THE WEEK THAT WAS On racism and stereotyping in Thailand

[gejohesch]

8 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Yutthasak had previously said that he favored high spending tourists. Yes, no riff-raff are welcome these days as it’s “Value over Volume”.

 

I propose these are now to be called VoV tourists for short. 

At least (at last?), here is something useful I pick out of the initial text. I will remember the abbreviation, wondering if it applies to me (being fit and lean, relatively well off and not "Kee Neeow").

 

Also, (quote) "Another report suggested that “Same Sex Marriage” in Thailand remained years off. If it’s any consolation the sex in my marriage has been the same for decades." (unquote) is nicely put, thanks! ????

[RichardL]

5 hours ago, toofarnorth said:

How things have changed. Remember ' Love thy neighbour ' was it the '70s ?   He talked about the Nig Nog next door.

I tried a couple of weeks ago to watch an episode , Too embarrasing. Didn't last more than 5 mins. OFF !

The strange thing is that the whole point of the show was that is was highlighting the stupidity of racism, with the bigotted neighbour always shown up as ridiculous. The show just used terms that were commonly used back then, when they were seen as impolite rather than hateful.

[HAPPYNUFF]

I have no problem with being referred to  as "farang"  in Thailand.  How else  can they speak about us ,  "that   dumb sod"   "that   r/sole" ,,"that thing"????...      I read once,  and damn well forgot  to   mark it for  future use,  that the word  "farang"    came  from    the days of the  crusades,  when Europeans       headed east to  save the "holy land"   from the infidels. (?)

and it referred to    the thought  that these invaders  were  Frank, or Frankish,   as     a large part of western Europe then was called.,   the   term  gradually    altered to"  "farangsi",, "falang",  "farang"  and    different pronunciations.  It is/was in common use, in its various forms, throughout    the Asian area I    read...       Noting now Thais in particurlar   mispronounce many  English sounding words,, (mower si...,,motor cycle)     (satar...star) etc..       Frank/Frankish      easily  becomes  farang...  Who cares,  call me what you want, just dont call me late for breakfast, and its your buy, Somchai.

 

 

[Thingamabob]

7 hours ago, The Cipher said:

The number of overtly racist comments on this board is mind blowingly high. "The Russians" "The Indians "The Chinese", it's nuts.

 

But at the same time I don't think it's racism born of malice so much as it is an expression of frustration by older people who have seen people of other cultures advance in the world and feel that said advancement has come at their own expense.

 

Many older farang don't feel as important as they used to, and that loss in status has made them bitter. ????‍♂️

I refer to your final paragraph, which is nonsense. The loss of status has been created by the arrival in Thailand in recent years of farang who behave badly, speak badly, and dress badly. Cheap flights to blame. The Thais have reacted to this unfavourably, with good reason.

 

[chang1]

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Your proposition that every politician would respond to that question in the negative is flawed. Only racists would, Ask that question of a Singapore politician or any politician of a minority ethnic origin in any country.

Sorry for wording that poorly. 

I was more thinking of long established countries that have a majority of native citizens. Places like the US or New Zealand would be much more used to immigration as the majority are descended from immigrants. I would expect a correlation between how long a country has been established, how diverse the population is and how accepting the people are of immigrants. 

In my lifetime I have seen how immigration has changed my country (England). It now feels like a foreign country with different languages everywhere you go. Having to tip toe around incase we offend someone and constant positive racism with its token foreigner everywhere you look. 

If I  do ever retire to Thailand, I would never EXPECT my hosts to treat me special in any way. They can call me farang or pale face all day long. They have their culture and I chose to come. All I  ask is to treated fairly. I don't expect citizenship and would just leave if my hosts either wanted me to or I felt too uncomfortable. I don't have a problem with someone being racist to me. I either work with it or around it. 

As for the type of overt discrimination and violence directed at immigrants, that is disgusting and should be stood up to everytime. 

[chang1]

3 hours ago, sambum said:

I am surprised that nobody has picked up on "whince" (Should be "wince"!) P.S. Shhh - it's "liar"!)

Thanks. I  should have used quotation marks but lier is unforgivable even if it was about 4 in the morning. 

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

You're not even American, why would what happens in a country half the world away concern you?

I have a curious mind and an abiding interest in social issue. It's isn't about the specific symbols of racism but the racists they produce. Racism is the same everywhere and not different in Australia. They have the same psychology and the same motivations for being racist. Racism isn't local, it's a universal condition afflicting about half of the population. That's a clue to a wider problem which I won't elaborate upon here.

 

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Only offensive to the people who are aware of its significance . 

That would be anybody who doesn't live under a rock.

[ozimoron]

2 hours ago, bendejo said:

My attitude regarding who gets to call who a racist will be re-evaluated when Black celebrities on US television start getting cancelled for making remarks about White people. 

 

 

You don't understand what racism is.

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, allanos said:

 I almost never read the OP's posts as I find his style of self-taught "journalism" just doesn't resonate with me.  Today, on a whim, I thought the topic might be interesting, (it wasn't particularly), so I skimmed through it.

 

What I have found interesting, though, is the number of comments and observations it has engendered. It seems we all have a view on racism.

 

And this is precisely the point. Who decides for us what is racist? It is largely the left-wing thought police, who see racism lurking behind every metaphorical tree, and are quick to pounce, to call it out, and to virtue signal that there is not a racist bone in their bodies.

That's an easy question to answer. The person who is offended gets to decide what is offensive. Clearly not the person who doesn't think it is.

 

1 hour ago, allanos said:

 

On this forum, the usual suspects come to the fore, as is to be expected.

 

Racism is in the eye of the beholder!

Those who deny that something is racist simply aren't qualified to determine that it's not racist.

 

1 hour ago, allanos said:

 

One thing that is clear to me, more particularly in recent times, is that "racism", whatever that is, or bigotry, is a one-way street.  In other words, only white people can be racist. It seems that "people of colour" (for want of a better expression and not to cause affront to liberals) cannot be racist (even when they are)!

Another simple one. While a black person insulting a white person is offensive, obviously, it is not systemic racism as such. It is not the whites who have suffered racism in the same way as minorities have. Whites in the western world and the colonies have always been a privileged position and have never suffered the deprivation that minorities have at the hands of the majorities, usually white.

 

It is disingenuous not to recognise this when suggesting that racism should be a two way street and the notion that is should be in in itself racist. That some of the victims of this deprivation tend to insult the majority whites (even Aborigines in Australia do it), it is just insults. There is no material racism by blacks against whites in that they aren't deprived of jobs, education, voting rights, victims of slavery, genocide, laws restricting their lives and so on. While many of the apologists for racism correctly point out that many of these issue have been corrected in recent times, it is not true to say the problem has been fixed. There still remains systemic racism which affects the victims everyday lives and prospects. Demographic statistics bear this out. There is no systemic racism perpetrated by blacks against whites. Insults are the only cross whites have to bear.

 

1 hour ago, allanos said:

 

Western governments and the MSM, which is largely made up of the liberal left, have made it their self-appointed task to indoctrinate us in the evils (and supposed perils) of being a racist in the modern world. A show like "Love thy neighbour" or "Faulty Towers", especially with its episode about "ze Germans" and "not mentioning the War", could never see the light of day in the present era. Yet isn't it all about balance?

It's called education. The Germans episode isn't racist, it's nationalist. It is offensive on that level. The English are clearly the same race as the Germans. Finally, there has never been balance in racism. You are conflating mere insults with actual systemic racism.

 

1 hour ago, allanos said:

 

The world is being "zombified" before our very eyes, and no one seems capable of being able to stand up to it! 

There's nothing to stand up to. The zombies are those who refuse to wake up and realise that racism is something which needs to be fixed. It is not a figment of the past.

 

1 hour ago, allanos said:

 

I picked out some of the link from JT's post below, which, in my opinion is largely, if not completely, true.

 

Harvard government professor Harvey Mansfield, writing on the conservative Wall Street Journal op-ed page, Andrew McCarthy in National Review, and Heather Mac Donald of the Manhattan Institute, all have argued that systemic racism is nothing but a term designed to lay a guilt trip on white people and also explain away the continuing failure of Black people to take responsibility for their own inadequacies.

 

An utterly racist comment. The notion that black people have "inadequacies" compared to white people is about as racist and abhorrent as it gets.

 

1 hour ago, allanos said:

I, for one, would like to be shown where, exactly, "systemic" racism exists, because it seems to me that the reverse is true.

Wake up, that's what the "woke" culture means.

[vandeventer]

7 hours ago, wombat said:

Racism and stereotypes.....Golly gosh, do you mean racism as in 'you' are round eye farang and stereotypes as in sponsor me send money me?

I am not racist I am Australian,

I abuse everyone equally including myself 

If there was honesty in the world everyone would admit there's a little racism in all of us.

[Mac Mickmanus]

23 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

You don't understand what racism is.

Well do explain to him , what is racism ?

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Well do explain to him , what is racism ?

see my longer post just above in response to somebody else and stop trolling.

[Mac Mickmanus]

38 minutes ago, chang1 said:

Sorry for wording that poorly. 

I was more thinking of long established countries that have a majority of native citizens. Places like the US or New Zealand would be much more used to immigration as the majority are descended from immigrants. I would expect a correlation between how long a country has been established, how diverse the population is and how accepting the people are of immigrants. 

In my lifetime I have seen how immigration has changed my country (England). It now feels like a foreign country with different languages everywhere you go. Having to tip toe around incase we offend someone and constant positive racism with its token foreigner everywhere you look. 

If I  do ever retire to Thailand, I would never EXPECT my hosts to treat me special in any way. They can call me farang or pale face all day long. They have their culture and I chose to come. All I  ask is to treated fairly. I don't expect citizenship and would just leave if my hosts either wanted me to or I felt too uncomfortable. I don't have a problem with someone being racist to me. I either work with it or around it. 

As for the type of overt discrimination and violence directed at immigrants, that is disgusting and should be stood up to everytime. 

I trust that you wont be getting a Thai Wife and taking her back to the U.K

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

see my longer post just above in response to somebody else and stop trolling.

OK, I wont read your post above , I shall pass on it and not bother reading 

[Mac Mickmanus]

10 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

An utterly racist comment. The notion that black people have "inadequacies" compared to white people is about as racist and abhorrent as it gets.

 

 

He didn't say "compared to White people " though , you made that bit up yourself and added it on to turn in into a racial quote and then labeled it as being "abhorrent".

   You turned it into a racial quote yourself by adding a few more words to it .

   Its not a racial quote without the words that you added onto it 

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

He didn't say "compared to White people " though , you made that bit up yourself and added it on to turn in into a racial quote and then labeled it as being "abhorrent".

   You turned it into a racial quote yourself by adding a few more words to it .

   Its not a racial quote without the words that you added onto it 

You can't, by definition, say that a group of people have inadequacies unless there is a comparison. It is a relative, not absolute term. It is reasonable to conclude that the comparison is with the only possibility, white people since they are referenced in the same sentence. So, in fact the quote does explicitly compare blacks with whites and you are clutching at straws to defend the indefensible.  Even if you consider that the term is absolute and has no comparison then it is still racist and offensive.

 

What might those inadequacies be? Who doesn't have them (as a race). If everybody has inadequacies then what was the purpose to single out blacks?

Edited December 19, 2021 by ozimoron

[allanos]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

You can't, by definition, say that a group of people have inadequacies unless there is a comparison. It is a relative, not absolute term. It is reasonable to conclude that the comparison is with the only possibility, white people.

Why I would say that your overly-long response to my earlier post was cogent, and well-argued, it is totally wide of the mark and approached from a lefty-liberal, blinkered viewpoint. However, you are entitled to your own point of view and can't be faulted for that.

 

In stark contrast, your remark above is nonsensical, in that, objectively, a person can have inadequacies.  It does NOT mean however, that in the case of "blacks", they can only have inadequacies in comparison to whites.

 

Come down off your pedestal, or high horse, and try to reflect on your position a little. There are other viewpoints which bear contemplating, not only your own!

Edited December 19, 2021 by allanos
typo

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, allanos said:

Why I would say that your overly-long response to my earlier post was cogent, and well-argued, it is totally wide of the mark and approached from a lefty-liberal, blinkered viewpoint. However, you are entitled to your own point of view and can't be faulted for that.

 

In stark contrast, your remark above is nonsensical, in that, objectively, a person can have inadequacies.  It does NOT mean however, that in the case of "blacks", they can only have inadequacies in comparison to whites.

 

Come down off your pedestal, or high horse, and try to reflect on your position a little. There are other viewpoints which bear contemplating, not only your own!

What inadequacies might they be and what would be the purpose of that allegation were it not made in comparison with whites?

[Chris.B]

1 hour ago, Thingamabob said:

 by the arrival in Thailand in recent years of farang who behave badly, speak badly, and dress badly. Cheap flights to blame. 

 

Hey hey, hold on there matey!!

 

I am wearing a nice green vest today with CHANG BEER on the front at back. Its my best shirt. Whats wrong with that?  5555 

 

 

 

 

 

[fangless]

55 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

You don't understand what racism is.

Do you?

Does anyone?

[Mac Mickmanus]

14 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

You can't, by definition, say that a group of people have inadequacies unless there is a comparison. It is a relative, not absolute term. It is reasonable to conclude that the comparison is with the only possibility, white people since they are referenced in the same sentence. So, in fact the quote does explicitly compare blacks with whites and you are clutching at straws to defend the indefensible.  Even if you consider that the term is absolute and has no comparison then it is still racist and offensive.

 

What might those inadequacies be? Who doesn't have them (as a race). If everybody has inadequacies then what was the purpose to single out blacks?

He meant personally, on an individual basis .

For example ; If a Black guy fails his exams at school , don't start blaming racism, White people, the system ,Slavery or anything else .

  Realise that you failed the school exam because you didnt study hard enough , that is what he meant .

   Take responsibility for themselves , rather than blaming everyone else for their own failings .

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, fangless said:

Do you?

Does anyone?

Yes, I believe I have a very clear and detailed view of what racism is. I have also studied sociology at tertiary level.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

He meant personally, on an individual basis .

For example ; If a Black guy fails his exams at school , don't start blaming racism, White people, the system ,Slavery or anything else .

  Realise that you failed the school exam because you didnt study hard enough , that is what he meant .

   Take responsibility for themselves , rather than blaming everyone else for their own failings .

Do you deny that black people as a race have a systemic disadvantage when it comes to access to decent education and that their families are economically disadvantaged compared to whites which further limits educational achievement? Do you not believe that segregation and prejudice in the past is still having an effect today?

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Do you deny that black people as a race have a systemic disadvantage when it comes to access to decent education and that their families are economically disadvantaged compared to whites which further limits educational achievement? Do you not believe that segregation and prejudice in the past is still having an effect today?

I am from the U.K and we've never had racial segregation and Black kids get the same education and opportunities as White kids , some Black kids even get special treatment and job opportunities through required quotas  .

   Also Black families are not economically disadvantaged more so that any other racial group

[ozimoron]

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

I am from the U.K and we've never had racial segregation and Black kids get the same education and opportunities as White kids , some Black kids even get special treatment and job opportunities through required quotas  .

   Also Black families are not economically disadvantaged more so that any other racial group

They don't suffer prejudice and loss of job opportunities?

[Almer]

Merry Christmas Rooster

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

They don't suffer prejudice and loss of job opportunities?

No, they get jobs given to them based solely on their race .

White people lose job opportunities because Companies must employ a certain number of ethnic minorities in their workforce . 

  

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

No, they get jobs given to them based solely on their race .

White people lose job opportunities because Companies must employ a certain number of ethnic minorities in their workforce . 

  

The very reason those policies exist is because it's well established that the imbalance in opportunity actually exists.

[fangless]

35 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

White people lose job opportunities because Companies must employ a certain number of ethnic minorities in their workforce . 

  

The BBC are a prime example of the so called "positive discrimination" in the UK!

People should not mix up, as many on this thread are, the difference between perceived racialism by word or deed etc and racial inequality.   

They are two totally different subjects!

 

PS;  They may well be related in some countries but not in all!

Edited December 19, 2021 by fangless

[KannikaP]

8 hours ago, Stargeezr said:

Well I read somewhere that we are all born sinners, so I guess some of us who are seniors now

may also be racist.  When I was young there were many racist songs, and I knew the words to

a lot of them. 10 little *ndians.  Sq*as along the Yukon.  and lots more mostly bar songs. Over the years

I stopped singing them, and took them out of my song book. Thanks Rooster for another weekly update.

  Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and I hope that you get to drink the good stuff until 2 AM  if 

you are up that late on New Years Eve into New Years Day.

Is 'White Christmas' racist?   LOL