Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Wobblybob]

2 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

No no no TBL. If there’s a link, then it MUST be true.

No point in providing links when you can make up your own facts!

[GroveHillWanderer]

18 hours ago, AreYouGerman said:

It also boggles my mind that people still spreading the lie about Russia wanting to take over the entire Ukraine and/or genocide them while their real demands are even publicly on a Wikipedia page. And then, even more hilarious, they claim Russia wants to attack EU and NATO countries. For what specific goal. Absolute non-sense.

Not sure what you're talking about - I don't see any demands (real or otherwise) on that Wikipedia page.

 

All it has is descriptions of the positions taken in previous peace talks. 

 

However, Dmitry Medvedev, in March of this year, proposed a new Russian peace plan.

 

As mentioned in the article below, it calls for:

 

Quote

the complete and unconditional surrender of Ukraine; the “denazification” (that is, the purge) of all of its entire government; financial compensation to the Kremlin for a war that it itself started; and a wholesale absorption of Ukraine into the Russian Federation.

 

What Moscow truly wants from Kyiv: Total submission

[Hummin]

2 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Actually, I don’t care about making Putin look good or whether he is good or bad. What I believe (and you can have your own beliefs as well, that’s fine with me) is that this conflict could have been easily avoided but was instigated by America to weaken Russia. It is well documented that NATO expansion eastwards was a red line for Russia and previous European leaders had been against it. But as America holds sway in NATO, the expansion continued right up to the borders of Russia. 
 

You surely can’t be so blind as to see that Russia won’t consider it a threat. How do you think any country would react if an adversary were to station troops and weapons next to their borders? Try not to be hypocritical when answering, although I doubt you would as it would show your narrative to be flawed.

Were you in Russia to see how the sanctions are affecting normal Russian people? Or are you relying on western media reports? Surely you are not that naive and gullible to accept everything you read as the gospel truth?

 

Let’s revisit this claim that Russia will run out of money by the end of this summer. I doubt it very much, especially coming from you as you don’t even seem to know what proper nouns are, much less world economics.

One good thing about Putin, if you can say it is a positive thing thats up to each and one to decide.

 

He have awakening up all the allies from the glasnost sleep, where everyone thought the whole world could be friends, and we all would manage to live side by side and continue to fight poverty and share all resources equally at the same time manage to grow a fear economy for each and one world wide! 

 

The world doesnt function that way, and finally each and one Nato member striving to reach 2% mark of GDP for their defense spending.

 

Still a long way for Sweeden and Finland, both training and equipment, but it is a start. 

 

So I have to give Trump right in one thing, even it was for him  just business, to push hard on Nato members, to implementing Us made weapon systems and technology. 

 

Empires falls because of internal conflicts, and Putin maybe saves us from internal destruction by showing himselves as the true enemy he is.

 

 

 

Edited May 4 by Hummin

[Hummin]

11 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

 

As mentioned in the article below, it calls for:

 

 

What Moscow truly wants from Kyiv: Total submission

Historically it is a understandable tactical and important move for Russia, meaning Ukraine have a strategic important role and also important resources for their stability and growt. 

 

Loosing the control of the neighborhoods is a defeat for russias position in the world. 

[Mavideol]

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

 

It is reported in western msm therefore it’s the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I get it. How foolish some of us were to think that only the west have the good guys and all Russians, Chinese, Iranians, North Koreans are bad and evil.

it happened that I lived 9for quite some time) in a couple of countries you mentioned, trust me, their reputation is not based on he said she said, 80-90% it's correct, thus the majority wins as +/- 10-20% it's really a minority, to me, as an outsider it appears that you have difficulty accepting the reality thus your constant deflections

Edited May 4 by Mavideol

[Seppius]

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

 

It is reported in western msm therefore it’s the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I get it. How foolish some of us were to think that only the west have the good guys and all Russians, Chinese, Iranians, North Koreans are bad and evil.

 

So you trust the 4 nations you mentioned? all of whom the only media is state run, that's laughable.

 

Do you listen to the propagandist on Russian state TV every night and soak it all up

[jas007]

On 5/2/2024 at 9:59 PM, Yellowtail said:

Does anyone understand why Putin invaded Ukraine during the Obama-Biden administration, and during the Biden-Harris administration, but did not invade during the Trump-Pence administration?

 

It seems like it would have been a lot easier if Putin had his puppet Trump in the Whitehouse. 

 

Anyone? 

 Off the top of my head, I think I remember seeing or reading about an interview with Trump about what he said to Putin about Ukraine. Trump told Putin that if Russia invaded Ukraine, the US would bomb the Kremlin. When I heard that, I found it hard o believe, but maybe Trump really did say that, and maybe Putin didn’t want to FAFO.

[AreYouGerman]

9 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

 

Strange how is it, for one side, everything that Russia says, true or false, is propaganda whereas everything their side says is the undisputed truth. 
 

Biden tripped going upstairs- Russian propaganda 

Putin does not have cancer - Russian propaganda

Bolshoi Ballet Academy is one of the oldest and most prestigious ballet academies in the world - Russian propaganda

Russian are fighting with shovels invented in the 19th century- absolute truth.

It reminds me of a cult, like EV-angelists

 

If the situation wasn’t so tragic for Ukraine, it would be funny.

 

I think the main reason is that boomers have been indoctrinated their entire life with the Cold War propaganda. They just can't get away from it even if you bombard them with facts. It's like a reflex and I forgive them for it but it's also great that the newer generations (minus females) have a more diverse view on those things.

 

Edited May 4 by AreYouGerman

[jvs]

15 minutes ago, AreYouGerman said:

 

I think the main reason is that boomers have been indoctrinated their entire life with the Cold War propaganda. They just can't get away from it even if you bombard them with facts. It's like a reflex and I forgive them for it but it's also great that the newer generations (minus females) have a more diverse view on those things.

 

What a very arrogant post,also to women!

When you forget or ignore what happened in the past it is easy to repeat it.

[AreYouGerman]

Just now, jvs said:

What a very arrogant post,also to women!

When you forget or ignore what happened in the past it is easy to repeat it.

 

"While broad cross-sections of Americans primarily see Russia as the United States’ enemy, those ages 65 and older are especially likely to hold this view, with 83% saying so. And while a majority of the youngest adults polled agree that Russia is an enemy (59%), they are far more likely than older adults to label Russia as a competitor."

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/04/06/seven-in-ten-americans-now-see-russia-as-an-enemy/

 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

24 minutes ago, AreYouGerman said:

 

"While broad cross-sections of Americans primarily see Russia as the United States’ enemy, those ages 65 and older are especially likely to hold this view, with 83% saying so. And while a majority of the youngest adults polled agree that Russia is an enemy (59%), they are far more likely than older adults to label Russia as a competitor."

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/04/06/seven-in-ten-americans-now-see-russia-as-an-enemy/

 

 

 

 

[Danderman123]

On 5/2/2024 at 9:59 PM, Yellowtail said:

Does anyone understand why Putin invaded Ukraine during the Obama-Biden administration, and during the Biden-Harris administration, but did not invade during the Trump-Pence administration?

 

It seems like it would have been a lot easier if Putin had his puppet Trump in the Whitehouse. 

 

Anyone? 

Well, there was COVID, there were readiness issues on the Russian side, and also, if Russia invaded and Trump did nothing, Trump might lose the 2020 election.

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Well, there was COVID, there were readiness issues on the Russian side, and also, if Russia invaded and Trump did nothing, Trump might lose the 2020 election.

He had two years before covid, and I thought with Putin's help, Trump was going to be installed as a dictator, no? 

 

 

[Danderman123]

6 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

He had two years before covid, and I thought with Putin's help, Trump was going to be installed as a dictator, no? 

 

 

Trump worried about re-election the first time around.

[tgw]

13 hours ago, jas007 said:

 Off the top of my head, I think I remember seeing or reading about an interview with Trump about what he said to Putin about Ukraine. Trump told Putin that if Russia invaded Ukraine, the US would bomb the Kremlin. When I heard that, I found it hard o believe, but maybe Trump really did say that, and maybe Putin didn’t want to FAFO.

At that moment in time I' pretty sure Putin already knew who Trump was.

[Gweiloman]

22 hours ago, Hummin said:

Im aware of both sides propaganda.

 

Do you claim Putin have almost 88% backing from his own people in the election? Only tyrans and dicttors have such numbers

 

 

I don’t claim it, it’s merely what was reported. True or not, who can say. However, by virtue of your last sentence, you have painted yourself into a corner. In your view, no leader can have such popularity unless they are either a dictator or a tyrant. In the political system that I presume you are used to, that is western democracy with elections every few years, either 2 party state like the US or multi parties like Germany, it is practically mathematically impossible to gain much more than 60% popularity for obvious reasons. The electorate’s political mindset fundamentally does not allow them to deem the opposition’s leader as popular.

 

I do not know but I wonder what Mandela’s popularity rating was. Singapore on the surface is a democratic country and you can claim that LKY was a tyrant and/or dictator but he regularly polled above 90%.If, for the sake or this argument we consider Tibet as a sovereign nation, would you dispute that the Dalam Lama would have greater than 88% popularity among Tibetans? How about when it comes to monarchs? I don’t think anybody would dispute that a certain ex-monarch was popular with almost 100% of the population. Tyrant and/or dictator?
 

Finally, and this is naturally controversial and contentious because most westerners are opposed to it due to their education and govt propaganda, China is a one party state. If 88% of the population is happy with their government, by extension, this means they are happy with the leader, Polls by IPSOS or Harvard, I forget which, has found China to be the “happiest” country in the world with over 90% satisfaction rating. I can already hear the words rubbish, nonsense, gibberish in some posters heads. What some westerners don’t realise is that for many Asians, democracy, the right to vote, freedom of speech, all the intangibles that the western world cares so much about that they are willing to kill others for it, many Asians don’t really care. What they care about most is to have a good living and the opportunities to do so and this is something that the likes of LKY and XJP has provided them.

 

Thank you for reading and hopefully we can have an intelligent debate without the usual posters who only insults, demands for links and are full of themselves.

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

I don’t claim it, it’s merely what was reported. True or not, who can say. However, by virtue of your last sentence, you have painted yourself into a corner. In your view, no leader can have such popularity unless they are either a dictator or a tyrant. In the political system that I presume you are used to, that is western democracy with elections every few years, either 2 party state like the US or multi parties like Germany, it is practically mathematically impossible to gain much more than 60% popularity for obvious reasons. The electorate’s political mindset fundamentally does not allow them to deem the opposition’s leader as popular.

 

I do not know but I wonder what Mandela’s popularity rating was. Singapore on the surface is a democratic country and you can claim that LKY was a tyrant and/or dictator but he regularly polled above 90%.If, for the sake or this argument we consider Tibet as a sovereign nation, would you dispute that the Dalam Lama would have greater than 88% popularity among Tibetans? How about when it comes to monarchs? I don’t think anybody would dispute that a certain ex-monarch was popular with almost 100% of the population. Tyrant and/or dictator?
 

Finally, and this is naturally controversial and contentious because most westerners are opposed to it due to their education and govt propaganda, China is a one party state. If 88% of the population is happy with their government, by extension, this means they are happy with the leader, Polls by IPSOS or Harvard, I forget which, has found China to be the “happiest” country in the world with over 90% satisfaction rating. I can already hear the words rubbish, nonsense, gibberish in some posters heads. What some westerners don’t realise is that for many Asians, democracy, the right to vote, freedom of speech, all the intangibles that the western world cares so much about that they are willing to kill others for it, many Asians don’t really care. What they care about most is to have a good living and the opportunities to do so and this is something that the likes of LKY and XJP has provided them.

 

Thank you for reading and hopefully we can have an intelligent debate without the usual posters who only insults, demands for links and are full of themselves.

Thank you for reading and hopefully we can have an intelligent debate without the usual posters who only insults, demands for links and are full of themselves.

 

You could also start your own topic, this is not it. It is for daily updates on the illegal invasion of Ukraine by Russia

[stevenl]

14 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

I don’t claim it, it’s merely what was reported. True or not, who can say.

Any thinking person can say: not true.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Seppius said:

 

So you trust the 4 nations you mentioned? all of whom the only media is state run, that's laughable.

 

Do you listen to the propagandist on Russian state TV every night and soak it all up

Seems that his post went right over your head. Do you believe every person in those countries is evil?

[thaibeachlovers]

36 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Singapore on the surface is a democratic country and you can claim that LKY was a tyrant and/or dictator but he regularly polled above 90%.

I lived in Singapore in the 70s and it was the most superior country I ever lived in. IMO he was a benevolent dictator, but he took a chaotic country with race riots and transformed it into a country that was great to live in. IMO he was a man devoid of BS, which is an affliction of western politicians- I don't believe much that they say any more.

If he had a failing it was that he was too puritanical, and the country suffered for that eventually.

I have not been back in decades, so I can't say how it is since he retired. Seems too posh for my liking though. Certainly too expensive.

People need some alternative outlets IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Well, there was COVID, there were readiness issues on the Russian side, and also, if Russia invaded and Trump did nothing, Trump might lose the 2020 election.

DUH!

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, AreYouGerman said:

 

I think the main reason is that boomers have been indoctrinated their entire life with the Cold War propaganda. They just can't get away from it even if you bombard them with facts. It's like a reflex and I forgive them for it but it's also great that the newer generations (minus females) have a more diverse view on those things.

 

 

I'm a boomer and the amount of times I thought about the Cold War- ZERO. Amount of indoctrination about it- ZERO.

 

Next.

[jvs]

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

I don’t claim it, it’s merely what was reported. True or not, who can say. However, by virtue of your last sentence, you have painted yourself into a corner. In your view, no leader can have such popularity unless they are either a dictator or a tyrant. In the political system that I presume you are used to, that is western democracy with elections every few years, either 2 party state like the US or multi parties like Germany, it is practically mathematically impossible to gain much more than 60% popularity for obvious reasons. The electorate’s political mindset fundamentally does not allow them to deem the opposition’s leader as popular.

 

I do not know but I wonder what Mandela’s popularity rating was. Singapore on the surface is a democratic country and you can claim that LKY was a tyrant and/or dictator but he regularly polled above 90%.If, for the sake or this argument we consider Tibet as a sovereign nation, would you dispute that the Dalam Lama would have greater than 88% popularity among Tibetans? How about when it comes to monarchs? I don’t think anybody would dispute that a certain ex-monarch was popular with almost 100% of the population. Tyrant and/or dictator?
 

Finally, and this is naturally controversial and contentious because most westerners are opposed to it due to their education and govt propaganda, China is a one party state. If 88% of the population is happy with their government, by extension, this means they are happy with the leader, Polls by IPSOS or Harvard, I forget which, has found China to be the “happiest” country in the world with over 90% satisfaction rating. I can already hear the words rubbish, nonsense, gibberish in some posters heads. What some westerners don’t realise is that for many Asians, democracy, the right to vote, freedom of speech, all the intangibles that the western world cares so much about that they are willing to kill others for it, many Asians don’t really care. What they care about most is to have a good living and the opportunities to do so and this is something that the likes of LKY and XJP has provided them.

 

Thank you for reading and hopefully we can have an intelligent debate without the usual posters who only insults, demands for links and are full of themselves.

You lost all credibility from my side!

You are full of opinions and basically insult people but you conveniently forget to answer some posts .

Did i notice a spelling mistake?

Don't worry it is ok.

[Gweiloman]

17 hours ago, jvs said:

Ok a lot of things here.

First of all there is no need to make me look stupid for making spelling mistakes here.

English is not my first language but i can converse quite fluently in 5 languages,how many languages do you speak?

The whole meaning of NATO is very well documented and published and it is very clear that NATO is not going to expand by force,never!

A big NATO force for instance in Poland but in between Poland and Russia there is the Ukraine.

So by attacking the Ukraine the Russian themselves are moving closer to the NATO border.

Remember Sweden and Finland?They wanted to stay neutral but the attack by Russia on the Ukraine made them change their minds.That is also on Putin himself.He just created another 1000 km of direct border with NATO.

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/10/1071766987/u-s-russia-dicuss-ukraine-can-diplomacy-help-avoid-a-military-confrontation

Here is a bit more info on it but i am well aware you don't like links.

Right up to the day of the attack Russia said they would not attack the Ukraine.

Reality is different.

Our views on this are different and that is fine with me , opportunity for debate

I am not relying solely on Western media at all.I watched many videos from inside Russia by normal everyday Russian people and those are the ones saying things are getting really bad.

Go listen to the opinions of the people there regarding the recent flooding.

So i think i have answered most of your questions,please be so kind to respond to what we talked about before?Remember about the gas?Natural gas prices are going down all over the world.Yes, the west has been very stupid to rely on Russian gas for their heating.Putin was going to use this as leverage to influence the West,it backfired on him big time!

Thanks to Putin the switch to other resources is now being sped up and many(new) houses in Europe are no longer connected to the gas net.

No link but it is easily found if you look for it.

I am not so gullible and naive to believe everything i read,are you?

I do a lot of searching online on both sides of the line.

Yes we will see if Russia will run out of money.

You last sentence just shows a lot about you.

As for making you look stupid, I’m just going with the flow here. I noticed a lot of posts that insults the other poster gets a lot of likes and thumbs up and trophies whereas I seem to be getting only confused looks. Not sure if my posts are confusing or whether some people are easily confused.

 

I speak 7 languages. What’s your point?

The whole meaning of NATO is very well documented and published and it is very clear that NATO is not going to expand by force,never!

NATO was set up as a defensive alliance against possible aggression by the Soviet Union. With the demise of the latter, the raison d’etre for NATO ceased to exist. As a defensive alliance, what were they doing in Yugoslavia? Why were they in Syria? Why are they thinking of opening an office in Japan? Do they not know what the acronym stands for? I don’t know what you mean by “not going to expand by force, never”. They should never have expanded, period.

So by attacking the Ukraine the Russian themselves are moving closer to the NATO border.

Russia went into Ukraine to stop NATO coming closer to their borders. That shouldn’t be too difficult to understand.

 

 

Yes, the west has been very stupid to rely on Russian gas for their heating.Putin was going to use this as leverage to influence the West,it backfired on him big time!

The west, in particular Germany relied on cheap Russian energy. This helped their industries tremendously so much so that they wanted to double their supply via NS2. It was America that didn’t like this. It would make Russia stronger, probably made Europe more dependent upon Russian cheap energy. America, being the worlds’ bully, couldn’t accept this, going so far as to say that they will stop it (interference in other sovereign nation’s internal affairs, as always). Miraculously, the pipelines exploded, stopping the supply of gas. As a result, Europeans now have to pay more for their energy requirements, major German carmakers and other industries are pulling out of Germany into, surprise, surprise, America. Blind is he that does not want to see. It hasn’t backfired on Russia but on Europe. The west could have relied on cheap Russian energy for many many years without interruption but for that hegemony across the ocean.

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Trump worried about re-election the first time around.

Why would a dictator be worried about re-election? 

[Gweiloman]

18 hours ago, Mavideol said:

it happened that I lived 9for quite some time) in a couple of countries you mentioned, trust me, their reputation is not based on he said she said, 80-90% it's correct, thus the majority wins as +/- 10-20% it's really a minority, to me, as an outsider it appears that you have difficulty accepting the reality thus your constant deflections

Sorry, but I have no idea what you are trying to say.

 

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

Any thinking person can say: not true.

Which obviously rules you out.

[Bkk Brian]

What's pretty clear, were it not for Iran and North Korea boosting Russia's stocks of drones and ballistic missiles, which also happens to be UN violations. They would have run out by now.

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, jvs said:

You lost all credibility from my side!

You are full of opinions and basically insult people but you conveniently forget to answer some posts .

Did i notice a spelling mistake?

Don't worry it is ok.

Sad to hear that you don’t consider me credible but it’s ok, I’m sure I will still be able to sleep at night.

 

All of us, as thinking individuals (except for a couple), have our opinions. They may or may not be supported by facts. Just because a claim is made by a journalist or an unnamed individual on the condition of anonymity etc etc doesn’t make it a fact. 
 

I answer posts that I feel are substantive. I don’t normally bother with boring matters.

Yes, I spotted the spelling mistake. Of course it should have been the Dalai Lama instead of Dalam Lama. Dalam means inside in the Indonesian and Malay languages, one of the 7 that I speak. Spelling mistakes can happen to the best of us. Not knowing what proper nouns are is not a mistake.

 

Peace.

 

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Don’t forget, according to Tony Blinkered, China too.
 

It’s also pretty clear that were it not for aid and weapons from NATO, the conflict would have been over by now.

 

Even Europe’s top diplomat says so, what I have been saying for over 2 years, in the early pages of this thread, before I kept getting suspended for having differing views.

 

At a lecture at the University of Oxford on Friday, EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell said that the conflict in Ukraine could as quickly as "a couple of weeks" without Western military aid to Kiev. 

"The Ukrainian existence depends on us, I know how to finish the war in Ukraine. I can finish the war in Ukraine in a couple of weeks just by cutting the supply. If I cut the supply of arms to Ukraine, Ukraine cannot resist they will have to surrender and the war will finish," Borrell said.

 

Oh, and you are going to love this as it will feed your obsession. I actually have a link. Yes!1 A link. Here it is… drum roll please…

https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/without-western-aid--ukraine-war-could-end-in-only-two-weeks#:~:text="The Ukrainian existence depends on,will finish%2C" Borrell said.

 

 

Well obviously we all know the aid from Nato and other countries has been vital to Ukraine from the beginning. The point being however those weapons provded to Ukraine have been legal and not UN violations

[Yellowtail]

16 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

What's pretty clear, were it not for Iran and North Korea boosting Russia's stocks of drones and ballistic missiles, which also happens to be UN violations. They would have run out by now.

And China