Opinion: Don’t go down the path of vaccine mandates, rather show anti-vaxxers for who they really are

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, ncc1701d said:

It should be mandated because variants have greater chance of occurring by surviving longer in the unvaccinated. 
 

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/unvaccinated-people-are-increasing-the-chances-for-more-coronavirus-variants-heres-how

Happily in NZ it's LAW that one can NOT be forced to have any medication against one's will. Parents in the case of children.

They can make it inconvenient to not have a jab, but they can't forcibly inject anyone against their will. If they tried, they'd have a fight with the voters. There are large popular demonstrations against the existing mandates already, as is the case in other democratic countries.

 

Anyway, IMO sensible countries like the UK are abandoning all the mandates and imposed requirements without having mandated jabs.

[ukrules]

9 hours ago, berrec said:

 

The reasons behind the healthcare workers’ vaccine hesitancy were varied, with the most common reasons cited being how quickly the vaccine was developed, insufficient safety and effectiveness data, a disbelief that the vaccine would protect them from COVID-19 infection, and concerns about serious side effects.

There's another reason a lot of healthcare workers (or anyone in fact) are not too keen on being vaccinated - many of them have already had COVID at least once, some have had each and every variant.

 

They still need a vaccine? Really? What for?

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by ukrules

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

See above.

 

I repeat, I fully understand the need to generate income but I feel that actually including it in the text of a post is a step too far.

 

It is however, better than those awful pop ups we used to get that on some browsers, wouldn't go away.

I hated the pop ups, but personally I don't have a problem with the ones in the OP, which have been included for a long time, so long as they don't make them flash at me.

Not much different to having to put up with the ones on U Tube.

If it takes ads in the OP to have a free site I'll accept that, as no way I'd pay to use any forum.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, ukrules said:

There's another reason a lot of healthcare workers (or anyone in fact) are not too keen on being vaccinated - many of them have already had COVID at least once, some have had each and every variant.

 

They still need a vaccine? Really? What for?

 

I agree 100%, but some posters are sure to recite the same reasons they post for the umpteenth time whenever anyone posts anything saying a vaccination is not needed because of natural immunity.

[ukrules]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

I agree 100%, but some posters are sure to recite the same reasons they post for the umpteenth time whenever anyone posts anything saying a vaccination is not needed because of natural immunity.

Yes, I don't care what those who are wrong think.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, cocochubb said:

This is the part that puzzled me. I did not understand exactly what you were alluding to. And, I don't see any advertising here, not a one?

Did you not read the OP?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 hours ago, berrec said:

The reasons behind the healthcare workers’ vaccine hesitancy were varied, with the most common reasons cited being how quickly the vaccine was developed, insufficient safety and effectiveness data, a disbelief that the vaccine would protect them from COVID-19 infection, and concerns about serious side effects.

 

https://www.modernhealthcare.com/labor/why-are-some-healthcare-workers-refusing-covid-vaccines

 

The article you quoted from early 2021 also noted:

 

"Of the 11,387 people who responded, the overwhelming majority were in favor of getting the vaccine: just under 80% of the respondents said they had gotten a vaccine or were scheduled to receive one and 4.8% said they wanted to get it as soon as possible.

 

But there were still hundreds of healthcare workers who were vaccine hesitant — 954 individuals, or 8.4% of respondents, reported they would not be getting the vaccine for now. And 369 people, or 3.2% of survey participants, said they would “not ever” receive it.

...

Physicians were almost uniformly in favor of the vaccine. Other staff who don’t provide clinical care, such as food service workers and security personnel, had higher rates of vaccine hesitancy."

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

20 minutes ago, ukrules said:

There's another reason a lot of healthcare workers (or anyone in fact) are not too keen on being vaccinated - many of them have already had COVID at least once, some have had each and every variant.

 

They still need a vaccine? Really? What for?

 

 

The very good reason is that past infections with Delta or other prior COVID variants have very little protective effect against current Omicron infections.

 

The Omicron variant largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses according to the latest Imperial modelling.

17 December 2021

 

"This implies that the protection against reinfection by Omicron afforded by past infection may be as low as 19%."

 

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/232698/omicron-largely-evades-immunity-from-past/

 

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The very good reason is that past infections with Delta or other prior COVID variants have very little protective effect against current Omicron infections.

 

The Omicron variant largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses according to the latest Imperial modelling.

17 December 2021

 

"This implies that the protection against reinfection by Omicron afforded by past infection may be as low as 19%."

 

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/232698/omicron-largely-evades-immunity-from-past/

 

and from all the reports I've read, omicron is, for most that catch it, no worse than flu ( from which many died every year ).

If omicron had been the first version of covid, does anyone think the western world would have locked down as they did?

[ukrules]

14 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The very good reason is that past infections with Delta or other prior COVID variants have very little protective effect against current Omicron infections.

 

The Omicron variant largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses according to the latest Imperial modelling.

17 December 2021

 

"This implies that the protection against reinfection by Omicron afforded by past infection may be as low as 19%."

 

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/232698/omicron-largely-evades-immunity-from-past/

 

 

Indeed, they all contracted Omicron anyway, do you still think they need vaccinating?

 

Some of those infected with Omicron over the last 2 to 3 months also contracted Delta last year and an even smaller subset of them caught the original variant as well back in 2020.
 

Edited February 24, 2022 by ukrules

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and from all the reports I've read, omicron is, for most that catch it, no worse than flu ( from which many died every year ).

 

You read wrong:

 

 

 

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/covid-19-leading-cause-of-death-ranking/

 

And for the prior year in 2020:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TooMuchTime]

9 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Some of us don't really have the choice, not to boost i.e. unless with age and pre-existing conditions we want to make a choice of not getting the booster and perhaps departing life a little earlier that expected, e.g. higher risk of the inevitable.

 

All we can do is research and listen to unbiased professional opinions and also look at the science so as to make an informed decision.

 

Let's see what happens when age and health issues arise for you, i.e. if you will still be blowing your trumpet oh so loud.

 

 

I will.  Even my parents and grandparents realize they get to choose if they want the vaccine or not.  They do not care if others get it.

 

They also are in the belief that the world shouldn't shut down and cater to them.  They lived their life and realize the future generations shouldn't be shafted.

 

When I am old, I will never think the world should shut down so I can have a non guaranteed extra 10 years of life at the expense of my children/grandchildren.  Same if I had cancer or something and needed a lot of money for treatment.  I wouldn't tell my kids to sell everything so I can live a little longer.  Not selfish like many here.

 

Peoples decision to not get the vaccine doesn't mean you can't get it yourself.  Go ahead and get it, no one cares.  No one is forcing/coercing you to not get it.

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Doesn't stop you reading the various opinions posted on the internet and making up your own mind. That's what I did before deciding to refuse a pfizer jab. I had an alternative when it became available, though I'd prefer to have had Novovax, but it wasn't available when the IMO <deleted> anti unvaccinated penalizing measures came into force, so to have a life I took the option least likely to give me problems. So far it was a good decision.

Here in Thailand the ability to choose was harder... not impossible, but harder. I actually felt fortunate that I was offered Pfizer, preferring it over both AZ, and any of the Chinese offerings. Trying to get a grip on the situation had already made me decide the vaccination was by far a better choice than risks associated with getting earlier Covid versions and hoping, as an unvaccinated person, not to have serious symptoms or long term ones.

I too have not had any cause to regret that decision....

Many stuck it out for Moderna, even paying up front, usually a bad move in Thailand... and were rewarded with delays, months of unvaccinated risk and ultimately clamoring for alternatives. So I felt I got it right there too. 

Edited February 24, 2022 by jacko45k

[morrobay]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

You read wrong:

 

 

 

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/covid-19-leading-cause-of-death-ranking/

 

And for the prior year in 2020:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm

 

Sure while you can say covid was the leading cause of death ,but what ya all are "missing" is the high majority of those deaths were in people with comorbidities. They there for were very immunity compromised. Obese, hypertension, diabetes, cigarette smokers too. I'm surprised most of these people are still walking around.https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0213911121002880

[jacko45k]

Just now, morrobay said:

Sure while you can say covid was the leading cause of death ,but what ya all are "missing" is the high majority of those deaths were in people with comorbidities. They there for were very immunity compromised. Obese, hypertension, diabetes, cigarette smokers too. I'm surprised most of these people are still walking around.https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0213911121002880

And they would still be had Covid not brought about their early demise....  what is your point?

[Danderman123]

4 hours ago, ukrules said:

There's another reason a lot of healthcare workers (or anyone in fact) are not too keen on being vaccinated - many of them have already had COVID at least once, some have had each and every variant.

 

They still need a vaccine? Really? What for?

 

Typically, the lower in the food chain, the less likely a healthcare worker is to be vaccinated. Physicians are more likely to be vaccinated than someone with minimal training.

[Danderman123]

14 minutes ago, morrobay said:

Sure while you can say covid was the leading cause of death ,but what ya all are "missing" is the high majority of those deaths were in people with comorbidities. They there for were very immunity compromised. Obese, hypertension, diabetes, cigarette smokers too. I'm surprised most of these people are still walking around.https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0213911121002880

How come you anti-vaxxers never talk about co-morbidities when you talk about flu deaths?

[morrobay]

8 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

And they would still be had Covid not brought about their early demise....  what is your point?

The point is if these people were healthy with good immunity then covid would not have been a problem for them. Seems a rather self explanatory / comprehension 

[Danderman123]

On 2/25/2022 at 6:35 AM, FarFlungFalang said:

Because the vaxxtards are trying to claim it was the vax that saved the world and gave people their freedom back from the those that took it away and now they need someone to blame for the pandemic because we can't blame China.Still no proof where it came from, it must be the only disease that appeared without an origin being found or even looked for.Six million dead and Governments show no desire to find the cause and we're asked to trust these people?

How do you expect the government of Thailand to find the origin of Covid?

 

yeah, the guy who posted about finding the origin of Covid (below) died from Covid.

 

 

[Danderman123]

 

On 2/25/2022 at 7:13 AM, morrobay said:

The point is if these people were healthy with good immunity then covid would not have been a problem for them. Seems a rather self explanatory / comprehension 

Lots of people who had good immune systems are dead from Covid. Like the guy who posted about his immune system on Facebook.

 

[Danderman123]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and from all the reports I've read, omicron is, for most that catch it, no worse than flu ( from which many died every year ).

If omicron had been the first version of covid, does anyone think the western world would have locked down as they did?

The reports you have read are wrong.

 

Omicron is killing far more people than the flu. Besides, everyone who dies from the flu has a co-morbidity.

[morrobay]

6 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

How come you anti-vaxxers never talk about co-morbidities when you talk about flu deaths?

I'm not anti vax for the unhealthy . Sure comorbidities have just as much risk for flu ,covid and anything else you want to throw in. 

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by morrobay

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, morrobay said:

The point is if these people were healthy with good immunity then covid would not have been a problem for them. Seems a rather self explanatory / comprehension 

You know this how?

No, it would still have killed many of them, staying fully healthy when older is impossible. Ailments come uninvited.... you almost seem to be saying people deserved to die because they were old, or had health issues, and were undeserving of help from society because you determine their health issues were self inflicted... which is nonsense. 

 

[morrobay]

26 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Lots of people who had good immune systems are dead from Covid. Like the guy who posted about his immune system on Facebook.

And lots of fully vaccinated with comorbidities have died from covid. Who would you say are at most risk: healthy unvaccinated,for example someone with a BMI 71kg/1.81^2 =21.7, 0 neg , Or a vaccinated with comorbidities? https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-walensky-study-idUSL1N2TS0S2

[FarFlungFalang]

On 2/25/2022 at 7:13 AM, Danderman123 said:

How do you expect the government of Thailand to find the origin of Covid?

 

yeah, the guy who posted about finding the origin of Covid (below) died from Covid.

 

 

 

What makes you think I expect the Thai government to do anything about finding the origin of covid?If I did expect the Thai government to find the origin of covid it would be because the Thai government is the best in the world at everything, it would be a piece of cake for them but like the rest of the world they don't want to, like Jim Jordan says why is that?I'll tell you why they don't and that is they think it's not important.The governments in the world just don't think it's that important to find out why 6 million have died from covid so that they might stop it from happening again.Why don't the world's governments care about trying to stop something like this happening again?Why isn't the mainstream media asking these questions?Why aren't you asking these questions Danderman?Don't you care enough that 6 million people have died from covid to find where it originated so we can stop it happening again?Or would you rather blame the unvaxxed for the pandemic?

[userabcd]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Lots of people who had good immune systems are dead from Covid. Like the guy who posted about his immune system on Facebook.

Something in their immune system could not resist the virus. Did they have an immune system scientific checkup before catching the virus?

[Danderman123]

31 minutes ago, userabcd said:

Something in their immune system could not resist the virus. Did they have an immune system scientific checkup before catching the virus?

No such thing.

[Danderman123]

37 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

What makes you think I expect the Thai government to do anything about finding the origin of covid?If I did expect the Thai government to find the origin of covid it would be because the Thai government is the best in the world at everything, it would be a piece of cake for them but like the rest of the world they don't want to, like Jim Jordan says why is that?I'll tell you why they don't and that is they think it's not important.The governments in the world just don't think it's that important to find out why 6 million have died from covid so that they might stop it from happening again.Why don't the world's governments care about trying to stop something like this happening again?Why isn't the mainstream media asking these questions?Why aren't you asking these questions Danderman?Don't you care enough that 6 million people have died from covid to find where it originated so we can stop it happening again?Or would you rather blame the unvaxxed for the pandemic?

Tell me about the origins of the Spanish Flu that killed 50 million people. 

 

Oh, you're not interested in that? Never mind. 

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, cocochubb said:

 

Who is dead from covid? The guy in the photo died? How could he die from covid, he's vaccinated.

No, the guy who posted the photo, he's dead. 

[Danderman123]

2 hours ago, morrobay said:

And lots of fully vaccinated with comorbidities have died from covid. Who would you say are at most risk: healthy unvaccinated,for example someone with a BMI 71kg/1.81^2 =21.7, 0 neg , Or a vaccinated with comorbidities? https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-walensky-study-idUSL1N2TS0S2

In all cases, those with co-morbidities are safer if they vaccinated.