The mRNA technology used for fighting COVID might also help fight HIV

[Virt]

Sorry if it's a bit of topic, but it's about mRNA technology that also are used in Pfizer and Modernas vaccines for COVID.

 

Research seems to indicate the same technique shows promising results for fighting HIV, which is very good news, since current HIV treatment costly.

Maybe it will become cheap and effective to fight HIV which is great news.

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01602-4

 

Personally i think the mRNA tech is the best thing since bacon.

 

In the next 10-20 years we will mostly likely see it used for a lot of other deadly diseases.

Certain types of cancer might be possible to treat with this technique.

 

Not going to dizz the current mRNA vaccine sceptics, but i think a lot of them are going to change their point of view on this technology, if it turns out to be able to treat HIV, cancer and other sorts of deadly diseases.

 

Maybe Malaria and dengue could be treated more effectively in the future with the mRNA tech?

Not sure if that's possible, but one can only hope.

[scubascuba3]

Buying PrEP is cheap in Thailand and elsewhere online

[KhunLA]

"Personally i think the mRNA tech is the best thing since bacon."

 

Think I'll wait for the 5 - 10 - 15 yr long term side effect studies to be completed before throwing my hat in that ring.

[Virt]

7 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Buying PrEP is cheap in Thailand and elsewhere online

As far as i know that's a pill that needs to be taken daily.

Wouldn't a shot maybe 2 times a year be better?

[Virt]

13 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

"Personally i think the mRNA tech is the best thing since bacon."

 

Think I'll wait for the 5 - 10 - 15 yr long term side effect studies to be completed before throwing my hat in that ring.

I don't know.

If it turns out i get cancer and it's possible to treat with mRNA technology in the future i wouldn't think one second.

Would you really wait in that situation?

[scubascuba3]

22 minutes ago, Virt said:

As far as i know that's a pill that needs to be taken daily.

Wouldn't a shot maybe 2 times a year be better?

Yes, but it's not available yet, maybe 1 year away if lucky, trials have been going well last i heard.

 

PrEP can be taken daily, on demand or even 4 days a week, depends on risk (4 days a week 92% effective, 7 days a week 98% effective, condoms in the 80s

Edited December 10, 2021 by scubascuba3

[peter zwart]

Not going to dizz the current mRNA vaccine sceptics, but i think a lot of them are going to change their point of view on this technology, if it turns out to be able to treat HIV, cancer and other sorts of deadly diseases.

 

I probably will. If we have a more long term track record i will be fine with it. And i think thats the main reason that many people still didnt take the vaccin.

[Boomer6969]

11 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

PrEP can be taken daily, on demand or even 4 days a week, depends on risk (4 days a week 92% effective, 7 days a week 98% effective, condoms in the 80s

PrEP is fine if your kidneys can take it. And younger guys may take it for years, until their GFR falls off the cliff.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Boomer6969

[scubascuba3]

57 minutes ago, Boomer6969 said:

PrEP is fine if your kidneys can take it. And younger guys may take it for years, until their GFR falls off the cliff.

i get my kidney function monitored and fine so far, been taking it for 4-5 years. How long for it to fall off a cliff and what age?

 

Hoping i can get the vaccine within a year or two so i can stop PrEP

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Virt said:

I don't know.

If it turns out i get cancer and it's possible to treat with mRNA technology in the future i wouldn't think one second.

Would you really wait in that situation?

Cancer is a whole different ball game.  Vaccines for, and treating a terminal disease is apples & oranges.  If offered a 'rushed to market' mRNA cancer vaccine, then NO thanks.

 

If diagnosed with something terminal, I'll be visiting the local witch doctor also.  May even break with Raëlism and turn Christian and start praying. ????

[Boomer6969]

29 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

i get my kidney function monitored and fine so far, been taking it for 4-5 years. How long for it to fall off a cliff and what age?

 

Hoping i can get the vaccine within a year or two so i can stop PrEP

If your kidney function (GFR) is monitored, you can chart it and see if it trends towards 60, but acute failure is hard to predict, as would be concomitant conditions that can precipitate it.

 

I am 7and my GFR  now fluctuating sometimes below 60, so I wouldn't take PrEP daily. I go on demand 2 or 3 times a year, when "at risk" in Bangkok. I not a dedicated "barebacker", so sometimes I can drop just after two or three days. 

 

Keep also in mind that we have Covid, and Thai doctors administer insanely high doses of antivirals to anyone who test positive. It could be that need for dialysis beds would increase in the next few years in Thailand, 5555.

[blackprince]

The world's first malaria vaccine was announced very recently, but it's not a 1st world disease, so no one cares.

 

"The World Health Organization's endorsement of the world’s first malaria vaccine marks a major advance against the mosquito-borne illness, which kills some 265,000 children in Africa annually."

 

https://www.voanews.com/a/new-malaria-vaccine-to-benefit-hundreds-of-thousands-of-african-children/6271043.html

 

HIV treatments are now extremely effective with new breakthroughs announced several times a year.

Edited December 10, 2021 by blackprince

[GroveHillWanderer]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

"Personally i think the mRNA tech is the best thing since bacon."

 

Think I'll wait for the 5 - 10 - 15 yr long term side effect studies to be completed before throwing my hat in that ring.

No vaccine has ever had long term side effects and there's no scientific rationale for thinking mRNA vaccines will be any different.

 

As one epidemiologist put it:

 

Quote

Vaccines are just designed to deliver a payload and then are quickly eliminated by the body,” Goepfert said. “This is particularly true of the mRNA vaccines. mRNA degrades incredibly rapidly. You wouldn’t expect any of these vaccines to have any long-term side effects. And in fact, this has never occurred with any vaccine."

Things to know about the long term side effects of Covid vaccines

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

"Personally i think the mRNA tech is the best thing since bacon."

 

Think I'll wait for the 5 - 10 - 15 yr long term side effect studies to be completed before throwing my hat in that ring.

No vaccine has ever resulted in the kind of latent effects you posit as a possibility for covid vaccines. Whereas we know several viral pathogens do.  In science, when someone proposes something like your invocation of possible long term effects, it's called in Science, a prior. And you would be challenged to show where's the evidence to support that prior. Apparently, your evidence would be anything is possible. Which is course, can apply tot any eventuality that doesn't violate the laws of nature. In other words, such a belief is unsupported by science and therefore irrational. But it is comparatively rational, based on current evidence, to posit possible latent effects of the covid virus. I can't think of any motivation, apart from fear, why someone (except for special cases) would irrationally choose not to be vaccinated.

Edited December 10, 2021 by placeholder

[scubascuba3]

31 minutes ago, Boomer6969 said:

If your kidney function (GFR) is monitored, you can chart it and see if it trends towards 60, but acute failure is hard to predict, as would be concomitant conditions that can precipitate it.

 

I am 7and my GFR  now fluctuating sometimes below 60, so I wouldn't take PrEP daily. I go on demand 2 or 3 times a year, when "at risk" in Bangkok. I not a dedicated "barebacker", so sometimes I can drop just after two or three days. 

 

Keep also in mind that we have Covid, and Thai doctors administer insanely high doses of antivirals to anyone who test positive. It could be that need for dialysis beds would increase in the next few years in Thailand, 5555.

My eGFR is 85ish +/- 1, i do track the trend but the Dr at Red Cross said it can fluctuate because of the amount of salt eaten, he seems to be looking for sudden drops. Anyway good info thanks

[blackprince]

MrNA technology has been in the pipeline for decades.

 

And Uğur Şahin and Özlem Türeci, the German-Turkish 'dream team' that developed the vaccine in their German company in Germany have been experts in the MrNA field for decades.

 

But I don't know why a few people here want to give KuhnLA such a hard time about it. His lifestyle is very socially distanced and he supports mask-wearing just like most of us do.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/10/ugur-sahin-and-ozlem-tureci-german-dream-team-behind-vaccine

[Scott]

10 hours ago, KhunLA said:

"Personally i think the mRNA tech is the best thing since bacon."

 

Think I'll wait for the 5 - 10 - 15 yr long term side effect studies to be completed before throwing my hat in that ring.

Well, the earliest trials with mRNA were in the 1990s.  That was 30 years ago.  No side effects so far.  

[Scott]

Baiting/bickering posts removed.  Keep it civil. 

 

[robblok]

7 hours ago, blackprince said:

MrNA technology has been in the pipeline for decades.

 

And Uğur Şahin and Özlem Türeci, the German-Turkish 'dream team' that developed the vaccine in their German company in Germany have been experts in the MrNA field for decades.

 

But I don't know why a few people here want to give KuhnLA such a hard time about it. His lifestyle is very socially distanced and he supports mask-wearing just like most of us do.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/10/ugur-sahin-and-ozlem-tureci-german-dream-team-behind-vaccine

Its more about raising doubts about things where there should be not many doubts. As others said mRNA has been around a while plus how its meant to work its highly unlikely to do any long term damage. 

 

What is worrying is that many antivaxers have his attitude spreading misinformation. Best to combat it when one can. You got crazies saying it alters your DNA and all sorts of things. So that people respond to this kind of misinformation is a good thing.

 

The world is overrun by these (better not say how id want to call them) who are a minor but really vocal group. 

 

A good friend of mine is also influenced by these people. He grew up among them. They were a bit of an odd bunch. He is a great guy asked me about vaccination and i told him id rather not discuss it with him as i knew what people are in his family. He still asked me and i gave him the I think the risk of side effects is less then the chance of getting problems with covid (true thing) and he made an appointment for a shot only to be convinced by his family not to do it. (i dont really get it as he does loads of alcohol and drugs (mainly soft sometimes a bit harder seems those risks are  higher then a vaccine). But did not mention that as i hate losing a friend that i known from young on about something like ths.

 

He is afraid to do his job as a taxi driver (so high risk many different people in a car for longer periods high risk). I just hope he does not get it. Plus the health system is overwhelmed by those antivaxers in my country and normal operations are postponed. So yea I too respond harshly against these kind of things. Because it damages many people.

 

 

[Scott]

HIV is a difficult virus to deal with.  Vaccines have not been effective, in part because of the extremely high rate of mutations.  Covid is relatively stable and in spite of what we may think, its mutation rate is low.  HIV has 60 main strains and thousands of mutations and those mutations can occur in a 24 hour replication cycle.  

 

The other factor is that HIV actually attacks the cells that fight infections, the CD4 cells.  There are host of problems in getting the immune system to kill the cells that are there to assist it in fighting pathogens.

 

The final big problem is that HIV is able to 'hide' in reservoirs within the body and start replication much later.  There have been a few cases where scientists thought they had gotten rid of the virus entirely only to have it re-emerge later.  I recall one case was a newborn who was born HIV+ he was treated with antivirals (and possibly some other medication) and had no trace of the virus.  Not long after, it was back.  

 

https://www.verywellhealth.com/hiv-vaccine-development-4057071

 

[KhunLA]

35 minutes ago, Scott said:

Well, the earliest trials with mRNA were in the 1990s.  That was 30 years ago.  No side effects so far.  

Actually discovered in the 60s, developed in the 70s, but used sparingly against Ebola.  

Only mass produced for the first time, thanks to C19.  So no real track record for side effects being used against a coronavirus.

 

I'll wait & see, at least 5 yrs after this present situation passes, if & when that happens.

 

That's if I'm still alive ... ????

[Scott]

11 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Actually discovered in the 60s, developed in the 70s, but used sparingly against Ebola.  

Only mass produced for the first time, thanks to C19.  So no real track record for side effects being used against a coronavirus.

 

I'll wait & see, at least 5 yrs after this present situation passes, if & when that happens.

 

That's if I'm still alive ... ????

If there were any long-term side effects, there would have been an indication by now.  There hasn't been and those experimental vaccines recipients have been followed.  

mRNA technology had a lot of applications (including producing stem cells).   It's also used in drug therapies. 

 

You are not alone in your hesitation to take it and since you are doing other things to mitigate possibly getting Covid, I certainly can respect your decision, although I do question your reason.  

 

[placeholder]

23 minutes ago, Scott said:

If there were any long-term side effects, there would have been an indication by now.  There hasn't been and those experimental vaccines recipients have been followed.  

mRNA technology had a lot of applications (including producing stem cells).   It's also used in drug therapies. 

 

You are not alone in your hesitation to take it and since you are doing other things to mitigate possibly getting Covid, I certainly can respect your decision, although I do question your reason.  

 

When Khunla is referring to is latent effects where the symptoms arise years after vaccinations. The reasoning is obviously defective. It's known that some viruses can cause latent, even fatal effects, years after an initial bout of the disease. Whereas, there are no known instances of vaccines causing latent effects.

If Khunla was referring to long term effects, then his fears would be even more obviously irrational since there is actually a thing called long-term covid that is far, far more common, than any rare long term effects from vaccinations.

 

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

When Khunla is referring to is latent effects where the symptoms arise years after vaccinations. The reasoning is obviously defective. It's known that some viruses can cause latent, even fatal effects, years after an initial bout of the disease. Whereas, there are no known instances of vaccines causing latent effects.

If Khunla was referring to long term effects, then his fears would be even more obviously irrational since there is actually a thing called long-term covid that is far, far more common, than any rare long term effects from vaccinations.

 

C19 has only been around for 2 years, the vaccines obviously less time, so obviously nobody knows what or if any long term effects the virus or the vaccine will have in the future.

 

 

[Scott]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

When Khunla is referring to is latent effects where the symptoms arise years after vaccinations. The reasoning is obviously defective. It's known that some viruses can cause latent, even fatal effects, years after an initial bout of the disease. Whereas, there are no known instances of vaccines causing latent effects.

If Khunla was referring to long term effects, then his fears would be even more obviously irrational since there is actually a thing called long-term covid that is far, far more common, than any rare long term effects from vaccinations.

 

I understand.  I suspect it doesn't much matter.  I know some people just don't want the vaccine.  I have an 80+ year old neighbor and shortly after the vaccines came out, he was in the common area (pool and mailboxes are there so a kind of meeting area).  A few people had gathered and asked about vaccines.  Many were having trouble getting an appointment and I offered to help, since I found a few tricks to get in.  Someone asked him if he wanted help getting an appointment. 

 

He replied, he didn't want any help.  A few people were explaining things to him about the vaccine, Covid, etc..  He said he didn't care if Jesus himself said to get the vaccine, he wasn't taking it.  And he hasn't.

 

He's a bit on the grumpy side and most everyone social distances from him anyway.  

 

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

C19 has only been around for 2 years, the vaccines obviously less time, so obviously nobody knows what or if any long term effects the virus or the vaccine will have in the future.

 

 

As pointed out elsewhere, your prior is that no one knows what effects the effects will have therefore there is the possibility that  may be deleterious ones. But priors need to be justified to show that there is some evidence to support this contention.. Since there is no history of vaccines resulting in latent effects, your justification is basically that anything is possible. 

In the contrary case when someone says that there is a rational basis to fear latent effects from covid, as supporting evidence they could point to the fact that other viruses have resulted in exactly that eventuality.

The odds are clearly in favor of latent effects  arising from a viral pathogen rather than from a vaccine.

[scubascuba3]

6 hours ago, Scott said:

I understand.  I suspect it doesn't much matter.  I know some people just don't want the vaccine.  I have an 80+ year old neighbor and shortly after the vaccines came out, he was in the common area (pool and mailboxes are there so a kind of meeting area).  A few people had gathered and asked about vaccines.  Many were having trouble getting an appointment and I offered to help, since I found a few tricks to get in.  Someone asked him if he wanted help getting an appointment. 

 

He replied, he didn't want any help.  A few people were explaining things to him about the vaccine, Covid, etc..  He said he didn't care if Jesus himself said to get the vaccine, he wasn't taking it.  And he hasn't.

 

He's a bit on the grumpy side and most everyone social distances from him anyway.  

 

Should have mentioned to him medical bills could be a million baht up that might have changed his mind

[Scott]

31 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Should have mentioned to him medical bills could be a million baht up that might have changed his mind

Thanks.  I think that particular person was more than ready to meet his maker!

 

[placeholder]

50 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Should have mentioned to him medical bills could be a million baht up that might have changed his mind

Well, I believe Scott lives in the USA. So Medicare should cover his bills. And I believe that the Federal Govt is still picking up the tab for everyone else. At least it was. Not sure if that's still the case.

[meechai]

9 hours ago, Scott said:

Well, the earliest trials with mRNA were in the 1990s.  That was 30 years ago.  No side effects so far.  

Yes but most animals do not live 30 years

 

I believe Human Trials started in 2010's didn't it?