https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/prior-covid-infection-more-protective-than-vaccination-during-delta-surge-us-2022-01-19/

42 minutes ago, bangkokstick said:

Thank you, I had a good laugh !

And yes I confirm, I am too smart to get covid when millions of you have failed to even protect yourself for 2 years !

the only thing you were able to do is vaccination, so funny ! hahaha

 

 

The only plausible conclusion I can draw from your claim is that you are living under a rock. Permit me to doubt your intelligence had anything to do with not getting COVID, that really is a bridge too far.

Macron can hope to be Time Magazines "Man of the Year." Just like Hitler was in 1938.

1 hour ago, utalkin2me said:

 

You know a very interesting question that none of you have considered yet, is what if you are wrong. What if the vaccine ends up having very serious, long term effects. The exercise in answering that question is a good one, because then you can better understand why another (healthy) human being may not want to wake up one day with one of these effects. 

Sinovac, Sputnik, Sinopharm and AZ are all underpinned by technologies that have been around for over 70 years.

No-one looks for the long-term effects of vaccinations for typhoid, tetanus, hepatitis and polio anymore, because there aren't any. Same for flu shots.

Evidently, you are not a student of vaccine history.

7 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

At the end of any discussion like this, the last word always is and should be “each man decides for himself”. 
 

The real problem in this “debate” is that one set of people want to decide for another set what to do with their lives. 
 

As I keep saying, if you ain’t convinced by those words, you will never be. Because deciding on how to live one’s life should be left up to no one but the person in question. The fact that it is even discussed is a farce and indicative of where societies have headed. Societies’ collective heads have been jammed up a rectum.

Ever hear the saying " Your right to swing your fist ends where another person's nose begins"

So, no, you don't have an absolute right to make choices that can affect the health of others. And if a society chooses to make it illegal for you to increase your chances of being a disease spreader, there's nothing immoral about that at all.

 

On 1/18/2022 at 6:39 AM, cdemundo said:

Apparently some political leaders are looking to exploit bad feelings against the unvaccinated.

Thailand may not be exempt from this trend, we will see.

 

I don't think so. They are in the same camp as the survivalists (believers in Darwinism, and stable, intelligent folks) who are willing to take a small chance, in order to protect themselves, their families and society. Believing the YouTube nonsense, and utter fools like Rogan, is not particularly sane, nor is it sensible. Darwin seems to have been right. Some of us are better at surviving than others. 

7 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

I love how nobody brings up in these parts, there is not even a thread on it, that the cdc stated natural immunity was more effective that being vaxxed. And the cdc is a pro vax govt organization. That should really tip you off.  Not to mention this was “misinformation” about a week ago lol
 

Aren't you the party that claimed that vaccination is the cause of the rise of Omicron? Ya think the UK govt agrees with that? Why the sudden respect for their decisions?

6 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

 

I got some disturbing news for you. This thread is about covid vaccination.

Clearly the proof about Sweden is beyond you. As epidemiologists know, the most valid comparisions between populations are those that are most demographically similar. Sweden is extremely similar to its 3 Nordic neighbors, especially to Norway and Finland. (Denmark is more densely populated). When compared to its demographically similar neighbors, Sweden performed very poorly. What is so difficult to understand about that. Ya think the difference is due to the fact that the covid-19 virus respects borders and refused to cross over?

 

5 hours ago, placeholder said:

I got some disturbing news for you. This thread is about covid vaccination.

Clearly the proof about Sweden is beyond you. As epidemiologists know, the most valid comparisions between populations are those that are most demographically similar. Sweden is extremely similar to its 3 Nordic neighbors, especially to Norway and Finland. (Denmark is more densely populated). When compared to its demographically similar neighbors, Sweden performed very poorly. What is so difficult to understand about that. Ya think the difference is due to the fact that the covid-19 virus respects borders and refused to cross over?

 

 

No,I think in 10 years all the numbers are gonna shake out equally, just like I said from the start. And what do you know, the countries you mention are catching up to Sweden. I notice you don’t address the issue about all cause death rising in those other countries.

 

16 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

No,I think in 10 years all the numbers are gonna shake out equally, just like I said from the start. And what do you know, the countries you mention are catching up to Sweden. I notice you don’t address the issue about all cause death rising in those other countries.

Nothing sadder than someone using a future predictionas evidence to justify their arguments. Unless of course you have a functioning crystal ball or are a time traveller. Who's going to win the next World Cup?

5 minutes ago, utalkin2me said:

No,I think in 10 years all the numbers are gonna shake out equally, just like I said from the start. 

For that to be the case, you would have to be claiming that the vaccines have been ineffective in reducing mortality and serious illness. Maybe that's the case on some other planet. Not so much here on Planet Earth.

5 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

 

Don't worry about me i can use my brain and trust in science. You on the other hand have one thing going for you that is your preserverance unfortunately you apply it wrongly.

 

Now if you use that preserverance to really educate yourself and stop reading antivax nonsense you might actually one day be on par with normal people. 

 

We all had to learn to check data and think for ourselves in your case somewhere along the line it went wrong. But plenty of people have changed their minds and came out better. So who knows one day you might actually look back and understand how wrong you were. 

5 hours ago, Lacessit said:

You have as much chance of repealing the laws of probability as you have of overturning the laws of thermodynamics or nullifying gravity. Have at it.

It is not about you. It's about the selfish turds who won't get vaccinated and are 6 times more likely to tie up stretched hospital resources. Even politicians understand that, and they are not the sharpest tools in the drawer.

Fallacies arise from invalid assumptions. I am stating fact, sorry if that inconveniences you.

Please show me a credible link that demonstrates there is ANY age cohort where the PROBABILITY of a vaccinated person requiring hospitalisation is greater than someone who is unvaccinated.

The problem is when statistics are simplified to the point of becoming catchphrases (such as "most people in ICUs are not vaccinated") without stressing that external factors such as age or comorbities play a major role, then the perception of the reader/listener is influenced into thinking "unvaccinated = ICU" and that is just not factual, therefore the reasoning is faulty and at the end of the day it is just plain sophism. This article is a good example.

 

9 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

The problem is when statistics are simplified to the point of becoming catchphrases (such as "most people in ICUs are not vaccinated") without stressing that external factors such as age or comorbities play a major role, then the perception of the reader/listener is influenced into thinking "unvaccinated = ICU" and that is just not factual, therefore the reasoning is faulty and at the end of the day it is just plain sophism. This article is a good example.

 

The hole in your argument is seen when the rest of the information reveals the outcome for vaccinated v unvaccinated people who exhibit the same comorbidities.

 

 

 

 

Reported post and responses to it removed.

Here's an interesting article from a large American insurance company about death rates in the last year. Up 40% in 18 to 60 year old's. The funny thing is that they are not being classified as covid deaths! What's up with that? Just wondering.

 

https://www.thecentersquare.com/indiana/indiana-life-insurance-ceo-says-deaths-are-up-40-among-people-ages-18-64/article_71473b12-6b1e-11ec-8641-5b2c06725e2c.html

34 minutes ago, 300sd said:

Here's an interesting article from a large American insurance company about death rates in the last year. Up 40% in 18 to 60 year old's. The funny thing is that they are not being classified as covid deaths! What's up with that? Just wondering.

 

https://www.thecentersquare.com/indiana/indiana-life-insurance-ceo-says-deaths-are-up-40-among-people-ages-18-64/article_71473b12-6b1e-11ec-8641-5b2c06725e2c.html

Yes, what happened in the last couple of years which could have triggered such a massive death wave? I think I might have an idea, but I will keep it to myself.

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The hole in your argument is seen when the rest of the information reveals the outcome for vaccinated v unvaccinated people who exhibit the same comorbidities.

 

 

 

 

That does not change the validity of what I have demonstrated. The example article I posted opposes an overwhelming majority of unvaccinated people on the one hand and a minority of vaccinated people on the other hand, with no further details whatsoever and that is a deliberate misrepresentation of facts.

17 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Could you specify what further details you need, because to me that article completely torpedoes the arguments you have been making on this thread, and sends your rusty ship of beliefs to the bottom if probabilities are calculated.

Here's your T-shirt.

Not sure if you are a sophist or a paralogist. In any case I have made my point very clearly for other readers to appreciate, which is the main thing.

5 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

 

The real problem in this “debate” is that one set of people want to decide for another set what to do with their lives. 
 

 

No, the real problem is one of accepting responsibility for one's actions.

 

You don't want to be vaccinated? Fine by me. Just don't expect free treatment in the public hospitals you clog up.

 

Don't expect to be given equivalent privileges when attending a sporting event, or seeking to be employed in a profession where the vulnerable need protection.

 

The science is in. Unvaccinated people that get COVID will have a much longer infectious period than vaccinated people who get infected. Fact.

 

You are potential plague carriers, don't you get that? Why should you be accorded the same rights as people who have acted responsibly?

 

We live in what are called democracies. Anti-vaxxers are a minority. Under said systems, and most other forms of government, minorities don't get to call the shots.

Off-topic, troll, false, misleading posts and replies have been removed.  One member will not be joining the discussion further.

 

 

3 hours ago, catturd said:

An injection of something dangerous is my first guess.

And yet it's the unvaccinated who die at many times the rate of the vaccinated. Clearly it's more like a  non-injection is dangerous.

Perhaps weakly related to the topic but still relevant.

 

"Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything"

and

"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance."

George Bernard Shaw

18 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 

And yet it's the unvaccinated who die at many times the rate of the vaccinated. Clearly it's more like a  non-injection is dangerous.

30x in fact as latest UK ONS figures.

26 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

Perhaps weakly related to the topic but still relevant.

 

"Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything"

and

"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance."

George Bernard Shaw

Seem quite stupid sayings. Everybody “changes their mind”.

And “ false knowledge” is clearly not “knowledge” at all just false belief.

 

4 hours ago, 300sd said:

Here's an interesting article from a large American insurance company about death rates in the last year. Up 40% in 18 to 60 year old's. The funny thing is that they are not being classified as covid deaths! What's up with that? Just wondering.

 

https://www.thecentersquare.com/indiana/indiana-life-insurance-ceo-says-deaths-are-up-40-among-people-ages-18-64/article_71473b12-6b1e-11ec-8641-5b2c06725e2c.html

 

The article you cited gives a direct answer to the question you posed. But for some reason, you decided not to reference that explanation in your post above, instead preferring to make some kind of vague innuendo about COVID deaths.

 

Here's the explanation in the article you cited, and it's hardly new or exciting, and the same reality regarding COVID death counts has been recited many times before, to anyone paying attention:

 

"“What the data is showing to us is that the deaths that are being reported as COVID deaths greatly understate the actual death losses among working-age people from the pandemic. It may not all be COVID on their death certificate, but deaths are up just huge, huge numbers.”

 

Let me repeat the key point with my emphasis added:

 

"the deaths that are being reported as COVID deaths greatly understate the actual death losses among working-age people from the pandemic."

To all the pro-Covid shots who like to cite "the science" (as if that was a monolithic concept) to justify their choice, there are some very competent scientists such as Robert Malone, mRNA pionneer amongst other things, who are speaking against this. My choice not to get the jab was partly made based on his take on the issue.

13 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

Very entertaining fiction.  I do love the sincerity with which you claim to understand genetics and mutations.

Actually, he is pretty accurate description of selection.

Most people who post on here about evolution/mutation/selection muddle it up.

 

Selection acts upon the existing variation in a population.

The post is pretty accurate in describing that.

A series of off-topic posts debating obesity have been removed, along with a series of COVID and vaccine misinformation, trolling and flaming posts by several members who have earned suspensions.

 

The topic of the thread is:

 

The Silent, Vaccinated, Impatient Majority

 

14 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

At the end of any discussion like this, the last word always is and should be “each man decides for himself”. 
 

The real problem in this “debate” is that one set of people want to decide for another set what to do with their lives. 
 

As I keep saying, if you ain’t convinced by those words, you will never be. Because deciding on how to live one’s life should be left up to no one but the person in question. The fact that it is even discussed is a farce and indicative of where societies have headed. Societies’ collective heads have been jammed up a rectum. It was bad before Covid but resident Thai visa trolls prove the extra bad logic now. 

We live in a global society. If your actions have ZERO impact on me, then do what you want.  With vaccines, they have a direct impact.  Thus, the numerous vaccine mandates globally.

 

The set of people who want to decide for the other are medical and scientific professionals.  People we should all listen to.  Sadly, some get their info from social media.  And fall for it.