Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[tgw]

32 minutes ago, jvs said:

I assume this means Prigozhin is dead?

I'm not sure logic will get us anywhere with the Ruzzians

[onthedarkside]

Wagner head Prigozhin rejected offer to join Russia's army - Putin

 

 

Wagner mercenary group head Yevgeniy Prigozhin has rejected an offer to his fighters to serve as a unit in Russia's army, President Vladimir Putin says.

 

He told Kommersant newspaper that many group commanders had backed the plan to be led by a senior Wagner figure during recent talks in Moscow.

 

He said Prigozhin's reply was "the guys do not agree with this decision".

 

READ MORE

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66194549

 

[ThailandRyan]

Surely this is a good thing

 

Putin's Inner Circle 'Wants to Oust' Russian Leader From Power to End Ukraine War (msn.com)

 

Putin's Inner Circle 'Wants to Oust' Russian Leader From Power to End Ukraine War

Story by Connor Surmonte • 8h ago

 

Vladimir Putin’s inner circle is reportedly plotting to oust the Russian leader from power to end the ongoing war in Ukraine, RadarOnline.com has learned.

In a surprising development to come as Russia’s war against Ukraine quickly approaches the 17-month mark, sources familiar with Putin’s status indicated the 70-year-old leader is on shaky ground.

 

[LosLobo]

Also Erdogan’s has lost confidence in Putin since the coup,  obviously he feels Putin is in trouble too. I didn't realise that he also returned Putin's Ukrainian prisoners of war back to Ukraine.

 

The Sneaky Master Plan Behind Erdogan’s Sudden Split From Putin

 

'After months of carefully navigating a relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin during Russia’s war in Ukraine, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan seems to be calling it quits'.

 

'He also hosted Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in Istanbul and helped return Azovstal Ukrainian fighters captured by Russia to Ukraine, reneging on an agreement between Ankara and Moscow to hold the men until the war was over'.

 

The Master Plan Behind Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s Sudden Split From Vladimir Putin (thedailybeast.com)

Edited July 15, 2023 by LosLobo

[Rimmer]

1 hour ago, LosLobo said:

Also Erdogan’s has lost confidence in Putin since the coup,  obviously he feels Putin is in trouble too. I didn't realise that he also returned Putin's Ukrainian prisoners of war back to Ukraine.

 

The Sneaky Master Plan Behind Erdogan’s Sudden Split From Putin

 

'After months of carefully navigating a relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin during Russia’s war in Ukraine, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan seems to be calling it quits'.

 

'He also hosted Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in Istanbul and helped return Azovstal Ukrainian fighters captured by Russia to Ukraine, reneging on an agreement between Ankara and Moscow to hold the men until the war was over'.

 

The Master Plan Behind Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s Sudden Split From Vladimir Putin (thedailybeast.com)

 

I think this also had something to do with it:

 

Turkey looks set to receive the F-16 fighters that it’s long sought from the United States, as part of an apparent deal in which Ankara has finally conceded to Sweden’s entry into NATO. Turkey had requested a $20-billion deal for 40 new F-16s, as well as around 80 modernization kits for existing jets, since October 2021, but the deal had been held up by Congress amid worsening relations between Ankara and Washington.

 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/turkey-finally-looks-set-to-get-new-f-16s

[LosLobo]

Inside Putin's train.......

 

 

[Hummin]

On 3/7/2022 at 3:04 AM, Bkk Brian said:

Impossible for Putin to carry this on for years, the sanctions are to severe.

 

This from the leaked FSB agent:

"Our conditional deadline is June. Conditional because in June there will be no economy left in Russia – there will be nothing left."

Here we are one year and one month later! 

 

How long do you estimate the war to continue now? Do you see the end of it now?

[Jingthing]

15 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Here we are one year and one month later! 

 

How long do you estimate the war to continue now? Do you see the end of it now?

As far as Ukrainians go, as long as it takes. Their nation is under existential threat. If Ruzzia wins, they will go into guerilla warfare mode.

[Hummin]

18 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

As far as Ukrainians go, as long as it takes. Their nation is under existential threat. If Ruzzia wins, they will go into guerilla warfare mode.

It is a war that can not be won by either part! 

 

Just being realistic, and I predicted last year, the worst is still to come!

 

Still, nobody can be sure what the next move will be, or how it is going to end! 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Hummin

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

It is a war that can not be won by either part! 

 

Just being realistic, and I predicted last year, the worst is still to come!

 

Still, nobody can be sure what the next move will be, or how it is going to end! 

 

 

Kind of like all wars until they end somehow. 

Of course nobody knows how long this will last.

Ukraine could win if the west committed to helping them win.

They haven't gone that far yet. I also don't know if they ever will. 

[Wobblybob]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

It is a war that can not be won by either part! 

 

Just being realistic, and I predicted last year, the worst is still to come!

 

Still, nobody can be sure what the next move will be, or how it is going to end! 

 

 

It is Russias war by choice and it is Ukraines war by necessity, Ukraine cannot afford to lose this war. Russia could walk away tomorrow and all that would be damaged would be Putins ego, if Ukraine stops fighting they lose their country and many lives.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Wobblybob said:

It is Russias war by choice and it is Ukraines war by necessity, Ukraine cannot afford to lose this war. Russia could walk away tomorrow and all that would be damaged would be Putins ego, if Ukraine stops fighting they lose their country and many lives.

Losing the war will mean the end of Putin not just his ego. But he might craft some B.S. situation where he can claim victory to his own people. Losing Crimea would make that much harder though. Putin has every motivation to keep fighting, and Ukraine has every motivation to keep defending.

[ozimoron]

14 minutes ago, Hummin said:

It is a war that can not be won by either part! 

 

Just being realistic, and I predicted last year, the worst is still to come!

 

Still, nobody can be sure what the next move will be, or how it is going to end! 

 

 

Ukraine is engaging in a war of attrition of ammo and fuel. Ukraine has said it destroyed 6 ammo dumps in recent days. Russia has to maintain its troops in forward positions while it can't maintain the logistics. Russia's command is in disarray and troop morale and discipline is poor. Ukraine is just pressing until it sees a front line collapse and then it will pour in. This is an obvious plan with an obvious result. I believe the current plan is to wait until they have more cluster munitions to take out the heavier than expected Russian artillery and rout the troops dug in at the front.

[Hummin]

33 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Ukraine is engaging in a war of attrition of ammo and fuel. Ukraine has said it destroyed 6 ammo dumps in recent days. Russia has to maintain its troops in forward positions while it can't maintain the logistics. Russia's command is in disarray and troop morale and discipline is poor. Ukraine is just pressing until it sees a front line collapse and then it will pour in. This is an obvious plan with an obvious result. I believe the current plan is to wait until they have more cluster munitions to take out the heavier than expected Russian artillery and rout the troops dug in at the front.

Cluster bombs will not solve anything, and it will make Russia use them more widely as well than until now. 

 

At one point, my guess both have to hit the drawing board and make a deal! 

 

I do not dear to be to sure about anything when it comes to the outcome of this war. 

 

Have to remember there is an election coming up to, and that election can be a game changer. 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

Cluster bombs will not solve anything, and it will make Russia use them more widely as well than until now. 

 

At one point, my guess both have to hit the drawing board and make a deal! 

 

I do not dear to be to sure about anything when it comes to the outcome of this war. 

 

Have to remember there is an election coming up to, and that election can be a game changer. 

Russia already uses whatever it can lay its hands on without restraint, other than nuclear and chemical / biological weapons. It isn't going to increase it's use of such weapons just because  Ukraine uses them for the simple reason that Russia shows no restraint now.

 

I guess you're hoping that Trump wins that election so the "game changes"?

[Hummin]

12 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Russia already uses whatever it can lay its hands on without restraint, other than nuclear and chemical / biological weapons. It isn't going to increase it's use of such weapons just because  Ukraine uses them for the simple reason that Russia shows no restraint now.

 

I guess you're hoping that Trump wins that election so the "game changes"?

There is a conversation where you have to be realistic, and not ideological, where everyone who is trying to have a wider understanding of the reality and the conflict than just cheering for the obviously part who we all want to win with less losses of both civilian and soldiers, who at the same time being accused of having hidden agenda, which have been the accusing from the very beginning of this tread.

 

Thats why it is hard to continue contributing to such treads. 

 

Trump is not my man, neither an aging Biden. Miss Obama thow. 

 

As said earlier, it is a game of chess with more than two players with many who interest of the war continue as long as possible. But that is just conspiracy? 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Hummin

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

There is a conversation where you have to be realistic, and not ideological, where everyone who is trying to have a wider understanding of the reality than just cheering for the obviously part who we all want to win with less losses of both civilian and soldiers, being accused of having hidden agenda, which have been true from the very beginning of this tread.

 

Thats why it is hard to continue contributing to such treads. 

 

Trump is not my man, neither an aging Biden. Miss Obama thow. 

 

As said earlier, it is a game of chess with more than two players with many who interest of the war continue as long as possible. But that is just conspiracy? 

I'd like you to explain so even a simpleton like me can understand how the election (American?) might be a game changer. The reality is that Russia is edging towards collapse and the Ukrainian strategy is take advantage of that, presumably even until next spring because Russia's position will be worse while Ukraine will have cluster munitions, more long range munitions, more tanks and fighter aircraft by then.

[Hummin]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I'd like you to explain so even a simpleton like me can understand how the election (American?) might be a game changer. The reality is that Russia is edging towards collapse and the Ukrainian strategy is take advantage of that, presumably even until next spring because Russia's position will be worse while Ukraine will have cluster munitions, more long range munitions, more tanks and fighter aircraft by then.

The long standing support of Ukraine, will be a matter in the election, and I promise you, Trump will state the end of the support of Ukraine to win those those who is against spending trillions of usd on another war on the other side of the pond! 

 

The war is an ditch war going forward and backwords, and Russia on the brinc of collaps? Time will show, not so sure it is that close as we hope. 

 

The Russians have more support than you like to think, and have huge stored resources and being the second biggest oil and gas producer in the world. 

 

Un could stepped in, but who is the members of the security council board, and have veto right? Russia and China as part of the 5 permanent members! 

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, Hummin said:

The long standing support of Ukraine, will be a matter in the election, and I promise you, Trump will state the end of the support of Ukraine to win those those who is against spending trillions of usd on another war on the other side of the pond! 

 

The war is an ditch war going forward and backwords, and Russia on the brinc of collaps? Time will show, not so sure it is that close as we hope. 

 

The Russians have more support than you like to think, and have huge stored resources and being the second biggest oil and gas producer in the world. 

 

Un could stepped in, but who is the members of the security council board, and have veto right? Russia and China as part of the 5 permanent members! 

The Republicans in the senate voted with a super majority to compel Trump to send arms to Ukraine previously. Only the MAGA cultists and Russia loving fascists in the GOP want to stop sending weapons to Ukraine.

[Hummin]

13 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The Republicans in the senate voted with a super majority to compel Trump to send arms to Ukraine previously. Only the MAGA cultists and Russia loving fascists in the GOP want to stop sending weapons to Ukraine.

All we can do, is to pray Trump never have the chance to make a difference on the military aid.

 

However statistics show it can go voth ways the longer the conflict last.

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/15/more-than-four-in-ten-republicans-now-say-the-us-is-providing-too-much-aid-to-ukraine/

[Jingthing]

44 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The Republicans in the senate voted with a super majority to compel Trump to send arms to Ukraine previously. Only the MAGA cultists and Russia loving fascists in the GOP want to stop sending weapons to Ukraine.

Yes but the longer this lasts their forces grow. Also fake democrat RFK Jr  is also a Putin apologist or worse. 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Jingthing

[rabas]

Crimean bridge hit again!

 

Two explosions, some reports suggest at least one span collapsed. Lights are out along one section as seen at night.

 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by rabas

[LosLobo]

 

[Mavideol]

58 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

 

and Russians call it an act of sabotage 555..... they have been blowing up dams, schools, hospital, commercial malls and so forth but that's not considered acts of sabotage, on their definition it's called military operation... wish Ukraine could use their long range missiles and send some across the border to Orc's land, an eye for an eye

[Hummin]

12 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

and Russians call it an act of sabotage 555..... they have been blowing up dams, schools, hospital, commercial malls and so forth but that's not considered acts of sabotage, on their definition it's called military operation... wish Ukraine could use their long range missiles and send some across the border to Orc's land, an eye for an eye

Thats called propaganda, and thats how he can still for now  lead Russia, because enough of his own people believe in what he says and what he do. The consequenses for thinking different, is brutal.  Not so far away from any other countries who have gone to war against other countries. Well know tactics and retoric. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Hummin

[Mavideol]

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Thats called propaganda, and thats how he can still for now still lead Russia, because enough of his own people believe in what he says and what he do. Not so far away from any other countries who have gone to war against other countries. Well know tactics and retoric. 

saw the BBC World News at lunch time, the new rhetoric/propaganda tool is trying to the brain wash school kids

[Bkk Brian]

27 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

saw the BBC World News at lunch time, the new rhetoric/propaganda tool is trying to the brain wash school kids

They've been doing that to the kidnapped Ukrainian children for sometime unfortunately. The war criminal Putin deserves justice meted out to him.

[Tug]

On 7/16/2023 at 3:28 AM, Hummin said:

There is a conversation where you have to be realistic, and not ideological, where everyone who is trying to have a wider understanding of the reality and the conflict than just cheering for the obviously part who we all want to win with less losses of both civilian and soldiers, who at the same time being accused of having hidden agenda, which have been the accusing from the very beginning of this tread.

 

Thats why it is hard to continue contributing to such treads. 

 

Trump is not my man, neither an aging Biden. Miss Obama thow. 

 

As said earlier, it is a game of chess with more than two players with many who interest of the war continue as long as possible. But that is just conspiracy? 

It’s not a game of (chess) it a (game) of murder grief loss and expense to appease the ego of 1 man no more no less

[ballpoint]

Massive fire and multiple explosions at a Russian army base in Crimea. 

Also reports that Russia is directly attacking Odesa, targeting grain shipping facilities on the waterfront following Ukraine's comments that it would continue with grain shipments despite Russia unilaterally ending the deal.  Once again showing their true colours.

 

 

[onthedarkside]

Britain’s Spy Master Says Putin Cut Deal With Wagner Mercenary Chief

 

The head of Britain’s intelligence agency, MI6, said on Wednesday that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia had “cut a deal” with Yevgeny V. Prigozhin, the founder of the Wagner mercenary group, during Mr. Prigozhin’s failed rebellion last month.

The comments from Richard Moore, the head of MI6, in a rare speech in Prague at an event hosted by Politico, offer insights from a Western intelligence official into the stunning but short-lived revolt by Mr. Prigozhin last month.

The Wagner leader staged a mutiny against Russia’s military last month, which saw his mercenary forces marching toward the capital before abruptly halting.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/19/world/europe/mi6-moore-putin-wagner.html

 

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