Siam Commercial Bank moving into Crypto, why aren't you?

[Neeranam]

6 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

1. You don't need a work permit to trade crypto. If that were the case local exchanges would require you to prove you have one when registering.

2. Yes, based on any profits made, actualised back into THB. 

3. See point #1

 

Right, I was not asked for my WP when I registered with Bitkub. 

[lkn]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I studied pure MathS at university actually, next. 

Seriously? Then surely you can back up your 15% inflation claim, or model inflow of new money in 2021 compared to 2018-20.

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, lkn said:

Seriously? Then surely you can back up your 15% inflation claim, or model inflow of new money in 2021 compared to 2018-20.

Listen to this guy, who actually IS a rocket scientist! 

 

 

[Stocky]

8 minutes ago, lkn said:

Anyway, I am waiting for your math that got to 15% inflation

Nigeria is currently at about 15%, appropriately a country synonymous with scams.

[lkn]

Just now, Neeranam said:

Listen to this guy, who actually IS a rocket scientist! 

You studied maths, you know that a proof is not just ten minutes of ramblings. As we are dealing with known numbers (measured CPI), this should be trivially simple, yet you keep directing me to watching Michael Saylor, even though you have admitted yourself in the past, that you don’t actually like this guy.

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, ThLT said:

Since you say you don't have a work permit, you are working illegally. 

And if you wouldn't be working, why would you have to pay taxes on your earnings?

 

 

I am a Naturalized Thai citizen, therefore don't need a WP.

Are you still on an education visa? How long have you been on it and are you working as an English teacher or not? I understand if you don't reply to this one ????

[Mr Meeseeks]

The value of Bitcoin derives (in part) from the following:

1. A trust-less system of value transfer - no need for third parties who could turn out to be bad actors, add additional costs or interfere with the transfer process.

2. Fast transaction times between people thousands of miles apart.

3. An immutable distributed ledger, which cannot be hacked as it is distributed and you can even validate your own transactions if you run a node.

4. The consensus algorithm, which means attacks on the network are disincentivized because of cost and all transactions are checked and verified. 

5. The ledger cannot be tampered with or altered see #4.

6. It is outwith governmental control, giving economic sovereignty to the individual.

7. It is hard money, because supply is limited and intrinsic value is derived through proof of work (computational power expended).

8. It allows you to be your own bank. 

9. You can easily check all transactions from a web browser.

10. It's pseudonymous, much like an IP address.

11. It'd democratic - any changes to the network have to be agreed among all parties.

 

Anything I missed? 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Mr Meeseeks

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, lkn said:

You studied maths, you know that a proof is not just ten minutes of ramblings. As we are dealing with known numbers (measured CPI), this should be trivially simple, yet you keep directing me to watching Michael Saylor, even though you have admitted yourself in the past, that you don’t actually like this guy.

Read between the lines. What country are you from? I must have missed this. 

[ThLT]

8 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Right, I was not asked for my WP when I registered with Bitkub. 

That's because Bitkup/crypto in Thailand is new and unregulated.

 

Should be required more KYC details like work permit soon. Similar to how the 15% is now being implemented in the upcoming months.

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by ThLT

[Mr Meeseeks]

3 minutes ago, ThLT said:

That's because Bitkup/crypto in Thailand is new and unregulated.

 

Should be required more KYC details like work permit soon. Similar to how the 15% is now being implemented in the upcoming months.

 

Then you'll also need a work permit to have a bank account in Thailand, which won't work.

 

The KYC for crypto exchanges falls under the same rules as stocks and derivatives trading, no work permit necessary so long as the person investing indicates that they understand the risks.

[ThLT]

9 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I am a Naturalized Thai citizen, therefore don't need a WP.

I'll call BS on that. Just like your 15% inflation claim. ????

20 minutes ago, you posted about visa agents.

[lkn]

9 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Anything I missed? 

Distinguishing between the network and the token. Much of what you mention are related to having an international payment network (like Wise, Western Union, SWIFT, etc.), and people pay to use those networks, even the bitcoin network, you pay to use that network, so its value can be measured in transaction fees collected.

 

To some degree, you can include the inflation caused by block rewards in calculating the value of the network.

 

But tokens themselves have zero value.

[Neeranam]

Just now, ThLT said:

I'll call BS on that. Just like your 15% inflation claim. ????

20 minutes ago, you posted about visa agents.

Avoiding the questions again, why do I fall for the bait.

[ThLT]

3 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

The KYC for crypto exchanges falls under the same rules as stocks and derivatives trading, no work permit necessary so long as the person investing indicates that they understand the risks.

Those are Thai laws you are describing?

If Bitkup requires to provide nationality, or further documents to have an account, then that's that for foreigners trading with Bitkup.

 

Have you ever tried getting a Thai tax number on a tourist visa? The 15% tax will soon be compulsory. How do you do that on a tourist visa?

[lkn]

12 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Read between the lines. What country are you from? I must have missed this. 

I’ll give you a clue: It is in Europe, and both 10-year and 20-year inflation measured up to 1st of January 2021 was below 1.5%.

 

What was your source for 15% inflation?

 

How did you arrive at the conclusion that most invested before 2021 when price increased by magnitudes in 2021?

[bubblegum]

Well first of all I don't trust anything Neeranam says. Second its down 25 % and third I don't need it.

[ThLT]

17 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

The value of Bitcoin derives (in part) from the following:

1. A trust-less system of value transfer - no need for third parties who could turn out to be bad actors, add additional costs or interfere with the transfer process.

2. Fast transaction times between people thousands of miles apart.

3. An immutable distributed ledger, which cannot be hacked as it is distributed and you can even validate your own transactions if you run a node.

4. The consensus algorithm, which means attacks on the network are disincentivized because of cost and all transactions are checked and verified. 

5. The ledger cannot be tampered with or altered see #4.

6. It is outwith governmental control, giving economic sovereignty to the individual.

7. It is hard money, because supply is limited and intrinsic value is derived through proof of work (computational power expended).

8. It allows you to be your own bank. 

9. You can easily check all transactions from a web browser.

10. It's pseudonymous, much like an IP address.

11. It'd democratic - any changes to the network have to be agreed among all parties.

 

Anything I missed? 

All good. But every single one of those points implies Bitcoin is used as a currency.

If you can't use it as currency (or barely), all those points mean nothing.

[Neeranam]

On 1/23/2022 at 6:42 PM, ThLT said:

I'll call BS on that. Just like your 15% inflation claim. ????
 

people who don't buy cryptos join threads about the best crypto to buy ) 

 

Actually, I could never have become a Thai citizen if it hadn't been for money I made with crypto.

 

 

[Pravda]

This is a pointless conversation. I don't understand why crypto pumpers just don't admit that coins are criminally manipulated and that would be the end of that.

 

Anyway, I have question. I know ETH may become deflationary asset in the future which may be a good long term hold if they don't get destroyed by competitors. I know Stellar recently also destroyed billions s of coins. Do DOT, ADA and other competing project follow the same model? ADA looks extremely diluted it's almost a joke.

 

 

[ThLT]

3 minutes ago, Pravda said:

I don't understand why crypto pumpers just don't admit that coins are criminally manipulated and that would be the end of that.

Any criticism of crypto = FUD, in the mind of crypto cultists.

FUD is a sin in the crypto cult, and in the world at large, and must be silenced and banished from thy precious cult.

[ThLT]

On 1/23/2022 at 7:10 PM, ThLT said:

Any criticism of crypto = FUD, in the mind of crypto cultists.

FUD is a sin in the crypto cult, and in the world at large, and must be silenced and banished from thy precious cult.

Exactly like I was saying. ????

 

[Walker88]

One elicits a lesser reaction drawing cartoons of a famous guy who died in 632AD than thinking that maybe cryptos are not the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

Personally, as one who was a hedge fund manager and was successful lucky enough to be able to retire before the age of 40, I might trade cryptos, but I have zero interest in putting a substantial portion of even discretionary capital into an instrument controlled by an anonymous few.

 

As I noted in an earlier post, these coins trade just like penny stocks, manipulated by the major holders (who have made enough off late arrivals so that they can throw around a bit of dosh to paint the tape). In the equity market, there are entities that can monitor manipulation and clamp down; in cryptos, there is no oversight, so the major holders can work together painting the tape, then hammer the bid side when it fills in. Since I am not in their clique, they aren't going to tell me when they are going to hammer the bid and cash out.

 

Crypto has joined that mix of speculative 'investments' that stand in contrast to the usual microeconomics, where higher prices usually lead to lesser demand. In Bubbles, higher prices DRAW IN more buyers, as 'the train is leaving the station, so better get on board'.

 

As far as being an inflation hedge, that is laughable. At the first sign of inflation (and central bank barking about handling the inflation), major cryptos tumbled 50%. While I've been away from my trading desk for a while, the definition I recall of an inflation hedge was NOT one that fell 50% when the years of easy money finally caught up to every day prices.

 

Also, an entity that is wildly energy intensive actually helps cause price inflation, as the mining and transaction energy costs for crypto have already had impact on the price of fossil fuels.

 

The cost-benefit to society of crypto is incredibly poor. How can the relatively tiny # of transactions using crypto justify the fact that just one single coin---btc---uses more energy than the combined energy of Google, Apple, Netflix and Amazon, which are entities that add a lot more value (and employment) to society than crypto? Crypto 'investors' ought to be ashamed. Swedes try to 'flight shame' people who take vacations to faraway lands, yet mining crypto uses much more energy than all the aircraft which take to the sky daily. Shameful!

 

Heck, I would feel less guilty filling the 1000 gallon tanks of this monster, with it's 3000 hp fuel-sucking engines, cruising the blue waters off Miami, then driving back to my 45,000 sq ft house in my Bugatti Chiron, than I would buying into the most energy wasteful 'store of value' in human history.

 

https://skaterpowerboats.com/60-2/

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Walker88

[ThLT]

7 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

One elicits a lesser reaction drawing cartoons of a famous guy who died in 632AD than thinking that maybe cryptos are not the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

Personally, as one who was a hedge fund manager and was successful lucky enough to be able to retire before the age of 40, I might trade cryptos, but I have zero interest in putting a substantial portion of even discretionary capital into an instrument controlled by an anonymous few.

 

As I noted in an earlier post, these coins trade just like penny stocks, manipulated by the major holders (who have made enough off late arrivals so that they can throw around a bit of dosh to paint the tape). In the equity market, there's entities that can monitor manipulation and clamp down; in cryptos, there is no oversight, so the major holders can work together painting the tape, then hammer the bid side when it fills in. Since I am not in their clique, they aren't going to tell me when they are going to hammer the bid and cash out.

 

Crypto has joined that mix of speculative 'investments' that stand in contrast to the usual microeconomics, where higher prices usually lead to lesser demand. In Bubbles, higher prices DRAW IN more buyers, as 'the train is leaving the station, so better get on board'.

 

As far as being an inflation hedge, that is laughable. At the first sign of inflation (and central bank barking about handling the inflation), major cryptos tumbled 50%. While I've been away from my trading desk for a while, the definition I recall of an inflation hedge was NOT one that fell 50% when the years of easy money finally caught up to every day prices.

 

Also, an entity that is wildly energy intensive actually helps cause price inflation, as the mining and transaction energy costs for crypto have already had impact on the price of fossil fuels.

 

The cost-benefit to society of crypto is incredibly poor. How can the relatively tiny # of transactions using crypto justify the fact that just one single coin---btc---uses more energy than the combined energy of Google, Apple, Netflix and Amazon, which are entities that add a lot more value (and employment) to society than crypto? Crypto 'investors' ought to be ashamed. Swedes try to 'flight shame' people who take vacations to faraway lands, yet mining crypto uses much more energy than all the aircraft which take to the sky daily. Shameful!

 

Heck, I would feel less guilty filling the 1000 gallon tanks of this monster, with it's 3000 hp fuel-sucking engines, cruising the blue waters off Miami, then driving back to my 45,000 sq ft house in my Bugatti Chiron, than I would buying into the most energy wasteful 'store of value' in human history.

 

https://skaterpowerboats.com/60-2/

Thanks for your insightful comment. Having someone else who actually understands economics (VS. an OP who essentially swing trades a bubble asset, and thinks inflation rate is at 15%) is much needed fresh air in this thread.

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by ThLT

[lkn]

8 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Swedes try to 'flight shame' people who take vacations to faraway lands, yet mining crypto uses much more energy than all the aircraft which take to the sky daily. Shameful!

In all fairness to Swedes, they are lobbying for banning proof-of-work mining in the European Union because of its environmental harm.

[EricTh]

For those who bought bitcoin at the peak price, they have lost part of their investment.

 

That's why it is a pyramid scam.

 

There's a meltdown now (I can't link to BP)

 

Bitcoin has now shed more than 50% from its record high in November while adding further momentum to the latest meltdown in cryptocurrencies.

 

Bitcoin’s decline from its peak has wiped out more than US$600 billion in market value, and over $1 trillion has been lost from the aggregate crypto market.

Edited January 23, 2022 by EricTh

[lkn]

32 minutes ago, Pravda said:

Anyway, I have question. I know ETH may become deflationary asset in the future which may be a good long term hold

It is somewhat meaningless to talk about deflationary for these utility tokens.

 

Imagine I mint 1,000 tokens and each poster in this thread buys up my supply for $10 each.

 

If you get a sad reaction to one of your posts, I destroy one of your tokens. So we have a deflationary economy, right? I.e. initially we had 1,000 tokens, but this number goes down.

 

Do you think any of you will actually end up making money from this scheme?

[Walker88]

12 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

One elicits a lesser reaction drawing cartoons of a famous guy who died in 632AD than thinking that maybe cryptos are not the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

 

 

That some institutions and major 'gurus' moved into crypto doesn't do anything for me. I recall many many major institutions and gurus were all on board Synthetic CDO Squareds with CDS Yield Enhancement-kickers in 2008. Those instruments took down Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers, and would have taken down Morgan Stanley, AIG, Merrill Lynch and perhaps even Goldman Sachs, if not for the bailout and 'quantitative easing'. In 1987 it was 'portfolio insurance'.....major institutions did not seem to consider that in a market decline, not everyone could hedge by shorting S&P futures, since there must be another side to the trade. In April 2000, many supposedly savvy investors were disabused of the notion that 'it isn't about profits anymore; it's about eyeballs'.

 

In the last year came the emergence of 'leveraged bets' in crypto, which has the same effect as a crypto being less than finite (think about it). That exacerbates declines, almost as if a crypto had a much higher float than structured.

 

Of course such tales are all old hat, having been put to fiction centuries before in the tale "The Emperor's New Clothes".

[fdsa]

  

1 hour ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

The value of Bitcoin derives (in part) from the following:

1. A trust-less system of value transfer - no need for third parties who could turn out to be bad actors, add additional costs or interfere with the transfer process.

2. Fast transaction times between people thousands of miles apart.

3. An immutable distributed ledger, which cannot be hacked as it is distributed and you can even validate your own transactions if you run a node.

4. The consensus algorithm, which means attacks on the network are disincentivized because of cost and all transactions are checked and verified. 

5. The ledger cannot be tampered with or altered see #4.

6. It is outwith governmental control, giving economic sovereignty to the individual.

7. It is hard money, because supply is limited and intrinsic value is derived through proof of work (computational power expended).

8. It allows you to be your own bank. 

9. You can easily check all transactions from a web browser.

10. It's pseudonymous, much like an IP address.

11. It'd democratic - any changes to the network have to be agreed among all parties.

 

Anything I missed?

12. The transactions are irreversible (after 2 network confirmations) so the malicious buyers could not scam you like they do on Ebay - claim that you've sold them a faulty item and get full moneyback while keeping the purchased item.

[fdsa]

22 minutes ago, lkn said:

If you get a sad reaction to one of your posts, I destroy one of your tokens. So we have a deflationary economy, right? I.e. initially we had 1,000 tokens, but this number goes down.

token burn works differently - you destroy _your_ tokens not somebody else's.

[lkn]

11 minutes ago, fdsa said:

12. The transactions are irreversible (after 2 network confirmations) so the malicious buyers could not scam you like they do on Ebay

uhm… so instead, sellers can scam you, and you have no recourse (unlike now, where you can issue a charge back)?