Good Samaritans stop Pattaya transwoman stealing from German

[thaitom]

I am still undecided after reading from different sources including opinions from this forum as to how safe it is to vaccinate my 7 year old child.  Including reading from the CDC website on the safety and vaccine process . Then i read this from the CDC ….

“Before a vaccine is ever given to people, FDA oversees extensive lab testing of the vaccine that can take several years to make sure it is safe and effective. After the lab, testing in people begins, and it can take several more years before the clinical studies are complete and the vaccine is licensed.”

 

This is simply a untrue statement as far as this covid vaccine is concerned.

I am still needing convincing hopefully from other parents as to what is the right thing to do.  
 
Be safe (because im told it is) and vaccinate her or …….

 

[4MyEgo]

3 minutes ago, thaitom said:

I am still needing convincing hopefully from other parents as to what is the right thing to d

I too have a 7 year old and have in agreement with my wife decided not to vaccinate her thus far.

 

Do expect a volley of idiots here who think they know more than everyone else, keyboard warriors turned wannabe keyboard epidemiologists.

 

Keep up your research, as we have been doing, and as far as our research has found, the death rate amongst unvaccinated children 5-11 is super low, that said, the research we have seen suggest vaccination if the child has underlying conditions or has an immunocompromised immune system.

 

But each to their own decision making, no one has the right to call a parent a child abuser as has been stated here before on this forum.

 

There is no right or wrong with Omicron now in play, that said look at Denmark where there government listens to their health professionals and the government doesn't get involved, because politics has taken over everywhere else in my opinion.

 

As for the above, I have also decided not to get boosted at this point in time, now 5 months since my last dose, however will look at making it an annual event as I used to, i.e. unless a more deadly strain comes back, but as for now, from what my research has shown me, Omicron is another flu and unless one has underlying conditions, they really don't need a booster, but again, it is a personal choice and should have always been that way.

 

Should never have been about vaccinated and unvaccinated, but has always been the driving force of it all. 

[Nino3]

I won't tread through the details but my decision was to get my 10 yr old vaccinated. Two shots of Pfizer administered in the US. 

 

I polled many friends with kids, all had their own opinion and agenda. In the end, you need to convince yourself whether it is safe or unsafe.

 

 

 

 

[Jeffr2]

Worst place in the world to get advice like this is from social media, or friends.  I'd highly suggest you ask your child's doctor.

[Chomper Higgot]

There is no conflict between what the CDC statement says and the approval of the COVID vaccines.

 

That testing ‘can’ take several years is not testing takes several years.

 

 

The extract quoted by the OP is from a CDC page providing general vaccination information, specific COVID vaccination information is provided here:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/children-teens.html

 

 

Nevertheless, good luck with your choice.

 

 

[Jeffr2]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There is no conflict between what the CDC statement says and the approval of the COVID vaccines.

 

That testing ‘can’ take several years is not testing takes several years.

 

 

The extract quoted by the OP is from a CDC page providing general vaccination information, specific COVID vaccination information is provided here:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/children-teens.html

 

 

Nevertheless, good luck with your choice.

 

 

From that link:

As of mid-October 2021, children ages 5 through 11 years have experienced more than 8,300 COVID-19 related hospitalizations and nearly 100 deaths from COVID-19. In fact, COVID-19 ranks as one of the top 10 causes of death for children ages 5 through 11 years.

 

Children who get infected with COVID-19 can also develop serious complications like multisystem inflammatory syndrome (MIS-C)—a condition where different body parts become inflamed, including the heart, lungs, kidneys, brain, skin, eyes, or gastrointestinal organs. Since the pandemic began, more than 2,300 cases of MIS-C have been reported in children ages 5 through 11 years. Children with underlying medical conditions are more at risk for severe illness from COVID-19 compared with children without underlying medical conditions.

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

From that link:

As of mid-October 2021, children ages 5 through 11 years have experienced more than 8,300 COVID-19 related hospitalizations and nearly 100 deaths from COVID-19. In fact, COVID-19 ranks as one of the top 10 causes of death for children ages 5 through 11 years.

 

Children who get infected with COVID-19 can also develop serious complications like multisystem inflammatory syndrome (MIS-C)—a condition where different body parts become inflamed, including the heart, lungs, kidneys, brain, skin, eyes, or gastrointestinal organs. Since the pandemic began, more than 2,300 cases of MIS-C have been reported in children ages 5 through 11 years. Children with underlying medical conditions are more at risk for severe illness from COVID-19 compared with children without underlying medical conditions.

Let's put these figures in to the context of a country with a similar population such as the UK:

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathsinukforchildrenfromages0to19sincemarch2020

 

We can see that 6 children under 10 have died either with or from Covid.

 

It's likely that most or all these unfortunate kids had underlying health conditions.

 

Long covid would be another issue, as are uncommon adverse effects to the vaccine most often used.

 

(We also know that there were no fatalities in SA following the recent outbreak of Omicron.)

 

Healthy children, particularly younger ones, are not generally regarded as being at risk of serious illness or death from Covid.  I think this is a fair statement.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by mommysboy

[buick]

i help to support a 6 year old boy (thai).  not mine by blood and doesn't live with me.  his mother asked my opinion and i said vaccine not needed.  that was her thought also.  no underlying conditions.

 

on the topic of the UK, where are they on vaccination for young children ?  i saw this that covers 12-17, call those teens.  are children eligible for the vaccine in the UK ?

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccination-resources-for-children-and-young-people/covid-19-vaccination-a-guide-for-eligible-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-17

 

i also saw this.  so i guess some children are eligible:

Who is eligible?

Children aged five to 11 who are in a clinical risk group or who are a household contact of someone who is immunosuppressed are now eligible to receive a Covid jab.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/22/covid-vaccination-uk-children-what-approved

 

i got two pfizer doses in the US and got a moderna booster in thailand last week.

Edited February 6, 2022 by buick

[Jeffr2]

9 minutes ago, buick said:

i help to support a 6 year old boy (thai).  not mine by blood and doesn't live with me.  his mother asked my opinion and i said vaccine not needed.  that was her thought also.  no underlying conditions.

 

on the topic of the UK, where are they on vaccination for young children ?  i saw this that covers 12-17, call those teens.  are children eligible for the vaccine in the UK ?

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccination-resources-for-children-and-young-people/covid-19-vaccination-a-guide-for-eligible-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-17

 

i also saw this.  so i guess some children are eligible:

Who is eligible?

Children aged five to 11 who are in a clinical risk group or who are a household contact of someone who is immunosuppressed are now eligible to receive a Covid jab.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/22/covid-vaccination-uk-children-what-approved

 

i got two pfizer doses in the US and got a moderna booster in thailand last week.

With respect, I'd leave that decision to her family doctor.  Few of here on this forum are qualified to offer advice.  And if that child gets sick, you're going to feel pretty bad.

 

Plus, it's not just about protecting their health, it's about the health of others around them.

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

Let's put these figures in to the context of a country with a similar population such as the UK:

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathsinukforchildrenfromages0to19sincemarch2020

 

We can see that 6 children under 10 have died either with or from Covid.

 

It's likely that most or all these unfortunate kids had underlying health conditions.

 

Long covid would be another issue, as are uncommon adverse effects to the vaccine most often used.

 

(We also know that there were no fatalities in SA following the recent outbreak of Omicron.)

 

Healthy children, particularly younger ones, are not generally regarded as being at risk of serious illness or death from Covid.  I think this is a fair statement.

 

Again, it's not just about their health.  It's about the health of others around them. Like grandma and grandpa.  I'd rather not have to take this vaccine, but if we want this pandemic to end, more will need to be jabbed.  Children included.

[buick]

5 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

With respect, I'd leave that decision to her family doctor.  Few of here on this forum are qualified to offer advice.  And if that child gets sick, you're going to feel pretty bad.

 

Plus, it's not just about protecting their health, it's about the health of others around them.

the doctor part came in with regard to the 'no underlying conditions'.  beyond that, it is a personal choice.

[buick]

12 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Again, it's not just about their health.  It's about the health of others around them. Like grandma and grandpa.

that is just a popular narrative that people have learned and said over and over again.  it sounds good.

 

recently there was a czech folk singer who refused to get vaccinated.  her son and husband were vaccinated and got infected.  she decided not to isolate from them and get infected on purpose (and died !!).  so the people that were close to her got infected, even though they were vaxxed.  vaccination doesn't always block infection and transmission.  sometimes yes, sometimes no. 

Edited February 6, 2022 by buick

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, buick said:

that is just a popular narrative that people have learned and said over and over again.  it sounds good.

 

recently there was a czech folk singer who refused to get vaccinated.  her son and husband were vaccinated and got infected.  she decided not to isolate from them and get infected on purpose (and died !!).  so the people that were close to her got infected, even though they were vaxxed.  vaccination doesn't always block infection and transmission.  sometimes yes, sometimes no. 

But vaccination does, regardless of any other health consideration, dramatically reduce the probability of serious illness, hospitalization and death.

[mommysboy]

23 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

With respect, I'd leave that decision to her family doctor.  Few of here on this forum are qualified to offer advice.  And if that child gets sick, you're going to feel pretty bad.

 

Plus, it's not just about protecting their health, it's about the health of others around them.

I think medics are likely as confused on the subject as anyone else.

 

We're really looking at micro figures between the risks and benefits of being either vaccinated or unvaccinated in this age group, and then getting the whole issue out of proportion imo.  In reality it's a silly argument regarding mortality, but I would like to know the risks associated with more severe illness/long covid.

 

Also, Omicron is quite different from previous variants, being generally much milder.

 

Usually, it's possible to identify kids at most risk- namely those who tend to suffer more upper respiratory diseases.  It's a good idea to vaccinate them for all diseases, since it's usually a complex of disease and syndromes that is the biggest danger.

[mommysboy]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

But vaccination does, regardless of any other health consideration, dramatically reduce the probability of serious illness, hospitalization and death.

In adults yes, particularly older ones. But with children the probability is tiny and confined mainly to children with underlying conditions.

Edited February 6, 2022 by mommysboy

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

In adults yes.

In all vaccinated.

[VocalNeal]

Seems to me the "anti" brigade reference CDC and FDA whereas the "pro" brigade reference NHS. Read into that what you will.

 

Quote

Again, it's not just about their health. 

Surely that is the whole point.

 

with serious complications like multisystem inflammatory syndrome (MIS-C). Can anyone afford not to.

 

How many people with negative opinions here were vaccinated as children by caring parents?

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by VocalNeal

[Chomper Higgot]

30 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

In adults yes, particularly older ones. But with children the probability is tiny and confined mainly to children with underlying conditions.

Again you missed the point.

 

Reduced risk is reduced risk.

 

I’m not sure on what basis you claim a tiny probability confined to children with underlying conditions.

 

The long term impacts of COVID infection are revealing themselves but are not yet fully understood.

 

Why take the risk?

 

 

[Rimmer]

A conspiracy troll post and reply has been removed

[thaitom]

1 hour ago, VocalNeal said:

Seems to me the "anti" brigade reference CDC and FDA whereas the "pro" brigade reference NHS. Read into that what you will.

 

Surely that is the whole point.

 

with serious complications like multisystem inflammatory syndrome (MIS-C). Can anyone afford not to.

 

How many people with negative opinions here were vaccinated as children by caring parents?

 

I was as a child, and my daughter has all her inoculations, I have taken three covid vaccinations,  I am just concerned as any parent is about the doing the right thing health wise with these covid vaccines which are not going through the same years long testing as the other general vaccines.  I am leaning on waiting it out and seeing what reactions the other children may have from taking it and what other vaccine developments may be had in the near future.  

[mommysboy]

55 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Again you missed the point.

 

Reduced risk is reduced risk.

 

I’m not sure on what basis you claim a tiny probability confined to children with underlying conditions.

 

The long term impacts of COVID infection are revealing themselves but are not yet fully understood.

 

Why take the risk?

 

 

Well for me, as a 60 year old, there are compelling reasons to have the covid vaccine, even though I am not particularly happy with their safety profile.  I have had 2 doses of Pfizer (no issues) and will likely have a booster pretty soon.  it's a no brainer- the benefits far outweigh the risks.

 

With children there is a micro risk of developing serious problems, just as there is also a micro risk associated with actually having the vaccine, so it seems quite pointless.  Maybe it doesn't make a lot of difference either way.  There is a prospect that my daughter will be offered the 'Sino' vaccine soon.  As I know this is a conventional vaccine which seems particularly safe, I won't object.

 

And what is going over your head, and a lot of others too, is that Omicron seems to be a markedly different proposition from its predecessors. 

 

This really is not the absolute you present.  Covid has simply not presented itself as a compelling risk to 5-10 year old children in the UK, where I come from.  Perhaps it's been represented differently in your country.

 

I'm a bit unhappy about you leaving confused/sad emojis, which I really feel should be reserved for other circumstances.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Well for me, as a 60 year old, there are compelling reasons to have the covid vaccine, even though I am not particularly happy with their safety profile.  I have had 2 doses of Pfizer (no issues) and will likely have a booster pretty soon.  it's a no brainer- the benefits far outweigh the risks.

 

With children there is a micro risk of developing serious problems, just as there is also a micro risk associated with actually having the vaccine, so it seems quite pointless.  Maybe it doesn't make a lot of difference either way.  There is a prospect that my daughter will be offered the 'Sino' vaccine soon.  As I know this is a conventional vaccine which seems particularly safe, I won't object.

 

And what is going over your head, and a lot of others too, is that Omicron seems to be a markedly different proposition from its predecessors. 

 

This really is not the absolute you present.  Covid has simply not presented itself as a compelling risk to 5-10 year old children in the UK, where I come from.  Perhaps it's been represented differently in your country.

 

I'm a bit unhappy about you leaving confused/sad emojis, which I really feel should be reserved for other circumstances.

When you make unqualified statements regarding ‘micro risk’ don’t be surprised if found so solicits emoji responses you don’t like.

 

Let’s go to a reputable source:

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-omicron-is-putting-more-kids-in-the-hospital/

 

 

[mommysboy]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

When you make unqualified statements regarding ‘micro risk’ don’t be surprised if found so solicits emoji responses you don’t like.

 

Let’s go to a reputable source:

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-omicron-is-putting-more-kids-in-the-hospital/

 

 

 

Micro risk- probably the wrong term as it's financial- very, very small risk, then.  

 

This is primarily about under 5's !

 

This is not a peer reviewed paper- at best it's observation, with pure supposition. 

 

I didn't say some children usually with co-morbidities won't get sick, I said not seriously sick.  And of course vulnerable children need to be jabbed.

 

I'd rather go with the British take, as it's proved more accurate and sober overall, but I respect your viewpoint- it's a pity you can't respect mine.

 

Sad, in all honesty.

 

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Again, it's not just about their health.  It's about the health of others around them. Like grandma and grandpa.  I'd rather not have to take this vaccine, but if we want this pandemic to end, more will need to be jabbed.  Children included.

'Again, it's not just about their health.  It's about the health of others around them. Like grandma and grandpa.'

 

Ok, fair point.  But 'grandma and grandpa' are vaccinated aren't they?

 

And if that's not good enough, then surely a question mark hangs over the worth of the vaccines!?  

 

(The vaccines are very effective for oldies imo- particularly AZ).

[Jeffr2]

3 hours ago, buick said:

the doctor part came in with regard to the 'no underlying conditions'.  beyond that, it is a personal choice.

Actually, it's not a personal choice, though some make it so.  We're in the middle of a global pandemic.  The best way out of this is vaccinations.  Sadly, some are hindering this process and helping to extend things.  And, cause more deaths.

 

I've not read from the OP where they said a doctor said the vaccine wasn't necessary.

[Jeffr2]

3 hours ago, buick said:

that is just a popular narrative that people have learned and said over and over again.  it sounds good.

 

recently there was a czech folk singer who refused to get vaccinated.  her son and husband were vaccinated and got infected.  she decided not to isolate from them and get infected on purpose (and died !!).  so the people that were close to her got infected, even though they were vaxxed.  vaccination doesn't always block infection and transmission.  sometimes yes, sometimes no. 

Yes, popular with medical and scientific experts.  Not popular with the anti vaxxers and covid deniers.  Same group points out that vaxxed people make others sick...true...but just a deflection.

[Jeffr2]

3 hours ago, mommysboy said:

I think medics are likely as confused on the subject as anyone else.

 

We're really looking at micro figures between the risks and benefits of being either vaccinated or unvaccinated in this age group, and then getting the whole issue out of proportion imo.  In reality it's a silly argument regarding mortality, but I would like to know the risks associated with more severe illness/long covid.

 

Also, Omicron is quite different from previous variants, being generally much milder.

 

Usually, it's possible to identify kids at most risk- namely those who tend to suffer more upper respiratory diseases.  It's a good idea to vaccinate them for all diseases, since it's usually a complex of disease and syndromes that is the biggest danger.

I don't know of any qualified doctor that's confused on this.  Pretty much unanimous in their support for the vaccine.  Again, it's not just about the child's well being.  It's about society's.  Something some tend to forget, or don't care about.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

 

Micro risk- probably the wrong term as it's financial- very, very small risk, then.  

 

This is primarily about under 5's !

 

This is not a peer reviewed paper- at best it's observation, with pure supposition. 

 

I didn't say some children usually with co-morbidities won't get sick, I said not seriously sick.  And of course vulnerable children need to be jabbed.

 

I'd rather go with the British take, as it's proved more accurate and sober overall, but I respect your viewpoint- it's a pity you can't respect mine.

 

Sad, in all honesty.

 

The OP’s inquiry relates to a seven year old.

 

I said let’s go to a reputable source, I never claimed to be linking a peer reviewed study.

 

You continually make reference to co-morbidities, without any back up (peer reviewed or not).

 

COVID has caused serious illness, hospitalization and death amongst otherwise fit and healthy adults, why would it not do likewise to otherwise fit and healthy children.

 

Yes, I agree, micro-risk is the wrong term.

[Jeffr2]

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/covid-19-vaccines-for-kids/art-20513332#if-children

If children don't frequently experience severe illness with COVID-19, why do they need a COVID-19 vaccine?

 

A COVID-19 vaccine can prevent your child from getting and spreading the virus that causes COVID-19.

 

If your child gets COVID-19, a COVID-19 vaccine could prevent him or her from becoming severely ill or experiencing short-term or long-term complications. Children with other health conditions, such as obesity, diabetes and asthma, might be at higher risk of serious illness with COVID-19.

 

Getting a COVID-19 vaccine can also help keep your child in school and more safely have playdates and participate in sports and other group activities.

[placeholder]

The OP posted this:

“Before a vaccine is ever given to people, FDA oversees extensive lab testing of the vaccine that can take several years to make sure it is safe and effective. After the lab, testing in people begins, and it can take several more years before the clinical studies are complete and the vaccine is licensed.”

This is simply a untrue statement as far as this covid vaccine is concerned."

 

 It is not an "untrue statment."

As has been noted earlier,  the explanation said "can take several years' " not "must take several years." The reason that vaccines usually take years to test is basically an economic one. Testing is expensive. Companies aren't going to commit to large scale testing before getting some positive indications for the prospective vaccine. In this case, because testing was subsidized, the vaccine companies were able to institute large scale testing immediately. So instead of accumulating data over a longer time period, it was able to be done over a short extent of time."

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by placeholder