China-made diesel locomotives handed over to Thailand

[OJAS]

7 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

Why the blue & yellow paint scheme?

Obviously inspired by good old British Railways way back when in the UK, I think!????

 

 

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, daveAustin said:

Off topic, posit most ire is aimed at their disgusting gov and the racist abuse towards the Tibetans, Uighur, etc etc. Now that’s something worth being emotive about isn’t it?

Yes, certainly.  But it has nothing to do with trains.

[josephbloggs]

2 hours ago, steven100 said:

might have world class engineering & manufacturing but their QA/QC is up to s_hit , or hadn't you noticed !  ????

Lol ....

Nope.  QA/QC on low priced cr*p is poor, but that is why it is low priced cr*p.  Their QA/QC on highly engineered high priced items is good.  How many times has your iphone fallen apart?  How often do Burberry or Prada bags fall to pieces?  I drive a Volvo that was made in China and it hasn't fallen to pieces once in the three years I've had it!  Their Maglev has been running for over 20 years and hasn't fallen apart - I've been on it many times and travelling at 430km/h is pretty amazing.  The rest of their rail infrastructure is incredible too and doesn't fall to pieces.

My issue is that so many on this forum equate everything that China builds which the 100 baht cheap cr*p you can buy on Lazada - there is a distinction.  China currently leads the world on railways, like it or not.  The "if it's Chinese it will fall apart" comments are vaguely racist, boring, predictable, and not true.  Let's not forget bigots used to say the same about Japanese products, then Korean, now Chinese.

[bangon04]

9 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

They are pretty. Why the blue & yellow paint scheme? I also wonder if all 20 work.

perhaps they were going to be sold to Ukraine until Putin had a meeting with XI.

[bangon04]

4 hours ago, transam said:

If you saw the state of the trains that go from Ubon to BKK, you would think the Chinese gift were a WOW...The drivers will be very happy....????

"in a bid to achieve an even greater modernization of Thailand's railway system."   since the Imperial Japanese government donated so much .

[billd766]

9 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

and where is the money for installing those?

Disguised as tanks, submarines and 4 x F35 fighters.

[seedy]

5 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

  Their QA/QC on highly engineered high priced items is good. 

Yup - high quality Chinese engineered construction

 

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, seedy said:

Yup - high quality Chinese engineered construction

Well done, you found a picture of a bridge collapse from ten years ago.  That one was caused by the bridge operator allowing severely overloaded trucks to use it (way over design capacity).

How many US bridge collapses in the last ten years?  Many.  I remember one in Florida three years ago which killed several people.   And there was one in California a couple of years ago which collapsed due to an overloaded truck.

Not sure what your point is really.

[Albert Zweistein]

18 hours ago, sirineou said:

Actually these are electric. The diesels are only used to drive generators that provide the electric, As far as I know there are no commercially  viable, battery operated trains. 

No they are not electric but diesel electric. Makes no difference because they are polluting like diesel trains so no gain here.

You're right about the battery operated trains but in first world countries they use overhead supply lines.

[Albert Zweistein]

17 hours ago, seedy said:

Not surprised to see the EV Fanatics jump all over this.

As if overhead power lines get their 'juice' from fairy dust.

To further your education :

fanatic

1. A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause.

Once I had the pleasure to join the engineer of the train in his "cockpit". It was only a 10 minute ride and being halfway the engineer when the train had reach speed switched of power and the train reached its destination without traction.

Not only that, the engineer pointed me a gauge showing in the same time the train was producing electricity and delivering to the net so no fairy dust needed.

And no I am not an EV Fananatic.

[placeholder]

15 hours ago, steven100 said:

made in china ......    probably fall apart in 6 months ..     lol

 

China managed to successfully land a probe on Mars. How have the UK and the EU fared so far?

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Well done, you found a picture of a bridge collapse from ten years ago.  That one was caused by the bridge operator allowing severely overloaded trucks to use it (way over design capacity).

How many US bridge collapses in the last ten years?  Many.  I remember one in Florida three years ago which killed several people.   And there was one in California a couple of years ago which collapsed due to an overloaded truck.

Not sure what your point is really.

Actually another just collapsed in Pittsburgh just 8 days ago.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/28/us/pittsburgh-bridge-collapse/index.html

[sirineou]

5 hours ago, Albert Zweistein said:

No they are not electric but diesel electric. Makes no difference because they are polluting like diesel trains so no gain here.

You're right about the battery operated trains but in first world countries they use overhead supply lines.

A train who's propulsion  is provided by electric motors is an electric train.

  There two choices  in providing electricity to those electric motors. One is to have it transmitted to the electric train via overhead wires or a third rail, and the other is to have it  either stored or generated in board, both these options have their challenges.

Overhead transmission requires a certain amount of infustracture that  either topography and or a country's economy might not make it technically and economically viable.  For many countries at their particular level of economic development and topographical challenges such as Thailand, on board electrical generation is the best option.

  Several on board generation options have been considered, but given the possibility off a catastrophic accident as  it often happens with trains, diesel is so far the best option. 

Does Diesel pollute?

it does to an extend but not more than most of the pickup trucks all those in this forum that have an issue with this acquisition drive.  It is also worth to consider that remorse electric generation and transmission has a pollution component.    

I don't mean to be didactic, but  I hope the above explanation put's this issue to bed????  

[seedy]

6 hours ago, Albert Zweistein said:

And no I am not an EV Fananatic.

555

[Pattaya Spotter]

On 2/5/2022 at 6:58 AM, sirineou said:

Actually these are electric. The diesels are only used to drive generators that provide the electric, As far as I know there are no commercially  viable, battery operated trains. 

Poster couldn't figure out what "AC" meant.

[Moonlover]

On 2/5/2022 at 6:58 AM, sirineou said:

Actually these are electric. The diesels are only used to drive generators that provide the electric, As far as I know there are no commercially  viable, battery operated trains. 

Diesel/electric locomotives have been around for many years. I remember as a kid having a large cutaway diagram of the English Electric Deltic which first appeared in 1961 as the 'Class 55'. It is a very efficient way of transferring the energy from the rigidly mounted generator to the articulated bogies.

 

On 2/5/2022 at 7:07 AM, sirineou said:

Powerline delivery is  only a different mode of electric delivery. and requires a certain amount of ,infrastructure  with the associated maintenance and transmission loss problems.  that some might argue is more antiquated than  onboard  generation. 

I agree, electrification on much of Thailand's railways is not viable. Let's take the Bangkok-Udon Thani line. around 500kms, single track, narrow gauge and there are only 4 passenger trains each way per day (plus some freight trains)

 

The cost to electrify that line would be enormous, then there has to be the supply infrastructure to deliver the power which has to be 100% reliable of course. In Thailand? I was struggling to make toast this morning due to the low voltage!

 

I cannot see that there can possibly be an environmental or a cost benefit to such a project, just to run 8 trains per day.

[sirineou]

24 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Diesel/electric locomotives have been around for many years. I remember as a kid having a large cutaway diagram of the English Electric Deltic which first appeared in 1961 as the 'Class 55'. It is a very efficient way of transferring the energy from the rigidly mounted generator to the articulated bogies.

 

I agree, electrification on much of Thailand's railways is not viable. Let's take the Bangkok-Udon Thani line. around 500kms, single track, narrow gauge and there are only 4 passenger trains each way per day (plus some freight trains)

 

The cost to electrify that line would be enormous, then there has to be the supply infrastructure to deliver the power which has to be 100% reliable of course. In Thailand? I was struggling to make toast this morning due to the low voltage!

 

I cannot see that there can possibly be an environmental or a cost benefit to such a project, just to run 8 trains per day.

I could not have put it better. simple and to the point

[rickudon]

As the post above points out, electrifying a rail route doesn't make economic sense when you only have a few trains a day. Earlier a poster pointed out that only 40% of the rail lines in the UK have been electrified - BUT nearly all the South East services are electrified - because they carry a lot of passengers. Although hard to find the stats, 69% of UK TRAINS are electric - so the number of trains is a better indicator than the miles of track.

[VocalNeal]

I think UK passenger trains are electrified in conurbations, but diesel in the countryside.

 

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by VocalNeal

[Morakot]

On 2/4/2022 at 11:40 PM, sammieuk1 said:

Just when everyone else is going electric 20 dinosaur's arrive ????

Rail electrification has being going on for a century. 

[Saanim]

Interesting how such topic can bring so many comments within few hours. Wondering whether some of the posters ever have taken ride on a Thai train?

 

Although the locomotives by the kind Chinese might be of a second-hand origin, why not, better than the current ones.

 

To equip the existing lines by an overhead power line feeding? The existing lines are over 100 years old, with narrow 1,000 mm gauge laying on not very rigid foundation, not much improvements made in last 50 years. All of this has to be completely changed. And there are surely some plans for it. Perhaps we will see it in our next life.

 

Thailand was always crazy on development of automobiles with all the infrastructure needed for it. And all that by neglecting railways systems. Not surprising, hadn't been done so similarly in other developed world? (not so in Europe).     

 

      

[Morakot]

On 2/5/2022 at 2:50 AM, Mr Meeseeks said:

Interesting that they have painted these in the old British Rail Livery.

 

Indeed!

 

But the locomotive in the picture has been operating in Thailand for many years...

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/na_maew/22423398980

[josephbloggs]

13 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Interesting how such topic can bring so many comments within few hours. Wondering whether some of the posters ever have taken ride on a Thai train?

 

Although the locomotives by the kind Chinese might be of a second-hand origin, why not, better than the current ones.

 

To equip the existing lines by an overhead power line feeding? The existing lines are over 100 years old, with narrow 1,000 mm gauge laying on not very rigid foundation, not much improvements made in last 50 years. All of this has to be completely changed. And there are surely some plans for it. Perhaps we will see it in our next life.

 

Thailand was always crazy on development of automobiles with all the infrastructure needed for it. And all that by neglecting railways systems. Not surprising, hadn't been done so similarly in other developed world? (not so in Europe).     

 

      

Agree with you, but just to point out that these 50 locomotives are brand new, not second hand.  And replacing units that were built in the mid 60's is definitely a good thing.  But so many posters here only ever have negative things to say.

[josephbloggs]

13 minutes ago, Morakot said:

Indeed!

 

But the locomotive in the picture has been operating in Thailand for many years...

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/na_maew/22423398980

That is true.  Here are the actual units, taken from the first handover ceremony:
 

 

[spidermike007]

On 2/5/2022 at 9:50 AM, josephbloggs said:

 

Yawn.

CRRC is the world's largest train manufacturer.  They hardly make things out of scrap metal.

Take your anti Chinese racism elsewhere, it crops up in every thread of this kind and is extremely boring.

True. What the Chinese have done with rail is truly impressive. 23,000 KM of very high speed rail. However you feel about the CCP, it is the world's greatest rail system, by far. 

[josephbloggs]

14 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

True. What the Chinese have done with rail is truly impressive. 23,000 KM of very high speed rail. However you feel about the CCP, it is the world's greatest rail system, by far. 

Yes indeed, and actually closer to 40,000kms now.  An interesting read:

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/china-high-speed-rail-cmd/index.html

[Moonlover]

18 hours ago, bangon04 said:

perhaps they were going to be sold to Ukraine until Putin had a meeting with XI.

They could fit 2 of them side by side on Ukraine's broad gauge tracks. Their locomotives are monsters.

[Burma Bill]

On 2/5/2022 at 6:58 AM, sirineou said:

As far as I know there are no commercially  viable, battery operated trains. 

Not in Thailand, but in the UK, a two car battery driven train was introduced in April 1958 on the Deeside Line in Scotland between Aberdeen and Ballater. Many lead-acid batteries supplied the electricity and charging points were at both ends of the line. The service was withdrawn in 1966. (Wikipedia). In the photo, the batteries can be seen under each unit.

 

Today, the Japanese lead the world in battery/accumulator operated trains (Wikipedia):-

 

 

[Morakot]

2 hours ago, Saanim said:

Although the locomotives by the kind Chinese might be of a second-hand origin, why not, better than the current ones.

They are new and apparently have the following specification:

 

* Diesel-electric locomotives with German-made engines

* Axel load 16 tonnes

* TP [Automatic Train Protection] brake system

* Compatible European Train Control System (ETCS) level 1

 

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/in-focus/40011931

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by Morakot

[sirineou]

Very interesting!

I am sure , a bit ahead of their  times technologically, , which is why it only lasted two years but I am sure there is a place for it in certain short route applications. Now with wireless charging it might become more of a thing. For instance for a commuter line there might be a wireless charging pad under every  station , if a train spend 3 min in every station and there were 20 stations a one hr charging event can be achieved 

Or a quick  battery swap a la Nio EV system in China. at every  terminal.