ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[novacova]

10 minutes ago, transam said:

Well it is tiresome you running folk down for buying a BMW, why don't you just accept folk can buy what ever they like.

 

Folks tell me I should drive a nice car, my response: I’ll drive any car I damn well please just the same as them telling me to have a nice day, I’ll have any kind of day I damn well please. And if folks don’t like it then that’s none of my business now is it?

[transam]

Just now, novacova said:

Folks tell me I should drive a nice car, my response: I’ll drive any car I damn will please just the same as them telling me to have a nice day, I’ll have any kind of day I damn well please. And if folks don’t like it then that’s none of my business now is it?

Absolutely.......

[Gweiloman]

A well brought up child, with Thb 2.5 mio would have bought his parents a brand new million baht EV with all the safety features and latest tech and bought himself a fantastic Chinese made PHEV such as the Haval for 1.5 mio. But I guess for some, saying I drive an overpriced “premium“ continental car is more important. Maybe to compensate for childhood issues, riding in swift cars.

[JBChiangRai]

7 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

A well brought up child, with Thb 2.5 mio would have bought his parents a brand new million baht EV with all the safety features and latest tech and bought himself a fantastic Chinese made PHEV such as the Haval for 1.5 mio. But I guess for some, saying I drive an overpriced “premium“ continental car is more important. Maybe to compensate for childhood issues, riding in swift cars.

 

Nothing that a plethora of stupid emoji's can't fix.

[Andrew Dwyer]

13 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

A well brought up child, with Thb 2.5 mio would have bought his parents a brand new million baht EV with all the safety features and latest tech and bought himself a fantastic Chinese made PHEV such as the Haval for 1.5 mio. But I guess for some, saying I drive an overpriced “premium“ continental car is more important. Maybe to compensate for childhood issues, riding in swift cars.

Yup, could have at least bought a 4th cylinder for dad’s Celerio ( celery in Esperanto ).

[transam]

15 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

A well brought up child, with Thb 2.5 mio would have bought his parents a brand new million baht EV with all the safety features and latest tech and bought himself a fantastic Chinese made PHEV such as the Haval for 1.5 mio. But I guess for some, saying I drive an overpriced “premium“ continental car is more important. Maybe to compensate for childhood issues, riding in swift cars.

Oddly, that was mentioned, the EV thing, they laughed.................🤣

[josephbloggs]

EVs are just so boring, bland, no character.

 

905bhp. 0-100 in 2.7s. And it looked absolutely stunning in the flesh although I think would have been better in yellow.

 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

EVs are just so boring, bland, no character.

 

905bhp. 0-100 in 2.7s. And it looked absolutely stunning in the flesh although I think would have been better in yellow.

 

I doubt those numbers will be of any use on public roads......🤗

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

I doubt those numbers will be of any use on public roads......🤗

 

That's because you're not accustomed to fast cars.  Some people would use all of that power and yearn for more.

[JBChiangRai]

On 1/10/2022 at 7:46 AM, DUNROAMIN said:

Better off with a Hybrid in Thailand for now. Cant see the infrastructure here for another 10 years to support EVs.

 

This post didn't age well.  

[transam]

3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

That's because you're not accustomed to fast cars.  Some people would use all of that power and yearn for more.

700hp was enough in my fun car, but not very good for going shopping, but the sounds were fab.........😋

[richard_smith237]

28 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

31 minutes ago, transam said:

I doubt those numbers will be of any use on public roads......🤗

 

That's because you're not accustomed to fast cars.  Some people would use all of that power and yearn for more.

 

I think there's a reality to Trans' comment - its nice to have the 'grunt' but it gets to a point where that much acceleration is pointless on any public road... 

 

In our very average EV (0-100 in 6.1 seconds) the traction control came on today in the wet as the wife 'pulled away from the toll booth)...    OK, it was wet so of course there is a loss of traction. 

 

But when I've 'played' I can gun it, and then before I'm even joining the main expressway I'm slowing to merge with traffic. 

 

 

Its different using a car on a track of course - but who does that... Where is 0-100kmh in 3.5sec really of any value in the real world...  bragging rights, yup..  pulling away from a expressway toll booth, yep, for the first 2 seconds then its the brakes (and yep, thats fun - but really...   that'll get boring quickly).

 

 

 

 

[josephbloggs]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I think there's a reality to Trans' comment - its nice to have the 'grunt' but it gets to a point where that much acceleration is pointless on any public road... 

 

In our very average EV (0-100 in 6.1 seconds) the traction control came on today in the wet as the wife 'pulled away from the toll booth)...    OK, it was wet so of course there is a loss of traction. 

 

But when I've 'played' I can gun it, and then before I'm even joining the main expressway I'm slowing to merge with traffic. 

 

 

Its different using a car on a track of course - but who does that... Where is 0-100kmh in 3.5sec really of any value in the real world...  bragging rights, yup..  pulling away from a expressway toll booth, yep, for the first 2 sections then its the brakes (and yep, thats fun - but really...   that'll get boring quickly).

 

 

 

 

I don't think the thrill of gunning it with such incredible and instantaneous acceleration would ever get boring, even if it is momentary. Plenty of places to enjoy it, albeit it briefly. The fastest EV I have driven was 0-100kmh in 4.5s (I think) and it was intoxicating. Fastest ICE road car I have driven was 3.4s, also intoxicating......but different. I prefer the instant oomph of the EV.

[transam]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I think there's a reality to Trans' comment - its nice to have the 'grunt' but it gets to a point where that much acceleration is pointless on any public road... 

 

In our very average EV (0-100 in 6.1 seconds) the traction control came on today in the wet as the wife 'pulled away from the toll booth)...    OK, it was wet so of course there is a loss of traction. 

 

But when I've 'played' I can gun it, and then before I'm even joining the main expressway I'm slowing to merge with traffic. 

 

 

Its different using a car on a track of course - but who does that... Where is 0-100kmh in 3.5sec really of any value in the real world...  bragging rights, yup..  pulling away from a expressway toll booth, yep, for the first 2 sections then its the brakes (and yep, thats fun - but really...   that'll get boring quickly).

 

 

 

 

Yep...My fun car was just used for that, fun, spent most of its life in the garage waiting for me to reverse it out to go out for an adrenalin rush and music to the ears.......

 

Then back to the E-Class or Volvo Estate to relax, though that was back in Blighty..

 

Now I am confined to borrowing Mrs.T's "Latin for Swift" Suzuki in LOS.....................

[transam]

5 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

I don't think the thrill of gunning it with such incredible and instantaneous acceleration would ever get boring, even if it is momentary. Plenty of places to enjoy it, albeit it briefly. The fastest EV I have driven was 0-100kmh in 4.5s (I think) and it was intoxicating. Fastest ICE road car I have driven was 3.4s, also intoxicating......but different. I prefer the instant oomph of the EV.

I suppose that if you're deaf it doesn't matter......😋

[josephbloggs]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

I suppose that if you're deaf it doesn't matter......😋

Pardon?

[JBChiangRai]

I use all the power of my Seal Performance when overtaking in the dry, I could use a lot more power. 

 

The issue with high power is grip.  I drive slower than most in the wet, in the dry I will use all the performance in a straight line and some of it around bends.

 

The Seal is under-tyred, changing the weels for an 1" wider helped, but it's still under-tyred in the wet or on dusty surfaces.  A German performance EV's tyres are typically around a third wider at the rear to get the grip and are a lot safer in the wet.

 

At what point do we say there is too much power or you can't use it on the public highway?  A Seal with 530bhp? A lotus with 905bhp? A Bugatti Tourbillon or Rimac Nevera with 2,000 bhp?  It's down to the driver to judge when and how much power he can use.

 

I haven't heard anyone say you can't use the power of a Tesla Model S Plaid and I think that is around 1,100 or 1,200 bhp.

[Pib]

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

I use all the power of my Seal Performance when overtaking in the dry, I could use a lot more power. 

 

You saying you stomp the fuel pedal when overtaking/passing another vehicle?!  Why in the world do that?!   Kinda dangerous ain't it?

[Pib]

OK...OK....for those that are hardcore ICEV till you die, Royce Royce Thailand has the V12 car for you.

 

https://autolifethailand.tv/official-price-rolls-royce-cullinan-series-2/

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

You saying you stomp the fuel pedal when overtaking/passing another vehicle?!  Why in the world do that?!   Kinda dangerous ain't it?

Actually it’s the safest way.  You should keep the time you are overtaking to a minimum.

 

On the highway between chiangMai and Chiang Rai you may be doing 70 or 80 km an hour behind a long six wheel truck, the faster you can complete the maneuver the safer it is.

 

38 minutes ago, Pib said:

OK...OK....for those that are hardcore ICEV till you die, Royce Royce Thailand has the V12 car for you.

 

https://autolifethailand.tv/official-price-rolls-royce-cullinan-series-2/

 

 

 

I have had a few Rolls Royce’s in my time, here’s my first with a 31 year old JBChiangRai.

 

[Pib]

14 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Actually it’s the safest way.  You should keep the time you are overtaking to a minimum.

 

On the highway between chiangMai and Chiang Rai you may be doing 70 or 80 kg an hour behind a long six wheel truck, the faster you can complete the maneuver the safer it is.

 

 

I'm behind dirt trucks like below all the time in my driving in the western Bangkok and Nakorn Pathom area...plus all kinds of other big, long trucks.    Zipping around them in a safe and quick manner definitely does not require overtaking them at high acceleration where you may not have the best control of your vehicle.     My Atto has more than enough acceleration with moderate pressing of the fuel pedal to accomplish that.  Hech,  even a Neta V EV can easily zip around long trucks.

 

[Pib]

17 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I have had a few Rolls Royce’s in my time, here’s my first with a 31 year old JBChiangRai.

 

Very nice.

[JBChiangRai]

10 hours ago, Pib said:

 

I'm behind dirt trucks like below all the time in my driving in the western Bangkok and Nakorn Pathom area...plus all kinds of other big, long trucks.    Zipping around them in a safe and quick manner definitely does not require overtaking them at high acceleration where you may not have the best control of your vehicle.     My Atto has more than enough acceleration with moderate pressing of the fuel pedal to accomplish that.  Hech,  even a Neta V EV can easily zip around long trucks.

 

Whether you can overtake safely at all depends on several factors, is it a straight road? Any risk of traffic joining the road from a junction on the RHS? Road surface? How far away is any approaching traffic?

 

And does your car have the performance to execute the maneuver safely?

 

With approaching traffic the performance of your car is key to being able to execute the maneuver safely.

 

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this. I appreciate your point of view.

[KhunLA]

Global EV sales hit third consecutive record high

 

Dec 13 (Reuters) - Global sales of fully electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles rose for a seventh consecutive month in November, jumping 32% year on year for a third consecutive record high, data from market research firm Rho Motion showed on Friday.

 

China continued to lead sales growth, accounting for almost 70% of total EV sales in the month, while registrations in Europe showed a marginal decline.

 

WHY IT'S IMPORTANT

The electric car market is undergoing critical transformation as incremental demand and production in China threaten EV markets elsewhere. Europe, for instance, is struggling to contend with production costs, new emissions targets and the rising competition.

[JBChiangRai]

5 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Global EV sales hit third consecutive record high

 

Dec 13 (Reuters) - Global sales of fully electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles rose for a seventh consecutive month in November, jumping 32% year on year for a third consecutive record high, data from market research firm Rho Motion showed on Friday.

 

China continued to lead sales growth, accounting for almost 70% of total EV sales in the month, while registrations in Europe showed a marginal decline.

 

WHY IT'S IMPORTANT

The electric car market is undergoing critical transformation as incremental demand and production in China threaten EV markets elsewhere. Europe, for instance, is struggling to contend with production costs, new emissions targets and the rising competition.

 

 Cue Vinny!

[Captain Flack]

Some off topic posts and a post containing a personal attack has been removed.

[HighPriority]

On 12/13/2024 at 7:50 PM, JBChiangRai said:

I use all the power of my Seal Performance when overtaking in the dry, I could use a lot more power. 

 

The issue with high power is grip.  I drive slower than most in the wet, in the dry I will use all the performance in a straight line and some of it around bends.

 

The Seal is under-tyred, changing the weels for an 1" wider helped, but it's still under-tyred in the wet or on dusty surfaces.  A German performance EV's tyres are typically around a third wider at the rear to get the grip and are a lot safer in the wet.

 

At what point do we say there is too much power or you can't use it on the public highway?  A Seal with 530bhp? A lotus with 905bhp? A Bugatti Tourbillon or Rimac Nevera with 2,000 bhp?  It's down to the driver to judge when and how much power he can use.

 

I haven't heard anyone say you can't use the power of a Tesla Model S Plaid and I think that is around 1,100 or 1,200 bhp.

I think the point you are missing is that those “performance” vehicles you mention are not mass market production vehicles.

They come with premium pricing, so though there is no guarantee, anyone who can afford one will hopefully have the time and money to develop the skills to handle that power (wisdom however cannot be helped…)

Now think about our high performance Chinese ev’s and their drivers…

 

Lastly, I have mentioned this before and it may well be a “media” bias but e v e r y pic of an accident damaged Tesla I’ve seen, shows a tangled and torn lump of plastic and metal that I am usually unable to id as a brand and sometimes even as a vehicle…

 

How do you think Somchai will go when you throw him the fob to your ev ?

[JBChiangRai]

I think everybody has to start somewhere.  There is always your "first fast car".

 

It would be a mistake to think that fast EV's are not engineered for performance, they are a lot more than just a bigger motor.

 

I do agree putting Somchai or any other driver inexperienced with fast cars behind the wheel of a fast car is risky.  Hopefully, most have the sense to gradually become accustomed to the power and capabilities of their vehicle.

 

I would never let an inexperienced or young driver take out my car alone.  I let my daughters drive it, but if I had a son the same age who was anything like me in my youth, I certainly wouldn't let him drive it alone.

 

 

[HighPriority]

And I appreciate all of the above however the roads of the world are not autobahns and they contain all manner of unpredicables and at speed shiiite happens quickly, often exacerbated by disparity in speed.

I’ll disagree with you that anyone on a public road needs to be able to accelerate to 100kmh in 4seconds.

Racetracks are a one thing, if that’s your thing but public roads are different and need to accommodate different vehicles, skill sets and animals autonomously.

[JBChiangRai]

Being able to accelerate from 0 to 100 kmh is a capability that gives some indication of what else the car can do.

 

Using full power accelerating away from a standstill is completely different from using full power at 80 km an hour to overtake. In this latter situation, you could probably use a lot more power without any risk or it appearing overdramatic.

 

Drivers like power, it’s not a theory, it’s a fact.
 

Manufacturers are just catering to what the public want.