22 hours ago, placeholder said:

John Oliver once addressed this issue. He assembled a group of 100 people and had them wear lab coats. So he had 3 deniers dressed in lab coats on one side and 97 proponents on the other. The point being, of course, that giving equal time to such an extreme minority viewpoint, is, in effect, to make it seem like there is a significant divide in the climatological community. There isn't. in fact, the latest peer-reviewed study of climatological reports shows that over 99.9% of all climatological research that address human-caused climate change, either accepts it as being a fact or provides new evidence to support it.

More than 99.9% of studies agree: Humans caused climate change

More than 99.9% of peer-reviewed scientific papers agree that climate change is mainly caused by humans, according to a new survey of 88,125 climate-related studies.

The research updates a similar 2013 paper revealing that 97% of studies published between 1991 and 2012 supported the idea that human activities are altering Earth’s climate. The current survey examines the literature published from 2012 to November 2020 to explore whether the consensus has changed.

https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2021/10/more-999-studies-agree-humans-caused-climate-change

Greater than 99% consensus on human caused climate change in the peer-reviewed scientific literature

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ac2966

If John Oliver were to repeat that bit today he would need to have over 999 proponents against just 1 denier!

As for getting banned, I suspect that you weren't citing actual climatologists but dubious characters from other fields who weighed in on the questions. Why don't you PM me the names of these person?

 

 

I was referring to Covid in my post, but the following rule of thumb is broadly applicable: if a person is publicly attacked without being given the opportunity to publicly retort, then the said attack has no value.

Also been doing my own research since day 1 of being a paying consumer, 50+ years.  

From thrifty consumer, to self diagnosis / prescribing (knowing my limitations) for my healthcare, staying very healthy, investing (quite successfully), with a few oops along the way of course, as always a learning process.

 

Enjoyed being the dumbest person in the room, and all has paid off quite well.  No regrets.  Always enjoy advice, but follow Reagan's 'trust but verify' before committing myself to anything.

 

Don't trust Gov't or anyone selling or pushing their agenda, products.  Remember what I learned, before the elite took control of the information highway and all media outlets, to fear monger, control & sell everything I don't need.  Exercise 'buyer beware' with just about everything.

 

Won't cower & comply when common sense tells me the complete opposite.  Will follow or ignore laws, depending how it affects me.  Common sense has kept me alive & happy for 68 yrs, so I'll stick with that.

2 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

Really? An example or two would be great.

Here is a scholarly article discussing the relationship between climate sceptics, conspiracy theories and "doing your own research" I don't want to delve into the climate change debate as I see that some posts have been removed from this thread. However, there ids a broader discussion about legitimate climate scepticism and research methodologies discussed in the article including an example of an academic study published in a normally wack job website which has some credibility in terms of the research, leaving aside the climate questions. This excerpt outlines the issue and go to my point that not all the deniers are excluded, only those who peddle conspiracy theories. Please actually read and quote from the article if you wish to reply but leave out the climate change debate and focus on the research methodology aspect. While the article does focus on climate change it is a very good treatise on the nexus between science and conspiracy theories.
 

Quote

 

While these scientists do not necessarily doubt all aspects of climate science, issues of reliability of methodology and validity of conclusions in some areas remain, for them, alive.

Whether they are correct or not (and many have been responded to in the literature), they are at least working within the broad norms of academia. We might call these people “climate sceptics”.

 

https://theconversation.com/climate-sceptic-or-climate-denier-its-not-that-simple-and-heres-why-117913

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I do my own research all the time, I'm currently researching the effects of herbs on BPH.

My research works like this, I read forums where guys have a similar problem, I read the herbs they have tried, then I order the same supplements and try them myself.

 

Results so far,

Saw Palmetto = did nothing, Stinging Nettle root = seems to work.

I read that thread and actually liked some of posts if you care to look. The research you are doing there is not actually different to the research everyone else is doing. You are essentially researching other people's work and applying it to your own experience. That is not doing your research, you are learning from others and using that knowledge to extend your own knowledge, exactly the opposite to what those pundits here are suggesting which is to reject all mainstream scientific research while somehow accepting the fringe "enlightened" sources. Had you not done that research, "doing your own research" would have entailed trying out every herb know to man to determine whether or not they had any useful effect.

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Also been doing my own research since day 1 of being a paying consumer, 50+ years.  

From thrifty consumer, to self diagnosis / prescribing (knowing my limitations) for my healthcare, staying very healthy, investing (quite successfully), with a few oops along the way of course, as always a learning process.

 

Enjoyed being the dumbest person in the room, and all has paid off quite well.  No regrets.  Always enjoy advice, but follow Reagan's 'trust but verify' before committing myself to anything.

 

Don't trust Gov't or anyone selling or pushing their agenda, products.  Remember what I learned, before the elite took control of the information highway and all media outlets, to fear monger, control & sell everything I don't need.  Exercise 'buyer beware' with just about everything.

 

Won't cower & comply when common sense tells me the complete opposite.  Will follow or ignore laws, depending how it affects me.  Common sense has kept me alive & happy for 68 yrs, so I'll stick with that.

Reagan essentially stole his motto from the Royal Society, one of the pillars of scientific methodology and a fundamental tenet of mainstream science which is to publish verifiable data and repeatable experiments. Conspiracy theory adherents do neither. Ever.

50 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Conspiracy theory adherents ....

Sounds like a made up description from those that dislike different thoughts.  It's obviously a conspiracy is someone doesn't agree.????

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

Sounds like a made up description from those that dislike different thoughts.  It's obviously a conspiracy is someone doesn't agree.????

It's my own description. It's a conspiracy when the content is wack job and so implausible as to be unable to disprove and comes without any supporting evidence for the theory. It also alleges criminality by the perpetrators of the conspiracy. What it is NOT is simple disagreement. Of course, you knew that, you are just trolling.

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I do my own research all the time, I'm currently researching the effects of herbs on BPH.

My research works like this, I read forums where guys have a similar problem, I read the herbs they have tried, then I order the same supplements and try them myself.

 

Results so far,

Saw Palmetto = did nothing, Stinging Nettle root = seems to work.

Yup.  Same.  A long time ago I did my own research into Apple Cider Vinegar (Braggs brand) and found out that it was good for my skin.

 

I recently did my own research into the proper way to lay glue down hardwood floors and realized that I would most likely have problems in the future if I let the “professionals” continue with what they were doing instead of finishing the job myself.

 

I wonder where I can do research into why some people tend to start such argumentative threads such as this one and why people then seem to take it to such extremes with obvious straw man examples to try to prove a point.

7 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Yup.  Same.  A long time ago I did my own research into Apple Cider Vinegar (Braggs brand) and found out that it was good for my skin.

 

I recently did my own research into the proper way to lay glue down hardwood floors and realized that I would most likely have problems in the future if I let the “professionals” continue with what they were doing instead of finishing the job myself.

 

I wonder where I can do research into why some people tend to start such argumentative threads such as this one and why people then seem to take it to such extremes with obvious straw man examples to try to prove a point.

These are petty anecdotal attempts to diminish the value of reading any research other than your own. I suppose you'll be researching your own cure for covid, cancer and every other affliction as well? Advocating proper, educated research is not "straw man examples". It is not "to prove a point" other than that researching other peoples' work is the best thing you can do to improve your own knowledge. The alternative is ignorance, simple as that. Not flaming you but anybody who disparages conventional research. Nobody said you can't have a critical mind but to not do the research at all is inane.

19 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

These are petty anecdotal attempts to diminish the value of reading any research other than your own. I suppose you'll be researching your own cure for covid, cancer and every other affliction as well?

I did do my own completely original biology research for cloning plants (for a friend).

Ended up discovering a humidifier/mister with cuttings stuck in the top rooted every time in about a week. My pal ended up with more tomato plants than he could ever use.

 

9 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I did do my own completely original biology research for cloning plants (for a friend).

Ended up discovering a humidifier/mister with cuttings stuck in the top rooted every time in about a week. My pal ended up with more tomato plants than he could ever use.

One of my friends was doing the same research many years ago. It wound up being quite expensive but they forgot to look in the freezer. Anyway, let's try to stay on topic...

 

 

21 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

These are petty anecdotal attempts to diminish the value of reading any research other than your own. I suppose you'll be researching your own cure for covid, cancer and every other affliction as well? Advocating proper, educated research is not "straw man examples". It is not "to prove a point" other than that researching other peoples' work is the best thing you can do to improve your own knowledge. The alternative is ignorance, simple as that. Not flaming you but anybody who disparages conventional research. Nobody said you can't have a critical mind but to not do the research at all is inane.

Straw man examples are bringing up things such as “flat earth”, “moon landing” and other extreme positions (such as throwing out a ridiculous comment such as “I suppose you’ll be researching your own cure for Covid, cancer and every other affliction as well” in a feeble attempt to denigrate another poster)  when someone disagrees or has come to different conclusions with regard to whatever the hot topic de jour might be.  People always want to discount one persons research over their own.  
 

Who’s right, who’s wrong?

 

Don’t care.

1 minute ago, Airalee said:

Straw man examples are bringing up things such as “flat earth”, “moon landing” and other extreme positions (such as throwing out a ridiculous comment such as “I suppose you’ll be researching your own cure for Covid, cancer and every other affliction as well” in a feeble attempt to denigrate another poster)  when someone disagrees or has come to different conclusions with regard to whatever the hot topic de jour might be.  People always want to discount one persons research over their own.  
 

Who’s right, who’s wrong?

 

Don’t care.

well, for a start we do know that the flat earthers and moon landing deniers are wrong. If you don't care, don't disparage others who do care.

On 12/5/2021 at 6:07 PM, GrandPapillon said:

actually, it works on both sides, so nobody is right at the end, no matter the research ????

 

There will always be one side that possible is more right than the other! 

 

I believe it is more about choosing side on who you believe more, who will benefit you more, and what your social circle thinks. You have to choose between Fox News and New York times as one example. 

 

YouTubers who call themselves Dr but never was a Dr in the field they claim their expertise? Who do you believe? A fake Dr with false claims or science backed up by government? 

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

It's my own description. It's a conspiracy when the content is wack job and so implausible as to be unable to disprove and comes without any supporting evidence for the theory. It also alleges criminality by the perpetrators of the conspiracy. What it is NOT is simple disagreement. Of course, you knew that, you are just trolling.

It's only a conspiracy, till proven true at a later date, when more verified info is available.  

Then there is always the hushed silence from the previous conspiracy accusers.  

Go figure ... ????

Just now, KhunLA said:

It's only a conspiracy, till proven true at a later date, when more verified info is available.  

Then there is always the hushed silence from the previous conspiracy accusers.  

Go figure ... ????

Examples? 

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

Examples? 

Tons of them over the years here on Thaivisa.

 

Do your own research.

https://www.rd.com/list/conspiracy-theories-that-turned-out-to-be-true/ 

https://www.buzzworthy.com/15-conspiracies-that-turned-out-to-be-true/

Google is your friend

I have a few of my own, I know are true, and some current ones, I hope don't come true.  Which would take this thread further off topic than it already is.

23 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

well, for a start we do know that the flat earthers and moon landing deniers are wrong. If you don't care, don't disparage others who do care.

I'm doubtful about the moon landings.

I thought the scientific process involved achieving repeatable data/results?

(and not just by the company/scientist that did it first)

And nobody has managed to repeat the moon landings.

11 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

https://www.rd.com/list/conspiracy-theories-that-turned-out-to-be-true/ 

Does any of this proof seem surprising to you? 

 

John Lennon on a watch list ? Dalai Lama on the pay roll? 

 

Nothing of this is surprising and the time span? Chemicals in booze for industrial use? 

 

Government watch you? 

 

I believe and Facebook is made by CIA, I'm a conspiracy theorist? As many apps a well we use daily, or any other government as the new 90 days report. They can use it, and will use it when they feel necessary.

 

As well false claims, set ups to start a war by something seems like randomly happenings. The war coming in Ukraine (it is a war today) by Russian invasion, is provoked by Us and Nato! Is that a truth or conspiracy?

 

I'm more interested in a but more juicy stuff. No moon landing, flat Earth, Hillary Clinton an pedophile alien, and so on. Government use covid18 to control the population and it is a bigger plan behind it?

14 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I'm doubtful about the moon landings.

I thought the scientific process involved achieving repeatable data/results?

(and not just by the company/scientist that did it first)

And nobody has managed to repeat the moon landings.

Mars landing did not happen either? China just landed a probe on the moon?

14 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Does any of this proof seem surprising to you? 

 

John Lennon on a watch list ? Dalai Lama on the pay roll? 

 

Nothing of this is surprising and the time span? Chemicals in booze for industrial use? 

 

Government watch you? 

I'm sure at the time, it was all considered a 'conspiracy' by those not wanting to admit it.  And now, it seems anyone with common sense should have realized it .... and yet ... then, they didn't.

25 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I'm doubtful about the moon landings.

And nobody has managed to repeat the moon landings.

27 people have flown to the moon.
Apollo 8 & 10 & 13 went into lunar orbit.  #11, 12, 14, 15, 16 & 17 landed astronauts on the moon supported by 10s of thousands of engineers and managers. 

You put the nut into conspiracy nut. 
 

 

2 minutes ago, LarrySR said:

27 people have flown to the moon.
Apollo 8 & 10 & 13 went into lunar orbit.  #11, 12, 14, 15, 16 & 17 landed astronauts on the moon supported by 10s of thousands of engineers and managers. 

You put the nut into conspiracy nut. 

All US government military employee's who had signed non-disclosure agreements.

PS. 'allegedly' flown to the moon.

36 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I'm doubtful about the moon landings.

I thought the scientific process involved achieving repeatable data/results?

(and not just by the company/scientist that did it first)

And nobody has managed to repeat the moon landings.

Surprised this is still allowed to be viewed.  At 3 minutes .... oops

 

24 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I'm sure at the time, it was all considered a 'conspiracy' by those not wanting to admit it.  And now, it seems anyone with common sense should have realized it .... and yet ... then, they didn't.

It takes a bit understanding of how a state is constructed, kept together, motivate the people, keep the people occupied, give them the carrots to aim for, and make sure it doesnt gets out of their hands. Everything is easy as long the budgets goes up, and the economic goes up up up, but at once it reaches the top, no more to aim for, economic falls, then you will see what people are made of, and who is willing to follow, and who falls off. 

 

Know the history, and you will know the future. Nothing will change, it is just a loop and another loop with a start and an ending. 

 

But still, is Obama born in Usa or not? That is what we call distraction, covid19 is that a real thing or distraction? 

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Surprised this is still allowed to be viewed.  At 3 minutes .... oops

 

as the tread states, do your own research

 

It is completely taken out of context what you hear in the video. 

 

But quite interesting history behind the theory

 

https://science.thewire.in/the-sciences/apollo-11-van-allen-radiation-belts-translunar-injection/

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

That is what we call distraction, covid19 is that a real thing or distraction? 

Is it a pandemic ... what is the new definition of.  % of infected and or dying, and what # / % of, now qualifies as a pandemic.

 

Did they change that as they did vaccine to fit their agenda ?

 

Strangely, during this pandemic, I still only know 1 person, personally, that has had a confirmed case of covid.  Actually infected 1 year ago, and just found out last week, as he posted a photo on his FB.  Didn't even mention it when he was sick a year ago ... ????

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Is it a pandemic ... what is the new definition of.  % of infected and or dying, and what # / % of, now qualifies as a pandemic.

 

Did they change that as they did vaccine to fit their agenda ?

 

Strangely, during this pandemic, I still only know 1 person, personally, that has had a confirmed case of covid.  Actually infected 1 year ago, and just found out last week, as he posted a photo on his FB.  Didn't even mention it when he was sick a year ago ... ????

I know 4 personally who had covid19, and two of them hospitilized. One 36 year woman, and one 48 year old man. Then I know many more trough friends of friends and also many around in the village and the neighbour villages. 

 

I can promise you, those two who was hospitilized, have no doubt the covid is real, and the woman is long term affected by it, even one year later. All of my friends, and my friends friends is vaccineated now at leat twice, and many starts to get their booster, and no one of them have been sick or have any long term affect of the vaccine. Just a handfull is open about they do not believe in the vaccine, or of other reason do not want to take it. 

Sometimes a government will deliberately try to confuse the public to hide something and this method was probably used in ancient times; Something happens and the authorities agree that it was what the public saw it to be. But then a few hours later the authority retracts the earlier statement and replaces it with something that is obviously nothing like the original. Because of the large difference between the original and replacement some of the public remain staunch believers of the original, others start their own ideas and some accept what the authority says.

Now, you might have your own ideas about this example but I only cite it as being similar to the above, The so called Roswell Incident. (Actually the incident took place some 70+ miles from Roswell town, Arabela)

There was a crash; witness(es) spoke of the debris spread over a large area; military agrees it was a 'UFO'; next day military retracts and said it was a small balloon carrying some experimental device; then there is a build of military personnel and the restrictions that accompany such. 

Now the public ask the obvious questions, all this for a small weather balloon? The locals are familiar with these because they had often seen them in the past. Add to that, the balloon scientist say that there was nothing top secret about the balloons to warrant the large military presence. And that's it, a nice fertile ground for conspiracy theory and while people are busy doing that the military could be protecting something entirely different...or not?