If I live in Thailand, do I have to file UK Self Assessment?

[Gabe H Coud]

On 12/21/2021 at 5:54 AM, steve187 said:

where do you get the 18,500 tax free figure from

you get annual personal allowance of £12,500 (this year £12,570) plus tax free savings allowance £1,000 plus 'starting rate' ie if no other income then no tax on first  £5,000 of savings adds up to £18, 500 in those circumstances 

[Gabe H Coud]

Just now, Gabe H Coud said:

you get annual personal allowance of £12,500 (this year £12,570) plus tax free savings allowance £1,000 plus 'starting rate' ie if no other income then no tax on first  £5,000 of savings adds up to £18, 500 in those circumstances 

Sorry for bold text above ????

[Orinoco]

On 1/17/2022 at 7:56 PM, Gabe H Coud said:

you get annual personal allowance of £12,500 (this year £12,570) plus tax free savings allowance £1,000 plus 'starting rate' ie if no other income then no tax on first  £5,000 of savings adds up to £18, 500 in those circumstances 

Does all the above apply to a non uk resident ?

if so can you give me the uk government website link 

to that information

Just curious,  what is your savings vehicle you use for the above figures ? ISA or another product ?

and is that vehicle on main land uk.

Just trying to understand your post. 

Thanks.

Orinoco.

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Orinoco

[MartinL]

I've had this discussion with HMRC in the last few months.

 

They decided that, after some years of living in Thailand (HMRC aware) and NOT needing to do SA, it was now necessary. I wrote to them asking for the requirement to be removed, telling them about ALL my UK-derived income - which is only pensions plus a miniscule amount of bank interest - and that they were correctly recorded in my online Personal Tax Account.

 

Result - need for SA was removed. Tax still payable ???? ???? 

Edited January 20, 2022 by MartinL

[Mutt Daeng]

23 hours ago, MartinL said:

I've had this discussion with HMRC in the last few months.

 

They decided that, after some years of living in Thailand (HMRC aware) and NOT needing to do SA, it was now necessary. I wrote to them asking for the requirement to be removed, telling them about ALL my UK-derived income - which is only pensions plus a miniscule amount of bank interest - and that they were correctly recorded in my online Personal Tax Account.

 

Result - need for SA was removed. Tax still payable ???? ???? 

I was in a similar situation to @MartinL above. HMRC sent a SA every year to me here in Thailand as I was receiving rent from my UK house. When I sold the house, I contacted HMRC (via the app IIRC), informing them of all my income (pensions - which they already knew about) and asked them to de-register me from the SA system, which they did. No more SA for me.

[partington]

 

This applies to UK non-residents as well as residents. It is entirely independent of ISAs which are always tax free. (UK non-residents cannot open, or add money to, ISAs, though they can continue to hold tax-free any in existence before becoming non-resident).

 

If you are in the basic rate tax bracket you have an allowance of £1000 interest on savings, tax free.

 

Your earnings personal allowance (rent, salary, pensions etc) is £12,570.  If this is your only income then you are allowed £5000 interest from any UK based savings (banks, building societies, government bonds etc) on top of this. For each £1 you earn over £12,570 your £5000 interest allowance goes down by £1, so if you have £17,570 income you get £0 interest allowance.  

 

So you can earn £12,570 income, £1000 interest and £5000 interest on top of this tax -free.

Link here:

https://www.gov.uk/apply-tax-free-interest-on-savings

Edited January 21, 2022 by partington

[Mac Mickmanus]

If anyone needs help with filing their tax returns, I know a U.K tax agent who can file tax returns and sort out any problems , can even sort out problems about previously not filing tax returns 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/11/2021 at 4:09 AM, persimmon said:

I have heard that if you live in Thailand and notify HMRC , you don`t need to file self assessment , is that correct ?  If so , presumably income would not be subject to UK tax .

I never did, though they didn't know where I was as I didn't notify them.

 

 

[Orinoco]

1 hour ago, partington said:

 

This applies to UK non-residents as well as residents. It is entirely independent of ISAs which are always tax free. (UK non-residents cannot open, or add money to, ISAs, though they can continue to hold tax-free any in existence before becoming non-resident).

 

If you are in the basic rate tax bracket you have an allowance of £1000 interest on savings, tax free.

 

Your earnings personal allowance (rent, salary, pensions etc) is £12,570.  If this is your only income then you are allowed £5000 interest from any UK based savings (banks, building societies, government bonds etc) on top of this. For each £1 you earn over £12,570 your £5000 interest allowance goes down by £1, so if you have £17,570 income you get £0 interest allowance.  

 

So you can earn £12,570 income, £1000 interest and £5000 interest on top of this tax -free.

Link here:

https://www.gov.uk/apply-tax-free-interest-on-savings

Ok,thank you.

didn't know that.

 

[Gabe H Coud]

On 1/21/2022 at 8:54 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

If anyone needs help with filing their tax returns, I know a U.K tax agent who can file tax returns and sort out any problems , can even sort out problems about previously not filing tax returns 

Interesting, but can specifically they assist non residents? Most cannot for some reason...

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, Gabe H Coud said:

Interesting, but can specifically they assist non residents? Most cannot for some reason...

Yes, he can , not an issue

[Yewbzee]

On 12/15/2021 at 1:49 AM, Chris.B said:

What software and how much is it?

I use abc software, its 18 quid a year and is very easy to use. It handles foreign income, non residency etc.

[Neeranam]

On 12/14/2021 at 12:45 PM, DefaultName said:

Just to add, if you're under retirement age, remember to look into National Insurance, do you have enough years in for a full pension?  If not, it may be worth keeping contributions going to ensure that.  All on the Gov.uk website

I paid 10 years at once, 5 years ago.

Only 66,000 baht total, and now pay about 7,000 baht per year.

 

I left the UK in 1992 and never thought about paying tax there, as no income.

[sandyf]

On 12/11/2021 at 8:31 AM, hotandsticky said:

Your assumption is incorrect.

 

Many make the same mistake of thinking that you can emigrate to Thailand and you are exempt from UK tax  - you are not.

 

All income derived in the UK is subject to tax.

 

Then you have a personal tax allowance.

 

Tax is payable at the appropriate rate above that.

It is your assumption that is incorrect.

There was nothing said about being exempt from tax, the question was about filing a return.

Every year HMRC tell me I do not need to file a self assessment, but I do it anyway as I am always entitled to a refund.

[sandyf]

On 12/20/2021 at 11:38 AM, Gabe H Coud said:

i have started looking into residence test, looks complicated....but thanks for heads up 

The residence test has nothing to do with tax, that is in relation to residence based benefits.

You can live outside the UK and still be resident for tax purposes, this is what you need to clarify.

[sandyf]

On 1/21/2022 at 7:19 AM, Mutt Daeng said:

I was in a similar situation to @MartinL above. HMRC sent a SA every year to me here in Thailand as I was receiving rent from my UK house. When I sold the house, I contacted HMRC (via the app IIRC), informing them of all my income (pensions - which they already knew about) and asked them to de-register me from the SA system, which they did. No more SA for me.

I do my SA every year online, takes about 15 minutes and a deposit to my account a few days later.

They never get the numbers right but not worth the hassle of getting it corrected, just let it run and claim it back.

Puts to bed any theory that the DWP and HMRC are in cahoots.

[scubascuba3]

On 1/21/2022 at 7:19 AM, Mutt Daeng said:

I was in a similar situation to @MartinL above. HMRC sent a SA every year to me here in Thailand as I was receiving rent from my UK house. When I sold the house, I contacted HMRC (via the app IIRC), informing them of all my income (pensions - which they already knew about) and asked them to de-register me from the SA system, which they did. No more SA for me.

Did you pay tax on your house sale? presumably HMRC expected it after the sale?

[topt]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

The residence test has nothing to do with tax, that is in relation to residence based benefits.

I think you will find that is factually incorrect. In fact it can have a lot to do with tax depending on individual circumstances.

https://www.crunch.co.uk/knowledge-tax/am-i-a-uk-tax-resident

Quote

The Statutory Residence Test was introduced by HMRC to determine the tax residence status of individuals with connections to the UK. The Statutory Residence Test, while complex, is vital when it comes to understanding your UK tax status and could mean that your worldwide income is subject to UK tax

 

[JAS21]

On 12/15/2021 at 1:49 AM, Chris.B said:

What software and how much is it?

I have used Taxcalc for almost thirty years ..at that time it was free ... this year it was about £26. As my address with my UK Bank is registered  here,  I don't pay VAT provided the program is used in Thailand.

 

Years ago you couldn’t use the HMRC Program, but now you can ... no idea how easy it is to use. Taxcalc is very simple and their product support is good. 

 

This year, so I understand, you have until he end of February to file on line your 2020-2021 return without a penalty. I always file in the last few days of January

[sometimewoodworker]

On 1/27/2022 at 2:53 PM, Gabe H Coud said:

Interesting, but can specifically they assist non residents? Most cannot for some reason...

There are several, probably many, firms that will do tax returns for non residents, I have been using one for the last 30 years that I have been non resident. 
 

It is almost certainly the case that the people you have contacted can do returns, there is no reason for them to be unable, but chose not to do them. Quite possibly because they don’t want to educate themselves on all the non residential rules.

[Mutt Daeng]

11 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Did you pay tax on your house sale? presumably HMRC expected it after the sale?

No I didn't pay any capital gains tax. I included the sale of my house on my tax return for the year and included a detailed breakdown of the sale with  Private Residential Relief and Letting Relief applied. This breakdown showed the total gain was less than £5K and therefore within my personal CGT allowance, even though I made £100K profit from the sale.

[topt]

59 minutes ago, Mutt Daeng said:

No I didn't pay any capital gains tax. I included the sale of my house on my tax return for the year and included a detailed breakdown of the sale with  Private Residential Relief and Letting Relief applied. This breakdown showed the total gain was less than £5K and therefore within my personal CGT allowance, even though I made £100K profit from the sale.

Can I ask how long ago this was as I know the rules for non residents were changed in 2015 so if after that sounds like you had a great result.

[Cake Monster]

On 12/11/2021 at 7:48 PM, lungbing said:

As all my income is from pensions which are taxable at source in the UK,  HMRC kindly told me that so long as my circumstances do not change I no longer have to fill in a self-assessment return.

I also received the same kind of Letter.

However, they seem to not care that Rental Income upon a House ceased in 2013, and the House sold in 2014.

I am continually being bombarded with email telling me to declare income as a landlord / Capital gains Etc

I am currently in dispute with them over unpaid Tax they say I owe, but they have declined to even confirm receipt of my Letter, or to give to me the exact reasons for the Unpaid Tax.

They have also fined me for non return of Tax Forms despite the above mentioned Letter

[Mutt Daeng]

35 minutes ago, topt said:

Can I ask how long ago this was as I know the rules for non residents were changed in 2015 so if after that sounds like you had a great result.

It was 2014 when I sold the house which was prompted by the announcement of the rule changes that you mention.

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, topt said:

I think you will find that is factually incorrect. In fact it can have a lot to do with tax depending on individual circumstances.

https://www.crunch.co.uk/knowledge-tax/am-i-a-uk-tax-resident

 

Thanks and quite happy to stand corrected, I was always under the impression you had to claim non residency for tax purposes with HMRC.

The residence test came about after I left the UK and references to it have normally been in respect of using the NHS which I now consider a bit questionable.

The government website indicates it very much as a tax related exercise.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rdr3-statutory-residence-test-srt/guidance-note-for-statutory-residence-test-srt-rdr3