Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[rudi49jr]

14 minutes ago, BenStark said:

The Wagner boss is a personal friend of Putin

 

That is what the Western press makes of it.

The Wagner boss is a personal friend of Putin
 

Putin doesn’t have friends, personal or otherwise. Putin just uses people and when he has no more use for them he throws them away like used toiletpaper.

Edited June 24, 2023 by rudi49jr

[Bkk Brian]

I was hoping to wake this morning to news that Zelensky had asked NATO countries to send urgent supplies of popcorn to replenish dwindling stock, but alas it seems the mutiny by Wagner is all over.  Yevgeny Prigozhin had talks with Belarusian leader Alexander Lukashenko and he's heading to Belarus, all charges against him and his Wagner forces will be dropped.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-66006142

[BarraMarra]

Yes the Ex Hotdog seller has bottled it and has been shunted off to Belarus in " Exile " where I expect him to accidentally take a drop of Novichok or he will be silenced outside of Russia. Can he not be grabbed now and hauled before the Hague war comission?

[Pink Mist]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

I was hoping to wake this morning to news that Zelensky had asked NATO countries to send urgent supplies of popcorn to replenish dwindling stock, but alas it seems the mutiny by Wagner is all over.  Yevgeny Prigozhin had talks with Belarusian leader Alexander Lukashenko and he's heading to Belarus, all charges against him and his Wagner forces will be dropped.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-66006142

Really strange happenings.

[ThailandRyan]

17 hours ago, tgw said:

who would be conducting that false flag operation with what goal ?

So to me this looks like a False Flag operation. Something was moved or done during this cover run by Wagner. What it was will be known sometime in the near future.  If this truly had been real the Russian government would not be giving the head of Wagner and his men a free pass. They would be being tried for treason.

 

Why is he being truly sent to Belarus? Will he be running the operations of Russian troops from there into Ukraine.  The end game on this I am sure is being looked at by the G7. Somebody missed something which was happening with the distraction. My view of course.

Edited June 25, 2023 by ThailandRyan

[ballpoint]

The "press service" of the President of Belarus (or "self proclaimed" President of Belarus, as the Ukrainians call him) made this statement:

 

"Negotiations continued throughout the day. As a result, agreements were reached on the inadmissibility of unleashing a bloody massacre in Russia. Yevgeny Prigozhin accepted the proposal of Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko to stop the movement of armed men from the Wagner Group in Russia and take further steps to de-escalate the tension.

At the moment, there is an absolutely profitable and acceptable option on the table for resolving the situation, with security guarantees for Wagner PMC fighters."

 

Note the use of the words "absolutely profitable", maybe a translation slip, but I suspect it's absolutely true none the less.  Perhaps Putin has given Belarus to Prigozhin?  Or just maybe, Putin will launch one or more of the tactital nukes he sent there and blame Prigozhin for it?

 

Lukashenko claims Head of Wagner PMC accepted his offer to ''de-escalate'' | Ukrainska Pravda

 

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by ballpoint

[ballpoint]

From Twitter, and thus unconfirmed, but it looks to be valid.  Russians who were happy to see Wagner aren't so pleased to see the police come back...

 

[ballpoint]

Meanwhile, the head of Chechna, Ramzan Kadyrov, had this to say about Prigozhin on Telegram, while seemingly being confused about the gender of Russia.  Is it a motherland or a fatherland?  I'd say he is half right, but in a reverse way.  Prigozhin started his "coup" with the stated intention of righting wrongs, but in the end appears to have been bought out.  Of course, he could just as easily be talking about Putin.  Or himself.  You can't change sides when the only side you're on is your own.

 

“I thought some people could be trusted. That they sincerely love their Motherland as real patriots to the marrow of their bones. But it turned out that for the sake of personal ambitions, profit and because of arrogance, people can not give a damn about affection and love for the Fatherland, ”Kadyrov wrote.

 

Kadyrov commented on the situation with Prigozhin | West Observer

 

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by ballpoint

[Social Media]

 

[sammieuk1]

We are all mugs including me This whole thing looks like a plot to flush out 5th columnists dreamt up by a cook to make Putin look big again and make mobilization a breeze those who died in the process is irrelevant, we have been had by the Now known as the W*nker Stunt group ????

[onthedarkside]

Troll post removed

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, ballpoint said:

Note the use of the words "absolutely profitable", maybe a translation slip, but I suspect it's absolutely true none the less.  Perhaps Putin has given Belarus to Prigozhin?  Or just maybe, Putin will launch one or more of the tactital nukes he sent there and blame Prigozhin for it?

 

Lukashenko claims Head of Wagner PMC accepted his offer to ''de-escalate'' | Ukrainska Pravda

 

 

 

 

I suspect the cash found may also have something to do with it:

 

Yevgeny Prigozhin, a well-known figure associated with the Wagner Group, has officially confirmed reports of a significant cash discovery during raids conducted by the FSB security service in Russia.

The confirmation follows earlier media accounts regarding the seizure of a substantial amount of money from one of Prigozhin’s offices.

In an audio message shared on his Telegram channel, Prigozhin acknowledged that the money found during the raids does belong to the Wagner Group, stating that it was intended for compensation payments to deceased Wagner fighters and other related expenses.

https://bnn.network/breaking-news/war/prigozhin-confirms-cash-found-in-raids-belongs-to-wagner

[steven100]

source: https://www.yahoo.com/finance/video/russian-president-orders-military-act-082100373.html

 

 

[steven100]

source:https://www.yahoo.com/news/freaked-russia-shocked-military-coup-121945733.html

 

[ThailandRyan]

3 minutes ago, steven100 said:

source:https://www.yahoo.com/news/freaked-russia-shocked-military-coup-121945733.html

 

Yet within 24 hours the entire situation has changed.  Very weird 

[rabas]

2 hours ago, ballpoint said:

The "press service" of the President of Belarus (or "self proclaimed" President of Belarus, as the Ukrainians call him) made this statement:

 

"Negotiations continued throughout the day. As a result, agreements were reached on the inadmissibility of unleashing a bloody massacre in Russia. Yevgeny

accepted the proposal of Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko to stop the movement of armed men from the Wagner Group in Russia and take further steps to de-escalate the tension.

At the moment, there is an absolutely profitable and acceptable option on the table for resolving the situation, with security guarantees for Wagner PMC fighters."

 

Note the use of the words "absolutely profitable", maybe a translation slip, but I suspect it's absolutely true none the less.  Perhaps Putin has given Belarus to Prigozhin?  Or just maybe, Putin will launch one or more of the tactital nukes he sent there and blame Prigozhin for it?

 

Lukashenko claims Head of Wagner PMC accepted his offer to ''de-escalate'' | Ukrainska Pravda

 

As soon as Prigozhin began his revolt, there were calls for the Belarusian military and people to overthrow Lukashenko, who had (like rat) fled the country. So Putin discovered he still needed Prigozhin, even though Prigozhin was trying to destroy him. Russian friends ...

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by rabas

[LosLobo]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

Yet within 24 hours the entire situation has changed.  Very weird 

I agree very weird.

 

There are a lot of unanswered questions here.

 

I suggest that we only know what Putin wants us to know

 

Something it not quite right!

 

Who gave the order for Prigozhin's  Wagner Group to be attacked? 

 

Who is in charge Putin or Minister of Defence?

 

Why has Putin come out of this smelling like roses? Prigozhin absolved him of any blame saying he received bad information and the military are solely at fault.

 

Why has Prigozhin only been exiled, normally all those involved in this sort of kabuki would be summarily shot?

[tgw]

1 hour ago, LosLobo said:

I agree very weird.

 

There are a lot of unanswered questions here.

 

I suggest that we only know what Putin wants us to know

 

Something it not quite right!

 

Who gave the order for Prigozhin's  Wagner Group to be attacked? 

 

Who is in charge Putin or Minister of Defence?

 

Why has Putin come out of this smelling like roses? Prigozhin absolved him of any blame saying he received bad information and the military are solely at fault.

 

Why has Prigozhin only been exiled, normally all those involved in this sort of kabuki would be summarily shot?

What this shows is that the Russian structures of power and their level of control are a complete clown show.

 

Wagner's push to Moscow showed that many Russian security forces would not oppose such a move. Putin must have freaked out.
Prigozhin was careful to only insult the military leadership, not Putin himself, and Putin seeing how little support is left among his own troops must have decided to keep Prigozhin maybe not as a friend, but as a non-enemy which may in future be motivated to help Putin again.

 

Putin is weak, Moscow is weak. That's why Prigozhin gets to live to see another day. for now.

 

Maybe it has also something to do with the Chechens. The first news about them was that a huge Chechen column was heading for Rostov and Kadyrov talking angrily about traitors, etc.

And then the next news were about the first Chechens arriving in Rostov being "detained".

 

Rostov's population was showing some support for Prigozhin, so I'm not sure how Putin-loyal Chechens shooting Russians in Russia would have worked out as a mental image with Russian people.

If a match was needed to embraze everything, it could have been that.

 

I guess Putin realized he had no other choice than to defuse the situation.

I wonder if Prigozhin gets his wishes of Gerasimov and Shoigu being removed.

[BarraMarra]

Yes I smell a Rat. 1 minute Putin is calling Prigozhin is a traitor that must be severely punished along with other Traitors then next all charges are dropped and he is allowed to walk free

[steven100]

3 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

Yes I smell a Rat. 1 minute Putin is calling Prigozhin is a traitor that must be severely punished along with other Traitors then next all charges are dropped and he is allowed to walk free

well maybe Putin realized a coup against him is not the best outcome and he didn't want a war in Moscow,  so the next best thing is ' you can have Belarus '    and probably a truck load of cash.       just saying !

[Mavideol]

13 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

Yes I smell a Rat. 1 minute Putin is calling Prigozhin is a traitor that must be severely punished along with other Traitors then next all charges are dropped and he is allowed to walk free

am with you on that one.... too much smoke and no fire and the old saying "" there is no smoke without fire"" applies here as nothing was happening, all a charade, a distraction from more important issues... if I was Ukraine I would increase security at the border with Belarus, Putin had it all worked out and will re-start fighting from Belarus. How to explain that some of his vocal (no action) critics are jailed for 20-30 or longer years and this guy Prigozhin made a theatrical move and his punishment is to be send to Belarus.... smells fishy, am skeptical about all this BS

 

 

[Mavideol]

33 minutes ago, tgw said:

What this shows is that the Russian structures of power and their level of control are a complete clown show.

 

Wagner's push to Moscow showed that many Russian security forces would not oppose such a move. Putin must have freaked out.
Prigozhin was careful to only insult the military leadership, not Putin himself, and Putin seeing how little support is left among his own troops must have decided to keep Prigozhin maybe not as a friend, but as a non-enemy which may in future be motivated to help Putin again.

 

Putin is weak, Moscow is weak. That's why Prigozhin gets to live to see another day. for now.

 

Maybe it has also something to do with the Chechens. The first news about them was that a huge Chechen column was heading for Rostov and Kadyrov talking angrily about traitors, etc.

And then the next news were about the first Chechens arriving in Rostov being "detained".

 

Rostov's population was showing some support for Prigozhin, so I'm not sure how Putin-loyal Chechens shooting Russians in Russia would have worked out as a mental image with Russian people.

If a match was needed to embraze everything, it could have been that.

 

I guess Putin realized he had no other choice than to defuse the situation.

I wonder if Prigozhin gets his wishes of Gerasimov and Shoigu being removed.

if that is the case then Putin will look weak, nobody will be removed it was just a theatrical act, all well prepared

[Mavideol]

4 hours ago, steven100 said:

source: https://www.yahoo.com/finance/video/russian-president-orders-military-act-082100373.html

 

 

and yet he let them (Wagner) go to Belarus.... so what is it, act against them of open the motorway and let them go.... smells fishy, looks fishy, thus must be fishy, let's wait a couple days and we will see the Orcs starting/trying to move in from Belarus

[rabas]

36 minutes ago, tgw said:

What this shows is that the Russian structures of power and their level of control are a complete clown show.

There is a Russian saying: Those who have served in the military don't laugh in the circus.

 

[Mavideol]

something doesn't sound or feel right, any previous opposition, merely vocal opposition, people such a Navalny, were jailed for very long time but this guy  gets rewarded and send to Belarus and no charges whatsoever ... hummmm fishy

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-mercenary-chief-called-rebellion-051225518.html

 

Charges against him of mounting an armed rebellion will be dropped.

The government also said it would not prosecute Wagner fighters who took part, while those who did not join in were to be offered contracts by the Defense Ministry.

[BarraMarra]

Putin ordered his Copters to fire on the Wagner group a big Convoy with easy targets yet no 1 or anything was hit, an oil depot in Russia was fired on and seen to be ablaze, Rostok the head command control center for the war in Ukraine took without 1 shot fired, a ground to air missile luckily missing an attack chopper come on who's fooling who.

Edited June 25, 2023 by BarraMarra

[tgw]

11 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

Putin ordered his Copters to fire on the Wagner group a big Convoy with easy targets yet no 1 or anything was hit, an oil depot in Russia was fired on and seen to be ablaze, Rostok the head  command center took without 1 shot fired a ground to air missile luckily missing an attack chopper come on who's fooling who.

there are videos of fighting inside Rostov and explosion of vehicles on the highway. looks pretty much real.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by tgw

[tgw]

7 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

something doesn't sound or feel right, any previous opposition, merely vocal opposition, people such a Navalny, were jailed for very long time but this guy  gets rewarded and send to Belarus and no charges whatsoever ... hummmm fishy

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-mercenary-chief-called-rebellion-051225518.html

 

Charges against him of mounting an armed rebellion will be dropped.

The government also said it would not prosecute Wagner fighters who took part, while those who did not join in were to be offered contracts by the Defense Ministry.

Navalny doesn't have 25000 soldiers armed with artillery, tanks and air defense. Putin only understands power and violence and is responsive to it.

 

[BarraMarra]

I have not seen fighting in Rostok or burnt-out Vehicles on the main road to Moscow on all news outlets be it Sky the Beeb or Aljazeera.

Edited June 25, 2023 by BarraMarra

[LosLobo]

8 minutes ago, tgw said:

What this shows is that the Russian structures of power and their level of control are a complete clown show.

 

Wagner's push to Moscow showed that many Russian security forces would not oppose such a move. Putin must have freaked out.
Prigozhin was careful to only insult the military leadership, not Putin himself, and Putin seeing how little support is left among his own troops must have decided to keep Prigozhin maybe not as a friend, but as a non-enemy which may in future be motivated to help Putin again.

 

Putin is weak, Moscow is weak. That's why Prigozhin gets to live to see another day. for now.

 

Maybe it has also something to do with the Chechens. The first news about them was that a huge Chechen column was heading for Rostov and Kadyrov talking angrily about traitors, etc.

And then the next news were about the first Chechens arriving in Rostov being "detained".

 

Rostov's population was showing some support for Prigozhin, so I'm not sure how Putin-loyal Chechens shooting Russians in Russia would have worked out as a mental image with Russian people.

If a match was needed to embraze everything, it could have been that.

 

I guess Putin realized he had no other choice than to defuse the situation.

I wonder if Prigozhin gets his wishes of Gerasimov and Shoigu being removed.

Beside Prigozhin, there seems to be some difference of opinion between Putin, the Minister of Defence, and some of the Russian Security Services (ie the FSB, SVR, FSO and GRU).

 

The Security Services are all administratively independent of one another and all should eventually report to Putin but the GRU seems to mainly report to the Minister of Defence.

 

But the GRU forces seemed to have sided with Prigozhin here, so it is all very confusing, the whole structure is not marching to the same beat.

 

And even the FSO is at odds with the GRU.

 

I can foresee Putin may soon have to embark on a purge a la Stalin to remedy the situation and cement his control.