for the digital visa, why not just make it unlimited with annual extension? I was looking into creating an IT security company (God and the 7-eyed-spaghetti-monster both know that Thailand could use expertise in that area), but it is just crazy that I have to hire Thai employees while I am in the process of developing the business... I was told that I can not even do an exploration with potential customers, before I have finalized all the company creation steps and got my work permit...

[Karma80]

Entrepreneur and digital nomad are two of the most overused terms in the last couple of years. I winced when I saw her title as an entrepreneur coach. But, she has some solid points and many that made me personally take Thailand as a base.

 

I'd certainly welcome a 10-year long-stay visa. It would make me want to commit more financially to the country, rather than living on yearly extensions.

 

The devil will be in the detail though, and I suspect the it will be the government departments who understand the least about the the very thing they say they want to achieve. You only have to look to the SMART visa as a good example.

[Peterw42]

This is just a woman with a business selling the myth of being a digital nomad.

 

Show me a real example of someone that is an actual digital nomad, not just someone who's only business is talking about being a digital nomad.

 

99% of these so called digital nomads are just calling themselves digital nomads and their business is perpetuating the myth.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Peterw42

[mokwit]

20 minutes ago, Swiss1960 said:

4-year duration for the digital visa, why not just make it unlimited with annual extension?

They figure they will have been able to transfer you IP by then. The reason they restrict the number of work permits is so that companies have to put Thais in key positions so that they can learn the business. How do I know, one employee of a foreign company I worked for told me they were here to learn the business so that they could set up and do it themselves (I'd kinda worked that out already).

[The Cipher]

6 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Show me a real example of someone that is an actual digital nomad, not just someone who's only business is talking about being a digital nomad.

Hi there ????

[Jeffr2]

9 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

This is just a woman with a business selling the myth of being a digital nomad.

 

Show me a real example of someone that is an actual digital nomad, not just someone who's only business is talking about being a digital nomad.

 

99% of these so called digital nomads are just calling themselves digital nomads and their business is perpetuating the myth.

During my travels around Thailand, I've met many. Many.

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

During my travels around Thailand, I've met many. Many.

Yes, I have met many who "call" themselves digital nomads. Reality is they just post rubbish on social media, or make youtube videos, about being a digital nomad. Or "how to be a drop-shipping millionaire"

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, Peterw42 said:

Yes, I have met many who "call" themselves digital nomads. Reality is they just post rubbish on social media, or make youtube videos, about being a digital nomad. Or "how to be a drop-shipping millionaire"

That's not the kind that I met.

[The Cipher]

3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Yes, I have met many who "call" themselves digital nomads. Reality is they just post rubbish on social media, or make youtube videos, about being a digital nomad. Or "how to be a drop-shipping millionaire"

This forum skews pretty old, so I do find myself curious about how many under 40s you speak to. Since, you know, most remote workers are in general younger than this forum demographic.

 

I'm an investment analyst by day and have started spending a few months of each year working remotely in Bangkok. Girlfriend in enterprise software sales does the same. We're both 30 and many of our friends in Thailand are also able to make good livings online either via remote work or other forms of e-com.

 

And I'm not hiding on the internet. Will be flying into Bangkok on Tuesday (Covid-willing) and staying through March. You can probably find me if you're really that curious if we actually exist ????.

[khunPer]

To be a hub for digital nomads and remote workers, or just a place they'll prefer to stay, Thailand need to clear the question about work permit when working only for customers abroad or foreign employers - many digital nomads might be self employed, while remote workers are employed by foreign companies - and make the visa access paperwork attractive without too many complicated demand of for example education. Instead claim a mandatory income tax registration, and some level of minimum health insurance. The latter could be like the 400k+40k baht retirement insurance claim, which could cover for public hospitals; one can still buy higher insurance cover, if one wish. Income tax is easy, all money taken into Thailand - if not covered by a double taxation agreement - are income taxable, and the amount shall be enough to pay for living costs, which could be like equal to marriage conditions or retirement conditions - like 40k or 65k baht a month - with an optional savings deposit combination, where those of 400k or 800k baht already in place are not unreasonable high. It's more simple to understand if similar rules and amounts are used all over.

 

The benefit for the nation is - apart from some income tax - that more people will spend money, and especially supporting local business, including small shops and self employed Thais. Those making huge money - successful digital nomads and well paid remote workers - will pay more tax and spend more money, and they might even invest some of their income in Thailand in for example homes or equity.

 

It can easily be win-win for all...????

[mokwit]

19 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

This forum skews pretty old, so I do find myself curious about how many under 40s you speak to. Since, you know, most remote workers are in general younger than this forum demographic.

 

I'm an investment analyst by day and have started spending a few months of each year working remotely in Bangkok. Girlfriend in enterprise software sales does the same. We're both 30 and many of our friends in Thailand are also able to make good livings online either via remote work or other forms of e-com.

 

And I'm not hiding on the internet. Will be flying into Bangkok on Tuesday (Covid-willing) and staying through March. You can probably find me if you're really that curious if we actually exist ????.

You are not really a digital nomad you are a remote working employee (or at least your wife is from what you wrote). That is not the same as someone claiming to make a living blogging or travel writing etc which is how the term is more normally applied. Certainly there are businesses that are viable form Thailand as they would be in your home in US or wherever. For sure we are likely to see more remote working employees. hope your clients are in Europe or Asia - not many can stand having to be live for US hours.

[mokwit]

26 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Instead claim a mandatory income tax registration, and some level of minimum health insurance.

Be careful what you wish for. It won't be on your terms it will be on theirs.

Edited December 5, 2021 by mokwit

[tingtongfarang]

30 minutes ago, khunPer said:

To be a hub for digital nomads and remote workers, or just a place they'll prefer to stay, Thailand need to clear the question about work permit when working only for customers abroad or foreign employers - many digital nomads might be self employed, while remote workers are employed by foreign companies - and make the visa access paperwork attractive without too many complicated demand of for example education. Instead claim a mandatory income tax registration, and some level of minimum health insurance. The latter could be like the 400k+40k baht retirement insurance claim, which could cover for public hospitals; one can still buy higher insurance cover, if one wish. Income tax is easy, all money taken into Thailand - if not covered by a double taxation agreement - are income taxable, and the amount shall be enough to pay for living costs, which could be like equal to marriage conditions or retirement conditions - like 40k or 65k baht a month - with an optional savings deposit combination, where those of 400k or 800k baht already in place are not unreasonable high. It's more simple to understand if similar rules and amounts are used all over.

 

The benefit for the nation is - apart from some income tax - that more people will spend money, and especially supporting local business, including small shops and self employed Thais. Those making huge money - successful digital nomads and well paid remote workers - will pay more tax and spend more money, and they might even invest some of their income in Thailand in for example homes or equity.

 

It can easily be win-win for all...????

All these things you mention would make thailand uninteresting for true digital nomads, they just want to wander in work-relax and use the internet for a while before moving on, the only advantage to the government in a nomads life style is that they are big spenders for the most part (maybe more than the well healed tourists they speak of) which the government proposes to want

[khunPer]

10 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Be careful what you wish for. It won't be on your terms it will be on theirs.

I'm from Scandinavia so I don't want "my terms", I just love their incredible, almost unbelievable, low income tax terms...????

[mokwit]

We keep on hearing what big spenders digital nomads are but when they are asking about visa options as soon as someone mentions the Elite Visa they clam up. It seems visa runs to Cambodia and 4,000 baht apartments are much more the norm. that said, those who really are making it work (and I don't doubt their existence, only their numbers) in a non corporate environment, you have my admiration, especially if you are young.

[khunPer]

3 minutes ago, tingtongfarang said:

All these things you mention would make thailand uninteresting for true digital nomads, they just want to wander in work-relax and use the internet for a while before moving on, the only advantage to the government in a nomads life style is that they are big spenders for the most part (maybe more than the well healed tourists they speak of) which the government proposes to want

There are also "digital nomads" that stays for long time - I know quite some, and they stay for longer periods - but perhaps you should rather call them "remote workers", which my post includes...????

 

Short term nomads can already use tourist visa + 30 days extension, or just visa exempt + 30 days extension, and spend a lot of money while staying in the Kingdom...

[mokwit]

9 minutes ago, khunPer said:

I'm from Scandinavia so I don't want "my terms", I just love their incredible, almost unbelievable, low income tax terms...????

Yes but you are advocating the demise of that. If there is any revamp of regulations it is unlikely to be in our favour. This is not going to be a tax paradise once data capture is sufficiently advanced. IMO If they have not pursuing foreign tax it is as much from the difficulty previously of doing so.  Think how the visa situation changed once they had the technology to to know about and control the minutia of everything. There is already evidence that they are triangulating so that if you have been here 181 days and are not registered for tax, likely there will come a time at some point that it will be that you will get contacted.

Edited December 5, 2021 by mokwit

[hotchilli]

3 hours ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

Lynn Howard, an entrepreneurial coach and consultant believes that, with great Wi-Fi, infrastructure and all the energy Thailand brings, we could become a real capital for digital nomads, but that needs practical action by the public sector.

Have to get immigration on the same page first.

[rtco]

2 hours ago, recom273 said:

Yes, I noticed a lot of these digital nomads are just perpetuating the myth of the digital nomad by selling their services, producing videos or speaking at seminars but very few actually make a real living from the gospel they preach, maybe i'm wrong.

You are wrong ... I do.

[tingtongfarang]

3 minutes ago, mokwit said:

We keep on hearing what big spenders digital nomads are but when they are asking about visa options as soon as someone mentions the Elite Visa they clam up. It seems visa runs to Cambodia and 4,000 baht apartments are much more the norm. that said, those who really are making it work (and I don't doubt their existence, only their numbers) in a non corporate environment, you have my admiration, especially if you are young.

To many things like the elite visa were totally uninteresting as often they did,nt spend enough time here to warrant such a visa, in any case they very much did exist but are now gone (thailands loss), they wont get them back talking about special visas or tax schemes,

By definition a nomad has freedom of movement

[tingtongfarang]

11 minutes ago, khunPer said:

There are also "digital nomads" that stays for long time - I know quite some, and they stay for longer periods - but perhaps you should rather call them "remote workers", which my post includes...????

 

Short term nomads can already use tourist visa + 30 days extension, or just visa exempt + 30 days extension, and spend a lot of money while staying in the Kingdom...

I would call them people who work from home

[mokwit]

1 minute ago, tingtongfarang said:

often they did,nt spend enough time here to warrant such a visa,

Most of the questions seemed to be about how to stay here year 'round. If they were traveling that much they could just get 30 days at the airport every time and extend 30 days in country if needed. I know someone who effectively runs a business here doing that because he travels so much.

 

All I can say is what used to be Thailand's "unpublished authors", morphed into internet entrepreneurs, then currency traders, and now they are "nomads"/crypto millionaires.

[cheapcanuck]

Dream on Thailand. With the government controlled internet information flow, no nomads will come to Thailand to live & work.

[Peterw42]

Non existent theoretical drop shipping, making videos about digital nomads, teaching English online for $2 an hour, posting rubbish on social media, pyramid selling, collecting for charities, pretending you are a consultant (doing no sales, commission based sales), anything to do with Bitcoin, is not a job/career/business.

You're unemployed with a laptop. Nobody is coding NASAs next space shuttle launch from Ko Pha Ngan

 

[recom273]

2 hours ago, rtco said:

You are wrong ... I do.

So that’s two people who claim to be digital nomads.

 

I make my living online - but I’m no way a nomad. I enjoy the freedom to work from  home and earn a decent wage. I have computers, tablets, storage, monitors backup power and peripherals - all essential kit - how can I just lump that all in a backpack and jet off to South America and carry on. I also have to do 8 hours work a day, I also can’t just take time off to swan off to the islands, I wouldn’t have any customers if I wasn’t reliable. 
 

I think myself pretty lucky, I make a decent wage, but I’m far from what this government think I should be earning to qualify for a visa, and I’m a long way away from the picture this woman paints.

Edited December 5, 2021 by recom273

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, recom273 said:

So that’s two people who claim to be digital nomads.

 

I make my living online - but I’m no way a nomad. I enjoy the freedom to work from  home and earn a decent wage. I have computers, tablets, storage, monitors backup power and peripherals - all essential kit - how can I just lump that all in a backpack and jet off to South America and carry on. 
 

I think myself pretty lucky, I make a decent wage, but I’m far from what this government think I should be earning to qualify for a visa, and I’m a long way away from the picture this woman paints.

All of that can be done from a good laptop.  Easy.  Which is what the digital nomads I've seen do.

[Stocky]

6 hours ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

entrepreneurial coach and consultant

<deleted>

[recom273]

27 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

All of that can be done from a good laptop.  Easy.  Which is what the digital nomads I've seen do.

Oh really? 
 

it’s also a really <deleted> life .. living out of a bag, at 50+
 

I know a few people who are successful nomads, true nomads, and I also know young guys who can sit on a 100B plastic chair all day, squinting at a laptop screen with nothing more than a smile, that’s not me .. a lot just burn out, one had back surgery and also a lot of nomads enjoy very little success at all. A lot manage to eek out their savings for a year or so then go back to living in mums backroom. I don’t disagree that you have met some great nomads , but everyone’s successful aren’t they? no one’s ever going to say they are <deleted> are they? 

Edited December 5, 2021 by recom273