Thai hotel threatens customer with ฿3m lawsuit over bad review

[Naampla]

oops!

[Artisi]

5 hours ago, darksidedog said:

6 out of 10 says not awful, but needs improvements. A good manager would apologise, rectify the problem and possibly offer a free or reduced stay in future.

Threatening unhappy customers is a sure fire way to generate a really bad reputation for yourself, and cost yourself way more customers in the long run, than one bad review could ever cause.

Face it seems is more important than logic and common sense, aided and abetted by the ludicrous defamation laws.

you have mentioned an intelligent approach - sorry wrong country for that type of thinking.. 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 minutes ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

See, this irritates me. Hotels are very good value in Thailand compared to much of the world and the margins are wafer thin. I read a lot of comments that guest are 'powerful' with pricing due to covid. Actually that's not really true and it discloses a fundamental misunderstanding of basic business practices. . . if a hotel is forced to sell room nights below their baseline costs for operating the rooms and all the associated services, the hotel might as well just close, which is what many have done.

If it would be that easy to just close a venue and save a lot of money and then just open it again then I am sure that  would happen.

But in reality people have to be paid, if people are fired then they have to get extra payments, etc.

And when everybody is gone what happens if i.e. they want to open again in 6 or 12 months? Hire new people, train them, etc.. That takes time. And when many other venues open at about the same time then there will be a lot of competition to get the good people.

Sometimes it is better to not close the business and lose money but be able to start again when the time is right.

[Flink]

2 hours ago, Cake Monster said:

Whilst I agree that the threat of being sued is Infantile to say the least, what is wrong with actually talking to the Hotel Management prior to your departure and pointing out that some things need attention.

Point out exactly what needs attention, and any good Management should listen to your constructive criticism, and actual thank you in order to improve their service to the customer.

Too many people hide behind a smart phone screen these days instead of actually manning up face to face.

Talking is good.

Fine in the west, but this is Thailand. It is considered in bad taste to point out someone's faults to them. Trying to get a Thai to accept they're in the wrong is like trying to put toothpaste back in the tube with a shovel. The only time you are allowed to point out a Thai person's faults is if you are a Thai Fortuner driver and they honk at you for endangering their lives.

[thailand49]

Thailand, a country who think it is a democracy with free speech but here is another example that it is far from.  Thailand, it is if you come bend over and take it up the behind without a lube and remember keep your mouth shut unless it is something nice!????

[Artisi]

23 minutes ago, Flink said:

Basil Fawlty would be rivaling Elon Musk in the wealth stakes if he'd opened Fawlty Towers in Thailand!

thought he had already done that - under various hotel names ..... 

[brucegoniners]

It's about time this law got revised.

 

So if you go to a lousy restaurant, a lousy hotel or a lousy massage place you can't say so? 

 

That's far from libel, it's often just the truth.

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

39 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

If it would be that easy to just close a venue and save a lot of money and then just open it again then I am sure that  would happen.

But in reality people have to be paid, if people are fired then they have to get extra payments, etc.

And when everybody is gone what happens if i.e. they want to open again in 6 or 12 months? Hire new people, train them, etc.. That takes time. And when many other venues open at about the same time then there will be a lot of competition to get the good people.

Sometimes it is better to not close the business and lose money but be able to start again when the time is right.

Actually this is precisely what we did. When the pandemic started we stayed open for around 6 months, skeleton staff, all of them with a wages haircut. After six months of that we just shut down completely because we were haemorrhaging money, mothballed over 200 rooms, shut down everything (the IT and WiFi systems alone use around 2 kilowatts for example), wrapped the entire place in plastic, drained the swimming pool (not a small undertaking). The only thing we kept running were the security cameras and just enough fibre optics to make them work.

 

A year later we re-opened, took on  a few of our old staff, a few new ones. We've had a 'relatively' busy new year and some interest from the civil service in using our meeting rooms. We're surviving, but we're a diverse company and this is not really on topic. . . I just want to comment on this absurd notion that you can now stay in 5-star luxury for 500 baht per night thanks to the pandemic. Hotels are a costly endeavour to operate and maintain. Further, certain services must be maintained in order to keep star ratings (bars, pools, meeting facilities) and hotel licencing rules (security cameras, fire equipment etc etc), it's VERY expensive to do that. You have to pay for that as a guest, even in these difficult times. If people can't understand that, try buying a car at below cost, or a pizza.

 

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Led Lolly Yellow Lolly

[Artisi]

5 hours ago, vaerehsu said:

What law are you talking about ?

 

To my understanding the Section 34 of the Constitution of Thailand protects the freedom of opinion.

 

"Section 34
A person shall enjoy the liberty to express opinions, make speeches, write, print, publicise and express by other means. The restriction of such liberty shall not be imposed, except by virtue of the provisions of law specifically enacted for the purpose of maintaining the security of the State, protecting the rights or liberties of other persons, maintaining public order or good morals, or protecting the health of the people.
Academic freedom shall be protected. However, the exercise of such freedom shall not be contrary to the duties of the Thai people or good morals, and shall respect and not obstruct the different views of another person."

 

Therefore a honest bad review is just a honest bad review and it looks to me it's protected by the law of Thailand.

 

see you are very well versed in Thai ways, give it a few more years and you might get it all together.... 

[Midwit]

5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

You think its good for any of us that 20% of Thailands GDP is devastated forcing millions into more severe financial desperation than they ever were ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And who devastated the industry?  Who went along with the policies that decimated it and continue to go along with it?  Call it victim blaming but at some point it’s true. If you keep getting beat up walking home and never change your route at what point to do get what you deserve?   

[JRG23]

6 hours ago, Geoffggi said:

It obviously is out of place in the modern world

Haha. Welcome to Thailand.

[Flink]

28 minutes ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

 

I know a thing or two about how these review systems work. Take Agoda for example, while all the reviews are genuine, the system is rigged in a way that it's very hard to score a hotel less than 6/10 unless your really trying to hurt them. If you have a 6/10 aggregated average on that site, you're a terrible hotel.

 

See, this kind of irritates me. Hotels are very good value in Thailand compared to much of the world and the margins are wafer thin. I read a lot of comments that guests are 'powerful' with pricing due to covid. Actually that's not really true and it discloses a fundamental misunderstanding of basic business practices. . . if a hotel is forced to sell room nights below their baseline costs for operating the rooms and all the associated services, the hotel might as well just close, which is what many have done.

 

 

 

Living in China I found that hotels could be extremely cheap yet clean and cmfortable, here, clean and comfortable (while cheap by western standards) is not going tobe AS cheap. In China you can get a good quality, clean, spacious and comfortable room at a hotel in a smaller city for 200 baht, IF you're Chinese. If you are a foreigner a similar hotel (you won't be able to stay in THAT hotel) will be 2300 baht. This may appear to match the Thai "Dual Pricing" ethos, however, the reason for the higher price is because hotels wishing to accept foreign customers have to have a special (and expensive) licence fromthe government and this is how the manage the cost of the licence. They DO  NOT, however, threaten you with court action if you criticise them in a review. Score one for Chinese hotels!

[rudi49jr]

What is worrying is that this was apparently an anonymous review. So how did the hotel track her down? Also, the review has been removed now, and she did not remove it. Some really dirty business is going on here. She should file a counter suit and sue the pants off of that fracking hotel, among other things for violating her privacy. 

[natway09]

If the rating & comments on a forum that the Hotel has asked for are & are honest & true, they have nothing to worry about no matter how bad.

It will cost them nothing if the above is the case & if the Hotel insists on taking to court they will end up paying court costs for wasting the courts time.

The Hotel is bluffing unless the comments are of a derogatory nature

[NicholasTH]

They just opened up to a lot more bad reviews 

[Guest Isaanlife]

Thai nastiness.

 

Instead of doing the right thing, blame it on the customer.

 

Honestly, this draconian law is more aligned to communism than democracy.

 

If the hotel does not want honest reviews, take the review portion of the website down.

 

The rest of the population will continue to get screwed every time a business is allowed to get away with it.

[tgw]

obviously, this hotel deserves to be trolled mercilessly.

 

BTW, don't hotel platforms that allow reviews include in their terms & conditions that hotels have to accept verified customer reviews made in good faith and that are not diffamatory or insulting ?

 

Tripadvisor is pretty bad because it allows so many fake reviews, but they can only be praised for posting this information on the that Koh Chang hotel's profile.

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by tgw

[tgw]

3 hours ago, youngster30uk said:

Gotta love this, read the last part, the truth is not a defense for private matters

 

Under Section 326 of the Thai Criminal Code, defamation is defined as whoever imputes anything about another person to a third person in a manner likely to impair the person’s reputation or place the person in contempt or hatred by others. When defamation is committed by publication or other media made visible by any means, the offender is liable for imprisonment for up to two years and a fine of up to 200,000 baht. If the person who is accused of defamation is able to prove that the statement is true, the person shall not be punished. But the truth is not a defense for private matters that is not a benefit to the public (Section 330).

the law is perfectly good ... now its enforcement on the other hand ...

[Kalasin Jo]

7 hours ago, darksidedog said:

6 out of 10 says not awful, but needs improvements. A good manager would apologise, rectify the problem and possibly offer a free or reduced stay in future.

Threatening unhappy customers is a sure fire way to generate a really bad reputation for yourself, and cost yourself way more customers in the long run, than one bad review could ever cause.

Face it seems is more important than logic and common sense, aided and abetted by the ludicrous defamation laws.

Face and loss of it is paramount in Thailand at all levels of society.

But before judging, what did this customer say? 6/10 means ok but nothing special. I've seen reviews that are nit picking and way beyond reasonable customer expectation for the price paid. Which hotel is taking this so seriously? I can't access the article.

[In Full Agreement]

 

 

The hotel assumes an awful lot of authority I think.   How do they go about assessing a 50K THB find for each day the customer fails to comply with their demands?

[thaibook]

7 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

“The customer then received a notice instructing her to remove the review from the website, pay compensation of ฿3 million and publish a public apology in five Thai-language newspapers for seven days. The hotel also threatened to charge her ฿50,000 a day if she fails to comply.

 

She sought advice from the lawyer, on a pro bono basis, about whether a lawsuit is possible when she had only written an honest review of the service and questioned whether her identity had been revealed to the hotel by the travel agency.”

 

Now there is a hotel that really doesn’t want negative publicity…the linked article also suggests that they had the review removed by the website it was posted on when the writer of it did not do so. 
 

I suspect their strategy of avoiding negative publicity is about to backfire spectacularly. 

Let us hope the website that is complicit also suffers

[OJAS]

"The customer then received a notice instructing her to remove the review from the website, pay compensation of ฿3 million and publish a public apology in five Thai-language newspapers for seven days. The hotel also threatened to charge her ฿50,000 a day if she fails to comply."

 

She can at least be thankful that this appears to be a civil - rather than a criminal - case. Otherwise she would almost certainly have found herself banged up in solitary confinement in the Nakhon Ratchasima Hilton for an exceedingly lengthy stretch!

 

That said, that fate would, of course, still await her if she were ever subsequently found in contempt of court as a result of not complying with the hotel's punitive demands.

[Nojohndoe]

Not again  surely ? 

The only remedy for this would be for  internet  based  platforms  removing  any capacity for  customer reviews

7 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

You think its good for any of us that 20% of Thailands GDP is devastated forcing millions into more severe financial desperation than they ever were ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alternatively is it  "good for any of  us" that the organization of society relies on an industry that  assumes an attitude of untouchibility while paying a pittance to those occupationally who enable it ? 

 

[DBath]

8 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Trip Advisor... 

 

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g580110-d594766-Reviews-Sea_View_Resort_Spa_Koh_Chang-Ko_Chang_Trat_Province.html

 

 

One hotel I will never ever visit on our trips to Koh Chang !!!.... 

 

 

In 2018 my wife and I went on our first vacation in Thailand, to Koh Chang. The food the friendliness and the atmosphere were such that we opted to return two years later. After retiring in Jan. 2020, we had planned to move to China in February 2020, then visit Koh Chang again in May of that year for vacation. I had already booked a pool villa at Seaview in late 2019, but then covid hit and they started canceling flights to China, so we decided, hey let's go to Thailand earlier than planned ride it out until China opens back up.

 

Since better deals on pool villas began to emerge, I ended up changing our reservation to Santhiya tree resort on Koh Chang, since we were now going to be staying there for the long haul. They initially had 45K baht/month rate there, including meals! The only thing better at Seaview would have been the ocean view.

 

During our stay Santhiya started to try and raise the price - more out of desperation than an increase in customers - so I started looking around and we scootered up to Seaview to sea (sic) what kind of deals they might offer us. While the pool villas were still overpriced for that time, they had some nice big ocean view rooms available that were within reason, but the day we inquired I got a bad vibe from the manager there and the place was pretty much deserted. It's a nice property set on the mountain/hillside with lots of great ocean views, but I'm really glad we didn't end up staying there after reading about them having the American dude arrested - though I think he was finally let off after promising the moon and the stars. As I recall, that guy was raked over the coals for being an ex-felon and such, not sure if that was true or if maybe there was reverse defamation involved.

 

We ended up staying 1.5 years in Thailand and most of that was during 'low covid', so we were very lucky and I'm thankful for our time there. We Moved to Spain in July of 2021 and covid is rampant here, but I'm still very glad we made the move - it's much more civilized here and this will be our permanent home. Thailand, while it may be great for some, was not our cup of tea.

Edited January 7, 2022 by DBath

[steven100]

5 hours ago, Smokey and the Bandit said:

Then the hotel could have offered a free weekend to the customer

sorry .... that costs money and Thais don't give anything free that costs them money.

[Dexxter]

6 hours ago, Bruno123 said:

Some free advertising for them: https://web.facebook.com/ozonehotelkhoayai/

The comments under that Facebook article are all negative. Plenty more people that the hotel can now sue.

What a crazy way to run a business.

[shdmn]

Terrible law that they should have gotten rid of a long time ago.  

[burner2014]

 

OZONE HOTEL KHAO YAI limited who can comment on this post.

 

They literally killed their business. No one really no one who is aware of this stuff will book there again ???? Hotels have to wake up there are competitors you can book ???? 

[michael888]

Ozone Hotel Khaoyai....wont be staying there, thanks

 

 

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[Dexxter]

5 hours ago, swm59nj said:

So I guess you have to give every establishment a positive review according to the law? Even If a person didn’t have a good experience? 

Next step... if you DON'T give a positive review and decide NOT to give any review, you will be sued. =D