Sign up for U.S. Social Security at “my Social Security” or Manila office?

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I am not talking about snowbirds, ambiguous cases, or whatever it is that you're doing although there are of course guidelines to determine which country a person resides in as their primary residence.

The obvious point is that if a person actually does reside abroad, social security expects to know that fact in fact claimants are required to inform them in a timely manner.

How is this controversial?

I imagine the majority of US citizens living in Thailand don't claim Thailand as their primary residence. I'm a firm believer in keeping things simple. Why complicate things where it's not necessary.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, EVENKEEL said:

I imagine the majority of US citizens living in Thailand don't claim Thailand as their primary residence. I'm a firm believer in keeping things simple. Why complicate things where it's not necessary.

Do a poll.

I would guess about 75 percent of those that are really living here and are collecting SS benefits have informed SSA.

[shortstop2]

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

I imagine the majority of US citizens living in Thailand don't claim Thailand as their primary residence. I'm a firm believer in keeping things simple. Why complicate things where it's not necessary.

I claim Thailand as my primary residence so that I don't have to pay State tax.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, shortstop2 said:

I claim Thailand as my primary residence so that I don't have to pay State tax.

Right.

I was limiting this to what people tell the SSA but yes expats must decide how and why to present themselves residence wise to different entities.

When I left the US I filed a partial year state tax return to record that divorce and began filing IRS with my Thai address.

Many expats especially those from states without state income tax continue to file irs with a US address.

If you say that you live abroad to SSA then that has a large impact on your Medicare signup options as well.

Then there are banking, brokerage, credit card, and drivers license decisions as well. What about being called for jury duty? Real estate primary residence upon sale tax implications? Etc.

Many banks don't want to deal with expats so why tell them?

But again I was only talking about SSA.

A member here said keep it simple.

Well sorry but the implications of how expats declare their residences really aren't so simple.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Jingthing

[srowndedbyh2o]

19 hours ago, Jingthing said:

To avoid the annual SSA Form 7162 ("Proof of Life") letter.

I took a look at the SSA Form 7162. It looks to be a simple form that would take less than a minute to complete, then just mail it out. It certainly doesn’t appear to be something so difficult that someone would feel it necessary to avoid. Am I missing something?

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, srowndedbyh2o said:

I took a look at the SSA Form 7162. It looks to be a simple form that would take less than a minute to complete, then just mail it out. It certainly doesn’t appear to be something so difficult that someone would feel it necessary to avoid. Am I missing something?

Yes you are.

The letter often doesn't actually arrive in your mailbox. There is no online filing option like for FBAR but you can contact Manila FBU if you know to expect the letter and don't get it. A second letter attempt is made every year. Failure to file results in benefits being stopped. This requirement waived the last two years.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Jingthing

[cmarshall]

3 hours ago, shortstop2 said:

I claim Thailand as my primary residence so that I don't have to pay State tax.

If you check the tax domicile laws of your former state of residence, you will not find that declaring a foreign country as your primary residence has any bearing on your tax liability to the state.  Many states take into account various factors such as whether you own property, vote, maintain a driver's license, use professionals, etc. to determine whether taken together those factors indicate "an intention to return" to the state at some point in the future.  If so, you are on the hook for taxes, interest, and penalties.

[cmarshall]

31 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes you are.

The letter often doesn't actually arrive in your mailbox. 

But you don't have to wait for it to arrive in your mailbox.  You can just download it and mail it in.  

[srowndedbyh2o]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

If you say that you live abroad to SSA then that has a large impact on your Medicare signup options as well.

What options change? Even with a Thailand physical address on file with the SSA, a person can still choose to signup with Medicare Part A and Part B. Yes?

[srowndedbyh2o]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

The letter often doesn't actually arrive in your mailbox. There is no online filing option like for FBAR but you can contact Manila FBU if you know to expect the letter and don't get it. A second letter attempt is made every year. Failure to file results in benefits being stopped.

When I know I have important events throughout the year, I mark them in my calendar to remind me to take care of them.

[mtls2005]

39 minutes ago, srowndedbyh2o said:

When I know I have important events throughout the year, I mark them in my calendar to remind me to take care of them.

 

Brilliant.

 

Will be fashioning this unique observation into a motivational poster for the break room.

 

"Hang in there"

 

 

[EVENKEEL]

6 hours ago, shortstop2 said:

I claim Thailand as my primary residence so that I don't have to pay State tax.

Years ago I became a Nevada resident because of state tax. My job overseas allowed me to do so. Maintaining a NV drivers license and a car registered in NV becomes a headache when living in Thailand. Claiming Thailand as my primary residence would make life easier in some respects. 

[Jingthing]

5 hours ago, srowndedbyh2o said:

What options change? Even with a Thailand physical address on file with the SSA, a person can still choose to signup with Medicare Part A and Part B. Yes?

Yes.

But only those.

[Jingthing]

6 hours ago, cmarshall said:

But you don't have to wait for it to arrive in your mailbox.  You can just download it and mail it in.  

Well, its my impression that filing any other way than with the actual letter you're supposed to receive is non standard. The physical letters have bar codes. I recall people posting about what Manila told them when they didn't get the first letter. Wait until the second letter. So while yes there are non standard ways to file, filing with an original letter is preferable  and again there is no official online method like there is for FBAR.

[cmarshall]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Well, its my impression that filing any other way than with the actual letter you're supposed to receive is non standard. The physical letters have bar codes. I recall people posting about what Manila told them when they didn't get the first letter. Wait until the second letter. So while yes there are non standard ways to file, filing with an original letter is preferable  and again there is no official online method like there is for FBAR.

I didn't know that.  By the time my benefits started the letters were suspended.

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Years ago I became a Nevada resident because of state tax. My job overseas allowed me to do so. Maintaining a NV drivers license and a car registered in NV becomes a headache when living in Thailand. Claiming Thailand as my primary residence would make life easier in some respects. 

Much harder now because of Covid.

[srowndedbyh2o]

5 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Brilliant.

 

Will be fashioning this unique observation into a motivational poster for the break room.

 

"Hang in there"

 

 

My style of sarcasm.

Yes, I know. Most don’t get it

[JimGant]

7 hours ago, srowndedbyh2o said:

I took a look at the SSA Form 7162. It looks to be a simple form that would take less than a minute to complete, then just mail it out. It certainly doesn’t appear to be something so difficult that someone would feel it necessary to avoid. Am I missing something?

Not notifying Manilla when I moved to Thailand on extended vacation, or forever, was just a simple case of not adding some additional bureacratic phone calls and correspondence -- and then have the MySSA account subject to restrictions (e.g., can't change direct deposit info). If it ain't broke, don't fiddle with it. I was already getting SS retirement, having it direct deposited in my US bank, and I already had a MySSA account. All's I needed to do was update my mailing address on MySSA, as they request you to do, so I just changed my US physical address, now sold, to my mail forwarding address. So, I remain contactable. Same address with the IRS, as they too allow mail forwarding addresses.

 

Of course I did this using my understanding of the law (which, of course, is not everybody's), namely, I was not required to notify the SSA of my move to Thailand, since such a move in no way affected my right to full retirement checks. I kind of looked at it as someone who retired, sold his house, moved into his RV, then spent his remaining years driving around Canada. What address, other than his mail forwarding address, is he going to provide the SSA?

 

The SSA makes their wording a bit cloudy about requiring notification of a foreign move. I'm sure this is intentional, as they do want to keep tabs on SS recipients living abroad (after the big scandal awhile back of all those Filipina wives living off their dead husbands' SS checks). So, I agree with the Form 7162 concept, but it's just not needed in my case, since the wife has to tell the Air Force when I die (to get her survivor benefit allowance), and they have to tell the SSA. Thus, I adhered to the spirit of Form 7162 without opening up myself to unnecessary further bureaucratic goat ropes and paperwork. As a poster has aleady said: Keep it simple.

[Jingthing]

When the proof of life letters resume whenever that is, this is how I would suggest dealing with not getting the first letter.

 

No first letter?

Do nothing.

 

No second letter?

Wait awhile to account for slow mail service.

 

Still no second letter?

 

Email Manilla FBU to report the problem.

 

They will reply with the current method for a non standard filing.

 

Do that.

 

Also by reporting the problem you will have a record of that.

 

Cheers

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Jingthing